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Rebuilding this team

steelbtexan said:
They need to open up cap space and try to get as many draft picks as possible.

For instance if they could get a 3rd for WFV or a 4th for Duke in their walk yrs would you do it? Then trading Watt say for a 2nd or 3rd would open up 17.5 mil in cap space. They aren't going to be able to trade Mckinney or DJ but that would save them roughly 16.5 Cut N.Martin 6 mil you get the point, that's over 50 mil in cap space and would go along way to spending in fa to rebuild the defense. Any draft picks you get is the desert. Holding onto guys would be a mistake particularly high salary guys.
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The concern I have is cap space does not bring in players due to reduced 2020 alleged cap. It doesn't allow us to sign a FA. As I think player to step into JJs spot is on team I would love highest pick we can get even if it were Jets rather than GB. I like Watt but prefer we get benefit not him. Honor him and his checks didn't bounce so get best we can where we can.

I think this might be weak off season to sign FAs so Fuller could get us a 3rd round comp. So trade should be for higher than that.
So yes to 3rd for WF and a 4th for whichever Duke you have in mind which would be amazing. A two for JJ with me rooting against GB remainder of season to move it higher.

Can we get a third for Howard? What happened to him and Scharpie is something I'd like to know.
 
steelbtexan said:
They need to open up cap space and try to get as many draft picks as possible.

For instance if they could get a 3rd for WFV or a 4th for Duke in their walk yrs would you do it? Then trading Watt say for a 2nd or 3rd would open up 17.5 mil in cap space. They aren't going to be able to trade Mckinney or DJ but that would save them roughly 16.5 Cut N.Martin 6 mil you get the point, that's over 50 mil in cap space and would go along way to spending in fa to rebuild the defense. Any draft picks you get is the desert. Holding onto guys would be a mistake particularly high salary guys.
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I think the Texans could get the attention of Green Bay by offering Watt and Fuller for RB- AJ Dillon and a 2021 RD2 and maybe 2022 RD4. I do believe Dillon could be a beast with a some time on the field. I'd love to have him this season as the 1st and 2nd down back b/c of his size: 6'-0" / 250 lbs / Dude is cut muscle / 4.53-40 / 23 reps 225 lbs. He's a no joke downhill runner who can make a cut a go. A RB like this could certainly soften up defenses before trotting David Johnson onto the field as a 3rd down back.....his true calling. This would make Duke Johnson available for trade and maybe a RD4 return.
 
badboy said:
The concern I have is cap space does not bring in players due to reduced 2020 alleged cap. It doesn't allow us to sign a FA. As I think player to step into JJs spot is on team I would love highest pick we can get even if it were Jets rather than GB. I like Watt but prefer we get benefit not him. Honor him and his checks didn't bounce so get best we can where we can.

I think this might be weak off season to sign FAs so Fuller could get us a 3rd round comp. So trade should be for higher than that.
So yes to 3rd for WF and a 4th for whichever Duke you have in mind which would be amazing. A two for JJ with me rooting against GB remainder of season to move it higher.

Can we get a third for Howard? What happened to him and Scharpie is something I'd like to know.
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Fairly certain I wouldn't ship out Howard or Scharping until the team has a new (man I hope) an improved OL Coach for the 2021 season. There's been zero talent evaluator on this team that could see where these guys may fit best on the OL. OB's desire to have Devlin move these guys all over the OL instead of them learning their primary position has been a detriment to their development.

Me....I'd trade Nick Martin to the Cowboys tomorrow and they'd probably entertain that call based on their OL injuries. Texans might get a RD4 for that trade.......and I'll take it!!!!
 
steelbtexan said:
They need to open up cap space and try to get as many draft picks as possible.

For instance if they could get a 3rd for WFV or a 4th for Duke in their walk yrs would you do it? Then trading Watt say for a 2nd or 3rd would open up 17.5 mil in cap space. They aren't going to be able to trade Mckinney or DJ but that would save them roughly 16.5 Cut N.Martin 6 mil you get the point, that's over 50 mil in cap space and would go along way to spending in fa to rebuild the defense. Any draft picks you get is the desert. Holding onto guys would be a mistake particularly high salary guys.
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I think we should be calling up Pittsburg right now. They just lost Bush for the season. They’re undefeated so they might overpay to improve their shot at winning it all this year. Offer McKinney and Watt And see what they will give up.
 
mussop said:
I think we should be calling up Pittsburg right now. They just lost Bush for the season. They’re undefeated so they might overpay to improve their shot at winning it all this year. Offer McKinney and Watt And see what they will give up.
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How does McKinney help them?
Is he off the IR list?
 
mussop said:
I think we should be calling up Pittsburg right now. They just lost Bush for the season. They’re undefeated so they might overpay to improve their shot at winning it all this year. Offer McKinney and Watt And see what they will give up.
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McKinney is out for the season.
 
badboy said:
I'm not sure how impactful Covid has been. Those I am aware of didn't want the risk of injury in a season that many at the time were saying might not be completed. The draft still happens next year. Those "coming out early" do not get selected earlier. The desire appears to me not wanting a bad year of play or health /injuries to drop draft rank. Lawrence, LT Pene Sewell(sp), Justin Fields, JaMarr Chase are playing.
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More players will come out because of the uncertainty of next season. Another outbreak and another year wasted without pay. Any agent or “adviser“ will tell the that coming out is the best option.
 
I don't get the obsession to move Watt to GB or Pitt. And yes I know where he's from and yes I know where his brothers play. I also don't care. If Buffalo offers me the best pick(s) for him then that's where he goes. If it's Baltimore, fine. If a McDonald's in Jupiter, Florida can somehow, some way get me the best compensation to make this team better faster then so be it.
 
Getting a top flight GM is the first hurdle. A good GM will turn around the personnel in roughly a 3 year time frame, with solid picks and a good eye for 2nd and 3rd tier talent in free agency.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I don't get the obsession to move Watt to GB or Pitt. And yes I know where he's from and yes I know where his brothers play. I also don't care. If Buffalo offers me the best pick(s) for him then that's where he goes. If it's Baltimore, fine. If a McDonald's in Jupiter, Florida can somehow, some way get me the best compensation to make this team better faster then so be it.
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Even though yeah it’s a business Sometimes certain players deserve to be treated with respect. If JJ Watt isn’t one of those players I don’t know who is. He is the greatest player who’s ever put on a texans uniform. he’s done EVERYTHING ever asked of him and more, on and off the field. He most likely has two or three productive years left. any decent team would send him somewhere he wants to go.
 
mussop said:
Even though yeah it’s a business Sometimes certain players deserve to be treated with respect. If JJ Watt isn’t one of those players I don’t know who is. He is the greatest player who’s ever put on a texans uniform. he’s done EVERYTHING ever asked of him and more, on and off the field. He most likely has two or three productive years left. any decent team would send him somewhere he wants to go.
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No one has suggested disrespecting the man. He's absolutely all those things you said. But I'm a Texans fan and I wanna see the Texans win more than I'm a Watt fan wanting to see Watt in his dream scenario. He's performed immensely and he's been paid immensely. That's fair. He also entered into a business that at any point, particularly for a responsible one, can and will act like a business. If I call Pittsburgh and they offer me a 4th rounder and a scrub and I call Buffalo and they offer me a 2nd rounder then he's going to be a Bill - and make badillions more dollars doing the thing he loves - and I'm going to begin building this team as best possible to win. And I damn sure hope that's what the Texans are thinking about - winning - and not being BFF's with employees.
 
steelbtexan said:
They need to open up cap space and try to get as many draft picks as possible.

For instance if they could get a 3rd for WFV or a 4th for Duke in their walk yrs would you do it? Then trading Watt say for a 2nd or 3rd would open up 17.5 mil in cap space. They aren't going to be able to trade Mckinney or DJ but that would save them roughly 16.5 Cut N.Martin 6 mil you get the point, that's over 50 mil in cap space and would go along way to spending in fa to rebuild the defense. Any draft picks you get is the desert. Holding onto guys would be a mistake particularly high salary guys.
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Would it be better to trade or cut online players or get better coaching? I mean, if you had Dennison or Callahan with that zbs, I think this oline can be very good. In terms of rebuilding the defense, Tampa doesn't have alot of high drafted, highly paid players on defense.
 
Watt's cap hit for this season is 15.5m

Only 10 teams have that much cap space available.

Only two of those 10 are .500 and above - Cleveland 4-2 and Miami 3-3.
Three teams are 1 game under .500 Denver , Detroit and NE.
The rest of those teams with cap space likely have no interest in taking on salary and giving up assets being multiple games below .500

Pittsburgh has $9,712,833
Green Bay has $8,518,601
 
Corrosion said:
Watt's cap hit for this season is 15.5m

Only 10 teams have that much cap space available.

Only two of those 10 are .500 and above - Cleveland 4-2 and Miami 3-3.
Three teams are 1 game under .500 Denver , Detroit and NE.
The rest of those teams with cap space likely have no interest in taking on salary and giving up assets being multiple games below .500

Pittsburgh has $9,712,833
Green Bay has $8,518,601
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They won't be paying the full amount.
 
Corrosion said:
Watt's cap hit for this season is 15.5m

Only 10 teams have that much cap space available.

Only two of those 10 are .500 and above - Cleveland 4-2 and Miami 3-3.
Three teams are 1 game under .500 Denver , Detroit and NE.
The rest of those teams with cap space likely have no interest in taking on salary and giving up assets being multiple games below .500

Pittsburgh has $9,712,833
Green Bay has $8,518,601
Click to expand...

I'm sure a team could create cap space to to add Watt if they want too. Restructure
 
leebigeztx said:
I think Watt can still play at a pro bowl level if he gets help. Right now, none of the lbs can cover and nobody can get a consistent rush. I mean Fitzgerald stayed when the team was sorry. They need better players around him.
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Unfortunately it's time to move on.
 
Mollywhopper said:
No one has suggested disrespecting the man. He's absolutely all those things you said. But I'm a Texans fan and I wanna see the Texans win more than I'm a Watt fan wanting to see Watt in his dream scenario. He's performed immensely and he's been paid immensely. That's fair. He also entered into a business that at any point, particularly for a responsible one, can and will act like a business. If I call Pittsburgh and they offer me a 4th rounder and a scrub and I call Buffalo and they offer me a 2nd rounder then he's going to be a Bill - and make badillions more dollars doing the thing he loves - and I'm going to begin building this team as best possible to win. And I damn sure hope that's what the Texans are thinking about - winning - and not being BFF's with employees.
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Good for you but that’s a scumbag move if he really doesn’t want to go to buffalo.
 
thunderkyss said:
But he's the best we've got.
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He's the best we've got to trade. After we get beat by Green Bay pretty much rules us out for playoffs. As much as I hate to say it, we need to begin to prepare for 2021. If GB wants JJ seems they should not want him to be hurt Sunday and be willing to up offer a bit for us to hold him out or take him now but agree not to play him against us.

I can hope for bidding war. Lions need IDL and WR and their round 2 should be higher.
 
mussop said:
Good for you but that’s a scumbag move if he really doesn’t want to go to buffalo.
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Scumbag move for who?

For the fans of the team? For the guys on the roster trying to rebuild?

Because JJ doesn't just up and get what JJ wants? He's made no more promises to this organization than they've made to him.

You sound like we would be kicking out of the league penniless and alone. Quite the absolute contrary in fact.
 
leebigeztx said:
I think Watt can still play at a pro bowl level if he gets help. Right now, none of the lbs can cover and nobody can get a consistent rush. I mean Fitzgerald stayed when the team was sorry. They need better players around him.
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What value as a Pro Bowl level does Watt bring? GB appears to need WR more than JJ.
I would love to trade Fuller, Cook and JJ if good value.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Scumbag move for who?

For the fans of the team? For the guys on the roster trying to rebuild?

Because JJ doesn't just up and get what JJ wants? He's made no more promises to this organization than they've made to him.

You sound like we would be kicking out of the league penniless and alone. Quite the absolute contrary in fact.
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It’s a scumbag move by an organization against a guy that’s been the face of the franchise and the league for that matter. I get your point and like I said it is a business but there are exceptions. And a decent organization on rare occasion should make exceptions for special players. JMO.
 
mussop said:
It’s a scumbag move by an organization against a guy that’s been the face of the franchise and the league for that matter. I get your point and like I said it is a business but there are exceptions. And a decent organization on rare occasion should make exceptions for special players. JMO.
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We just disagree fundamentally. And that's totally fair. I don't think the org. owes a player anything, and vice versa, after the contract. These guys are making generations of wealth in many circumstances, certainly JJ's, and what's it for an org. to tell the player that they should give less or more in return out of gratitude.

I just want to see the best for the franchise while not thinking that the player is all of the sudden made to, in any practical sense, suffer.. but I can certainly respect simply disagreeing though.
 
Texansballer74 said:
How so? We’ve done that and look at us now. It actually made us a terrible team.
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True, but we can't get any more worst than we are now right (touch wood)? Might as well get the draft capital needed and unload some of these contracts to build for the future.

When ever I think of the draft/F.A, I can't help but facepalm myself cause of OB. He really screwed us over

HC - mediocre
GM - piss poor

Btw I'd try and keep cooks and trade Fuller or vice versa.
 
GanadoUHCoog said:
Pretty much none of our top paid guys are worth the $ paid them. Only untouchable is Watson as he is a franchise QB. Everyone else can go if we get a decent trade offer or be cut later if way overpaid for their production and reasonable cap hit to cut them. Rebuild this thing completely in 2 seasons. No pussyfooting around for multiple years. Watson’s big $$$ is coming due soon and if we want to stay truly competive we have to get rid all the dead weight and get some young talent in here to counter balance a $40M QB cap hit.
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Watt maybe gone but Fuller, Stills David and Duke should all be gone 21.
 
Mollywhopper said:
We just disagree fundamentally. And that's totally fair. I don't think the org. owes a player anything, and vice versa, after the contract. These guys are making generations of wealth in many circumstances, certainly JJ's, and what's it for an org. to tell the player that they should give less or more in return out of gratitude.

I just want to see the best for the franchise while not thinking that the player is all of the sudden made to, in any practical sense, suffer.. but I can certainly respect simply disagreeing though.
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Watt isn't earning 15.5 m this year.
 
I would say except Watson and maybe Tunsill any player on this roster is available for the right price and if some team is dumb enough to offer the Texans an OB like deal for Tunsill you take it without hesitation. This team needs draft capital and cap space yesterday.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I think the Texans could get the attention of Green Bay by offering Watt and Fuller for RB- AJ Dillon and a 2021 RD2 and maybe 2022 RD4. I do believe Dillon could be a beast with a some time on the field. I'd love to have him this season as the 1st and 2nd down back b/c of his size: 6'-0" / 250 lbs / Dude is cut muscle / 4.53-40 / 23 reps 225 lbs. He's a no joke downhill runner who can make a cut a go. A RB like this could certainly soften up defenses before trotting David Johnson onto the field as a 3rd down back.....his true calling. This would make Duke Johnson available for trade and maybe a RD4 return.
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You know how I love AJ Dillon at his size with that speed he would be perfect for Texans; our Derrick Henry! One stat you didn't mention that makes me shake my head; 41 inch vertical at 250 pounds!
Dillon for Fuller and 2021 round two plus a 4th in 22 for JJ would make that trade better.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Fairly certain I wouldn't ship out Howard or Scharping until the team has a new (man I hope) an improved OL Coach for the 2021 season. There's been zero talent evaluator on this team that could see where these guys may fit best on the OL. OB's desire to have Devlin move these guys all over the OL instead of them learning their primary position has been a detriment to their development.

Me....I'd trade Nick Martin to the Cowboys tomorrow and they'd probably entertain that call based on their OL injuries. Texans might get a RD4 for that trade.......and I'll take it!!!!
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Dallas might be willing to get Scharping and Howard for just those reasons. Martin would probably faint after what happened to his brother.
Dead $ but...
Jones is going to look silly if he has to fire McCarthy. If we had a GM, we maybe could work some of these situations to our advantage.
 
mussop said:
It’s a scumbag move by an organization against a guy that’s been the face of the franchise and the league for that matter. I get your point and like I said it is a business but there are exceptions. And a decent organization on rare occasion should make exceptions for special players. JMO.
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Unfortunately I'm more like Mollywhopper. Dammit. LOL
 
leebigeztx said:
I would trade Fuller because he's a free agent. Cooks salary going forward is a good deal and he's fairly still young. We can only dream to dump Whitney.
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Mercilus has too much dead money to trade
leebigeztx said:
I would trade Fuller because he's a free agent. Cooks salary going forward is a good deal and he's fairly still young. We can only dream to dump Whitney.
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I wonder if Steelers can use Mercilus to replace ILB Bush? Different type players but if Steelers want to remain in the hunt..? Significant dead money also.
 
steelbtexan said:
It's a start. What's this yrs cap?
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Our total cap liability is $210.4 million. We are over the 2020 cap due to roll over space from 2019 of about 21m. IIRC. We have about $8 million left of that rollover.

2021 total liability is about 121 million or apprx 50 over the agreed to minimum of 175. We can get close to that with cuts and trades mentioned but have no room for any free agent. At least as I see the numbers.
 
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