Doesn't matter, it's about making a statement. If a few kids that can still get a free education and lose football what does it hurt? Aren't they supposed to be at Penn St for the education first and foremost?
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NCAA wanted to give Penn State 4 year death penalty
- Thread starter Stemp
- Start date
Doesn't matter, it's about making a statement. If a few kids that can still get a free education and lose football what does it hurt? Aren't they supposed to be at Penn St for the education first and foremost?
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Of course it wouldn't matter to you because there is zero impact to you
Agreed
Just keep in mind young boys were allowed to be raped for over a decade and the football program aided and abetted a child molester.
BTW, Penn St athletes can still get their degree. Isn't that what college is supposed to be for? So are the athleetes really that affected?
Lets just agree to disagree on this one.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
I think this is the crux of the issue here. I don't believe the football program aided and abetted a child molester. I believe that coaches, including the head coach and head of the program, aided and abetted a child molester in order to protect the program.
Theres a big difference.
If these Penn St players were adults (like professional NFL players) I say screw them and give them the death penalty. But they are kids. They aren't adults. Why screw more kids (pun intended)
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
They were employees of a business who did illegal things while working at said business, so the business is penalized. That's how it works in every other case of corruption within a business, this one is just a little different because it's the NCAA doing the penalizing instead of the IRS or SEC. Penn State is welcome to avoid all the sanctions by leaving the NCAA, they are only a member and are not required to stay.
Thats not how the NCAA system works. These are students on scholarships, not employees. Like I said above, if these were adults and this was a business, I would totally agree. But these are not adults, they are not employees, and so its a totally different situation.
So are they students 1st or athletes 1st?
Because if they're students 1st (which they should be) then Penn St. is still honoring their scholarships. If they're athletes 1st and academics 2nd, then the football program should be shut down until this changes.
You're trying to categorize them as one thing and not the other and thats not how it works. These are student athletes. The order is irrelevent
Hervoyel
BUENO!
There's really two different things to address here. The legal price that should and will be paid by Sandusky and anyone (living) who helped cover up what he did. That will be addressed first and foremost by the law. The NCAA sanctions are broader in scope than what the law will deal with. They focus on the problems at the institution in general and the environment that existed and that allowed these crimes to happen the way they did in the first place. More than that though the NCAA should be looking at the way that the alumni, students, and football players at Penn State have circled the wagons, rallied behind Coach Paterno before his death, and in general seemed to not understand that they weren't the victims in this case. When I saw this press conference that the players who are staying held I decided for myself that the NCAA had not done enough because these young men do not seem to grasp anything pertaining to this case beyond their school and their team. They called a press conference, they came and defiantly said they were going to hold their heads up high and keep the faith. They did what every single group of assembled Penn State folks have done since this started. They grabbed the cameras, pointed them at themselves, and played victim.
The program should have been shut down. The players should have been given a chance to play elsewhere if they liked or to earn a degree at Penn State if they didn't want to go anywhere else. The town, the people, the alumni all need an enormous hand to come slap them back into reality and deliver at least a mild concussion of perspective. Instead of becoming the institution that was held up so high and then fell so far in shame they're going to be the "Little Engine That Could" over the next four years as they compete without Bowl games and with fewer scholarships. Every success will be celebrated as a triumph over their persecution.
I don't know why I expected the NCAA to get it right and honestly I don't blame them. Not a lot of people I know had a clear idea what to do. I know this now though. I know that Penn State is broken morally and needed to hit the reset button.
The program should have been shut down. The players should have been given a chance to play elsewhere if they liked or to earn a degree at Penn State if they didn't want to go anywhere else. The town, the people, the alumni all need an enormous hand to come slap them back into reality and deliver at least a mild concussion of perspective. Instead of becoming the institution that was held up so high and then fell so far in shame they're going to be the "Little Engine That Could" over the next four years as they compete without Bowl games and with fewer scholarships. Every success will be celebrated as a triumph over their persecution.
I don't know why I expected the NCAA to get it right and honestly I don't blame them. Not a lot of people I know had a clear idea what to do. I know this now though. I know that Penn State is broken morally and needed to hit the reset button.
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Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I suppose this is a good place to put this. The Longhorns just got the PSU FG kicker, who is pretty good and has 2 years of eligibility left.
Current Players Leaving:
Ryan Nowicki (Illinois)
Rob Bolden (LSU)
Tim Buckley (NC State)
Khairi Fortt (Cal)
Jamil Pollard (Rutgers)
Silas Redd (USC)
Kevin Haplea (FSU)
Anthony Fera (Texas)
Current Players Considering Transferring:
Brian Gaia (considering Rutgers)
Mike Hull (considering Pitt)
Akeel Lynch (considering Iowa)
Current Players Leaving:
Ryan Nowicki (Illinois)
Rob Bolden (LSU)
Tim Buckley (NC State)
Khairi Fortt (Cal)
Jamil Pollard (Rutgers)
Silas Redd (USC)
Kevin Haplea (FSU)
Anthony Fera (Texas)
Current Players Considering Transferring:
Brian Gaia (considering Rutgers)
Mike Hull (considering Pitt)
Akeel Lynch (considering Iowa)
11 out of 80-90 scholarship players.
These sanctions certianly aren't anything that cant be overcome quickly.
These sanctions certianly aren't anything that cant be overcome quickly.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Several of those guys are starters, and Redd was a workhorse RB. They will definitely be missed. I can't imagine many of the 2nd and 3rd string guys will get offers though, and it will be a long time before they get another 5-star recruit. No great HS prospect is going to want to go there for at least 2 years.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Maybe
But Penn St got off light. They will be rebuilt in 5 yrs or so. Meanwhile SMU who only paid student athletes $$$$ still haven't recovered.
Lets just agree to disagree.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Penn State wont be "back" in five years, Im not sure why you keep bringing up SMU and to say lets agree to disagree is a little silly if you keep posting about it.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Comparing SMU to Penn State is kind of pointless. SMU was a "never was" college football program that was only able to reach the heights that program did by paying players. Even at their peak they were barely significant outside of the SWC. When they disappeared it's not like a national following was affected. It's not like kids all over the country had their hopes dashed because they couldn't play football at SMU. Penn State on the other hand has been a college football power forever. Even if the punishments were identical it would be silly to assume that the death penalty would have the same affect on Penn State that it did on SMU. Penn State will without any doubt be back in business in 5 years. Not a doubt in my mind.
The NCAA is scared I think to hit schools with the death penalty after seeing how it destroyed SMU's program but somebody like Penn State, Oklahoma, UT, or Alabama wouldn't even begin to struggle the way SMU did. I think they erred on the side of caution in not hitting Penn State with it and I think that was a mistake.
The NCAA is scared I think to hit schools with the death penalty after seeing how it destroyed SMU's program but somebody like Penn State, Oklahoma, UT, or Alabama wouldn't even begin to struggle the way SMU did. I think they erred on the side of caution in not hitting Penn State with it and I think that was a mistake.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Because of the sliding scale of college football scholorships and how your pipeline gets drained they will not be able to fully reload with recruits for 8 years or something of that nature
Hervoyel
BUENO!
But I can point to countless college programs that have a full slate of scholarships who suck, have mostly always sucked, and will continue to suck. I expect that Penn State will start drawing quality players again as soon as the end of their punishment gets close enough for those players to get the chance to play in a bowl game. Even before that they will draw a better class of recruit than SMU did once they were stopped from paying them a salary. With just their remaining scholarships they'll be better than a lot of teams. I think you can count on that. That's the difference between a major program getting hit and a minor one. Nothing more.
Kids now are a what have you done for me lately type. Unless they have ties to Penn St, I dont think they will draw kids away from similar programs without the black eyes
Penn state has a base of support similiar to UT, A & M, OU, etc in that the stadium will still be full and degrees will still have value. Pennsylvania is a strong football state with plenty of guys growing up always wanting the Pennstate experience, education, etc. The school will have more trouble getting 5 stars from out of state, but they have enough scholarships and base of support where I would be shocked if they roll off multiple 2-10, 3-9 years.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't know all of the facts about this case, but I don't think that the UNiversity deserved the death penalty if they got rid of everyone that was involved or that had any idea of what was taking place. I thought they had cleaned house. I'm not sure if it's fair to punish the fans, the UNiversity, and everyone else that had no clue of what was taking place with the death penalty to where it might take them another 20 years to get back on track.
Great rant, Herv. I agree completely.
It is obvious that the entire "Penn State culture" is flawed, tainted, and cancerous. They value the wrong things in life, and the entire thing should be blown up, melted down, and rebuilt with the mentality that IT'S JUST FOOTBALL.
When an insular culture starts to circle wagons and defend the indefensible simply because they want to protect a brand, then there are obvious cracks in a foundation that need to be REPLACED before anything else is built on it. As it stands now, they can play the victim as a fanbase, play the school as martyr, and use the haze of moral relativism to hide themselves from the shameful, disgusting stories that will forever leave a permanent mark on the university by those on the outside. But within the school culture, they will gloss it over and eventually put that JoePa statue back where they believe it belongs: front and center in front of the football stadium. Mark my words, just a matter of time.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Former player and coach intend to try to appeal vacated wins.
http://espn.go.com/college-football...ny-lions-players-intend-appeal-ncaa-sanctions
Really? I mean even former players and coaches just don't get it.
Initially I wavered on the death penalty after a couple of heated discussions, but seeing the reaction of the current and now former players...the institution and community that continue to circle the wagons deserve it.
http://espn.go.com/college-football...ny-lions-players-intend-appeal-ncaa-sanctions
Really? I mean even former players and coaches just don't get it.
Initially I wavered on the death penalty after a couple of heated discussions, but seeing the reaction of the current and now former players...the institution and community that continue to circle the wagons deserve it.
TimeKiller
Guest
Penn St. is lucky. If it were my decision, they would be tearing the stadium down right about now.