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Mario gets mad and...

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
That's where a great former player would have been a a great coach. Like a Singletary, his presence alone makes other players better, and his knowledge of the game and what it takes to dominate are invaluable...The Texans need to find someone like that to add to the staff..
Yeah, too bad Singletary is with the Niners. I'd love him to coach our LB's.
 

hobie

All Pro
Yeah, too bad Singletary is with the Niners. I'd love him to coach our LB's.
Coach the LB's, shoot, DL, DB...his presence alone would or should get these guys fired up, more so when he gets in thier faces..maybe Kubes can talk TJ out of the ESPN offices..
 
R

real

Guest
Morlon says he added 5 lbs of muscle and has become more physical...

I'm one of the biggest Morlon detractors, but I will remain optimistic and hope that he truly has found a way to turn up the aggression and down hill play like Demeco...
 
R

real

Guest
See how mad he really got...about a third of the way, they show a play where he just throws down somebody. I think it might have been Winston at RT.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/

Color me unimpressed wit Mario and a little dissapointed with Winston.

All Mario did was use the fact that Winston was leaning forward and push pulled him...It's one of the most basic moves in the book...Bull rush a guy and when you feel him start to push back against you you pull him forward and the momentum usually ends up making the guy bite the dust...

Maybe it's the OT in me, but that to me is more of strike against Eric Winston's technique...I'm a big technique guy and I believe no .He should have kept his base, kept his hips down, arms extended, and balance on the balls of his feet..

Of course Mario is the type of DE that keeps tackles off balance...You have to compensate for his speed while at the same time remembering his strength...Mario has the tools and if he ever puts it together he'll easily be a 12 sack a year DE....Inexperinced tackles like Winston will probably lose a lot of matches to Mario though...

P.S. I never want to hear that Mario is strictly playing RDE again.
 

Fiddy

All Pro
See how mad he really got...about a third of the way, they show a play where he just throws down somebody. I think it might have been Winston at RT.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/
Call me crazy, but I thought Mario was gonna stay at the RE position and not be switched around. In that play, he is playing the LE position. I know Weaver is hurt, and that's probably why Mario is at LE, but I would really like to see Mario stay and get use to one position like the coaches said he would.
 
R

real

Guest
Call me crazy, but I thought Mario was gonna stay at the RE position and not be switched around. In that play, he is playing the LE position. I know Weaver is hurt, and that's probably why Mario is at LE, but I would really like to see Mario stay and get use to one position like the coaches said he would.
Technically he was still playing weakside DE so in essence his technique and reads should have been the same...

If he stays at RDE and the offense has a TE to his side his tehnique would change...

If they were in a no tight situation I don't think it matters much which side he was on...
 

Fiddy

All Pro
Technically he was still playing weakside DE so in essence his technique and reads should have been the same...

If he stays at RDE and the offense has a TE to his side his tehnique would change...

If they were in a no tight situation I don't think it matters much which side he was on...
I'm pretty sure technique changes because, to begin with, he'd have to put down his left hand instead of his right hand, and from what I've heard Mario say, being on the RE and the LE are two different things because of how you have to rush, but I'm not a DE so maybe you are right.
 

gtexan02

Working?
There is clearly a big difference. Players specialize on one side or the other. Do I have evidence? Not directly,

BUT read Unimeyora's (I have no idea how to spell that) comments about the probability of picking up Simeon rice and him switching to the other side. He absoultely REFUSES to do it.

I don't know what the difference is, but there is something there.

I think the major thing is run defense. LDE have to be better at stopping the run, and the RDE is focused on rushing the passer.
 
R

real

Guest
I'm pretty sure technique changes because, to begin with, he'd have to put down his left hand instead of his right hand, and from what I've heard Mario say, being on the RE and the LE are two different things because of how you have to rush, but I'm not a DE so maybe you are right.
Can't really explain it (or atleast I can't find the words to), but as long as he's on the weakside of the formation his reads and technique will (basically) be the same....

The only difference will be which hand he puts down and what foot he staggers back...

If he can't master that then we're in trouble...
 

gtexan02

Working?
Osi said:
Umenyiora was adamant he was not going to move to the left side so Rice could play the right end.

"I'm a right end," Umenyiora said. "I have been successful at right end. I don't feel the need to move to a different position, that's kind of crazy if you ask me. Ask me to move to left defensive end because Simeon Rice is here? It's ridiculous."

When told that Strahan moved to left end early in his career, Umenyiora got defensive.

"Michael was never successful as a right defensive end," he said. "He wasn't if you look at his play. When they moved him to left defensive end, that's when he blew up because he is a natural left defensive end. I don't think you can make that argument with me."

Strahan also balked at moving to the left side.

"I am not going to move to left defensive end if they sign Simeon Rice," Umenyiora insisted. "That's what I'm telling you. If the team asks me, 'We need you to move to left defensive end because we need you at that position,' I will. But I will not move to left defensive end because Simeon Rice is coming in."
There must be something there
 
R

real

Guest
There is clearly a big difference. Players specialize on one side or the other. Do I have evidence? Not directly,

BUT read Unimeyora's (I have no idea how to spell that) comments about the probability of picking up Simeon rice and him switching to the other side. He absoultely REFUSES to do it.

I don't know what the difference is, but there is something there.

I think the major thing is run defense. LDE have to be better at stopping the run, and the RDE is focused on rushing the passer.

Stop this LDE and RDE insanity...

You have a weakside DE, and you have a strong side DE...

DE's as well as LB's generally switch sides depending on the strength...That is why you normally don't see the defense get set until the offense breaks the huddle and is on their way to the line...

Think about it...If we put Babin in at Weakside DE and he didn't move according to the strength of the formation all the offense would have to do is put a TE on "Babin's side" and run at him every time...

Umenyoira is saying he doesn't want to be moved to Strong side DE, AKA the side with the TE, AKA the side the TE is on... which is generally going to be LDE....BUT THE STRENGTH CAN CHANGE PUTTING THE SDE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE DEFENSE...

His comments:

"What position is he going to play over here? Left defensive end? He's not a run player. Everybody knows he's not a run defensive player and that's where they run the football at. The only other option would be to move me over (to the left) and I'm not moving over there."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2007/07/31/2007-07-31_osi_wont_move_for_rice.html

Osi doesn't want to move to the strong side because he likes the freedom of not having a TE in his way every snap...

In the clip we saw of Mario, there was NO TE on his side, so it's safe to assume that he was indeed on the weakside of the formation...
 
R

real

Guest
Remeber the link please: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2955357

But yeah, it's a wierd thing I guess but I'd just like to see Mario stay at RE, no moving. Coaches said they were going to do that but it doesnt look like they are sticking to it.
If Mario doesn't move when the strength changes he will be playing a differnet position...

I would say 85-90% of the time the strength will dictate Mario be at RDE, but if the strength changes don't be surprised to see him switch too...
 

Fiddy

All Pro
So when Kubes said Mario was gonna be the RE, he really said Mario would be the weakside??? He could have clarified that lol
 
R

real

Guest
So when Kubes said Mario was gonna be the RE, he really said Mario would be the weakside??? He could have clarified that lol
Mario will probably be on the right side around 90% of the time...That's why they just use the term RDE...

It's rare that the strength will dictate Mario move to the left side...

Last year Mario played both strong side and weakside...

I think they just plan on keepng him on the weakside this year...
 

gtexan02

Working?
The problem with all this "strong side / weak side" versus right and left is that you give examples of linebackers, and I will give you examples of DBs.

Dunta is ALWAYS on the same side of the field. It has nothing to do with whether or not the TE is on that side of the field. He always plays on one side.

Apparently, the linebackers switch depending on the formation.

I would have to watch some actual games to see if DEs regularly switch. I was under the impression that TE or no TE, Freeney always went against our LT. That would make him a RDE, not a weakside DE. But I could be wrong

The thing that changes is not just which hand you put down and which foot you start with. The entire field is switched. You use an entire different half of your body strength when rushing the ball carrier/passer. Your lateral movement changes. Your vision changes. I would think being moved around from the right side to the left side could really confuse some players
 
R

real

Guest
The problem with all this "strong side / weak side" versus right and left is that you give examples of linebackers, and I will give you examples of DBs.

Dunta is ALWAYS on the same side of the field. It has nothing to do with whether or not the TE is on that side of the field. He always plays on one side.

Apparently, the linebackers switch depending on the formation.

I would have to watch some actual games to see if DEs regularly switch. I was under the impression that TE or no TE, Freeney always went against our LT. That would make him a RDE, not a weakside DE. But I could be wrong

The thing that changes is not just which hand you put down and which foot you start with. The entire field is switched. You use an entire different half of your body strength when rushing the ball carrier/passer. Your lateral movement changes. Your vision changes. I would think being moved around from the right side to the left side could really confuse some players

:gun:










Well, good luck with that....

:texflag:
 

gtexan02

Working?
:gun:

Well, good luck with that....

:texflag:
I have no idea what you are referring to, but...

This has only to do with DBs as far as the quote is concerned, but I would assume it goes for all defensive/offensive players as well.

Vinny said:
Your plant foot and your free hand when using various techniques are all backwards when you flip. Some guys have no issues on either side of the field but for some it is as hard as writing left handed. Personally, I don't know if Dunta has any issues with direction and technique but I do know I like to see him on the weakside most of the time. Faggins is a good coverage guy but his run support is suspect.
 
R

real

Guest
I have no idea what you are referring to, but...

This has only to do with DBs as far as the quote is concerned, but I would assume it goes for all defensive/offensive players as well.
Why make assumptions about something you're not well informed about ?

And then argue them as fact?


I even noted in earlier post that the only thing that changes would be which hand he put down, and which foot he staggered back...you can go back and check if you'd like...

At the same time that is something small, aka minor, AKA not relevant...

The key is that by Mario switching according to the strength his reads will be the same...That is the biggest part.....Changing the way you line-up and which foot you have to plant are minor things that a proffesional football player should easily adjust to...

The Mental part of playing SDE vs WDE is where Mario had the problems last year...His alignment and such had nothing to do with it....

P.S. CB has noting to do with any of this.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Why make assumptions about something you're not well informed about ?

And then argue them as fact?


I even noted in earlier post that the only thing that changes would be which hand he put down, and which foot he staggered back...you can go back and check if you'd like...At the same time that is something small, aka minor, AKA not relevant...

The key is that by Mario switching according to the strength his reads will be the same...That is the biggest part.....Changing the way you line-up and which foot you have to plant are minor things that a proffesional football player should easily adjust to...

The Mental part of playing SDE vs WDE is where Mario had the problems last year...His alignment and such had nothing to do with it....

P.S. CB has noting to do with any of this.
school the youngsta...
 

Kaiser Toro

Native Mod
I would have to watch some actual games to see if DEs regularly switch. I was under the impression that TE or no TE, Freeney always went against our LT. That would make him a RDE, not a weakside DE. But I could be wrong
I will take my best stab at this to explain:
The offensive formation will dictate the strong and weak side dependent upon the placement along the offensive line of the TE. Moving your DE is counter productive due to the proximity of the point of attack. LB's and CB's have the time to view the TE going into position and can react if need be since they are on the second tier.

Feel free to correct this stabbing.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The problem with all this "strong side / weak side" versus right and left is that you give examples of linebackers, and I will give you examples of DBs.

Dunta is ALWAYS on the same side of the field. It has nothing to do with whether or not the TE is on that side of the field. He always plays on one side.

Apparently, the linebackers switch depending on the formation.

I would have to watch some actual games to see if DEs regularly switch. I was under the impression that TE or no TE, Freeney always went against our LT. That would make him a RDE, not a weakside DE. But I could be wrong

The thing that changes is not just which hand you put down and which foot you start with. The entire field is switched. You use an entire different half of your body strength when rushing the ball carrier/passer. Your lateral movement changes. Your vision changes. I would think being moved around from the right side to the left side could really confuse some players
As far as the CB's it varies by coverage & team. Dunta is always on the same side b/c for the most part, it really doesn't matter what side your on when you're playing a zone coverage like we played alot last year. But if you take say Tennessee where Fisher likes to leave his corners on islands, his best CB is usually on the the #1 WR, which can of course line up on either side of the field.
 

gtexan02

Working?
school the youngsta...
Unfortunately, im older than xtru, AND if you would have read what I posted, I've never claimed any of what I've said to be fact.

ive been trying to pull information out from other sources since I don't know the facts

Ive said at least a few times that I'm making assumptions and would need to actually watch a DE switch sides in reference to the TE to see how the lines really work
 
R

real

Guest
I will take my best stab at this to explain:
The offensive formation will dictate the strong and weak side dependent upon the placement along the offensive line of the TE. Moving your DE is counter productive due to the proximity of the point of attack. LB's and CB's have the time to view the TE going into position and can react if need be since they are on the second tier.

Feel free to correct this stabbing.
I don't know for sure what the colts do but if you notice, most defenses don't get set until the offense is coming to the line....That's because the offense dictates how the defense lines up...

If the colts do indeed leave Freeney on the right when the strength is to his side this would perfectly explain their poor run defense...

With all that said I really doubt the Colts leave him over there because if they did.... well....it just wouldn't be that smart...
 

gtexan02

Working?
I don't know for sure what the colts do but if you notice, most defenses don't get set until the offense is coming to the line....That's because the offense dictates how the defense lines up...

If the colts do indeed leave Freeney on the right when the strength is to his side this would perfectly explain their poor run defense...

With all that said I really doubt the Colts leave him over there because if they did, why haven't the Texans just put a TE on his side and run in his direction all game...
I just dont see the point in moving your DEs around, because the opposing offense could jsut as easily line up with the TE on one side and motion him over to the other side. I guarantee you the DEs won't switch places in that instance

Also, I don't think Mathis is any better at stopping the run than Freeney. Iif anything, I think he is known as even more of a pass rushing specialist
 

Kaiser Toro

Native Mod
I just dont see the point in moving your DEs around, because the opposing offense could jsut as easily line up with the TE on one side and motion him over to the other side. I guarantee you the DEs won't switch places in that instance
That is where scouting comes into play and your veteran leadership have to take notice and step up mentally, vocally and physically.
 

gtexan02

Working?
I will take my best stab at this to explain:
The offensive formation will dictate the strong and weak side dependent upon the placement along the offensive line of the TE. Moving your DE is counter productive due to the proximity of the point of attack. LB's and CB's have the time to view the TE going into position and can react if need be since they are on the second tier.

Feel free to correct this stabbing.
That is where scouting comes into play and your veteran leadership have to take notice and step up mentally, vocally and physically.

Im confused (as usual haha). Are you saying that DEs switch depending on the tight end or that they always line up on the same side of the line regardless of the position of the TE?

Scouting would be able to help in identifying when offenses like to motion TEs, but its not going to really help. If you have a really weak run stopping DE who lines up on the weak side every time, you line the TE on his opposite side, and then motion him over.

I dont see what the defense could do, because if they call for their DEs to switch, the offense snaps the ball and catches the D with their pants down. If the DL predicts the motion and lines up with the weaker DE against the TE, the offense just runs the without the motion, taking advantage of the mismatch again?
 
R

real

Guest
I just dont see the point in moving your DEs around, because the opposing offense could jsut as easily line up with the TE on one side and motion him over to the other side. I guarantee you the DEs won't switch places in that instance

If you watch any college football or highschool ball you will see the defense switch when the offense moves...When I was in highschool if the TE motioned our DE's and LB's would switch with him...this is not uncommon in highschool or college..

Switching sides when a player goes in motion is not condusive to NFL play because teams are too good and QB's are too smart...ALTHOUGH I HAVE SEEN IT DONE IN THE PRO'S....most of the time they will just make a call and to let the DE on the other side know he has a TE coming his way...
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
If the colts do indeed leave Freeney on the right when the strength is to his side this would perfectly explain their poor run defense...

With all that said I really doubt the Colts leave him over there because if they did.... well....it just wouldn't be that smart...
Freeney does line up virtually all the time (frankly can't remember him not lining up there) at RDE.
 

gtexan02

Working?
If you watch any college football or highschool ball you will see the defense switch when the offense moves...When I was in highschool if the TE motioned our DE's and LB's would switch with him...this is not uncommon in highschool or college..

Switching sides when a player goes in motion is not condusive to NFL play because teams are too good and QB's are too smart...ALTHOUGH I HAVE SEEN IT DONE IN THE PRO'S....most of the time they will just make a call and to let the DE on the other side know he has a TE coming his way...
Well considering we are talking about pro football here in the Texans forum, what does this equate to?

(Im honestly trying to figure this out, not trying to sound like a smart ass) Are you changing your stance, or are you still implying that DEs will switch sides depending on the tight end?

Are there "right and left defensive ends" or "weak side and strong side defensive ends"?

Someone who is sure of the answer please inform me!
 
R

real

Guest
That is where scouting comes into play and your veteran leadership have to take notice and step up mentally, vocally and physically.
Scouting: If a team is known for motioning TE's to the other side of the formation this is what you work on during the week


If a team hasn't shown it before and shows it on game day, this is when you make in game adjustments...the DE's will come to the sideline and tell the coach...hey they're motioning that TE before the snap...and the coach will say...ok this is how we'll treat that situation...

And that's pretty much that...
 

Kaiser Toro

Native Mod
Im confused (as usual haha). Are you saying that DEs switch depending on the tight end or that they always line up on the same side of the line regardless of the position of the TE?

Scouting would be able to help in identifying when offenses like to motion TEs, but its not going to really help. If you have a really weak run stopping DE who lines up on the weak side every time, you line the TE on his opposite side, and then motion him over.

I dont see what the defense could do, because if they call for their DEs to switch, the offense snaps the ball and catches the D with their pants down. If the DL predicts the motion and lines up with the weaker DE against the TE, the offense just runs the without the motion, taking advantage of the mismatch again?
To much innuendo and quick emotion is making this confusing. We should just leave it at the offense dictates SS and WS and the defense, dependent upon their personnel and strategy, reacts. I would not want my DE moving along the line after the SS is established due to exhaustion, a quick count and proximity of attack.
 

gtexan02

Working?
Scouting: If a team is known for motioning TE's to the other side of the formation this is what you work on during the week


If a team hasn't shown it before and shows it on game day, this is when you make in game adjustments...the DE's will come to the sideline and tell the coach...hey they're motioning that TE before the snap...and the coach will say...ok this is how we'll treat that situation...

And that's pretty much that...
Don't you see that it doesn't matter? If a team wanted to put a TE in front of Mario every snap, they could do it. They just move the TE in front him before the play. If he lines up on the side where the TE already is, they just run the play. Mario isn't going to move around to avoid the TE. DL don't move all the way down the line.
 

gtexan02

Working?
To much innuendo and quick emotion is making this confusing. We should just leave it at the offense dictates SS and WS and the defense, dependent upon their personnel and strategy, reacts. I would not want my DE moving along the line after the SS is established due to exhaustion, a quick count and proximity of attack.
I agree this is becoming more of a personal argument than what it should be, and Im sorry. So I'll just leave it at this.

I still don't understand what your specific view on the debate is. It sounds a little like both sides.

The question is simply do DEs line up on the WS/SS after the offense lines up or do they line up on the Right Side/Left Side.

Do DEs ignore the TE and line up on their side, or do they react to the offensive lines placement of the TE?
 
R

real

Guest
Well considering we are talking about pro football here in the Texans forum, what does this equate to?

(Im honestly trying to figure this out, not trying to sound like a smart ass) Are you changing your stance, or are you still implying that DEs will switch sides depending on the tight end?

Are there "right and left defensive ends" or "weak side and strong side defensive ends"?

Someone who is sure of the answer please inform me!

Generally you will have a WDE and a SDE.

Generally the LB's, DE's and Safeties will wait until the offense breaks the huddle before they get set...If you notice, CB's will already be where they're going to be unless a you have a dominat corner that you want on the teams most talented reciever...

while the offense is coming to the line the MLB will normally be the one to call out the strength...

He'll scream out STRONG RIGHT or STRONG LEFT...

The strength tells the DE's which side so go to...Safeties are a little different...sometimes they will line up according to the strenghth, and sometimes they won't...it just depends on the defenense that is called...

But for a rule of thumb, OLB's and DE's are going to line-up according to the strength of the formation...

For everyone else, it really just depends on how the coaches want to handle things...

like in some four three defenses you will have a three technique and a nose...and in others there won't be a nose...In our defense we use a three tech and a nose so, yes, Amobi will have to line-up according to strength as well...
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Freeney does line up virtually all the time (frankly can't remember him not lining up there) at RDE.
In the past, the Colts would move Freeney around after the offense came to the line of scrimmage. I once saw him line up over center on a passing down, versus the Texans. But, that was about 3 years ago.

I haven't seen the DEs swap spots during the practices I've seen. I have seen the DTs move depending on where the offense sets up.
 

gtexan02

Working?
This is very confusing, and as I said before, I think the only way to resolve the issue is to watch game tape of teams with highly talented DEs.

xtru I understand your opinion, and I especially am inclined to trust it since you've actually played and have the whole "been there done that" going on, but there seem to be enough other opinions that I guess we'll wait and just see what Mario does
 
R

real

Guest
Don't you see that it doesn't matter? If a team wanted to put a TE in front of Mario every snap, they could do it. They just move the TE in front him before the play. If he lines up on the side where the TE already is, they just run the play. Mario isn't going to move around to avoid the TE. DL don't move all the way down the line.


Let's just chalk it up to xtru not knowing what he's talking about...

It's all good....
 
R

real

Guest
I have seen the DTs move depending on where the offense sets up.
DT's are a little bit more tricky because depending on whether it's an 'over' or an 'under' call the 1 gap DT could be on the strong side, or the weakside...
 
R

real

Guest
Freeney does line up virtually all the time (frankly can't remember him not lining up there) at RDE.
This is because offenses don't generally line up with a TE on the left side...

So yes you are probably correct...


But when was the last time you saw Freeney lined up in front of a TE when it was a running play ?
 

gtexan02

Working?
This is because offenses don't generally line up with a TE on the left side...

So yes you are probably correct...


But when was the last time you saw Freeney lined up in front of a TE when it was a running play ?

well, for one, I can remember him lining up against a TE when we ran 2 TE sets in that game we won. Obvoiusly not what you were looking for, but its not like Freeney is going to avoid TEs on every play

this is probably a stupid example
 

Kaiser Toro

Native Mod
I agree this is becoming more of a personal argument than what it should be, and Im sorry. So I'll just leave it at this.

I still don't understand what your specific view on the debate is. It sounds a little like both sides.

The question is simply do DEs line up on the WS/SS after the offense lines up or do they line up on the Right Side/Left Side.

Do DEs ignore the TE and line up on their side, or do they react to the offensive lines placement of the TE?
I believe that would dependent upon the defense's personnel and strategy via scouting and in game adjustments. It appears that a RDE/LDE designate is more about technique and a QB's blindside.

Once again someone please correct me if I am broadcasting from Pluto.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Why would Kubiak make a statement that Mario is a RE and will play from one position if it's really a SDE vs. WDE consideration?

I understand the concepts of moving a DE to either side, depending on the formation. But I'm wondering why the HC doesn't make that distinction, which is probably what has confused this subject more than anything else.
 
R

real

Guest
I believe that would dependent upon the defense's personnel and strategy via scouting and in game adjustments. It appears that a RDE/LDE designate is more about technique and a QB's blindside.

Once again someone please correct me if I am broadcasting from Pluto.
It's not.

The reason that Weadkside DE's are more often than not seen on the right side is because 90% of the time that is what the strength dictates...

Trust me when I say Mario and Weaver will most likely switch sides if the offense lines up with the TE next to the Lt...
 
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