Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!
bkimble said:I just head Cass on Rome. This guy is scary! He's the worse GM in the NFL, period. If Cass make the call on the number 1 pick we're in trouble.
yesssssss! This guy is scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!PowerfulDragon said:
Look. Those eyes are shrewd.
Cass would make a good evil warlord, no?
bkimble said:I just head Cass on Rome. This guy is scary! He's the worse GM in the NFL, period. If Cass make the call on the number 1 pick we're in trouble.
PowerfulDragon said:
Look. Those eyes are shrewd.
Cass would make a good evil warlord, no?
Runner said:Since he is most likely gone after the draft, it makes one wonder why the front office is keeping him around. I think it is because they value his opinion as part of the decision making process.
chuckm said:or for continuity ...
Runner said:It's not continuity if he's ignored, is it? It is continuity only if he's involved.
chuckm said:that's what I meant
Grid said:People really need to quit being sheep and think things through before they form thier opinions.
Casserly has done a good job in the draft WITH THE PICKS HE DIDNT TRADE.
his only mistakes have been trading up. When he actually picked players, he has a nice track record.
keep him from trading picks, and he will get us some starters.
dhaNim said:actually, it was on ESPN Cold Pizza this morning that word is Bob McNair is going to have the last word on who the number 1 pick is. and he is said to prefer Bush.
PowerfulDragon said:
Look. Those eyes are shrewd.
Cass would make a good evil warlord, no?
Grid said:here is the problem with basing your whole arguement on 2nd and 3rd rounders.
2005: no 2nd rounder, Morency in the 3rd.
2004: no 2nd, no 3rd.
2003: Bennie Joppru, Antwan Peek, Seth Wand, Dave Ragone
2002: Jabar Gaffney, Chester Pitts, Fred Weary, Charles Hill
now.. that means in 4 years we had 9 picks. The problem is that 8 of those picks came in 2003 and 2002 :P.
So lets look at them.
Morency: Not a bad pick. Alot of people are high on his potential. There are other players I might have prefered.. but we werent expecting to go 2-14 and have a chance at getting Bush this season. We needed someone behind Davis.
Joppru: Not...Casserlys...Fault. Quit blaming it on him.
Peek: Great pick. This guy could be a playmaker for us.
Wand: Not a bust yet and quite possibly one of our starting tackles next season. Olinemen take time to groom sometimes.
Ragone: Eh.. this pick is perfectly fine. I would have loved a more IMPORTANT pick here..but teams do need backup QBs..and we have had to use Ragone in the past, so its not a terrible pick.
Gaffney: Great pick.. could have been a cornerstone for our offense if he hadnt been misused.
Pitts: Started every snap since he was drafted. Superb pick.
Weary: Seems to be a career backup..but we will know for sure with this new staff evaluating him.
Hill: the only real bust.
That, to me.. doesnt look like a horrid record. It seems that the big problem people have with Casserly is about who he passed on in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.. well newsflash for ya.. 30 other teams passed on that player too. If you go and look at Casserlys picks and compare them to everyone elses.. alot of the time you will see that we got some of the better players in those rounds.
Also.. in regards to the 2002 draft. That was a horrible draft.. VERY FEW good players came out of it.
BTW.. just to keep things fair.
Jerome Mathis
C.C. Brown
Dunta Robinson
Glen Earl
Charlie Anderson
Andre Johnson
Domanick Davis
Drew Henson
Jonathen Wells
Demarcus Faggins
These are UNDENIABLE good picks that Casserly has made in rounds other than the 2nd and 3rd.
People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.
Grid said:here is the problem with basing your whole arguement on 2nd and 3rd rounders.
2005: no 2nd rounder, Morency in the 3rd.
2004: no 2nd, no 3rd.
2003: Bennie Joppru, Antwan Peek, Seth Wand, Dave Ragone
2002: Jabar Gaffney, Chester Pitts, Fred Weary, Charles Hill
now.. that means in 4 years we had 9 picks. The problem is that 8 of those picks came in 2003 and 2002 :P.
So lets look at them.
Morency: Not a bad pick. Alot of people are high on his potential. There are other players I might have prefered.. but we werent expecting to go 2-14 and have a chance at getting Bush this season. We needed someone behind Davis.
Joppru: Not...Casserlys...Fault. Quit blaming it on him.
Peek: Great pick. This guy could be a playmaker for us.
Wand: Not a bust yet and quite possibly one of our starting tackles next season. Olinemen take time to groom sometimes.
Ragone: Eh.. this pick is perfectly fine. I would have loved a more IMPORTANT pick here..but teams do need backup QBs..and we have had to use Ragone in the past, so its not a terrible pick.
Gaffney: Great pick.. could have been a cornerstone for our offense if he hadnt been misused.
Pitts: Started every snap since he was drafted. Superb pick.
Weary: Seems to be a career backup..but we will know for sure with this new staff evaluating him.
Hill: the only real bust.
That, to me.. doesnt look like a horrid record. It seems that the big problem people have with Casserly is about who he passed on in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.. well newsflash for ya.. 30 other teams passed on that player too. If you go and look at Casserlys picks and compare them to everyone elses.. alot of the time you will see that we got some of the better players in those rounds.
Also.. in regards to the 2002 draft. That was a horrible draft.. VERY FEW good players came out of it.
BTW.. just to keep things fair.
Jerome Mathis
C.C. Brown
Dunta Robinson
Glen Earl
Charlie Anderson
Andre Johnson
Domanick Davis
Drew Henson
Jonathen Wells
Demarcus Faggins
These are UNDENIABLE good picks that Casserly has made in rounds other than the 2nd and 3rd.
People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.
Grid said:So then you feel that a good GM gets sure-fire 100% starters with every first day pick? People who just jump in and dominate the game right away? If thats the case..there isnt a GM in the league who can live up to your standards.
You deal with "coulds" because you cant say FOR SURE how good a GM has done after only 4 seasons.. because there are still going to be players on your roster that they drafted who COULD really be great picks.. you just arent sure yet.
What im saying is that of all the picks he has made.. he has had some great ones.. and he has had some good ones who still look like they could be contributers...and he has had VERY few busts from first day picks.
You are looking at examples of who we could have taken instead.. hindsight is 20/20 and for every player taken after the first round that turns into a star..there are 31 teams that passed on him.
Casserlys only REAL mistakes in the draft have been his trades. The trade up for Babin specifically.
HoustonFrog said:No, that isn't what I'm saying but considering we were an expansion franchise and you have alot of picks to work with you should have more sure fire starters than we have. Many of the picks aren't even on the team anymore. No GM gets it perfect or even close but I just took down all of your arguments for the players you stated and yet you still fail to see how that is a failure. The first rounders we had were high enough where they were consensus, so in reality, the place where we needed to make a mark was the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Not only did he trade the picks but he picked poorly. I'm not getting how that is somehow defensible.
Grid said:I can deal with the homer accusations. Its to be expected when you disagree with something that all the other sheep take for fact, despite the illogic assumptions.
But I just cant handle the ignorance. A blind monkey can make a good #1 pick? Ever taken a look at 1st round picks and counted the busts?
Caphorn said:I honestly don't see how the on-field failures can be pinned on Cass or even those picks by Cass. The coaching staff was pathetic - particularly the offensive coaching staff. Pendry was absurdly bad. He even made Andre Johnson look like a pedestrian scrub. Are you guys here to say Andre's a scrub because he regressed under Pendry?
I don't see how you can cut out the first round picks frankly. When I began looking at Charlie's picks I had the same general viewpoint that he must suck, because the talking heads say so. Then I quickly found in looking at the draft order that Charlie did not do that poorly. Dre was the best player in the draft when he got picked No. 3. D-Rob was a controversial, but EXCELLENT choice where he was picked. He blew away the experts on that pick. His 2nd to 4th rounders have done no worse than average performance wise of the guys drafted around them. Some of them are probably above average. He has 2 mistakes which you could say are big: trading up for Babin and picking up Hollings. The Babin deal was clearly influenced by a coach claiming he needed a LB for his 3-4 and the choices were slim. In retrospect not a great choice, but it had to be done. Babin has a great motor and is still playing for us. I'm not ready to punt on him individually because he absolutely needed development. That said, what did we give up for him? I know in large part it was an extra pick that Cass had manipulated for us from his Drew Hansen deal. So we really gave up a 7th rounder to trade up for Babin (looking through the deals)? Hollings was a total gamble. But it was only a 3rd round pick. These are important, but you are going to have some busts. As related before, Cass has had 2 real third round busts (guys that never helped out). He has yet to absolutely bust a first rounder. That's unusual among his peers.
HoustonFrog said:The only people who are sheep are those who follow blindly. I wrote this awhile back and habve my OWN opinions. Nothing says that those picks are good. You even admitted that they haven't, in some cases, panned out YET. You can't just have an opinion on what they MIGHT be like and then make it a success. One guy out of your list has been a true success so far, no matter what you think of their talent. That is reality. I consider my opinion to be well thought out and researched on the facts we have, not on "maybes." There is nothing illogical about it. Charlie has failed as a GM for this franchise for the most part and the reason why national and local media discuss this is not to be sheep but because the track record speaks for itself as of this discussion.
swtbound07 said:He has shanked two of them...Babin wont start for us, and Carr shouldnt.
Grid said:People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.
Grid said:That, to me.. doesnt look like a horrid record. It seems that the big problem people have with Casserly is about who he passed on in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.. well newsflash for ya.. 30 other teams passed on that player too. If you go and look at Casserlys picks and compare them to everyone elses.. alot of the time you will see that we got some of the better players in those rounds.
Also.. in regards to the 2002 draft. That was a horrible draft.. VERY FEW good players came out of it.
BTW.. just to keep things fair.
Jerome Mathis
C.C. Brown
Dunta Robinson
Glen Earl
Charlie Anderson
Andre Johnson
Domanick Davis
Drew Henson
Jonathen Wells
Demarcus Faggins
These are UNDENIABLE good picks that Casserly has made in rounds other than the 2nd and 3rd.
People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.
Caphorn said:Carr would start on most teams. Babin not so much. I wouldn't personally be surprised to see Babin do well. Like I said, he has a f'n motor. I've personally enjoyed watching him play and think he gets too much sh!t for the order in which he was drafted. He was drafted early, but he's hardly a bust in the classic - Lawrence Phillips, Ryan Leaf - sense of the word.
dtran04 said:There are GM's MUCH worse than CC. We will see after/if he leaves what happens to us. Everyone online is an expert GM after seeing players for 3 years and saying we should have gotten so and so. Everyone falls into that trap.
swtbound07 said:18 teams that carr definitely wouldnt start for. As for the other options, here is why its debateable.
Porky said:What if you said it when the picks and/or trades were made. I'm not a 20/20 hindsight guy. I said it right then and there. Whatchu got to say bout that?
You can't just have an opinion on what they MIGHT be like and then make it a success.
I consider my opinion to be well thought out and researched on the facts we have, not on "maybes." There is nothing illogical about it. Charlie has failed as a GM for this franchise for the most part and the reason why national and local media discuss this is not to be sheep but because the track record speaks for itself as of this discussion.
If a person was drafted first overall...... HOW can you say 31 teams passed on him? Chucky has been inept, why do you think he is going to the NFL office? He is trying to get out of town...... before the entire experiment blows up in his face!
He has shanked two of them...Babin wont start for us, and Carr shouldnt
I agree. Now what was that you were saying about Vince Young?
Teams Carr wouldnt start on
Green Bay
Atlanta
San Diego
New York Giants
New England Patriots
Cinncinati Bengals
Indianapolis Colts
Jacksonville Jaguars
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Kansas City Chiefs
Carolina Panthers
Philidelphia Eagles
Pittsburgh Steelers
Seattle Seahawks
Baltimore Ravens
Denver Broncos
Arizona Cardinals
Chicago Bears
You can't say that definitively because there is no way to say how much of Carr's performance is surrounding cast and how much is him. It is the trouble with evaluating Carr.
What if you said it when the picks and/or trades were made. I'm not a 20/20 hindsight guy. I said it right then and there. Whatchu got to say bout that?
I want to explain something. My comments above are regarding my own opinion and what I have seen over our drafts. This includes needs at the time and who we picked compared to who was on the board. I think people have it all mixed up. It is healthy to have an opinion if you believe in it. You don't have to toe the company line ALL the time. Some people on this board think that if you have a differing opinion ...don't like Casserly, don't like Carr, etc..that you are somehow against the team and just being a sheep. The only people who are being sheep are ones who take what the team does as gospel and expect things to happen. There is a reason why we were 2-14 last year. Lack of talent being one of them. Charlie was in charge of that. Plain and simple. These aren't "negative" things they are opinions from people who want to win and who think Charlie was wrong to start. IMHO I want people in the organization to not accept losing and when people get paid for these jobs they have to accept responsibility. There are some in the Charlie camp who will never take responsibility and blame the old coaches. Guess what?You are the GM and get paid to make those decisions. There are some in the Carr camp that think he is awesome despite the team. Guess what?Everyone was bad..INCLUDING his decisions. Until people take responsibility and then correct it, the wheel will go round.
Grid said:I agree.. being a blind homer is never a good thing. However, there is a difference in "toeing the company line" and "looking at things from more than one perspective".
Im reading your posts and I see no good reason to say that Casserly sucks. Im not saying that because im in love with Casserly....I want to see Casserly gone.. he has made a lot of mistakes..but the mistakes werent his DRAFT PICKS. Where he made mistakes was in Free Agency, and in trading picks. When he actually made picks, he did a good job. That is what im saying.
You say that that is false because not every pick he has made has not yet turned into a playmaker or at least a solid starter.. some of them are still progressing. I disagree because I think that as long as the potential is still there.. and the player is still young.. then you cant say that he was a bad pick. Yet.
The whole basis for the "Casserly made terrible picks" seems to be based on who he COULD have taken. Well if I had the time and energy..i bet you I could go over the last 4 drafts and list PLENTY of GMs that have done worse than casserly. IF you dont take into account his trades.
HoustonFrog said:Well we will leave it at this. I don't think you are wrong per se, we just have different opinions. I don't think you are bad for having this opinion. What I was trying to state is that not everyone with a differing point of view on these subjects is trying to be negative or just go with the popular opinion. I am stating what I think are Casserlys downfall and IMHO 4 years has been long enough to judge these guys and I think he made bad choices with the positions he picked considering our needs in some cases. Time will tell but in my book he has failed in his duties so far..picking and traded. I respect your opinion though. It just is the far end of mine. I think in a year or two we will see that most of these guys are just backups and spot starters. Again, opinion as to what I see talent wise.
bkimble said:I just head Cass on Rome. This guy is scary! He's the worse GM in the NFL, period. If Cass make the call on the number 1 pick we're in trouble.
Bobo said:Casserly sounded to me like someone who knew what he was talking about and gave a good, cogent explanation of his philosophy. Of course, some people in Houston believe that kind of thing is a firing offense.
swtbound07 said:Teams Carr wouldnt start on
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Hookem Horns said:...Carr lost me last year ...
Grid said:quit being sheep .
swtbound07 said:Teams Carr wouldnt start on
Atlanta
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Kansas City Chiefs
Baltimore Ravens
Arizona Cardinals
Chicago Bears
Grid said:Joppru: Not...Casserlys...Fault. Quit blaming it on him.