Sportsfan
Rookie
This week I'll give you my report from the University of Texas Pro Day including how Vince Young fared. Everyone who went to the event had their own opinion and I had mine so I'll tell you what I thought. Also, John Harris breaks down his top rated offensive and defensive linemen in this year's draft. Next week I'll have news and notes around the NFL as well as a overview of how free agency has gone.
I hope you enjoy the newsletter this week and remember that if you are receiving this email because someone forwarded it to you or if you know someone who would like to receive it, just email me at sidelineview@gmail.com and I'll add you on the distribution list. - Lance Zierlein
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Vince Young's Workout and Texas Pro Day / Lance Zierlein
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I know that you can find a ton of different accounts and interpretations of Vince Young's workout but since I was able to see it in person I'll add my two cents as well as the opinions of NFL people I spoke with after the workout.
Vince Young was not scheduled to run the 40 yard dash and had not trained to run the 40 (why would he?) but he got excited while watching his teammates workout for the scouts and decided to run it once. The people I spike with who had watches on Vince had him from between 4.57 to 4.61 and truth be told, that is about what it looked like just eye-balling him. After he was done running I sent a text message down to someone with a stopwatch to find out what they had him at because I thought he looked a little slower than Brian Carter and the message I got back was 4.6 Does it matter? No. If he trained for the 40 he would have run it faster but it doesn't matter anyway because there has never been a question about Vince's ability to move outside of the pocket.
As for his passing workout, I think Vince did a much better job than some expected. Jerry Rhome conducted the workout and he had FB Ahmard Hall, TE David Thomas, WR Brian Carter and friend of his named D.J. Smith (who actually looked pretty decent) as targets for Vince to throw to. Let me give you my bottom line first. I thought Vince had a solid passing workout and the thing that I was most interested in was his accuracy which was definitely there. While there were some questions left unanswered from the workout (I'll get to those later), I can't see how Vince could have possibly hurt himself with the workout.
Vince started with rollouts and playactions then went the short passing game, then to some intermediate routes, then to three long passes and then to a some 20+ sideline routes. Here is the exact assessment that I was writing down as the 40 minute passing workout progressed.
"Play action and short passes are very accurate with good zip. Swing passes and stop routes look good. Showing good accuracy so far. 20 yard crossing routes - 2 total - were just okay.... one was low and the WR had to wait on the other one. Great rapport with David Thomas. Good zip on his seam route to Thomas. Good accuracy on deep balls but average on the deep comebacks and on deep outs. Needs to get rid of the ball quicker on those routes and show more zip on those passes."
I came away relatively impressed but the very second scout I spoke with about Vince said that if he were a team scouting a QB (which his team won't be) that he would have been pissed at the workout because Jerry Rhome protected Vince too much and didn't have him throw enough deep crossing routes and deep outs. He scouts Texas and he said that he has enough film on Vince throwing in the short passing game and that what many teams wanted to see was Vince throw some passes that he didn't get to throw much in the NFL. The same scout also said that if teams are really interested in drafting Vince that they will work him out on their own and have him throw whatever they want him to so that individual workout would hold more importance than his Pro Day workout.
The other concern I heard was that Vince was throwing to a bunch of guys that don't have NFL caliber speed as wide receivers which is one of the knocks that people had about Alex Smith's workout last year. While Smith had a fantastic passing workout, he was throwing to guys who were 4.6 WRs. In this case, however, I don't really see any reason that Vince couldn't just make the proper adjustments once he started throwing to faster WRs.
I wanted to see good footwork and good accuracy and that is what he showed. Teams who need more questions answered will give him an individual workout and get their own answers. The comparisons to Michael Vick just don't fit for me because I think they are different QBs. Vick didn't have the same amount of experience that Young had in college wasn't as accurate as Vince was this year. Vince is much better at rolling out and throwing on the run while Vick clearly has a stronger arm. It wouldn't hurt for Vince to show a little more zip on his passes from time to time but his arm strength is definitely good enough.
In general, the combine and Pro Day workouts are nothing but little pieces of the puzzle that teams like to use but their results are typcially blown way out of proportion by fans and the media. While some teams definitely blow things out of proportion based on postseason workouts, the most notorious muck-rakers and second-guessing comes from the media. The film doesn't like and most players will ultimately be drafted based on how they played in college, how they fit into certain teams systems and whether or not they have severe character issues.
Michael Huff: Looked VERY explosive in his DB drills in terms of starting and stopping but he dropped too many balls. Still, he proved that he has the top-end speed that teams will look for in a CB. He'll be drafted within the top 12 picks. Huff came in at 197 which was 10 pounds lighter than he was at the combine which shows me that he wanted to improve his quickness even more in position drills to help his stock as a CB (more money than safeties).
Cedric Griffin: He was 202 pounds and is a big boy. He's not as quick as Huff in terms of starting and stopping but he looked pretty good in his position workouts and didn't drop many balls. Scouts believe he can play corner or free safety. Moving up the draft board and should be gone by the middle of the 2nd.
Jonathan Scott: Bench pressed 225 only 17 times which is disappointing but is also about what I expected. Stength is his weakness and will probably cause him to fall some in this draft but he showed great feet and quickness in his position drills. There are some questions about there about his toughness though. He needs time in an NFL weight room to get his strength up but he should end up in the late 2nd to early third round.
Rod Wright: He looks great physically. He has long arms and he's not a big fat guy at all. Well put together. I spoke with one scout after the workout and asked him how he looked since I was watching J. Scott and Will Allen workout and couldn't see Wright. His reply was "adequate".
David Thomas: He won't get past the third round. He looks great at 250 pounds and can probably play at about 255. His hands are exceptional and he was one of those guys whose draft stock was really helped out by having all of those teams in one place watching him catch passes from Vince. I didn't see him do anything but catch passes for Vince.
Will Allen: He looked okay. Nothing special. He's a hard worker but is limited as an athlete and he isn't the biggest guard in the world either. I still think he'll go later on the 2nd day of the draft.
Brian Carter: I've seen slower 40 times attributed to Carter by Gil Brandt than I personally received. I had someone with a watch that had Carter in the 4.47 range. Carter had a very athletic workout with a good vertical leap and he looked fairly quick in the passing drills.
Aaron Harris Harris ran very poorly in the 40 and weighed only 225. I don't see any way he gets drafted at this point.
I hope you enjoy the newsletter this week and remember that if you are receiving this email because someone forwarded it to you or if you know someone who would like to receive it, just email me at sidelineview@gmail.com and I'll add you on the distribution list. - Lance Zierlein
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Vince Young's Workout and Texas Pro Day / Lance Zierlein
=================================================================================================
I know that you can find a ton of different accounts and interpretations of Vince Young's workout but since I was able to see it in person I'll add my two cents as well as the opinions of NFL people I spoke with after the workout.
Vince Young was not scheduled to run the 40 yard dash and had not trained to run the 40 (why would he?) but he got excited while watching his teammates workout for the scouts and decided to run it once. The people I spike with who had watches on Vince had him from between 4.57 to 4.61 and truth be told, that is about what it looked like just eye-balling him. After he was done running I sent a text message down to someone with a stopwatch to find out what they had him at because I thought he looked a little slower than Brian Carter and the message I got back was 4.6 Does it matter? No. If he trained for the 40 he would have run it faster but it doesn't matter anyway because there has never been a question about Vince's ability to move outside of the pocket.
As for his passing workout, I think Vince did a much better job than some expected. Jerry Rhome conducted the workout and he had FB Ahmard Hall, TE David Thomas, WR Brian Carter and friend of his named D.J. Smith (who actually looked pretty decent) as targets for Vince to throw to. Let me give you my bottom line first. I thought Vince had a solid passing workout and the thing that I was most interested in was his accuracy which was definitely there. While there were some questions left unanswered from the workout (I'll get to those later), I can't see how Vince could have possibly hurt himself with the workout.
Vince started with rollouts and playactions then went the short passing game, then to some intermediate routes, then to three long passes and then to a some 20+ sideline routes. Here is the exact assessment that I was writing down as the 40 minute passing workout progressed.
"Play action and short passes are very accurate with good zip. Swing passes and stop routes look good. Showing good accuracy so far. 20 yard crossing routes - 2 total - were just okay.... one was low and the WR had to wait on the other one. Great rapport with David Thomas. Good zip on his seam route to Thomas. Good accuracy on deep balls but average on the deep comebacks and on deep outs. Needs to get rid of the ball quicker on those routes and show more zip on those passes."
I came away relatively impressed but the very second scout I spoke with about Vince said that if he were a team scouting a QB (which his team won't be) that he would have been pissed at the workout because Jerry Rhome protected Vince too much and didn't have him throw enough deep crossing routes and deep outs. He scouts Texas and he said that he has enough film on Vince throwing in the short passing game and that what many teams wanted to see was Vince throw some passes that he didn't get to throw much in the NFL. The same scout also said that if teams are really interested in drafting Vince that they will work him out on their own and have him throw whatever they want him to so that individual workout would hold more importance than his Pro Day workout.
The other concern I heard was that Vince was throwing to a bunch of guys that don't have NFL caliber speed as wide receivers which is one of the knocks that people had about Alex Smith's workout last year. While Smith had a fantastic passing workout, he was throwing to guys who were 4.6 WRs. In this case, however, I don't really see any reason that Vince couldn't just make the proper adjustments once he started throwing to faster WRs.
I wanted to see good footwork and good accuracy and that is what he showed. Teams who need more questions answered will give him an individual workout and get their own answers. The comparisons to Michael Vick just don't fit for me because I think they are different QBs. Vick didn't have the same amount of experience that Young had in college wasn't as accurate as Vince was this year. Vince is much better at rolling out and throwing on the run while Vick clearly has a stronger arm. It wouldn't hurt for Vince to show a little more zip on his passes from time to time but his arm strength is definitely good enough.
In general, the combine and Pro Day workouts are nothing but little pieces of the puzzle that teams like to use but their results are typcially blown way out of proportion by fans and the media. While some teams definitely blow things out of proportion based on postseason workouts, the most notorious muck-rakers and second-guessing comes from the media. The film doesn't like and most players will ultimately be drafted based on how they played in college, how they fit into certain teams systems and whether or not they have severe character issues.
Michael Huff: Looked VERY explosive in his DB drills in terms of starting and stopping but he dropped too many balls. Still, he proved that he has the top-end speed that teams will look for in a CB. He'll be drafted within the top 12 picks. Huff came in at 197 which was 10 pounds lighter than he was at the combine which shows me that he wanted to improve his quickness even more in position drills to help his stock as a CB (more money than safeties).
Cedric Griffin: He was 202 pounds and is a big boy. He's not as quick as Huff in terms of starting and stopping but he looked pretty good in his position workouts and didn't drop many balls. Scouts believe he can play corner or free safety. Moving up the draft board and should be gone by the middle of the 2nd.
Jonathan Scott: Bench pressed 225 only 17 times which is disappointing but is also about what I expected. Stength is his weakness and will probably cause him to fall some in this draft but he showed great feet and quickness in his position drills. There are some questions about there about his toughness though. He needs time in an NFL weight room to get his strength up but he should end up in the late 2nd to early third round.
Rod Wright: He looks great physically. He has long arms and he's not a big fat guy at all. Well put together. I spoke with one scout after the workout and asked him how he looked since I was watching J. Scott and Will Allen workout and couldn't see Wright. His reply was "adequate".
David Thomas: He won't get past the third round. He looks great at 250 pounds and can probably play at about 255. His hands are exceptional and he was one of those guys whose draft stock was really helped out by having all of those teams in one place watching him catch passes from Vince. I didn't see him do anything but catch passes for Vince.
Will Allen: He looked okay. Nothing special. He's a hard worker but is limited as an athlete and he isn't the biggest guard in the world either. I still think he'll go later on the 2nd day of the draft.
Brian Carter: I've seen slower 40 times attributed to Carter by Gil Brandt than I personally received. I had someone with a watch that had Carter in the 4.47 range. Carter had a very athletic workout with a good vertical leap and he looked fairly quick in the passing drills.
Aaron Harris Harris ran very poorly in the 40 and weighed only 225. I don't see any way he gets drafted at this point.
