In hindsight, was O'Brien's decision in not pulling Hoyer in the Wildcard game pure genius

[thunderkyss]

1st of all, i didn't say the bolded...i said many on here said that.
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Point taken

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If...Andrew Luck is healthy, possibility we don't win the division & we don't make the playoffs

If....Tyler Eifert doesn't catch a bad case of the dropsies, we probably don't win that monday night game against the bengals.

If we don't take bad losses to Mia, Buf & ATL throughout the season, maybe i'd think we were a better team.

If Ryan Mallet had accuracy & an alarm clock, he could be a franchise qb & we're not stuck with Hoyer.

If, If, If....i truly can do this all day if you'd like.

our offense vs. anyone's defense except the Jags & Titans was a joke & the fact that you think TJ Yates would've somehow made this huge difference is a joke. I respect what he's done as a texan, but damn dude you're way out of touch with how good he actually is.

The only if I have is Brian Hoyer not starting against KC in the Wild Card game. Everything else is what it is. The only reason I have that if... is, well... that's what we're talking about.

& yes, our offense was a joke against most other teams. But their offenses were just as helpless against our defense.

It's like you expect our team to be perfect, knowing full well there's probably one or two perfect teams out there. Our defense held KC's offense to 6 points through three qtrs... that game was winnable. All we needed was a QB who could stop turning the ball over. That's all I expected from Tj or Weeden.

 

[Texian]

Hindsight shows what we already knew, O'Brien really doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to his quarterbacks.

 

[Mr teX]

Point taken




The only if I have is Brian Hoyer not starting against KC in the Wild Card game. Everything else is what it is. The only reason I have that if... is, well... that's what we're talking about.

& yes, our offense was a joke against most other teams. But their offenses were just as helpless against our defense.

It's like you expect our team to be perfect, knowing full well there's probably one or two perfect teams out there. Our defense held KC's offense to 6 points through three qtrs... that game was winnable. All we needed was a QB who could stop turning the ball over. That's all I expected from Tj or Weeden.

I dont expect it to be perfect, I expect it to be able to put up at least 20 pts consistently...which we couldn't do against anyone last year except the jags and titans.

Yeah sure the defense held them to 6 pts through 3, great. but the score was 13-0...which seeing as we could only score an average of 13 pts against all 4 playoff teams we faced that year, it was pretty much a death sentence. Those 4 starts also account for starting performances by Hoyer, Mallet and your beloved Yates.

And if you're truly being honest, that average of 13 pts is TREMENDOUSLY inflated b/c much of the scoring that that average is comprised of happened in garbage time when the games outcomes were not in doubt.

Even in losses the steelers were hanging way more than that on defenses..& we'd seen what our defense looked like against a top level qb when we played the patriots..not good.

 

[Texecutioner]

This thread is such a fail to even suggest this.

 

[Texecutioner]

Lol, Brian Hoyer as opposed to who????

Brandon Weeden & all of his 1 win on the season & 3-8790797 record as a starter...with no starts in the playoffs?...look eerily similar to Hoyer's record.
TJ Yates? well, we weren't playing the Bengals so there's that.

I just think you guys are beating your head against the wall for nothing. What's funny is that many on here claiming that we could've won the game with just better qb play are the same folks that say we weren't a good team....... we were just lucky & backed into the playoffs due to a trash division. KC was the better team & they'd been the better team all year. They'd shown it in the reg. season & they showed it in the playoffs. End of story. Yes the game was 13-0 in the 3rd qtr. but lets be clear here, #1, "better" qb play wasn't there to be had on the roster. #2, we couldn't do **** on offense b/c we literally had no offensive threats outside of Hopkins. Yeah, you play to win the game........................................which is why OB reached into his bag of tricks & stuck Watt & Wilfork at HB/FB to try to force a score........................FAIL. #3, there defense wasn't exactly garbage either.

We had nothing for KC & the only reason why it was as close as it was early in the 3rd imo was b/c we'd played them early in the season, Maclin was banged up & didn't really play all that much & due to the NFL's silly ass rules we got the game at home. Sadly, it would've been worse had we faced Pitt.

Do us all a favor and just stop wasting your time trying to defend the ridiculousness that was OB to start Hoyer when Weeden had a hot hand that was slowly gaining chemistry. The team was responding well to him. Sure he wasn't some great new starter, but the Texans had adjusted to his style of leadership and his intangibles both good and bad and were playing pretty well with all things considered.

I don't think that people are all that peeved about the decision to start Hoyer since he had been the guy for most of the year and had more experience in the offense, but OB's refusal to pull him after he continued to pile on mistakes that the defense couldn't salvage. OB had no intention what so ever to make a change, and was rolling the dice on Hoyer regardless of early game outcomes, the team's energy, or Hoyer's effectiveness. OB's attitude was that of a coach that was to stubborn to make adjustments on that day, and he failed the team as the coach "on that day." OB wasn't typically like that though, and his options were all pretty limited and poor either way, but Hoyer never should have had that kind of leash at that point in time in a loser goes home game.

I like OB, and I don't think that he is that type of coach often. I think he makes adjustments and his generally pretty effective giving what he has had the last two years, but in that playoff game he failed to give his team a strong chance to win that game.

 

[Hervoyel]

Emanuel Lewis could have been our back up QB & it would have made more sense to start him.

Severely underrated as a QB. In the right system I'm not saying "Super Bowl" but........ Super Bowl.

 

[Mr teX]

Do us all a favor and just stop wasting your time trying to defend the ridiculousness that was OB to start Hoyer when Weeden had a hot hand that was slowly gaining chemistry. The team was responding well to him. Sure he wasn't some great new starter, but the Texans had adjusted to his style of leadership and his intangibles both good and bad and were playing pretty well with all things considered.

I don't think that people are all that peeved about the decision to start Hoyer since he had been the guy for most of the year and had more experience in the offense, but OB's refusal to pull him after he continued to pile on mistakes that the defense couldn't salvage. OB had no intention what so ever to make a change, and was rolling the dice on Hoyer regardless of early game outcomes, the team's energy, or Hoyer's effectiveness. OB's attitude was that of a coach that was to stubborn to make adjustments on that day, and he failed the team as the coach "on that day." OB wasn't typically like that though, and his options were all pretty limited and poor either way, but Hoyer never should have had that kind of leash at that point in time in a loser goes home game.

I like OB, and I don't think that he is that type of coach often. I think he makes adjustments and his generally pretty effective giving what he has had the last two years, but in that playoff game he failed to give his team a strong chance to win that game.

Lol the dude played 1/2 of 1 game..give me a break on the hot hand and chemistry nonsense. Besides that The team had and has had musical chairs at the qb position for the last 2 years. adjusting to different styles of qb play had already become a way of life for them.

For me, This isn't about defending OB's decision to keep him in...whatever. it's about whether or not the odds dramatically change with TJ Yates Or Weeden playing as opposed to Hoyer.

And As I pointed out upthread, our offense's performance throughout the year against playoff teams with starts/playing time from all those guys suggest no, it likely wouldn't have. Obviously it would've made many of you guys feel better, but making you feel better doesn't equal better chance to win.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Hey at least I know what the answer is to "Worst QB performance in history" is! Yay it opened the door for :sigh: Osweiler. It isnt like this team was picking up a '12 Peyton Manning or anything. Optimism is beautiful thing, but it is okay to have doubts too before all the po'd responses start pouring in. QB has been the red headed step child of this franchise, and it may very well still be; we will know very soon.

 

[Texecutioner]

Lol the dude played 1/2 of 1 game..give me a break on the hot hand and chemistry nonsense. Besides that The team had and has had musical chairs at the qb position for the last 2 years. adjusting to different styles of qb play had already become a way of life for them.

For me, This isn't about defending OB's decision to keep him in...whatever. it's about whether or not the odds dramatically change with TJ Yates Or Weeden playing as opposed to Hoyer.

And As I pointed out upthread, our offense's performance throughout the year against playoff teams with starts/playing time from all those guys suggest no, it likely wouldn't have. Obviously it would've made many of you guys feel better, but making you feel better doesn't equal better chance to win.

You cannot argue that it wouldn't have given us a better chance of winning when Hoyer who was already considered really bad put out one of the worst playoff performances in NFL history. The Texans I think were the first team not to record a score ever or something like that. Yes, those guys would have given the Texans a considerable better chance at winning.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

There's no 1 way in how successful people think. KD's at the top of his profession, His drive to win a championship at all costs led him to do what he did this offseason...something he's more or less been villified for by other driven individuals in profession.

I never said anything about successful people. What I said is someone at the top of their profession. More specifically someone in a profession that's all about competition.

I guarantee you the coach of the team you think is the worst in the league is not coaching to reach his team's perceived level of wins and anything else is gravy.

Come on. Let's be real here. NFL coaches are NFL coaches b cause they DONT think like that. You know what they think?

"You think we can only win this level of games....ill f'n show you"

But anyways I'll bow out here. I'll just leave it as I do not believe OB was thinking the way you think he was.

 

[El Tejano]

So I don't think it was genius on O'Briens part to not pull Hoyer. In fact, I would say that the genius move would've been to throw in Weeden:
1. It was a winnable game through 3 quarters
2. Hopkins was even asking to have Hoyer pulled
3. If there was a team that could've adapted to a QB switch, it was the 2015 Houston Texans, they were doing it all year long.
4. Perhaps KC didn't prepare for Brandon Weeden and he gives us just enough points to win the game.
5. What else were we gonna do? Lose the game?
6. The fact I could give 5 reasons is all we need to see that a qb switch would've been warranted.

I will agree that it may have been the best thing in the long run due to:
1. Say Weeden goes in, pulls off a playoff win...now we have to wait and see if O'Brien will keep Weeden in or put Hoyer back in the next week.
2. Say Weeden played the next week and had a really great game in either a win or loss....guess what team is passing up on a better QB this past offseason? That's right The Texans.....AGAIN.

So I can't say it was O'Brien's "Geniusness" that made Hoyer's playoff fail a better long term deal for the Texans but it did drive home the point that this team needs a QB (even if that point was driven to O'Brien himself and/or Mr. Mcnair who has stated in the past you don't need an elite QB to win championships) if we want to get to the next level of NFL playoff/championship football.

 

[Mangler]

So I don't think it was genius on O'Briens part to not pull Hoyer. In fact, I would say that the genius move would've been to throw in Weeden:
1. It was a winnable game through 3 quarters
2. Hopkins was even asking to have Hoyer pulled
3. If there was a team that could've adapted to a QB switch, it was the 2015 Houston Texans, they were doing it all year long.
4. Perhaps KC didn't prepare for Brandon Weeden and he gives us just enough points to win the game.
5. What else were we gonna do? Lose the game?
6. The fact I could give 5 reasons is all we need to see that a qb switch would've been warranted.

I will agree that it may have been the best thing in the long run due to:
1. Say Weeden goes in, pulls off a playoff win...now we have to wait and see if O'Brien will keep Weeden in or put Hoyer back in the next week.
2. Say Weeden played the next week and had a really great game in either a win or loss....guess what team is passing up on a better QB this past offseason? That's right The Texans.....AGAIN.

So I can't say it was O'Brien's "Geniusness" that made Hoyer's playoff fail a better long term deal for the Texans but it did drive home the point that this team needs a QB (even if that point was driven to O'Brien himself and/or Mr. Mcnair who has stated in the past you don't need an elite QB to win championships) if we want to get to the next level of NFL playoff/championship football.

This is what I was talking about. You know, before some tried "reading between the lines" a little too hard. I really do believe had Hoyer been pulled and Weeden did just enough to pull out a win, we would probably still have Hoyer on the roster as a backup, and Weeden as the starter until he eventually failed us. The cycle would have continued. I think that blowout loss may end up being a blessing in disguise. (If Osweiler does his job, and the rookies step up.)

 

[JB]

This is what I was talking about. You know, before some tried "reading between the lines" a little too hard. I really do believe had Hoyer been pulled and Weeden did just enough to pull out a win, we would probably still have Hoyer on the roster as a backup, and Weeden as the starter until he eventually failed us. The cycle would have continued. I think that blowout loss may end up being a blessing in disguise. (If Osweiler does his job, and the rookies step up.)

Still trying to throw stones and still refusing to own your own post. Stay classy dude

 

[infantrycak]

This is what I was talking about. You know, before some tried "reading between the lines" a little too hard. I really do believe had Hoyer been pulled and Weeden did just enough to pull out a win, we would probably still have Hoyer on the roster as a backup, and Weeden as the starter until he eventually failed us. The cycle would have continued. I think that blowout loss may end up being a blessing in disguise. (If Osweiler does his job, and the rookies step up.)

Assuming your surmise, it still doesn't spell genius.

 

[thunderkyss]

This is what I was talking about. You know, before some tried "reading between the lines" a little too hard. I really do believe had Hoyer been pulled and Weeden did just enough to pull out a win, we would probably still have Hoyer on the roster as a backup, and Weeden as the starter until he eventually failed us. The cycle would have continued. I think that blowout loss may end up being a blessing in disguise. (If Osweiler does his job, and the rookies step up.)

If Hoyer was pulled a second time against KC & remaimed a back up making $6M (or whatever) that would only prove Bob McNair is an idi0t for not firing O'b. It shouldn't take 4 turnovers & a 30-0 loss to determine a guy shouldn't be in this league.


Then again, we brought him in to start after our team deconstructed him in 2015 like he was Blake Bortles.... so you may be right.

 

[Mangler]

Still trying to throw stones and still refusing to own your own post. Stay classy dude

Not throwing anything, and you should probably take your own advice. Moving along, what makes you believe that the Wildcard blowout loss at home, due to our offense, has nothing to do with the moves that were made this offseason?

Sure, none of us know what was going through O'Brien's head during the game, but if the entire crowd was chanting "We want Weeden!" (I was there sitting on the third row. I spent almost $4,000 on the tickets, with the food and drinks included, as much as that embarrasses me to admit.) don't you think the thought had to have crossed O'Brien's mind? I truly think he left Hoyer in there to get the point across to whoever he had to, which I'm pretty sure it was either to Smith or McNair. It's just my opinion, not saying it's a fact.

 

[JB]

Not throwing anything, and you should probably take your own advice. Moving along, what makes you believe that the Wildcard blowout loss at home, due to our offense, has nothing to do with the moves that were made this offseason?

Sure, none of us know what was going through O'Brien's head during the game, but if the entire crowd was chanting "We want Weeden!" (I was there sitting on the third row. I spent almost $4,000 on the tickets, with the food and drinks included, as much as that embarrasses me to admit.) don't you think the thought had to have crossed O'Brien's mind? I truly think he left Hoyer in there to get the point across to whoever he had to, which I'm pretty sure it was either to Smith or McNair. It's just my opinion, not saying it's a fact.

I never said that or even implied that. You threw stones at me earlier when I responded to the phantom post you claimed never to post, basically calling me a liar. I think the entire season led to the moves that were made in the offseason. I don't think that any of the moves that OB made were so that later people could call him a genius after calling him a dumbass at the time. Dumbass moves are dumbass moves, nothing he has done since could be called a "genius" move at this point in time

 

[corytx8]

Sticks and Stones may break bones?


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[KA4Texan]

Sticks and Stones may break bones?


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[corytx8]

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[chicagotexan2]

The only thing more more ingenious than playing hoyer at qb and letting him throw 5 INTs in a play off game is the Browns trading up to draft Manziel so they could let him flame out in spectacular fashion so they could start Robert griffin III.

 

[chicagotexan2]

The only thing more more ingenious than playing hoyer at qb and letting him throw 4 INTs in a play off game is the Browns trading up to draft Manziel so they could let him flame out in spectacular fashion so they could start Robert griffin III.

 

[chicagotexan2]

Bud light needs to bring back the real men of genius commercials.

Real men of genius - bud light salutes you Mr. I'm gonna let our lousy QB who padded his stats in games where you were getting blown out by 40 points in the 4th quarter and letting him start a playoff game where he throws 4 INTS so you could make a point to ownership about how the QB situation should be addressed even though you're the one that brought him in and named him the starter.

 

[EVOLVIST]

O'Brien was most certainly a genius in this case.

Knowing that we would play the Bear's division this year, O'Brien deliberately fed Hoyer misinformation all year, last year, about how to run the offense.

Having given Hoyer a different playbook he insured that Hoyer would fail, knowing that the only team dumb enough to take him off of our hands would be the Bears.

So, when Hoyer tells the Bears everything about our offense, the Bears will actually have no clue, insuring us a victory.

Genius!

 

[Thorsson]

That was without a doubt the worst post season performance of any NFL QB that I've ever seen!

With Hoyer, the Texans had no chance to beat the Chiefs. With Weeden, the Texans had a good chance to win. Weeden can throw the deep ball and hit a receiver in stride, whereas Hoyer can't do that. This isn't rocket science, folks.

 

[JamTex]

It was a roll of the dice. Had the Texans managed to win that game against the Chiefs, the front office and O'brien may have still perceived the team needing more speed on offense, but would they havce gone after Osweiler as hard as they did? Would they have drafted like they did? Would they have gone after L Miller? We'll never know. It was a blessing they lost that game so that everyone in the organization would see the glaring weaknesses that we as fans already saw. Let's just be thankful that things turned out the way they did. Let's hope all the off season moves turn out to be the right moves. We shall see soon enough.
Genius on O'briens part? I don't think so. The dice just rolled his way.