Why were we only able to hold our opponents to under 20 points twice in the last 8 games?
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Why were we only able to hold our opponents to under 20 points twice in the last 8 games?
The loss of Eugene Wilson... then, of Dom Barber, which led to the return of Busing/Brian Russell.
And, are defense wasn't "so good"... it was just much better.
Week 9 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 11 Titans season scoring average 22ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 12 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 35 that week
Week 13 Jags season scoring average 18ppg - scored 23 that week
Week 16 Dolphins season scoring average 22.5ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 17 Patriots season scoring average 27ppg - scored 27 that week
So out of the 6 games we're looking at here, only 2 times did the team score more than their season average.
In 3 of those games, the opponent's performance was below average because they did not meet their average points per game.
And lets not forget that half of these games were quarterbacked by future hall of famers who are top 7 all time at their position.
This...there's really only 1 time in that span where you can say we blew it & that was against the jags b/c not only did we lose that game, they scored more than their season average. Indy dropping 35 on us with that offense & an all-time great under center in his prime....nothing to be ashamed about.
Week 9 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 11 Titans season scoring average 22ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 12 Indy season scoring average 26ppg - scored 35 that week
Week 13 Jags season scoring average 18ppg - scored 23 that week
Week 16 Dolphins season scoring average 22.5ppg - scored 20 that week
Week 17 Patriots season scoring average 27ppg - scored 27 that week
So out of the 6 games we're looking at here, only 2 times did the team score more than their season average.
In 3 of those games, the opponent's performance was below average because they did not meet their average points per game.
And lets not forget that half of these games were quarterbacked by future hall of famers who are top 7 all time at their position.
I agree that a good number of those quarterbacks are beyond outstanding.
That beings said, the title of the post concerns our defense being "so good," and these statistics are for average points scored. Average is "so-so," not "so good."
I am not hating on our defense, but from what you have here, I see that we kept 3 of these offenses below their average, and two of those were only held 2 and 2.5 points below their average (we held the Colts 6 points below their average the first time we played). Again, average and "so good" are not the same thing.
That being said, the point made earlier about losing personnel was a big factor, I think, especially when we are talking about losing safeties against elite quarterbacks.
I agree, I've said all along the 2nd Jags game this year was our worst showing on defense in probably all of Kubiak's tenure. Bernard Pollard was the only guy to travel to Jacksonville that weekend. The rest of the defense had their head's up their asses back in Houston.
Average and so good aren't the same thing yes. But the context of the original post seems to imply "we think we're this good improving defense but we're not" and the facts of the 8 game stretch in question seem to imply the opposite.
Well obviously the season was what it was but I think the first three games were an aberration on the season for the D. Take them out and the Texans allowed 19 ppg over the last 13 games which would have had them in 8th. You can go a long way with a top 5 passing attack, top 10 scoring D if they can just get decent at rushing.
I had to sit through those first 3 effing games. They counted just as much as the other 14 so I can't just take those stats and throw them out because they don't jive with how the defense was the rest of the season.
One thing though, I did see improvement, but we still did ourselves dirty a lot over the course of the season. Be it not stopping the opposition on a half or game ending drive, to just giving up dumb yardage when we are holding a team down, we need to improve.
I think what pissed me off the most was 3rd down passing situations last year.
I can easily throw those first 3 games out of the window...
First off, we had a brand new defensive coordinator and defensive scheme.
Second, we were making mistakes that kids in Pop Warner football don't even make
Third, we drastically elevated the talent after those first 3 games (Cushing & Quinn got better and Pollard took Bushing off the field)
Sorry you don't go from being the worst the worst run defense through the first 3 games, to being the NFL's second best run defense through the final 13 games just by chance. Another thing the OP needs to remember is we were 4th in overall defense throughout the entire season as soon as Pollard started....how's that for numbers?
Average and so good aren't the same thing yes. But the context of the original post seems to imply "we think we're this good improving defense but we're not" and the facts of the 8 game stretch in question seem to imply the opposite.
and the QB doesn't have double digit INT's.
How many offseasons are we going to cherry pick defensive stats to prove that we had "an awesome defense that is turning the corner"? I'm just tired of having to say "Well if you toss out this performance and this performance we were badass!" or "after week __ we played lights out!".
How many offseasons are we going to cherry pick defensive stats to prove that we had "an awesome defense that is turning the corner"? I'm just tired of having to say "Well if you toss out this performance and this performance we were badass!" or "after week __ we played lights out!".
How many offseasons are we going to cherry pick defensive stats to prove that we had "an awesome defense that is turning the corner"? I'm just tired of having to say "Well if you toss out this performance and this performance we were badass!" or "after week __ we played lights out!".
Look guys I'm like you, I want our defense to be improved. But I want it to be that way where we can look at the season as a whole without having to throw out 3 of the most horrific defensive performances we've seen in awhile.
The second thing is, and I'm not trying to slam TC because she does great legwork with numbers and whatnot, but this is something that we as a messageboard have done before, which is talk about the defense improving despite horrible showings. I'm just at the point right now where the defense needs to prove to me that it has turned the corner, not give me a case of the ol bluegnads.
I do think that they did better over the course of the seasons, but at the same time, our inexplicably bad starts can also be attributed to the defense needing to find it's feet. Again, I'm saying that if we're still having to "throw out certain games" to prove to ourselves that the defense is doing good then we haven't gotten there yet.
I do think that they did better over the course of the seasons, but at the same time, our inexplicably bad starts can also be attributed to the defense needing to find it's feet. Again, I'm saying that if we're still having to "throw out certain games" to prove to ourselves that the defense is doing good then we haven't gotten there yet.
b0ng I just feel it necessary to let you know that in this thread you have managed to make CarrBombed look like an optimist. You're out Debbie Downering the king of cynacism. Very impressive.
Look guys I'm like you, I want our defense to be improved. But I want it to be that way where we can look at the season as a whole without having to throw out 3 of the most horrific defensive performances we've seen in awhile.
The second thing is, and I'm not trying to slam TC because she does great legwork with numbers and whatnot, but this is something that we as a messageboard have done before, which is talk about the defense improving despite horrible showings. I'm just at the point right now where the defense needs to prove to me that it has turned the corner, not give me a case of the ol bluegnads.
I do think that they did better over the course of the seasons, but at the same time, our inexplicably bad starts can also be attributed to the defense needing to find it's feet. Again, I'm saying that if we're still having to "throw out certain games" to prove to ourselves that the defense is doing good then we haven't gotten there yet.
When did I ever become the "King of cynacism"?
I'm a realist.....I'm neither a "debbie downer" or a "optimist"
All I know is that when the defense had to stop the Tacks on MNF or the Jags in Jacksonville they didn't get the job done and that's throwing out the 1st 3 games.
In the Titans game they were in position to make plays (thanks Dunta) and against the Jags, if they could just run the ball a damn yard, we wouldn't even be talking about the defense (lets not let the offense off the hook here...they're the ones that really cost us in those games, not to mention our damn kicker who killed us all season long)
I'm waiting for the companion thread "If our offense is so good...". Followed by the inevitable "If our head coach is so good...".
I'm waiting for the companion thread "If our offense is so good...". Followed by the inevitable "If our head coach is so good...".
Those three horrific performances were mainly do to assignment errors.....when they were corrected and we added a little bit more talent, the defense changed.
YOU CAN THROW those 3 games out of the window, because for the next 13 straight games the defense played consistently good. And it's not cherry picking either. Cherry picking is randomly picking games.......not when you take into account 13 straight games after a team made adjustments and added new starters. I mean your argument would be like if Matt Schaub missed three games and our offense sucked when Grossman was in there and then acting like those 3 games would be a reflection on how the offense was when Matt was playing the final 13 games.
The defense was a totally different defense once Pollard started and the team made the necessary adjustments.
Finally, we didn't play consistently good defense down the stretch of 13 games. We played really good defense for most of those games but we still let Henne pass for 300+ yards, we still let Chris Johnson run up 151 yards on us, and we still let the Colts crappy running game get over 100 yards on us on the ground.
When this season starts back up I'm still going to fear playing our 3 division rivals because we still have this Jekyll and Hyde act going for us. Color me unconvinced even if we do throw out the games that make one side of the ball look extremely terrible.
These are good points to argue. Forget about throwing out the first three games. Even when throwing them out, You see inconsistent play, and to add to the statistical evidence you threw out there, we also allowed 20 or more points in all but 3 games (if I remember right) over the last 8 games.
What gives?
No, cherry picking would be taking any evidence that is contrary to the point you're making, and throwing it out.
I've really noticed that our defense plays off of how well our offense does. If we are going up and down the field (even only pulling down 3's in some cases) and keeping the ball our D comes out and does pretty well. It's just that once we start having 3 and outs or turnovers they get spooked and start breaking down.
At this point, you can slice and dice them pretty much any way you want. You're using historical performance/statistics to predict future performance, and while I can't say I know of anything better, the fact is it's fun, and nothing more. Consider that you have people who are using that performance and those statistics to show that the Defense (or Offense, or Coaches, or player) is not as good as record/perception/sunshine clubbers on this board would have you believe, and other people using the same performance and statistics to show that the Defense (or Offense, or Coaches, or player) is actually much better than the record/perception/haters on this board would have you believe.
To say you can't throw out the first three games was valid while the '09 season was going on because at the end it, those three games counted, and the fact that we lost 2 of them (In no small part because of a poor defensive effort) turned out to have a pretty detrimental effect on the overall season.
To say you can't throw them out at this point in time is silly. First, the whole thing is mostly a crapshoot, and I know of no rules about this, so analyze the way you want. Secondly, they're last years games, and the first three have the exact same impact on next year as the last 13, and that would be none. But if you are going to predict future performance based on the past, I do think it's reasonable to recognize that from a yardage standpoint, the last 13 games of the year were very different than the first three. The last thing I'll say is this - if the historically bad defense had been games 1-13 and the average (from a scoring standpoint) and above average (from a yardage standpoint) games had been games 14-16, absolutely nobody (hater or sunshiner) would be putting any stock whatsoever in those final three games (because we'd all be arguing about whether the Texans made the right pick as their new HC), so I think it's somewhat hypocritical to put much stock in the first three games now.
Why were we only able to hold our opponents to under 20 points twice in the last 8 games?