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How would you rank the following units of the Houston Texans based on your 2023 expectations?

I understand we’re trying to make it “Texans relevant” but if it’s “draft talk” I’m moving this thread to the college football area
 
Buckeye Homer said:
Marvin Jr. would be a dream! He's got Hall of Fame written all over him. For that to happen I think Cleveland has to be in the bottom two, record wise, along with Phoenix. Otherwise, Brock Bowers would also be an OUTSTANDING pick!
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I'm thinking the qbs go 1 and 2. Harrison, Bowers and Verse go 3rd through 5th. But it's way early.
 
Buckeye Homer said:
Offensive line - Better. Expect improvement in the interior positions.
Tight ends - Better. Now have a proven target in the middle of the field.
Wide Receivers - Better. More upside but still have vet presence.
Running Backs - Better. Viable RB2.
Quarterbacks - Better. talent upgrade + vet presence in QB room.
Defensive line - Much better. True edge presence combined with vet run stoppers in middle.
Linebackers - Better. Upgraded vet talent level while adding young talent.
Secondary - Better. True vet leader in secondary. Expected improvement in young players.
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Ranking units against each other seems a pointless exercise to me. So I've compared each unit to the 2022 Texans version. Result? Better, across the board. Which group will have the biggest impact? Hard to say. Not having a RB2 last year crippled game plans. Not having linemen that can hold their gaps forced DBs into making too many tackles (and tackle attempts). I don't expect to see anything more than learning to gel early in the season. I expect to see a team playing .500 ball or better in the 2nd half.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm thinking the qbs go 1 and 2. Harrison, Bowers and Verse go 3rd through 5th. But it's way early.
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I was looking at a mock that had Bowers going #15. Of course, the same mock predicts Houston to be abysmal and for Arizona to have the top two picks to take Caleb and Marvin. I think the writer was smoking peyote if he thinks Houston is going to be one of the worst two teams in the NFL. The more I look at the team and the coaches the more convinced I am that Houston is going to have a very solid year as in 10 wins.

Shall I pass the Koolaid?
 
Lucky said:
Ranking units against each other seems a pointless exercise to me. So I've compared each unit to the 2022 Texans version. Result? Better, across the board. Which group will have the biggest impact? Hard to say. Not having a RB2 last year crippled game plans. Not having linemen that can hold their gaps forced DBs into making too many tackles (and tackle attempts). I don't expect to see anything more than learning to gel early in the season. I expect to see a team playing .500 ball or better in the 2nd half.
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Having a healthy Metchie would be huge for the offense. He was a difference maker at Bama. I read that he remains "questionable" for the opener.
 
Brandon Croce of the Toro Times just posted an article on 5 biggest strengths of Texan roster (did not copy and paste) too many pop ups) or use any of his text. Also feel he failed to include LB position but that’s just my opinion. Point is improvement expected and progress duly noted. What are your thoughts on most improved positions on this team (not including QB, but you can if you feel the need, like I did with linebackers)?

1. Offensive Tackle - Bookend tackles in place.
2. Running Back - led by Damion Pierce and free agent former Bills RB Devin Singletary.
3. Defensive End - While I believe designating Will Anderson as DE more about his positional value and what that pays to equal his draft slot, it will be something to watch with great anticipation how DeMeco implements him. Can he be our Nick Bosa? Mix in a little from 4th rounder Dylan Horton and a healthy veteran Jerry Hughes, Texans will be improved.
4. Cornerback - this all hinges on health. Obviously starts with last years #3 overall pick but Steven Nelson actually played quite well. Desmond King (former Charger) is a solid experienced veteran, throw in Shaquill Griffin (former Seahawk) and Texans should have more stops and takeaways (would target corner early again in next years draft).
5. Safety - Jimmy Ward & Jalen Pitre combo. Youth and experience that fortify’s cornerbacks as well as linebackers.

Speaking of linebacker, if I could include Will Anderson Jr, a limited portion of snaps, this group to me makes the biggest jump forward hence the most improved positional group on Texans and it doesn’t hurt, with DeMeco Ryans being Head Coach. Texans have a break-out electric quick LB from last years draft (injured most of season) Christian Harris now pairing him with a rock solid leader, 5th rd. LB Henry To’oto’o. Denzel Perryman (former Charger, they miss him) will anchor the group. Expect run defense to dramatically improve.
 
OL is number one strength of team. Whether you’re breaking down the position groups by OTs or OL as a whole this is the best unit on the team. And that is good for a shiny new rookie QB.

Where do we rank ST? How much value due we put on the unit given the NFL’s further tinkering with the rules to limit the impact of ST on the game? The Texans have an elite ST unit just at the time the NFL is taking it out of the game.

Then from there it is in the eye of the beholder. Is it RBs? Or is the devaluing of the position make this group drop down the list? I’m very happy with the RB room at any rate.

Secondary and DL stick out to me as strengths of this team. Both groups have the blue chip prospect (Anderson and Stingley). Both groups have solid depth and steady veterans. I put secondary above DL due to Pitre being a stud who qualifies as a blue chipper imo. Stingley’s injury question mark is dampened by Pitre’s emergence as a playmaker. Will Anderson is the best player on the defense day one. I can go back and forth on where to rank them. But I am very happy with both groups.

The other positions depend a lot on projection. LB should be a strength given DeMeco’s track record developing players at the position. If Perryman is healthy they have an elite run stopper at MLB and the sky is the limit with Christian Harris’ athleticism. They should be able to unearth a gem whether its Littleton having a year like he did when he was an all pro under son of Bum… or To’o To’o outplaying his draft status like Fred Warner (3rd), Dre Greenlaw (5th) and Al-Shaiir (UDFA) all did under DeMeco.

TE should be a strength with a top 10 TE in Schultz but the unit lacks depth. If Schultz goes down its the biggest weakness on the team.

WR has a bunch of question marks. Can Nico stay healthy? Can Woods turn back the clock and prove he’s still the player he was with the Rams? Can Metchie make a full recovery? Will Dell be able to produce despite his size in the NFL? I’d sure like a few of those questions to be answered with a resounding YES!

Then there is QB…
 
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Thanks for merging. Was referencing article that came out June 8th.

Everybody has differing opinions which is fine. We will see who is right by end of season.


Lucky said:
Ranking units against each other seems a pointless exercise to me. So I've compared each unit to the 2022 Texans version. Result? Better, across the board. Which group will have the biggest impact? Hard to say. Not having a RB2 last year crippled game plans. Not having linemen that can hold their gaps forced DBs into making too many tackles (and tackle attempts). I don't expect to see anything more than learning to gel early in the season. I expect to see a team playing .500 ball or better in the 2nd half.
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In that case, this whole board is pointless. Thanks again for insight.
 
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TheRealJoker said:
OL is number one strength of team. Whether you’re breaking down the position groups by OTs or OL as a whole this is the best unit on the team. And that is good for a shiny new rookie QB.

Where do we rank ST? How much value due we put on the unit given the NFL’s further tinkering with the rules to limit the impact of ST on the game? The Texans have an elite ST unit just at the time the NFL is taking it out of the game.

Then from there it is in the eye of the beholder. Is it RBs? Or is the devaluing of the position make this group drop down the list? I’m very happy with the RB room at any rate.

Secondary and DL stick out to me as strengths of this team. Both groups have the blue chip prospect (Anderson and Stingley). Both groups have solid depth and steady veterans. I put secondary above DL due to Pitre being a stud who qualifies as a blue chipper imo. Stingley’s injury question mark is dampened by Pitre’s emergence as a playmaker. Will Anderson is the best player on the defense day one. I can go back and forth on where to rank them. But I am very happy with both groups.

The other positions depend a lot on projection. LB should be a strength given DeMeco’s track record developing players at the position. If Perryman is healthy they have an elite run stopper at MLB and the sky is the limit with Christian Harris’ athleticism. They should be able to unearth a gem whether its Littleton having a year like he did when he was an all pro under son of Bum… or To’o To’o outplaying his draft status like Fred Warner (3rd), Dre Greenlaw (5th) and Al-Shaiir (UDFA) all did under DeMeco.

TE should be a strength with a top 10 TE in Schultz but the unit lacks depth. If Schultz goes down its the biggest weakness on the team.

WR has a bunch of question marks. Can Nico stay healthy? Can Woods turn back the clock and prove he’s still the player he was with the Rams? Can Metchie make a full recovery? Will Dell be able to produce despite his size in the NFL? I’d sure like a few of those questions to be answered with a resounding YES!

Then there is QB…
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The defense should be much better this yr, due to talent that has been added and Ryans running the defense. I see LB as the biggest weakness, but I think Ryans can coach them up. The depth at S is also a concern.
 
Buckeye Homer said:
PFF ranked Houston's receiving unit as the worst in the league. I think they're going to be wrong.

www.pff.com

2023 NFL receiving corps rankings: Cincinnati Bengals take the top spot for the second year in a row | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

The Cincinnati Bengals' receiving corps of Ja'Marr Chase, Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd takes the top spot in these wide receiver unit rankings ahead of the 2022 NFL season.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
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They might be wrong. There are other teams with similar barriers in their passing game. The fact of the matter is, this is not a strong unit for the Texans. And they're going to have either Mills or a rookie trying to get them the ball. We know what Mills is and many rookie quarterbacks struggle in their first year.

I hope I'm surprised and the wide receiver group is a strength and not a weakness.
 
Buckeye Homer said:
PFF ranked Houston's receiving unit as the worst in the league. I think they're going to be wrong.

www.pff.com

2023 NFL receiving corps rankings: Cincinnati Bengals take the top spot for the second year in a row | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

The Cincinnati Bengals' receiving corps of Ja'Marr Chase, Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd takes the top spot in these wide receiver unit rankings ahead of the 2022 NFL season.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
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I think ranking the Texans as the least accomplished WR group in the league might be fair. Other than Robert Woods, who has seen his better days, which Texans WR has put up big numbers? Or in some cases, any numbers. A site like PFF uses numbers to create their analysis. This should not be a surprise to anyone, honestly.
 
sandman said:
Are they one of the - if not THE - weakest position group on the team? Yep. Worst WR group in the league? Need to see something from them before I could rationally argue the point. They are until they're not.
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It all goes back to the pointlessness of rankings. Does there really need to be a worst? Like the Texans receivers are worse than the Titans who are worse than the Giants. It only makes sense for fantasy purposes, and even then it's about individual players. Not teams.
 
Number19 said:
I'll agree with saying it's a guess, but I think it's more descriptive to say this team has to prove themselves. My belief is that we have the talent on the offensive side of the ball to be a top 10 offense.

But I'll disagree with rating our WRs so poorly. For our offense, which will be built around the short to intermediate passing game, then run/yards after the catch, we are deep and talented at the position. TE has the least depth, but our #1 starter is one of the best. This group just has to prove themselves.

Our offense will rely on a strong run game, and we have a strong two man rotation and we drafted some depth. I'm not so sure about the H-back/FB position. Again, this group just has to prove themselves.

The effectiveness of both the pass game and the run game will be dependant on the OL and it sure looks like we put together an improved starting 5. But I also believe the OL still has more question marks. Green at LG has to be healthy, but if he is, I'm confident we will have solid production at the position. I like the veteran upgrade, Shaq Mason, at RG; and we're solid at RT and pro bowl talented at LT. The Center position is still the most questionable but Michael Deiter should be a veteran improvement. Juice Scruggs is a rookie.

The OL just has to prove themselves.

Quarterback. For the offense we believe Slowik will be installing, I believe we have 3 QBs who can effectively run it. I'm higher on Mills than the naysayers, and I'm expecting him to rebound. Stroud should be the starter game one and Keenum brings a veteran presence to the position.

My ranking for the offense? WR, OL, RB, QB, TE, FB.

Defense? I'll leave this unit to others.
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If the offense Slowik is installing is based on the Shanahan system, it's not the WCO. There was an article posted somewhere on here that clearly pointed out the differences. It's a very good read. Basically said the Shanahan system used PA and the run game to set up explosive plays down the field, as opposed to the WCO using PA and short/intermediate passes as an extension of the run game. I'll see if I can find it.

Grant Cohn: Defining Kyle Shanahan's offense (pressdemocrat.com)
 
DocBar said:
If the offense Slowik is installing is based on the Shanahan system, it's not the WCO. There was an article posted somewhere on here that clearly pointed out the differences. It's a very good read. Basically said the Shanahan system used PA and the run game to set up explosive plays down the field, as opposed to the WCO using PA and short/intermediate passes as an extension of the run game. I'll see if I can find it.

Grant Cohn: Defining Kyle Shanahan's offense (pressdemocrat.com)
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Yes, I remember that read. Except, this year at least, our receivers better fit the short/ intermediate game. Dell in particular. And if he can come back, Metchie. Mills is very accurate with his deep ball and, reportedly, so is Stroud. So I agree we'll be taking our shots downfield. We'll see how it averages out, but I like the potential of our offensive unit. We could be very, very good if the pieces all fall into place and we stay clear of major injury. Green missed OTAs and that is a concern. And Metchie coming back too soon and reinjuring is a concern. But I'm optimistic.
 
DocBar said:
Lots of YAC in that video too.
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Do you think there’s lots of YAC in Shanahan’s current Niners offense, with Deebo and Kittle? Do they stretch the field more vertically or horizontally in San Francisco? Does the description in the article of Shanahan’s offense really make sense?
 
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Lucky said:
Do you think there’s lots of YAC in Shanahan’s current Niners offense, with Deebo and Kittle? Do they stretch the field more vertically or horizontally in San Francisco? Does the description in the article of Shanahan’s offense really make sense?
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Yes, the description in the article does make sense to me. San Fran was my 2nd favorite team in the 80's and 90's, so I watched them as often as I could.
 
Number19 said:
Yes, I remember that read. Except, this year at least, our receivers better fit the short/ intermediate game. Dell in particular. And if he can come back, Metchie. Mills is very accurate with his deep ball and, reportedly, so is Stroud. So I agree we'll be taking our shots downfield. We'll see how it averages out, but I like the potential of our offensive unit. We could be very, very good if the pieces all fall into place and we stay clear of major injury. Green missed OTAs and that is a concern. And Metchie coming back too soon and reinjuring is a concern. But I'm optimistic.
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Collins seems like a capable X. Gotta few capable guys at X and at least two very good slot's, if Metchie is good to go.
 
sandman said:
Are they one of the - if not THE - weakest position group on the team? Yep. Worst WR group in the league? Need to see something from them before I could rationally argue the point. They are until they're not.
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And to think that they should be much better than they were last season.
 
steelbtexan said:
And to think that they should be much better than they were last season.
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Debatable. For all of his drama, we don't have the talent of a Cooks in that WR room anymore. We are relying on an old vet that has had a few good seasons, a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy and three guys that have never played a down in the NFL.

They are still the weakest position on the team. Not ready to believe that they are the worst in the league doesn't change that.
 
sandman said:
Debatable. For all of his drama, we don't have the talent of a Cooks in that WR room anymore. We are relying on an old vet that has had a few good seasons, a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy and three guys that have never played a down in the NFL.

They are still the weakest position on the team. Not ready to believe that they are the worst in the league doesn't change that.
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The theory being CJ Stroud makes them better. We shall see. We have yet to see Slowhickies offense.
 
sandman said:
Debatable. For all of his drama, we don't have the talent of a Cooks in that WR room anymore. We are relying on an old vet that has had a few good seasons, a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy and three guys that have never played a down in the NFL.

They are still the weakest position on the team. Not ready to believe that they are the worst in the league doesn't change that.
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Brandin Cooks played in 13 games caught 57 passes for 699 yards.

the 2023 team is better & should win more than 4 games. There’s no question the team is better, top to bottom, every group.

That’s not to say they are a good team or “should” win 10 games or anything silly like that. But the roster is better.

Coaching can’t be worse than it was last season. Hopefully I won’t be wrong about that 2 years in a row.
 
sandman said:
Debatable. For all of his drama, we don't have the talent of a Cooks in that WR room anymore. We are relying on an old vet that has had a few good seasons, a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy and three guys that have never played a down in the NFL.

They are still the weakest position on the team. Not ready to believe that they are the worst in the league doesn't change that.
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Cooks quit on his team

I look for Collins and Dell to have big yrs. Rodgers is a sleeper.
 
thunderkyss said:
Brandin Cooks played in 13 games caught 57 passes for 699 yards.
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steelbtexan said:
Cooks quit on his team
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Y'all are talking production. In a singular year that as stated had a lot of drama initiated by Cooks as a means to leave the team.

What talent in this current WR room has got six 1,000 yard seasons to their resume?

Is there potential for one of the young guys to do that? Sure. They gotta do it first though. Even once.
 
sandman said:
Y'all are talking production. In a singular year that as stated had a lot of drama initiated by Cooks as a means to leave the team.

What talent in this current WR room has got six 1,000 yard seasons to their resume?

Is there potential for one of the young guys to do that? Sure. They gotta do it first though. Even once.
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Talent doesn't mean squat when you're a quitter.
 
sandman said:
Y'all are talking production
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Yes. Because that is what the team had to work with. That's who he was last season. Comparing this team on paper to last year's production we're looking at a better team.
 
sandman said:
What talent in this current WR room has got six 1,000 yard seasons to their resume?
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Just because Cooks had 6 1000 yard seasons doesn't mean he has another one in him. Cooks will turn 30 this season. How many age 30 WRs had a 1000 yards last year? One, Tyler Lockett. I don't think Cooks will be missed all that much.
 
Lucky said:
Just because Cooks had 6 1000 yard seasons doesn't mean he has another one in him. Cooks will turn 30 this season. How many age 30 WRs had a 1000 yards last year? One, Tyler Lockett. I don't think Cooks will be missed all that much.
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I'm not calling the WR room trash. I am saying it has a whole lot more POTENTIAL than actual PRODUCTION at the NFL level. There is a lot of confidence that the olds, the castoffs, the oft-injured and the rookies, all playing with a rookie QB and for a rookie HC/OC are going to be so much better than last year. Not sure where that confidence comes from.

Like someone said once, may have even been you: they are a bust until they aren't.
 
sandman said:
I'm not calling the WR room trash. I am saying it has a whole lot more POTENTIAL than actual PRODUCTION at the NFL level. There is a lot of confidence that the olds, the castoffs, the oft-injured and the rookies, all playing with a rookie QB and for a rookie HC/OC are going to be so much better than last year. Not sure where that confidence comes from.

Like someone said once, may have even been you: they are a bust until they aren't.
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I’m honestly not seeing that. Can’t think of one person who said anything like that without a bunch of “ifs” in the statement
 
sandman said:
There is a lot of confidence that the olds, the castoffs, the oft-injured and the rookies, all playing with a rookie QB and for a rookie HC/OC are going to be so much better than last year. Not sure where that confidence comes from.
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Maybe it's optimism rather than confidence? Last year it was JAGs throwing to JAGs for the most part. This year we're hoping to see the Texans building something substantial. New staff, new QB, some new receivers. You probably have already quit on the team if you're not more excited.
 
Lucky said:
Maybe it's optimism rather than confidence? Last year it was JAGs throwing to JAGs for the most part. This year we're hoping to see the Texans building something substantial. New staff, new QB, some new receivers. You probably have already quit on the team if you're not more excited.
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I've quit on this team because I'm not pumping sunshine about the position group that the majority agrees is the weakest on the team?

Let me know when my fandom meets your level of approval. I may not sleep well until then.
 
sandman said:
I've quit on this team because I'm not pumping sunshine about the position group that the majority agrees is the weakest on the team?

Let me know when my fandom meets your level of approval. I may not sleep well until then.
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Don't you know that if you aren't in on everything the Texans do, then you aren't a fan?
 
sandman said:
I've quit on this team because I'm not pumping sunshine about the position group that the majority agrees is the weakest on the team?

Let me know when my fandom meets your level of approval. I may not sleep well until then.
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Hard time to be critical when the team has hit the reset button. New coach, new qb, even ownership is trying to rebrand itself. Folks want to be hopeful and anything that infringes on that will get scrutiny.

Ultimately, we all want the same thing. A SB. If a reader doesn't, I question his Fandom. I don't question yours.

Personally, I have no problem criticizing the team as long as it's pragmatic. Even now with a reset. A 20 year history illustrates one failure after another. I want to be hopeful but I have doubts. Cj wasn't high on my list ,but now that he's here, I'll root for him.

It's wait and see for me.
 
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