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How many players are you all away from being in contention?
- Thread starter Jagsbch
- Start date
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
Jagsbch said:
I'll try to take this one early in the morning.
We are a RT, LG, RG, C, TE, DE, MLB, FS away.
basicly our entire o-line, with some questions surrounding pitts, who i excluded. Basicly, this is the year we build, we go 6-10ish and then its downhill from there. I give us two years to be competitive if we fill those spots with capable rookies.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
Grid said:
He actually said >6 which is more than 6. Good morning GRID!! wake up dude.
our LBs arent as bad as advertised.. heck..our whole defense isnt as bad as advertised. We need a DT cause Payne is old..and we need a FS cause Coleman is old.. and possibly a #2 CB to replace Buchanan.
on offense we need an OG and an OT .. and possibly a center but it isnt a huge need because Hodgdon looked good when he played and may be our answer there. and we need a back to share carries with DD.
So that is 6 right there. Some people would include TE but im not going to say we need that till I see what a new coaching staff does with our existing TEs..and if Joppru finally plays. Others will also say we need a #2 WR but with Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis..you cant tell me one of these guys couldnt be a capable #2.
on offense we need an OG and an OT .. and possibly a center but it isnt a huge need because Hodgdon looked good when he played and may be our answer there. and we need a back to share carries with DD.
So that is 6 right there. Some people would include TE but im not going to say we need that till I see what a new coaching staff does with our existing TEs..and if Joppru finally plays. Others will also say we need a #2 WR but with Gaffney, Armstrong, and Mathis..you cant tell me one of these guys couldnt be a capable #2.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
wordHJam72 said:
cap1
Rookie
Grid said:
Hopefully we don't have to replace Buchanan. Maybe with some new coaching here he can be as good as he was supose to be coming out of Miami. Hopefully we get some use out of him.
I do think we need a TE. I also don't count on Joppru coming back. If he does great, but I won't hold my breath. We need some youth on the O-Line. Also if we draft them the Salary Cap is not that big an issue with them in the first 3 years or so.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
Our LBs stepped it up as the year ended. Orr turned heads. Babin came through. That is all though. Peek and Greenwood need to both go, they are overrated. Wong will be welcomed back. Our LB's actually rate as a big need from my perspective, but only a MLB.Grid said:
We can upgrade EVERY position. I am still not sold on Pitts, we never tried him out for longer than 3 steps, though he did admirable at that. He is worth next year to me. Hodgen is fine, but a MAJOR upgrade is available this offseason in LeCharles Bently. Before the Kubiak news, I was focused on guys like Giles, Luiti (still want him), McNeil, Winston. Now I am turning my focus to smaller, quicker guys.Grid said:
Maybe, but a #1 pick is not that kind of back. Wells is great for his purposes. Hollings will shock the heck out of people now that he is healthy and he will be given a fair chance. Morency can get bent.Grid said:
Grid said:
TE is a need, but not immediate. It would be nice to have Joppru back, and maybe a 5th round TE. Wait till next year for Greg Olsen. That is my philosophy.
Grid said:
Mathis is our #2. Armstrong and Gaff. make a great slot combo. The canada record guy should also compete. Charles Rogers would also be a great addition to our talent.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
cap1 said:
He should show his potential this year. I hope so at least, I've been defending him a lot. A real DC will do wonders.
Does anyone know about DB's under Jerry Gray and how they improved? Pro-bolws, immediate sucess?
Jagsbch
Waterboy
YoungTexanFan said:
Now why on earth is there all this talk about drafting a RB or QB? I know there are two very good ones coming out this draft, but would it not make more since to sieze the moment with two good players, and use this as an opportunity to sell sell sell your draft pick and rack up on players that you need need need. This is not a the time to reach for a luxury pick IMO.
Furthermore why is there no CB listed? Last game we played you all had 6 ints dropped and allowed DG to rack up the most yards even in his career. Hello this is a QB who was out ranked by every opponents QB we faced but the 49ers. You all allowed a RB to come off the bench and score 3 TD's. With Seth Payne not getting any younger, and Walkers health and age issues...
Time to focus on what is going to make this team better IMO, rather than try to get a flach in the pan with Bush. We all know games are won and lost in the trenches, and your trenches are in desperate need of an enfusion.
Dennis Norman has turned into a beast for us at the center position. Depth is too vital of an asset not to seize the moment and fortify this team with the pick with 3 or 4 good players than 1. David Davis are not chop liver. I don;pt see one person listing the QB and RB positions as issues on this team that are keeping them from being in contention.
You only need 2 starters..the rest are depth. Peek can be depth. But I dont think we have seen everything he has. No one can deny his physical abilities.. and if he has the physical abilities..then the only thing lacking is the Mental. He was in a defense that put too much emphasis on the mental and not enough on the physical.. we may be surprised by him next season. As for Greenwood..I agree.. but I also think we might have something in Polk. Im not saying we are set for the next 10 years at LB.. but I dont see it as a need for us to be in contention.. not at this point.
Daryn Colledge and Davin Joseph. Those are the quick guys im looking at. Though Denver didnt use first day picks on their linemen. Pitts will hold down one of the tackle positions..and I think he could be the answer at LT. I agree that Bentley would be a great acquisition for us.. but we are definatly not the only team looking to get him, and we are definatly not the team that alot of FAs would choose first. Still..i hope we can sign him. That being said.. we will need depth at C behind Hodgdon..either with McKinney or (preferably) with a cheaper FA signing. Yes we could upgrade EVERY position..90% of the teams in the league could upgrade every position as well. Our NEEDS on the Oline are 2 players (as I see it)..1 guard, and 1 tackle. Hodgdon, Pitts, and Wiegert I see as starter material..and im giving Hodg the benefit of the doubt.
Wow..total disagreement here. Even when healthy (rare as it has been) Hollings hasnt shocked anyone..unless they were shocked at how bad he was..or what we paid to get him. Morency is quality depth with upside. Wells is a great backup and versatile player with his FB and special teams abilities. I am of the opinion that if you are going to have a back share carries with your starter..he needs to be just as talented. Why waste time sharing carries otherwise? That would be like putting Buchanan in to share time with Robinson... sure it may keep Robinson rested but while Buchanan is out there your team is weaker. You dont see teams running the "RB by Comittee" thing unless they have two good backs.
Lots of teams get by without a playmaker at TE. And lord knows with DD and Bush and Gaffney and Armstrong.. we have no shortage of dumpoff receivers. I think a new offensive scheme, combined with a better Oline.. will make our needs at TE less important. I think we could actually get by fine wiht the TEs we have.. but I am not against upgrading the position. Definatly not a need.
Im hoping Mathis becomes our #2 as well.. though I am not gonna sell Armstrong or Gaffney short. They may not be speedsters..but there is no rule saying a receiver with great hands that runs good routes can only play slot. The important thing for a #2 receiver to do is threaten the defense.. he needs to pull coverage to him.. any good receiver can do that. Im not against signing Rogers if the price is right.. if he pans out like he was supposed to in Denver.. he would be a great #2.
Spoda
Waterboy
i have read the posts and have decided the masses are correct...we need one player..vince...he will make the rest of the NFL teams want to fold up shop just because he is on our team...he will help the defense because he took the trophy back to awwwuuston texas baby!! he will fill the stands and become our mayor...he is all we need
before i was brainwashed into vinsanity i thought we need 1T 1G 1C(if hogdon is not worthy) 1 DE when we switch to 4-3..1 CB if buchanon truly is trash(which i don't believe..i think with a pass rush the whole D will be better)and 1 safety..so how many is that?? oh wait and someone worthy of stepping on an NFL field and calling themselves a TE..but then again..vince can block for himself and throw to himself and doesn't even need a line ..
before i was brainwashed into vinsanity i thought we need 1T 1G 1C(if hogdon is not worthy) 1 DE when we switch to 4-3..1 CB if buchanon truly is trash(which i don't believe..i think with a pass rush the whole D will be better)and 1 safety..so how many is that?? oh wait and someone worthy of stepping on an NFL field and calling themselves a TE..but then again..vince can block for himself and throw to himself and doesn't even need a line ..
Jagsbch said:
If drafting a playmaker is your idea of "luxury".. well.. I dunno what to say to that. As for stocking up on players.. aj. made it pretty clear that that has its risks as well with the current cap issues around the league. I can explain (again) the logic behind Bush.
1) DD is not durable enough to be a workhorse. he needs someone to share carries with him.
2) Bush is one of the most promising prospects to come out of college in a long time.
3) Their running styles are perfect compliments to one another..and both fit the Denver zone blocking scheme.
4) Could we get by without another RB? yes.. but it is still a need..if a lesser one. If you have that rare opportunity to draft an elite prospect.. you dont skip on it to grab two more "needs"..you take the possible playmaker.
that is the short and skinny of it.. for more detailed analysis, look at some other threads.
I recommend taking a look at the team needs thread that is being posted in right now. It explains some of this. CB is a need.. but not a drastic need. There is still hope around here that Buchanan could turn it around other a new coaching staff.
an "infusion".. and yes..they do.. and that infusion can be found in the 2nd-4th round. We cant afford to sign 10-12 rookies. a couple of Olinemen (Colledge, Joseph) and a DT (Watson) will be a good start.
Dennis Norman has turned into a beast for us at the center position. Depth is too vital of an asset not to seize the moment and fortify this team with the pick with 3 or 4 good players than 1. David Davis are not chop liver. I don;pt see one person listing the QB and RB positions as issues on this team that are keeping them from being in contention.
I agree.. we need to continue building depth. Im sorry though.. this isnt the mid 90s and you dont build your team in one draft. Its not possible in this era. Seriously.. check aj.'s post....ill go find it and quote it.
well in this case.. I was in school for most of the regular semester..so I had less posting time.
But that normally doesnt stop me.. the real problem is no one had anything interesting to talk about during the season
. I checked the board every day (bout the only thing to do between classes) but never found anything I wanted to put my 2 cents on.
I dunno..maybe it was depression over our losing streak
But that normally doesnt stop me.. the real problem is no one had anything interesting to talk about during the season
. I checked the board every day (bout the only thing to do between classes) but never found anything I wanted to put my 2 cents on. I dunno..maybe it was depression over our losing streak
bdiddy
Waterboy
We are 7 players away from making a legitimate playoff Bush (i.e., record between 10-6 and 11-5).
OT (either right or left if he is better than Pitts), Center (preferably LeCharles Bently), 2nd WR (Bush could help make Gaffney adequate), TE (pass catching and blocking, although Kubiak's scheme will help make an average TE useful), DE (someone who can stop the run), MLB (again a run stopper), CB (good #2 corner)
Probably closer to 8-10 players away for depth purposes to be a perennial superbowl contender.
OT (either right or left if he is better than Pitts), Center (preferably LeCharles Bently), 2nd WR (Bush could help make Gaffney adequate), TE (pass catching and blocking, although Kubiak's scheme will help make an average TE useful), DE (someone who can stop the run), MLB (again a run stopper), CB (good #2 corner)
Probably closer to 8-10 players away for depth purposes to be a perennial superbowl contender.
Jagsbch
Waterboy
My point is that Texans have Playmakers at the RB as well as the QB position. Grabbing picks just in and outside of the top 10 can dramatically reduce the casualty of the rookie pool being absorbed by the #1 pick, making room for plenty more top and 2nd tier players to beef up positions in need. This is a pretty awesome draft for the positions you all need most IMO. If you all play your cards right, you could land three of the players mentioned below from the first round at the price you would have to pay a #1 QB.
Haloti Ngata DT Oregon
Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
Tamba Hali DE Penn State
Rodrique Wright DT Texas
Claude Wrotten DT LSU
Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State
Chad Greenway LB Iowa
DeMeco Ryans LB Alabama
D'Qwell Jackson LB Maryland
Michael Huff S Texas
Ko Simpson S South Carolina
Laron Landry S LSU
Charles Gordon CB Kansas
Tye Hill CB Clemson
Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin
Eric Winston OT Miami (FL)
Marcus McNeil OT Auburn
Jon Scott OT Texas
Winston Justice OT USC
Vernon Davis TE Maryland
Haloti Ngata DT Oregon
Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
Tamba Hali DE Penn State
Rodrique Wright DT Texas
Claude Wrotten DT LSU
Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State
Chad Greenway LB Iowa
DeMeco Ryans LB Alabama
D'Qwell Jackson LB Maryland
Michael Huff S Texas
Ko Simpson S South Carolina
Laron Landry S LSU
Charles Gordon CB Kansas
Tye Hill CB Clemson
Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin
Eric Winston OT Miami (FL)
Marcus McNeil OT Auburn
Jon Scott OT Texas
Winston Justice OT USC
Vernon Davis TE Maryland
Erratic Assassin
Rookie
We are EASILY over 6 players away. We need a bare minimum of 2 new offensive linemen, a tight end, a bare minimum of 1 wide receiver, if we convert to a 4-3, we're going to need 2 defensive ends, our linebackers are pitiful and have done nothing for 4 years, so we probably need a couple of those, plus a cornerback and a safety.
I'd say more like 10 players away before we start to look like a decent team.
I'd say more like 10 players away before we start to look like a decent team.
Jagsbch
Waterboy
The way I see it erratic is that you all believe it or not were not as bad as your record had indicated. You all may be the best !st round pick team in history.
You all had a 1 point margin of victory in the last 4 or 5 games you all played before facing us. I think that you all are like 7 starters away from being in contention. I hope David and the WR's are already learning the new language, the sooner they get on the new system the better. The cap just got jacked this year so you all should have plenty of opportunity to fill needs through the FA as well.
I want to see our two teams on top of this division next season. But you all have got to shore up your trenches in a bad way, especially considering how deep the trenches in our division are. Then there is the issue with your secondary. Byron has a 135.7 QB rating in the 3rd quarter when JDR seems inclinedto let him loose on opposing secondaries. Between Byron Peyton, and then there is our Knarly schedule next season I think you all ought to really take care of those two issues on defense as well as the o-line on offense. I think this team is a lot coloser to being in contention than any other first pick team in the draft has ever been.
You all had a 1 point margin of victory in the last 4 or 5 games you all played before facing us. I think that you all are like 7 starters away from being in contention. I hope David and the WR's are already learning the new language, the sooner they get on the new system the better. The cap just got jacked this year so you all should have plenty of opportunity to fill needs through the FA as well.
I want to see our two teams on top of this division next season. But you all have got to shore up your trenches in a bad way, especially considering how deep the trenches in our division are. Then there is the issue with your secondary. Byron has a 135.7 QB rating in the 3rd quarter when JDR seems inclinedto let him loose on opposing secondaries. Between Byron Peyton, and then there is our Knarly schedule next season I think you all ought to really take care of those two issues on defense as well as the o-line on offense. I think this team is a lot coloser to being in contention than any other first pick team in the draft has ever been.
HardKnockTexan
Rookie
Honestly, on the offensive side of the ball I think we could be good with the players we have. Ofcourse every possition could be better but I believe that's the case with most teams. I think a new coaching staff will really help with our OLine troubles. A dual threat TE would be nice to have.
Our defense is a different story. If we switch to the 4-3 we'll have holes all over the place. I think Babin can make the transition to DE but I'm not too sure about Peek. Our LB's seemed to play a lot better the last half of the season but having a true middle linebacker would be great. Our secondary is where we seem to be hurting the most. The only stud we have back there is Dunta Robinson. I'm not even gonna mention that guy we got from Oakland. I expected more from Petty Faggins last year. Coleman quit on us so he needs to get the hell out of here. CC Brown had a decent rookie year and once we got Glenn Earl on the field he was able to hold his own. Both safty possitions need to be upgraded and having a good #2 corner would be nice.
Our defense is a different story. If we switch to the 4-3 we'll have holes all over the place. I think Babin can make the transition to DE but I'm not too sure about Peek. Our LB's seemed to play a lot better the last half of the season but having a true middle linebacker would be great. Our secondary is where we seem to be hurting the most. The only stud we have back there is Dunta Robinson. I'm not even gonna mention that guy we got from Oakland. I expected more from Petty Faggins last year. Coleman quit on us so he needs to get the hell out of here. CC Brown had a decent rookie year and once we got Glenn Earl on the field he was able to hold his own. Both safty possitions need to be upgraded and having a good #2 corner would be nice.
YoungTexanFan said:
The defense was just as atrocious as the OL. I would say that the Texans need at least a couple of guys in the secondary to replace Coleman and Buchanon and at least one additional defensive guy who can rush the passer as well as stop the run. That means 10 guys. Unfortunately, you only get seven picks each year.
cadahnic
Rookie
We are not really 10 guys away. a CB/FS, DE, T, 2interior Linemen and one does not need to be a starter, LB. You get quality in these 6 positions. I am talking starters or close to that level and we are fine. We have an overflow of LBs, that can play OLB in the NFL. The old Texan staff did not go over any basics with the LBs to truly teach them the nuances of the position. All our LBs did was go over zone reads and keys. Also T. Johnson and R. Smith are not fast, quick, or have the stamina to play DE in a 4-3. They are both 1 gap DT.
HardKnockTexan
Rookie
cadahnic said:
Yup... I completley agree. If we switch to the 4-3 we will have to either draft a DE or pick one up in free agency. I'm thinkin if Babin can beef up a little and add some strength he could hold his own in the trenches. Not too sure about Peek though.
Wharton
Rookie
Needs
LT,C, RG, RT - Pitts is the only lineman worth anything, but doesn't have the foot work necessary to play LT, he has to move back to guard
TE, #2 WR, RB - Davis is great but he is always hurt and neither Morency nor Hollings are full time players
QB - Carr is worse now then he was his first year
DL, MLB, 1 CB, FS, SS
This team is in worse shape then it was during its first season. I've said if several times and I will say it again, this team is 3-4 years away from the playoffs. Think of us as the Bengals of our first season; they were no better then we were back then. Yes the Bengals did it and so can we.
LT,C, RG, RT - Pitts is the only lineman worth anything, but doesn't have the foot work necessary to play LT, he has to move back to guard
TE, #2 WR, RB - Davis is great but he is always hurt and neither Morency nor Hollings are full time players
QB - Carr is worse now then he was his first year
DL, MLB, 1 CB, FS, SS
This team is in worse shape then it was during its first season. I've said if several times and I will say it again, this team is 3-4 years away from the playoffs. Think of us as the Bengals of our first season; they were no better then we were back then. Yes the Bengals did it and so can we.
QB-Carr
Rb- Davis/Morency
Fb-Norris
TE-need
WR-AJ
WR#2-need
WR#3-gaffney
LT-Pitts
Lg-need
c-need
rg-weigert
rt-need
4/3 or 3/4 im not sure what well run. so lets say we stick with 3/4
rde- smith
lde- TJ
nt- payne
Lolb- need
Rolb- need
ILB- wong
Ilb- need
Cb- Drob
Cb- need
Cb- faggins/buch
Fs- need
SS- need
K- need
P- stanley
Kr-Mathis
Pr-need
Rb- Davis/Morency
Fb-Norris
TE-need
WR-AJ
WR#2-need
WR#3-gaffney
LT-Pitts
Lg-need
c-need
rg-weigert
rt-need
4/3 or 3/4 im not sure what well run. so lets say we stick with 3/4
rde- smith
lde- TJ
nt- payne
Lolb- need
Rolb- need
ILB- wong
Ilb- need
Cb- Drob
Cb- need
Cb- faggins/buch
Fs- need
SS- need
K- need
P- stanley
Kr-Mathis
Pr-need
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
Grid said:
Only if we are in the 3-4. Neither one has the ability and skill to play DE in a 4-3.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Jagsbch said:
Nobody knows. Everyone will give you their best guess and they'll all probably be in the same general area but the truth is that nobody knows. We're somewhere between 4-5 and 10-12 players away.
The single greatest failure of our previous coaching staff is that not one single player got better while he was here. Nobody developed. Nobody improved. We had a lot of coaches but it seems like precious little coaching got done. What's more there are several examples of veterans who got worse after they arrived here.
It's inexcusable that we should know so little about what our roster is capable of when we're four years into our existence.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
with a few key additions i HONESTLY think we'll make a run at it next season. but i'm a >
ccdude730
Veteran
as for our offensive line we do need upgrading, but its a matter of who plays what position. for example, pitts can probably hold up the LT spot for another season (assuming we are grooming someone at RT that we drafted) or he can play LG (if who we draft can beat pitts for the LT spot) or he can even play RT where many people including myself think he will be dominant. pitts is at the mercy of our draft because it dictates where he will play (if we go o-line at all). we also have a solid starter at C with hodgdon if we dont go after bentley. and if we draft a guard? which guard position do we try to upgrade? mckinney at LG is below average while weigert is fragile and older.
what about dline? smith is here for the long haul, and the only person i would think about replacing payne would be ngata - who i doubt we would be in position to draft. so his job is safe for now. upgrading the dline would involve the LDE position (g walker) and his is a tough situation. he is a hot-cold player whos bonus says he wont be released.
other positions besides in the trenches that could upgrade us significantly would be ILB, FS, TE, and possibly another corner or deep threat WR.
so i guess IMO were looking at 7-9. 2 drafts and a smart FA will get us what we need
what about dline? smith is here for the long haul, and the only person i would think about replacing payne would be ngata - who i doubt we would be in position to draft. so his job is safe for now. upgrading the dline would involve the LDE position (g walker) and his is a tough situation. he is a hot-cold player whos bonus says he wont be released.
other positions besides in the trenches that could upgrade us significantly would be ILB, FS, TE, and possibly another corner or deep threat WR.
so i guess IMO were looking at 7-9. 2 drafts and a smart FA will get us what we need
dat_boy_yec
Rookie
Jagsbch said:
All of these guys sound like solid prospects, and though I'm sure we won't be able to pick up some of the better players on this list. I am sure some of them will be available at the 33rd pick. I would hope for a DT or secondary player or TE with the first pick in the second, but only time will tell. I am sure we are closer to contention than most people think. IMO I think maybe 3 players away, and with 2 good draft prospects in the first two rounds the possibilities are exciting.
Yeah I agree with you that Jags. and Texs. should be at the top of our division, we have a nice rivalry and I really look forward to the games againts the Jags. I think it would be nice to see this matchup in the playoff one day soon.