Mr.Scarface
Rookie
I'm confused. If losing is losing why bring up what Watson lost by?
Making a point about the margin of losses brought in the other post. How much O'Brien lost by in the playoffs doesn't matter, cause a loss is a loss.
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I'm confused. If losing is losing why bring up what Watson lost by?
For all those O’Brien haters, when they lose it’s his fault, but when they win, it’s anybody but O’Brien who deserves the credit, right?
THE REST OF THE STORY
Then BOB changed the offense to play to Watson's strengths and you still hate him? SMH
While I tentatively agree with this at what point do you decide that a change is needed? Is it a magic number of years?
We gave D. Capers 4 seasons with no playoff appearances.
G. Kubiak got 7 & change with 2 playoff wins.
If we are sitting here at the end of 6 years with still only 1 post season win will that be enough or should we give him more time.
For me if we aren't at least competitive in a divisional playoff game (not a wildcard game) then I have had enough and want a change.
Right now he's a poor man's Marty Schottenheimer. . .without the conference championship appearances. Marty had some great regular season teams. Matter of fact, he's 200-126 in the regular season. Impressive!
But, in a results driven business, all that really matters is postseason wins. In 21 seasons, Marty is 5-13.
And that's what Billy's 1-3 record says to me. Prove otherwise and I'll believe. Respect is earned.
You certainly did. But that statement by McClain evidently comes from a much wider sample of his audience/sources than you and this MB.Nope , I gave him credit for calling an absolutely marvelous game in London.
Nope , I'm wondering why he didn't do that sooner …. It was painfully obvious for all to see that what he was asking Watson to do wasn't getting the best out of his QB.
And I'm kinda waiting for the other shoe to drop - OB to go back to "his offense" instead of what works for Watson.
What did BOB do to make you hate him and that goes for the rest of this MB too? This is yr 2 without the anvil that was RS and surely you can see the progress that's been made. Or are you one of those guys that buries your head in the sand because he doesn't want to admit that he could be wrong?
This yr he expected Watson to have a better grasp on the offense and make quicker decisions/find open guys better than he did last yr. That didn't happen, so BOB changed the offense after the Carolina game.
The reason he didn't change it before then is Watson played well at times in the old offense in the 1st 2 games against the Saints/Chargers. After Watson struggled against the Jags/Panthers he said screw it and changed the offense.
Good point. That makes sense. Maybe I have been unfair to Bill O'Brien. Thank you Steelbtexan for opening my eyes & helping me see the truth.
Pretty good actually that it only took him six games to see what the rest of us saw. I mean if he had access to watch Watson practice since June or something, maybe he could have identified the weak areas earlier. You know if he actually has meetings with him discussing what went wrong the last game & the game plan for the upcoming game maybe he should have understood what his QB could & could not do & it still took six games to see what we see then we're wasting our time with this clown & there's no way he's going to help elevate Watson to be the best player he could be.
But yeah. Rick Smith did it.
Rick Smith gave OB DW4
Just sayin.....
OB can never shake that when he covers all the deficiencies
This year he is starting to do things that I like. He's been doing things I don't like for five years.
Part of being a good HC is just like any other position. Your job, my job... everybody's job. You've got to be able to work with people. It seems that it is difficult to find people BO'b can work with. Even guys he hand picked get tossed with less than 18 months on the job.
Hopkins is damn sure trying to.WR's don't make 100% of the catches they should make
Didn't they just have a walk-through practice today? And why rush him back for the dolphins? Are they really that much of a threat?Brissett is already back at practice …. and may play this Sunday against the Dolphins.
It actually took 4 games before he changed the offense. He thought after the 1st 2 games Watson was making progress. Then realized it wasn't going to happen.
Why did BOB wait to put in the new offense? He was trying to keep Watson healthy.
Rick Smith gave OB DW4
Just sayin.....
OB can never shake that when he covers all the deficiencies
Only technically.
Tricky Rick didn't want to draft a QB at all.
It was a mandate from Bob McNair that gave OB DW4.
I quote - "Go Get Me A Damn Quarterback - I don't want to hear anymore excuses"
BTW, you didn't answer what you hate about BOB.
It's like you hate him personally.
Did he say that on the Bill O'Brien Show, or in the Chronicle?
You got BO'b on speed dial?
I've answered this question twice before, for you. This is the third time.
I didn't like his college coaching attitude he brought with him the first couple of years. I didn't like the, "I'm going to show you how to win." Attitude he had. We had been to the playoffs three times before he got here. He was supposed to take us to the next level. We ended up with a 6 year rebuild & we're currently in year two.
I don't see any evidence that he has ever installed an offensive system any where. This is his first.
I don't think he coaches the players he's given. I think the game is still too fast for him.
I hate that he gets flustered when reporters ask him questions.
I don't think he's a good communicator. & I don't think he's as smart as he let's on.
But last year I think I recognized a little toughness in this team & I attribute that all to BO'b. A toughness this team severely lacked. True Grit. & it appears to be growing this year. If we find ourselves in a "win out to earn the two seed" situation I think we'll win out & win the two seed. That kind of toughness.
& if we do, I'll like him a little more. But right now, I don't.
So you dont like his personality. You dont like how he treats the media, I love how he treats the media, ask a stupid question at your own risk. Of course I dont let the media influence my decisions.
He did a good job coaching what RS gave him and that's why he's still here. *Feel free to disagree but he wouldn't be here if you were correct.) You dont like the progress that's been made in the last 2 yrs personnel wise.
He's a good communicator, there's no way a team would play as hard as they do for him as they do if he was a bad communicator. A bad communicator doesn't lead his team to 11 wins after an 0-3 start regardless of SOS.
The toughness is directly related to the upgrades in talent since BOB took over.
I too dont think he's as smart as he thinks he is. Otherwise the TO/Challenges wouldn't be such an issue.
I know when your talking about rebuilds you mean pre and post rick Smith. We agree on his effect on the team.
My concern is his (ob's) game and time management. It hasn't gotten better since year one. Add challenges to that as well.
I do see progress on offense. On defense the clowney debacle was horribly mismanaged.
To me, he's roughly a .500 coach.
I want results. I want an AFC championship game. Anything short of that and I have doubts about the merit in retaining him.
You dont like how he treats the media, I love how he treats the media, ask a stupid question at your own risk
He's a good communicator, there's no way a team would play as hard as they do for him as they do if he was a bad communicator.
The toughness is directly related to the upgrades in talent since BOB took over.
THIS^^^I could care less how he treats the media. My concern is his lack of self control. He lets them get under his skin & it shows.
If he were a good communicator then there would be more evidence of people working with him & him getting what he wants. That's not what we see. Even his hand picked GM couldn't understand what he was asking for. None of the QBs have understood what he's trying to communicate to the team. Not even Watson. So we have him "simplifying" his offense.
Not what i'm saying at all, but since you brought it up, yes exactly & this should be the only benchmark he has to meet b/c as a HC, this is where you earn your money & power...in the playoffs.
Aside from that, it is my firm belief that when he is fired, this will be why; He simply has to get us over the hump in the next few years to the AFCCG/SB.
All these artificial benchmarks people keep setting only to move the goal post to some other benchmark are leading to 1 benchmark that matters: a deep run in the playoffs.
I could care less how he treats the media. My concern is his lack of self control. He lets them get under his skin & it shows.
If he were a good communicator then there would be more evidence of people working with him & him getting what he wants. That's not what we see. Even his hand picked GM couldn't understand what he was asking for. None of the QBs have understood what he's trying to communicate to the team. Not even Watson. So we have him "simplifying" his offense.
I specifically mentioned I saw the toughness take root last year, before he "took over"
Whoever the next and new GM is I want him/her to be picked solely by Cal/ownership, don't want O'Brien or anybody else to
have anything to do in the selction process with who the McNairs hire as their GM to report directly and only to them.
It hasn't got jack to do with moving goal posts. OB's record against better teams is what it is. Improving on that record only gives fans a better feeling of how they'll handle playoff games, which is the ultimate goal. *edit- winning playoff games, not how the fans feel.
He had a 9 game winning streak last year and very few had confidence they'd do anything in the playoffs, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS. And sure enough and once again.
They go 3-0 the next 3 weeks and it doesn't mean jack about a game in January, but it does give you a little more confidence that maybe they'll be able to finally get something done. Nothing more, nothing less.
They go 0-3, 1-2, and the confidence level remains rock bottom because it's what we'll have seen for a 6th straight year. Rolling up the W's against average to below, and getting thumped by the better. They could go 0-3, 1-2 in these next 3 games and still win 10, 11 games, and the masses will still have no confidence they'll do anything in January BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS.
The history is there. And it's not just a small sample size. It ain't about your weak ass goal post moving argument. It's about taking forward steps and getting this franchise past the point they've been stuck at for forever.
While I tentatively agree with this at what point do you decide that a change is needed? Is it a magic number of years?
We gave D. Capers 4 seasons with no playoff appearances.
G. Kubiak got 7 & change with 2 playoff wins.
If we are sitting here at the end of 6 years with still only 1 post season win will that be enough or should we give him more time.
For me if we aren't at least competitive in a divisional playoff game (not a wildcard game) then I have had enough and want a change.
It's rare that .500 coaches get so much control of an NFL franchise. However, according to some posters, O'Brien can only be successful when he has full control of personnel decisions and I guess input on the next GM. Hopefully, Cal does not hold that same belief..
That's not what you typed. I dont think they get under his skin. Does the media get under Belichick's skin. You dont understand or maybe it's like his northestern mentality. You've gotta get over this.
BOB hasn't had a QB until Watson. He has done a good job developing Watson IMHO.
If you watch Belichick then watch O'Brien & think they handle the media similarly, this conversation is over.
BO'b is more like Denny Green in Arizona, or Singeltary with the 49ers. Belichick is toying with the media, he's two steps ahead of them & controls the conversation.
Watson would do better with a better coach. He'd beat teams with winning records. He'd be the next Steve Young & not the next Phillip Rivers, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer.
. If Watson gets hurt I'm sure that will be BOB's fault too, even though this is the offense everybody including myself has been clamoring for.
If you watch Belichick then watch O'Brien & think they handle the media similarly, this conversation is over.
BO'b is more like Denny Green in Arizona, or Singeltary with the 49ers. Belichick is toying with the media, he's two steps ahead of them & controls the conversation.
Watson would do better with a better coach. He'd beat teams with winning records. He'd be the next Steve Young & not the next Phillip Rivers, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer.
That's what he gets for listening to the fans.
Any coach or team can have a good day here and there. Belichick, Reid, Payton and Carroll have proven that they can get better results, with more consistency than OB. I'm willing to see how the Texans do in the three game stretch after the bye. They should be mostly healthy, so let's see if they come out and go 9-3 or do they end up 6-6?If they get to 9-3, I'm willing to rethink my stance on OB. If they end up 6-6, I'm going to think my opinion of OB, as an NFL HC, has been confirmed."Better Coach". I love this theory. Where are these "better" coaches? What qualifies as a "better coach"? Supposedly, Andy Reid is a better coach. Ok, O'Brien outcoached him in the recent meeting. Sean Payton (yes, has won a Super Bowl...and playoff success)? It took a bad D call by RAC and a blown coverage by Colvin to beat B'OB in game 1. I don't think he outcoached B'OB. Bellichick is the only coach that is head and shoulder better in the NFL. There are others with more success, but all have flaws. This mythical "better" head coach that will solve All the Texans issues....is where?
Any coach or team can have a good day here and there. Belichick, Reid, Payton and Carroll have proven that they can get better results, with more consistency than OB. I'm willing to see how the Texans do in the three game stretch after the bye. They should be mostly healthy, so let's see if they come out and go 9-3 or do they end up 6-6?If they get to 9-3, I'm willing to rethink my stance on OB. If they end up 6-6, I'm going to think my opinion of OB, as an NFL HC, has been confirmed.
I'd be cool with 2-1. Not so cool with 1-2 unless the 1 is Indy.Fair enough,
I predict they go 2-1 and posters will be wanting to fire him for the loss.
BOB really hasn't called a bad game this yr other than the Raiders game. The Carolina game wasn't great but there were plays there to be made that didn't get made.
It hasn't got jack to do with moving goal posts. OB's record against better teams is what it is. Improving on that record only gives fans a better feeling of how they'll handle playoff games, which is the ultimate goal. *edit- winning playoff games, not how the fans feel.
He had a 9 game winning streak last year and very few had confidence they'd do anything in the playoffs, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS. And sure enough and once again.
They go 3-0 the next 3 weeks and it doesn't mean jack about a game in January, but it does give you a little more confidence that maybe they'll be able to finally get something done. Nothing more, nothing less.
They go 0-3, 1-2, and the confidence level remains rock bottom because it's what we'll have seen for a 6th straight year. Rolling up the W's against average to below, and getting thumped by the better. They could go 0-3, 1-2 in these next 3 games and still win 10, 11 games, and the masses will still have no confidence they'll do anything in January BECAUSE HE DOESN'T BEAT GOOD TEAMS.
The history is there. And it's not just a small sample size. It ain't about your weak ass goal post moving argument. It's about taking forward steps and getting this franchise past the point they've been stuck at for forever.
How funny is it that Watson keeps being painted as “not grasping” OBriens “offense” so I ask this ... what exactly is OBriens offense? It has been horrible UNTIL Watson arrived and STILL somehow this team doesn’t reach full potential because of Watson and any number of other things instead of holding OBrien accountable for all the mistakes he makes as a head coach??
that’s why there is such a big divide among fans. The OBrien supporters resort to Trumpist style tactics of disinformation and intentional misdirection.
This team goes as Watson goes. OBrien is just tagging along for the ride.
How did O'Brien call such a good game against Jax? I believe he just turned the play calling over to Watson. "Call what you want."
I'm not an O'Brien fan, however, I will wait to see how the season plays out.
Your hate for O'Brien blinds you to the fact his players play for him and somehow, I guess thru SHEER luck, he wins games (Only had Watson for 1 playoff run, let's see year 2).
He’s going to have to prove himself in the playoffs. Another first round ass kicking and he should be fired. I don’t care what happens in the regular season.
Last yr he was dealing with a QB that was coming off of an ACL and then suffered a broken ribs/punctured lung.
This yr he expected Watson to have a better grasp on the offense and make quicker decisions/find open guys better than he did last yr. That didn't happen, so BOB changed the offense after the Carolina game.
The reason he didn't change it before then is Watson played well at times in the old offense in the 1st 2 games against the Saints/Chargers. After Watson struggled against the Jags/Panthers he said screw it and changed the offense. Which is what we were all calling for and you would think everybody would be happy. But apparently that's not ever going to happen.
I'm going to start a thread soon asking the question why do people hate BOB, soon. Plenty of posters have admitted they just dont like the guy and I wonder why? He's done about as good as a HC could do with a beat up team that had terrible OL issues and no WR's other than Hopkins at the end of last yr.
It’s amazing the way you can penetrate the fog around NRG and mind meld with O’Brien. Why are you wasting your talents on a mediocre NFL team when you could be playing poker and reading the minds of your opponents?
I keep on hearing all the criticism directed towards O'Brien re. his challenges. So I tried to do a search on any stats that reflected challenges by NFL coaches. I found this interesting post on Reddit that addresses this subject:A good synopsis of his weaknesses. Hopefully he hires somebody to strictly help him with Clock mgmt/TO's/Challenges.
They aren't ready for an AFCCG appearance. Gotta get experience. They do need to win a playoff game.
I agree BOB's been an avg HC so far. But lets see what he can do when the vision/direction of the team is clearly in his hands.
Atleast you didn't use the he's mean to the media card, or he's not a leader, when the team clearly plays hard for him.