Disgraceful...

[Kaiser Toro]

You really expect this team to compete with the top teams in the league? Get real. After coming off a 2-14 season you expect them to compete with the top teams in the first five games of the season? You will see them compete when they start playing less talented teams such as the titans, raiders, browns, jets.

Compete yes, win no. We took a step back yesterday. I do not expect the current staff, scheme and players to help us get to my 6 win estimate this year. I am not willing to go ape crap on the staff, but I am at the ready since the staff did look green upon hiring.

 

[HOU-TEX]

You really expect this team to compete with the top teams in the league? Get real. After coming off a 2-14 season you expect them to compete with the top teams in the first five games of the season? You will see them compete when they start playing less talented teams such as the titans, raiders, browns, jets.

Are you sure about that? The way I see it, every one of those teams can easily beat us. Until this team earns somewhat of an identity, I would not consider any team as less talented.

 

[Nbkan]

Simply put there is no fight in this team at the moment. That attitude or lack of it needs to be addressed. We can't just have 1 or 2 guys with fire we need 6 -10. I know we need a lot more than that as well...I took a lot of damn abuse today from Cowboy fans...looking forward to payback but as I see it, that will be a few years down the road.

 

[texan279]

New starters: Offense: WR Colston, QB Brees, RB Bush, RG Jahri Evans (rookie from DIIA), C Jeff Faine.

Defense: DT Hollis Thomas, LB Scott Fujita, LB Scott Shanle, LB Mike Simoneau (not one LB on the team plays this year, all the reserves are new as well), SS Roman Harper (Rookie, now done for year), SS Omar Stoutmire (starting in place of Harper, contributed before), P Steve Weatherford.

This doesn't get into all the backups, over half of which are new players as well. Hardly "a few new players".

Look, I'm not a Texan hater. I'm a huge Saints fan oviously, but I live around Houston and joined this site to keep up with what's going on with the local team besides what the media feeds me (which we all know is mostly bs). The fact is, we both had a lot of personnel decisions to be made by new staffs at the beginning of this season. So far, we've caught a lot of breaks with most of our decisions working out about as well as they could have. You guys have not gotten the same breaks yet. But I firmly believe that the two teams started during the offseason on very even grounds.

And who was there before the additions this season that are standout players? Horn, McAllister, Will Smith, Jammal Brown, etc. What players did we have before free agency and the draft of that caliber? Andre Johnson and Dunta Robinson are the only ones that pop into my head that would come close.

 

[Chance_C]

Don't tell this to Sean Payton. I don't think he knows that it takes years and years to rebuild. Most thought that he was handed a mess when he took over the Saints. The Saints fans ran Jim Haslett out of town much like we ran Dom out of here

The Saints are a great story no doubt about it. I really am happy for them.
However, there is one difference in the whole situation to me. You are implying that we are rebuilding. Tell me then, how can we be rebuilding? We have never built anything, we are still building. That's what bothers me. Why in the hell can't we run block? Is it because our backs are that bad, or is our line that bad, or is it both? It's got to be a little of both, but I don't see how we can go from a decent running team to the worst with supposedly improved personnel (be it from a new starting center, or players moving to back to their natural positions) and a quality offensive coaching staff centered around running the ball. This team has made so many bad decisions over the years (drafts, trades, etc) that we unfortunately still have a long ways to go. Now with Payne out, and Earl, and Lord knows who the hell else, we are in for a long season. I guess the glimmer of sunshine is that we will have a good draft choice (which i'm totally sick of, but if it's in the cards we may as well play them). Although there will be alot of pissed off people when we don't pick AP.

 

[Vinny]

And who was there before the additions this season that are standout players? Horn, McAllister, Will Smith, Jammal Brown, etc. What players did we have before free agency and the draft of that caliber? Andre Johnson and Dunta Robinson are the only ones that pop into my head that would come close.

We could have drafted Will Smith and Jammal Brown...along with bush and Colston. Crying that they have these guys isn't helping your argument....Enough with the homer drivel!

 

[profan]

Are you sure about that? The way I see it, every one of those teams can easily beat us. Until this team earns somewhat of an identity, I would not consider any team as less talented.

When i said less talented, i was not talking about being less talented than us, but less talented then the teams that have beaten us to date. I see these upcoming games being close and competitive win or lose. No the blowouts we have been seeing lately.

 

[Texansbacker]

New starters: Offense: WR Colston, QB Brees, RB Bush, RG Jahri Evans (rookie from DIIA), C Jeff Faine.

Defense: DT Hollis Thomas, LB Scott Fujita, LB Scott Shanle, LB Mike Simoneau (not one LB on the team plays this year, all the reserves are new as well), SS Roman Harper (Rookie, now done for year), SS Omar Stoutmire (starting in place of Harper, contributed before), P Steve Weatherford.

This doesn't get into all the backups, over half of which are new players as well. Hardly "a few new players".

Look, I'm not a Texan hater. I'm a huge Saints fan oviously, but I live around Houston and joined this site to keep up with what's going on with the local team besides what the media feeds me (which we all know is mostly bs). The fact is, we both had a lot of personnel decisions to be made by new staffs at the beginning of this season. So far, we've caught a lot of breaks with most of our decisions working out about as well as they could have. You guys have not gotten the same breaks yet. But I firmly believe that the two teams started during the offseason on very even grounds.

The Saints still have first round pick Jammal Brown at left tackle, John Stinchcomb at right tackle compared to Salaam and Winston. That right there is not a fair deck of cards.

Duece and Bush? or Dayne and Gado? Sure we could have had Bush but he wanted to break the bank and common thought at the time was that DD would be back for action.

Defense, the start of a rebuilt line has begun, still needing addtions especially after losing Seth Payne again. The linebackers have a solid foundation in rookie Demeco Ryans and hope to get Wong back this week. The secondary is not holding up and the return of Faggins should help ease some pain but it is definitely an area of need.

 

[texan279]

We could have drafted Will Smith and Jammal Brown...along with bush and Colston. Crying that they have these guys isn't helping your argument....Enough with the homer drivel!

How am I a homer by saying that we were a WORSE team before this season than the Saints were??? The point I am trying to make is they had more established talent than we did going into the season. I am not crying about anything. Earlier in the thread you tried to make it out like Payton is turning miracles in New Orleans and I am just pointing out that there was talent there when he took over and we have sucked since day one. I don't see where you get homer from at all.

 

[Vinny]

The Saints still have first round pick Jammal Brown at left tackle

Yeah, the guy we passed for Travis Johnson.

 

[Vinny]

How am I a homer by saying that we were a WORSE team before this season than the Saints were??? The point I am trying to make is they had more established talent than we did going into the season. I am not crying about anything.

You listed a ton of players we could have drafted or pulled in but we passed on all of them. We don't operate in a vaccum.....they are winning with guys we passed on. To cry about how these guys are good and not acknowledge that we passed on them for other players is ridiculous.

 

[texan279]

Yeah, the guy we passed for Travis Johnson.

And the guys who passed on him are no longer here...

 

[Vinny]

And the guys who passed on him are no longer here...

and tell me how this isn't relevant. We suck because of our decisions....no more, no less. Love your excuses...but they are weak.

 

[texan279]

You listed a ton of players we could have drafted or pulled in but we passed on all of them. We don't operate in a vaccum.....they are winning with guys we passed on. To cry about how these guys are good and not acknowledge that we passed on them for other players is ridiculous.

The old regime passed on them, not the new one. My point is the talent is there, whether we passed on the guys or not was not the point I was trying to make. And once again, I'm not crying about anything, just pointing out the fact there was more talent there when Payton took over than there was here when Kubiak took over.

 

[Vinny]

Old regime...new regime...same scouts. Sucks to be us. Still excusing instead of producing.

 

[texan279]

and tell me how this isn't relevant. We suck because of our decisions....no more, no less. Love your excuses...but they are weak.

So you are crying about the decisions that Casserly and Capers made? What's the point of that? It has nothing to do with our front office personnel now and their decisions.

 

[Vinny]

So you are crying about the decisions that Casserly and Capers made? What's the point of that? It has nothing to do with our front office personnel now and their decisions.

I'm not crying. You are the one crying that it's not fair to compare. Weak stuff 279...but I don't expect riveting insight from you.

 

[Texansbacker]

We could have drafted Will Smith and Jammal Brown...along with bush and Colston. Crying that they have these guys isn't helping your argument....Enough with the homer drivel!

Hindsight is always 20/20. The Texans have been trying to fill holes since they started but you must have forgotten that teams are built through the draft. And by the way, the Texans are an expansion team and have only had a handful of drafts, so somewhere in your argument reality must set in. That said, if Brown would have not been selected then we would not have Travis Johnson who filled a need at d-line along with an extra 3rd rounder (which turned into offensive tackle Winston who is now starting).

 

[texan279]

I'm not crying. You are the one crying that it's not fair to compare. Weak stuff 279...but I don't expect riveting insight from you.

Way to stray from the discussion at hand to personal attacks. By the way, the director of college scouting we have now is in his first year with us, so this excuse about failed drafts in the past because of the "same scouts" that are still here doesn't quite fly...

 

[Vinny]

Hindsight is always 20/20. The Texans have been trying to fill holes since they started but you must have forgotten that teams are built through the draft. And by the way, the Texans are an expansion team and have only had a handful of drafts, so somewhere in your argument reality must set in. That said, if Brown would have not been selected then we would not have Travis Johnson who filled a need at d-line along with an extra 3rd rounder (which turned into offensive tackle Winston who is now starting).

Hindsight is also reality. To just dismiss poor drafting and stating the Saints are more talented while forgetting we passed on all these guys is homer-drivel at it's finest.

 

[Vinny]

Way to stray from the discussion at hand to personal attacks. By the way, the director of college scouting we have now is in his first year with us, so this excuse about failed drafts in the past because of the "same scouts" that are still here doesn't quite fly...

It's not a personal attack....I don't think much of your insight. I'm just stating it plainly. Bobby Grier has been with us since day one.

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front_office_detail.php?PRKey=87&section=TH Front Office

 

[texan279]

It's not a personal attack....I don't think much of your insight. I'm just stating it plainly. Bobby Grier has been with us since day one.

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/front_office_detail.php?PRKey=87&section=TH Front Office

Bobby Grier is the Associate director of pro scouting, Dale Strahm is our new director of college scouting. I would think our director of college scouting would have more to do with draft selections than an associate of pro scouting...

 

[Vinny]

basically, we have the same scouting team. Nitpick it all you want...but the scouts get us the talent...the talent you claim it's unfair to compare with the Saints.

 

[Texansbacker]

Hindsight is also reality. To just dismiss poor drafting and stating the Saints are more talented while forgetting we passed on all these guys is homer-drivel at it's finest.

I thought the argument was the coaches performance this year? I thought they did a great job in the draft this year. You didn't? Past years drafts were not up to par but I guess that is why CC and DC are no longer here. We could have 2 second round picks playing today if Bennie Joppru and Tony Hollings were not selected but again I am not sure how that is related to the current coaching staff argument.

 

[Vinny]

hard to tell if we had a great draft....It is because we say it is? Once the players play up to their draft status...I'll consider it a great draft. Till then, the jury is out.

 

[Runner]

hard to tell if we had a great draft....It is because we say it is? Once the players play up to their draft status...I'll consider it a great draft. Till then, the jury is out.

Williams - need to see some more progress over the next couple of years.

Demeco - excellent pick.

Spencer - 1.5 games to review. I'm not voting him to the Pro Bowl yet. He gets hurt next year and fans will call him a bust and bad pick just like Joppru.

Winston - no PT worth reviewing. Can't start in front of Weigert.

Daniels - pre-season or regular season?

How can you hold off calling the draft great?

 

[Texansbacker]

hard to tell if we had a great draft....It is because we say it is? Once the players play up to their draft status...I'll consider it a great draft. Till then, the jury is out.

Ryans has exceeded my expectations. Spencer was looking good before he broke his leg and we will have tape soon on Winston. Mario has obviously not met the high expectations but I don't think many 1st picks ever do in the first 6 weeks of their rookie season. You certainly can't say Mario is a bust already, just as you cannot say the same of our coaching staff. That is not being a homer, just a realist. It takes rookies time to adjust and to grow into a superstar. It takes coaches time to right their ship as well when severely off course.

 

[tsip]

So you are crying about the decisions that Casserly and Capers made? What's the point of that? It has nothing to do with our front office personnel now and their decisions.

We've made a lot of bad decisions since C&C left, so let's focus on today.
First, the 'new(Kubiak & Co)' has turned our RB situation into a 'laughingstock.'
Second, under the 'new,' we have a weak secondary-not a lot of personnel changes were made in this area because (like our RB situation) Kubiak said we were fine--same with are LB/DL,etc.

Sure, Kubiak inherited a mess and that is why he got the job, so those are a given. The question is WHAT has Kubiak done to improve the team, to make it better than it was last year or his first day? Are we seeing steady or even any improvement from the teamn on a weekly basis? Is there any part of the team-as a whole-OF or DF or ST that is a major improvement or gives a hint that that area is headed in the right direction?

Are we building a 'foundation' for the future or are we still trying to 'find' ourselves? What things has Kubiak put into 'place' are an indication of 'better things to come?' I'm not expecting ALL of our problems to be fixed/solved over night, but I am questioning whether we've even started...

Effective decision making or lack there of can make or break a mgr in any business, and that includes the NFL. Like any other business, a decision made today can have an 'impact' now or somewhere down the line--short term vs long term. Saying this, has Gary made decisions that are effective, whether in the 'short' or the 'long?'

I'm not saying we should be a winning team this year, but I believe a) we should be competitive and b) we should be showing signs that the decisions we are making 'today' are headed in the right direction. IMO, those 2 things are not happening and--unlike some posters--I don't believe it should take 'years' to see any 'fruit' from Kubiak's decions.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I think McNair has to blow up or we'll be the Houston Clippers .

 

[Texansbacker]

We've made a lot of bad decisions since C&C left, so let's focus on today.
First, the 'new(Kubiak & Co)' has turned our RB situation into a 'laughingstock.'
Second, under the 'new,' we have a weak secondary-not a lot of personnel changes were made in this area because (like our RB situation) Kubiak said we were fine--same with are LB/DL,etc.

Sure, Kubiak inherited a mess and that is why he got the job, so those are a given. The question is WHAT has Kubiak done to improve the team, to make it better than it was last year or his first day? Are we seeing steady or even any improvement from the teamn on a weekly basis? Is there any part of the team-as a whole-OF or DF or ST that is a major improvement or gives a hint that that area is headed in the right direction?

Are we building a 'foundation' for the future or are we still trying to 'find' ourselves? What things has Kubiak put into 'place' are an indication of 'better things to come?' I'm not expecting ALL of our problems to be fixed/solved over night, but I am questioning whether we've even started...

Effective decision making or lack there of can make or break a mgr in any business, and that includes the NFL. Like any other business, a decision made today can have an 'impact' now or somewhere down the line--short term vs long term. Saying this, has Gary made decisions that are effective, whether in the 'short' or the 'long?'

I'm not saying we should be a winning team this year, but I believe a) we should be competitive and b) we should be showing signs that the decisions we are making 'today' are headed in the right direction. IMO, those 2 things are not happening and--unlike some posters--I don't believe it should take 'years' to see any 'fruit' from Kubiak's decions.

I think we showed improvement in the first half against a good dallas team. The defense got pressure and sacks on Bledsoe and held them to 3 points. All of that with no running game. The implosion occured in the 3rd quarter with 3 turnovers in 5 minutes. How can a coach overcome those type of mistakes against a team that is stocked with more talent?

 

[tsip]

:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall "I think we showed improvement in the first half against a good dallas team. The defense got pressure and sacks on Bledsoe and held them to 3 points. All of that with no running game. The implosion occured in the 3rd quarter with 3 turnovers in 5 minutes. How can a coach overcome those type of mistakes against a team that is stocked with more talent?"

We had all kinds of oppurtunities in the first half and did zilch--running up the gut twice from the 1 yd line when we have no running game--give me a break. As long as the score was close, Kubiak's game plan was to do 'nothing.' Kubiak's excuse was the weather! What a crock! What are we going to do when we go to New England or Cleveland? FORFIET?

'...overcome mistakes?' How did the Cowboys over come their mistakes, like 4 face mask penalties? They kept their composure and their focus and--unlike the Texans have failed to do all year--they played for 4 qtrs. Too, we're going to get ints when we throw to the same WR over and over again who is tripled covered but-you know what-excuses for 'justifying' losing' are a Texan Trademark. IMO, this team will never win when as long as there is a fan base that accepts 'excuses.' Look at the winning teams/programs-Cohwer,Parcells, Belechick--you won't hear excuses from anybody related to these teams, including the fans.

We had no game plan in this game focused at the Cowboys--look at the Eagles. They 'killed' Dallas with a 'verticle' passing game, especaially exploiting poor coverage by Roy Williams--what was our GP? Dink and dunk--Carr did not even avg 5 ypa--did we even try to stretch the field?

Kubiak coached this game 'not to lose.' As long as this game was close, he was going to do nothing. Then, when the Cowboys started scoring, he made no adjustments--still dinking and dunking.

So far, I see one difference between Capers and Kubiak--where Capers says 'execute,' Kubiak says 'advantage.' Caper's team did not 'execute' plays, while Gary's team does not take 'advantage' of situations---both are excuses...not what we need all over again..........

 

[Jerry Jones]

I think McNair has to blow up or we'll be the Houston Clippers .

i don't care who you are thats funny right there.....

 

[mexican_texan]

Only homers thought we were going to be competitive this season. Granted, I was thinking playoffs, but I also expected playoffs last year. We are clearly rebuilding and the offense is learning a complex scheme. Losing our starting RB, OLB(Wong), KR, and our second corner in Faggins hurt this team. Not to mention how young our D is(we are putting our hopes on a guy that is barely old enough to legally drink.) We are rebuilding. Simple as that. You gotta have a foundation before you can build a skyscraper.

 

[tsip]

"You gotta have a foundation before you can build a skyscraper."


...OK, so what are we doing now on the field to build that foundation? A foundation needs blocks--what blocks do we have so far that we have started toward constructing our foundation?

 

[mexican_texan]

"You gotta have a foundation before you can build a skyscraper."


...OK, so what are we doing now on the field to build that foundation? A foundation needs blocks--what blocks do we have so far that we have started toward constructing our foundation?

The systems. We have the crates, we still need the blocks.