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Defense proves a point

Seegara

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Now we see that the defense is about as good without JJ Watt as it was with him. When the talented JJ was in the lineup he was allowed to move around to wherever a weakness was spotted or imagined. This fattened his personal statistics but didn't improve the defense very much, as it left a gap in the position he was supposed to be playing.
If JJ is able to come back, let him play his own position as defensive end. Then he will help the defense as much as a DE can, for he will be the best there is at that position. The overall D will be better because of his presence.
Now the controversial point is out there to land on, so let's have an argument.
 
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To be honest I was never a big fan of seeing Watt move around just moments before a snap and having a Wilfork, Covington, Mercilus, Clowney, or whomever left in limbo and looking halfway clueless as to what their next best course of action should be.

This defense, any defense, is not just flat out better without one of the best defensive players ever as a ready option. That's just silly. But I would like to see him come back, when he's ready, to a defense that's learned to swim without relying on him to buoy it and now anchor it from primarily his best spot of attack.
 
Seventh ranked defense according to nfl.com. J.J. is great, but we seem to be doing just fine without him.
I still want him back of course!
 
I think you're all smoking crack. & not the good stuff either. You're smoking that crap that f'ks your brain so bad you beat your mama, steal her money then say it's her fault for not breastfeeding.


statistically after facing some of the worst offenses this team ever faced, we look aiight.

But a 33 year old garden gnome just dropped a bill on a Jj Watt-less defense.

A third string rookie with a week to prepare led an offense to 27 points against us.

Sam Bradford looked like Kurt Warner (Super Bowl Kurt Warner) against us.

There's been a big drop off on this teams defense this year. Just hadn't shown up yet.

The Cleveland Browns held Demarco "95 yards & 2 TDs against the Texans" Murray to 61 yards & a TD on 21 carries.

Jj freelances & it hurt our defense early last season, but when the defense took off, it wasn't because he stopped freelancing, it was because the other guys knew to fill that gap. Usually the LB who was behind him, or James Simon. They knew Jj was going to make the play, or funnel the play right to them.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think you're all smoking crack. & not the good stuff either. You're smoking that crap that f'ks your brain so bad you beat your mama, steal her money then say it's her fault for not breastfeeding.


statistically after facing some of the worst offenses this team ever faced, we look aiight.

But a 33 year old garden gnome just dropped a bill on a Jj Watt-less defense.

A third string rookie with a week to prepare led an offense to 27 points against us.

Sam Bradford looked like Kurt Warner (Super Bowl Kurt Warner) against us.

There's been a big drop off on this teams defense this year. Just hadn't shown up yet.

The Cleveland Browns held Demarco "95 yards & 2 TDs against the Texans" Murray to 61 yards & a TD on 21 carries.

Jj freelances & it hurt our defense early last season, but when the defense took off, it wasn't because he stopped freelancing, it was because the other guys knew to fill that gap. Usually the LB who was behind him, or James Simon. They knew Jj was going to make the play, or funnel the play right to them.
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I'm with you, they are doing ok without Watt but you can see the falloff.

Stats maybe what people like to point out about JJ, but it's not what makes him great.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think you're all smoking crack. & not the good stuff either. You're smoking that crap that f'ks your brain so bad you beat your mama, steal her money then say it's her fault for not breastfeeding.


statistically after facing some of the worst offenses this team ever faced, we look aiight.

But a 33 year old garden gnome just dropped a bill on a Jj Watt-less defense.

A third string rookie with a week to prepare led an offense to 27 points against us.

Sam Bradford looked like Kurt Warner (Super Bowl Kurt Warner) against us.

There's been a big drop off on this teams defense this year. Just hadn't shown up yet.

The Cleveland Browns held Demarco "95 yards & 2 TDs against the Texans" Murray to 61 yards & a TD on 21 carries.

Jj freelances & it hurt our defense early last season, but when the defense took off, it wasn't because he stopped freelancing, it was because the other guys knew to fill that gap. Usually the LB who was behind him, or James Simon. They knew Jj was going to make the play, or funnel the play right to them.
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Damn exactly my thoughts. Big drop off without Watt !
 
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Without Watt, we're a good defense. With Watt, we're an elite defense that is capable of carrying this team to the SB.

JJ commands so much attention that it makes life easier for everyone.

I think this defense is doing better than expected w/o Watt because of the improved play by the young guys like KJo, Bernardrick, & Clowney. We would be so much better, though, with JJ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I will say, after watching Sunday nights game, it looked like a lot of attention was paid to keeping Andrew Luck in the pocket.

He was rarely allowed to scramble & create. Most of the time we had someone rushing every gap, the ends especially played under control, not letting themselves get ran out of the play.

the times we didn't & left a spy on him he picked up yards with his legs. But other than that, I think the Texans exposed how poorly Luck plays from the pocket. It was pretty much one read & panic.

I mentioned in another thread, Andrew Luck's stats were nearly identical to Osweiler's & we know what we thought of Osweiler's game.

Luck is talented, physically gifted & four years ago, his understanding of the game was well advanced. Mentally, I don't believe his understanding of the game has progressed near enough.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think you're all smoking crack. & not the good stuff either. You're smoking that crap that f'ks your brain so bad you beat your mama, steal her money then say it's her fault for not breastfeeding.
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This right here ^^^

This might as well be one of those Darwin threads where we're wondering if chimpanzees are posting on the internet or something.


Hits crack pipe and sucks the smoke down for several seconds. Cough, cough, mumbles "We're a better team without J.J. Watt. **** him." Coughing ensues. :spit:
 
HOU-TEX said:
To say the current defense is just as good without Watt is ludicrous
Click to expand...

HX6alxU.jpg
 
HOU-TEX said:
The Colts hadn't had a 100 yard rusher in 3 years.......until Sunday night.
Click to expand...

I'll counter that useless stat with this one; Indy had never lost 2 games in a row to us until Sunday night.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?tm1=clt&tm2=htx&yr=all



If I had the choice of Andrew Luck going ham against our defense or letting old ass Frank Gore run for 106 yards and a Colts loss - you best believe Frank Gore can enjoy his stats for the day.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I think you're all smoking crack. & not the good stuff either. You're smoking that crap that f'ks your brain so bad you beat your mama, steal her money then say it's her fault for not breastfeeding.


statistically after facing some of the worst offenses this team ever faced, we look aiight.

But a 33 year old garden gnome just dropped a bill on a Jj Watt-less defense.

A third string rookie with a week to prepare led an offense to 27 points against us.

Sam Bradford looked like Kurt Warner (Super Bowl Kurt Warner) against us.

There's been a big drop off on this teams defense this year. Just hadn't shown up yet.

The Cleveland Browns held Demarco "95 yards & 2 TDs against the Texans" Murray to 61 yards & a TD on 21 carries.

Jj freelances & it hurt our defense early last season, but when the defense took off, it wasn't because he stopped freelancing, it was because the other guys knew to fill that gap. Usually the LB who was behind him, or James Simon. They knew Jj was going to make the play, or funnel the play right to them.
Click to expand...


Can I make an correction here TK?

In those first four games the Texans only lined JJ on one side. Remember on the other forum we were discussing this very exact thing. I wrote back then why are they only lining him up on one side basically neutralizing his strength. Once they went back to move him all over the defensive front, that's when the defense took off. IMO of course but you are right as well.


OP JJ's presence out there is missed big time. Yes the defense is stepping up like they suppose but JJ ability to change the course of a game is dearly missed.
 
It ain't his stats that made him great and missed on this defense...it was the timeliness of the plays he made. Dude always came up with a sack or stuff or forced the opposition into 1 of the 2 b/c of the pressure he created and attention he demanded. So for that reason I will politely :thumbdown the premise of this thread.
 
PapaL said:
I'll counter that useless stat with this one; Indy had never lost 2 games in a row to us until Sunday night.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?tm1=clt&tm2=htx&yr=all



If I had the choice of Andrew Luck going ham against our defense or letting old ass Frank Gore run for 106 yards and a Colts loss - you best believe Frank Gore can enjoy his stats for the day.
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Saying the Colts having a 100 yard rusher for the 1st time in 3 years was just plopping a cherry on top of a Texans rush D that was already in the bottom 5 of the league.
 
Texecutioner said:
This right here ^^^

This might as well be one of those Darwin threads where we're wondering if chimpanzees are posting on the internet or something.


Hits crack pipe and sucks the smoke down for several seconds. Cough, cough, mumbles "We're a better team without J.J. Watt. **** him." Coughing ensues. :spit:
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^ Maybe it's because Clowney and Mercilus stepped up. That would be a point worth advancing.
The defense is not better without JJ, but it has been as good. But the forum would be better without some of the posters.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Saying the Colts having a 100 yard rusher for the 1st time in 3 years was just plopping a cherry on top of a Texans rush D that was already in the bottom 5 of the league.
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It's really kinda funny, but he did it twice. Shortly after he gained 100 yards, Mercilus dropped him for a loss, taking Gore down to 99 yards on the day.

He then came back & picked up a few yards to finish with more than a hundred yards.
 
dream_team said:
Without Watt, we're a good defense. With Watt, we're an elite defense that is capable of carrying this team to the SB.

JJ commands so much attention that it makes life easier for everyone.

I think this defense is doing better than expected w/o Watt because of the improved play by the young guys like KJo, Bernardrick, & Clowney. We would be so much better, though, with JJ.
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Wasn't Kevin Johnson placed on IR earlier today? I had just gotten home so I may have missed it. Next man up? Man, our secondary depth is going to be tested.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's really kinda funny, but he did it twice. Shortly after he gained 100 yards, Mercilus dropped him for a loss, taking Gore down to 99 yards on the day.

He then came back & picked up a few yards to finish with more than a hundred yards.
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In overtime.... still no 100 in regular time, so it don't count for me
 
Wow... while I expect this sort of low IQ thread from someone like Seegara who is way out in left field as usual, the couple of posters that actually agreed with him is very surprising. A person has to be all kinds of stupid to think our D is just as good with Watt than without, which by itself is completely false. For one, it completely fails to take into consideration that both Mercilus breaking out and Clowney coming around now that he is finally getting consistent playing time. Then there is also KJ transitioning very well from a promising rookie start before getting sidelined the last game. The D is not as good without JJ unless we are talking about rehab JJ coming back too early from BACK SURGERY and even then, that's kind of iffy. This isn't even factoring in the fact that Watt has this uncanny ability to create a great defensive play when we absolutely need it. Point is, the D is not as good without Watt, we just finally have a few players that have developed their potential enough to collectively compensate his devastating loss this season.
 
Mollywhopper said:
To be honest I was never a big fan of seeing Watt move around just moments before a snap and having a Wilfork, Covington, Mercilus, Clowney, or whomever left in limbo and looking halfway clueless as to what their next best course of action should be.

This defense, any defense, is not just flat out better without one of the best defensive players ever as a ready option. That's just silly. But I would like to see him come back, when he's ready, to a defense that's learned to swim without relying on him to buoy it and now anchor it from primarily his best spot of attack.
Click to expand...

An interesting aspect of this defense is something Ted Johnson has talked about with regards to Romeo Crennel and assignments. J.J. often blows his assignment, but he's so good that he makes up for it with big plays so it is not a liability. However, he said it probably drives Crennel nuts because so much of his scheme is based on players doing their jobs and being in the right place for the plays to work correctly.

Basically, if J.J. was not so dominant and continually messed up his assignments without the big plays it would be to the overall detriment of the defense.

What we are seeing now, with J.J. out, is a RAC defense that is operating as it is supposed to as designed. This, along with having some solid talent, is why it is still a strong defense without J.J. in there.
 
3. Houston Texans (10)
Current nickel package: CB Johnathan Joseph, CB A.J. Bouye, SCB Kevin Johnson, S Andre Hal, S Quintin Demps

The surprise out of this group has been former UDFA A.J. Bouye, who has certainly earned his playing time. He currently just edges out Chris Harris Jr. for the top coverage grade among cornerbacks this season, and has yet to surrender over 100 receiving yards on the year. Oddly enough, Johnathan Joseph has the lowest coverage grade in the Texans’ secondary after ranking among the best coverage cornerbacks in the league last season. The Houston secondary has also not had the benefit of J.J. Watt’s seemingly constant pressure on quarterbacks this season.
 
If Watt returns, I'd like to see how team would do with him fixed at his position most of time. He would still be very good and others would excel. I just hope we have the problem of deciding how JJ will play.
 
thunderkyss said:
3. Houston Texans (10)
Current nickel package: CB Johnathan Joseph, CB A.J. Bouye, SCB Kevin Johnson, S Andre Hal, S Quintin Demps

The surprise out of this group has been former UDFA A.J. Bouye, who has certainly earned his playing time. He currently just edges out Chris Harris Jr. for the top coverage grade among cornerbacks this season, and has yet to surrender over 100 receiving yards on the year. Oddly enough, Johnathan Joseph has the lowest coverage grade in the Texans’ secondary after ranking among the best coverage cornerbacks in the league last season. The Houston secondary has also not had the benefit of J.J. Watt’s seemingly constant pressure on quarterbacks this season.
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Bouye is returning to his 2014 stats 59 tackles 1 fumble recovery and 3 INTs. Joseph is again playing hurt. Hopefully there will be a smooth transition when Joseph leaves and Bouye replaces him. I want to see Nelson and James II improving.
 
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chenjy9 said:
Wow... while I expect this sort of low IQ thread from someone like Seegara who is way out in left field as usual, the couple of posters that actually agreed with him is very surprising. A person has to be all kinds of stupid to think our D is just as good with Watt than without, which by itself is completely false. For one, it completely fails to take into consideration that both Mercilus breaking out and Clowney coming around now that he is finally getting consistent playing time. Then there is also KJ transitioning very well from a promising rookie start before getting sidelined the last game. The D is not as good without JJ unless we are talking about rehab JJ coming back too early from BACK SURGERY and even then, that's kind of iffy. This isn't even factoring in the fact that Watt has this uncanny ability to create a great defensive play when we absolutely need it. Point is, the D is not as good without Watt, we just finally have a few players that have developed their potential enough to collectively compensate his devastating loss this season.
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Actually, chenjy9 stumbled upon a good argument, apparently incidental to the intent of his post.
We didn't say the defense is as good as it would be if it included JJ now. That question was left open for discussion.
My opening statement was that the D was as good now as it used to be with JJ playing. I then expressed the opinion that this was because JJ had been encouraged not to play his position.
For somebody to contend that the present defense is just as good because Clowney, Mercilus, etc stepped up, that is a fair and sensible argument. The next question would be Were they able to step up because everybody else were playing their own positions?
Without meaning to, the poster agreed with my opening statement when he admitted that JD et al. were able to compensate JJ's loss by stepping up. Some people with a compromised ability to read and write wouldn't see the truth if it bit them on the azs.
 
Seegara said:
Actually, chenjy9 stumbled upon a good argument, apparently incidental to the intent of his post.
We didn't say the defense is as good as it would be if it included JJ now. That question was left open for discussion.
My opening statement was that the D was as good now as it used to be with JJ playing. I then expressed the opinion that this was because JJ had been encouraged not to play his position.
For somebody to contend that the present defense is just as good because Clowney, Mercilus, etc stepped up, that is a fair and sensible argument. The next question would be Were they able to step up because everybody else were playing their own positions?
Without meaning to, the poster agreed with my opening statement when he admitted that JD et al. were able to compensate JJ's loss by stepping up. Some people with a compromised ability to read and write wouldn't see the truth if it bit them on the azs.
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I didn't and don't stumble upon anything. I leave that to members with a low level post history like yours or did you forget your idiocy in creating horrible threads and then neg repping people who rightfully called you out on it. It is as clear as day watching our D this year and the last few years when JJ was healthy to know that the D without him was not as good as with healthy JJ. Mercilus, Clowney, and KJ did not "step up" due to playing their own positions. This is a completely dumbass assumption that you are trying to make in your woeful attempt to attack your betters. All three of those players were already stepping up last year. Mercilus broke out last year. Clowney, when healthy, was good last year as well. The same applies for KJ. This was all WITH Watt on the field. This year, the reason I say they compensated by stepping up was not any sort of affirmation to your stupid as hell premise, but that they continued to blossom and improve and standout with the absence of Watt. With Watt, they would continue to remain good, just like how they were getting good last year WITH Watt only people would probably notice it a lot less.
 
Seegara said:
A typical immediate rant without taking time to read and absorb what was written before. Unless you're running for King of all Fools, chenjy9, I'd suggest you shut your g$%&*#$ mouth, or better yet, do everybody a favor and leave the forum.
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LOL typical response back from you when you have nothing remotely intelligent left to say, lashing out futilely. :p Too bad you can't hide behind neg reps anymore huh?
 
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JB said:
wait... how do you do that on this site?
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I remember you used to be to pick different types of "rep" in the old system. It was from this thread. Page 3 is when you see mention of him neg repping out of "retaliation." Was quite hilarious actually.
 
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chenjy9 said:
I remember you used to be to pick different types of "rep" in the old system. It was from this thread. Page 3 is when you see mention of him neg repping out of "retaliation." Was quite hilarious actually.
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hahaha we all had a good laugh at that one
 
thunderkyss said:
I will say, after watching Sunday nights game, it looked like a lot of attention was paid to keeping Andrew Luck in the pocket.

He was rarely allowed to scramble & create. Most of the time we had someone rushing every gap, the ends especially played under control, not letting themselves get ran out of the play.

the times we didn't & left a spy on him he picked up yards with his legs. But other than that, I think the Texans exposed how poorly Luck plays from the pocket. It was pretty much one read & panic.

I mentioned in another thread, Andrew Luck's stats were nearly identical to Osweiler's & we know what we thought of Osweiler's game.

Luck is talented, physically gifted & four years ago, his understanding of the game was well advanced. Mentally, I don't believe his understanding of the game has progressed near enough.
Click to expand...


I don't think Indy has done a good job with Luck. Coaching him or putting talent around him.
 
Seegara said:
Now we see that the defense is about as good without JJ Watt as it was with him. When the talented JJ was in the lineup he was allowed to move around to wherever a weakness was spotted or imagined. This fattened his personal statistics but didn't improve the defense very much, as it left a gap in the position he was supposed to be playing.
If JJ is able to come back, let him play his own position as defensive end. Then he will help the defense as much as a DE can, for he will be the best there is at that position. The overall D will be better because of his presence.
Now the controversial point is out there to land on, so let's have an argument.
Click to expand...

We are clearly not watching the same football games... Maybe take a year off, go on IR with JJ this year, and try again next season. Ouch.
 
Lol this is beyond ignorant. J.J. is the best defender in the league. Any success the Texans have had this season is because of further development of other players on D. If Watt was here, the D would be better than last season. There are no if, ands, or buts about it.
 
chenjy9 said:
I remember you used to be to pick different types of "rep" in the old system. It was from this thread. Page 3 is when you see mention of him neg repping out of "retaliation." Was quite hilarious actually.
Click to expand...

Man, I forgot about all of this thread. Read through it and couldn't stop laughing. :lol:
 
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Something good can still come of this thread if it filters down to the coaching staff and they ask JJ to play his classic position first, in the event he makes it back.
 
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