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Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB (Yates named #2)
- Thread starter legacy_gt
- Start date
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
BullBlitz
Section 331
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
No, it's not a great piece of writing, but it's way more entertaining the way you put it.
He is the editor.
Wow. Ok, yeah... That publication sucks.
I agree that saying Keenum "has the early edge" as the Texans backup seems like an overstatement. Especially considering they haven't played a preseason game yet. But I don't see the "overly fawning pile of ****" you are referring to. He talks about Keenum and uses a couple of quotes from Kubiak. And while TJ may be taking the majority of 2nd team snaps, does that mean that much at this point? Keo is getting the majority of 1st team snaps over Swearinger, and I don't think anyone believes that will stand when the season begins. I just don't see the outrageousness in this that you seem to.
To be fair, there was a room full of Texan fans booing Watt when he was selected. Most are now wearing 99 jerseys.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Someone on 610 after practice was saying that they heard Kubiak say that Yates is showing no arm strength.
Steph generally does a really good job reporting on the Texans and we all appreciate her. When it comes to Case though she is obviously biased against him for some reason. In the end she may be correct but, for me, my money is on Case and he's a better game performer than practice performer. Let the preseason begin!
I agree she's biased against Case as well. Steph does do a good job. She's said the TJ has looked better than last year. There's actually conflicting reports on that. A friend saw TJ recently and he looked off. PLus she mentions that while Case has improved, it's expected. There's a real competition between Case and TJ and I just think it helps the team.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
No offense but Steph has seen a full week of practice and your credentials are.....
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Actually, what she's been saying is "don't read too much into things" as practice updates are relayed. Practice reps aren't always meaningful indicators. This isn't her first rodeo, and she knows it's best to remain prudent in assumptions/predictions at this stage.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
It's an easy hook to get page clicks to hype up a "Local Boy Strikes It Big" headline.
It's also easy to get caught up in groupthink -- media types congregate together at practices.
Steph avoids both of those pitfalls, which means she has integrity and experience. It's not bias against a player -- it's just she's not seeing it. And she's not alone. LZ and Seth haven't declared Case the #2.
Case has made huge strides. He knows the offense now. Everyone sees that. Tweeter-dee and tweeter-dum extrapolate that into a QB controversy. Pffft. Who's the most popular QB in town? The backup. In this case - excuse the pun - it's the local boy backup. It's early. Let's see how it plays out against other teams.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
So what you're saying is don't get too excited when they run the "Keenum seizes inside track to unseat Schaub" story later in the week?
mmwest
Practice Squad
and came from Jacksonville at that. . Hell if I knew how write correctly I could be the Texans reporter...............and speak without swearing would help too!
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Huh? You know not of what you speak.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Uh... What's the frequency Kenneth?
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
You're thinking of Tania Guglamoogli.... Steph is not a reporter, she's a fan like you & me who has devoted her time to write a blog, work with the chron to get media credentials so she can get access to places you & I can't go.
But, as far as I know, she's not getting paid. She's doing it to help you get the info you want.
And so have others who are reporting things differently ...
Not the guy who wrote the article in question.
Look, Tj Yates is the back up, he's #2. Kubiak has said nothing different. No one from the Texans organization has hinted different. Yes, they've said there is competition, but no one other than this guy has said anything about Keenum gaining any "edge"
I like Case. I'd love it if Keenum can win the starting role & continue his winning ways in Houston. Steph may have some bias against Keenum(I've never thought so), but here all she is saying is that the guy who wrote this article made up the "edge"
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Friday is not so far off now. Not sure how much time he'll see. The first pre-season game I would imagine who ever goes in right after Schaub is done is the back up, at least for now. Frankly I'd be surprised if that's Case. Very pleasantly surprised, but surprised.
My guess is a couple of possessions for Schaub, at least two full quarters and then some for TJ, and the left overs to Case. If TJ isn't ready to be the backup by now he is in trouble anyway, not withstanding Case.
My guess is a couple of possessions for Schaub, at least two full quarters and then some for TJ, and the left overs to Case. If TJ isn't ready to be the backup by now he is in trouble anyway, not withstanding Case.
I didn't read the article as the author saying that keenum is ahead of Yates. I read it as it saying that he has a good shot to get the #2 position.
No offense to Steph, but honestly my feeling on a lot of what she says and types is based on: 'those guys' with opinions I don't like...it's ridiculous; listen to me and what I have to say about it'.
They'll be plenty of time for everyone to see and debate who they think should be the back up. This article is just someone talking up keenum for the job. Who cares.
No offense to Steph, but honestly my feeling on a lot of what she says and types is based on: 'those guys' with opinions I don't like...it's ridiculous; listen to me and what I have to say about it'.
They'll be plenty of time for everyone to see and debate who they think should be the back up. This article is just someone talking up keenum for the job. Who cares.
GoCoogs
Waterboy
I don't have the benefit of being at Training Camp, and have to rely on what has been reported. From all accounts I have not heard of anything suggesting that Yates play on the field has distanced himself from Case.
That being the case, I don't see why it is such a stretch to entertain the thought that Case might win the backup job.
Texans_Chick seems to suggest that there is no possibility of this occurring. I read her blog and her reasons why. I understand that Case has practice squad eligibility and Yates does not. But I have still yet to hear any accounts that Yates play is significantly better than Keenum's so far this year.
This will all play out soon enough, and Yates may be the best QB for the job, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not count out Case Keenum.
That being the case, I don't see why it is such a stretch to entertain the thought that Case might win the backup job.
Texans_Chick seems to suggest that there is no possibility of this occurring. I read her blog and her reasons why. I understand that Case has practice squad eligibility and Yates does not. But I have still yet to hear any accounts that Yates play is significantly better than Keenum's so far this year.
This will all play out soon enough, and Yates may be the best QB for the job, but I don't think it's unreasonable to not count out Case Keenum.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I think the point is that TJ's play doesn't have to be significantly better than Keenum's. If he's better at all, he keeps his backup role.
The best chance for Keenum is just to make the team as one of the backup QBs.
Brady started out as a fourth string QB.
Flutie, after a year in the CFL, joined the NFL as a fourth string QB.
Jim Zorn made it as a third string QB his first year, but was cut early.
He latched on with the Seahawks the following year.
Dave Krieg was the third string QB his first two years.
Jeff Garcia started his career in the CFL as a third string QB, and didn't make the NFL until his fifth year.
Jake Delhome was on the PS for two years before making it as a third string QB.
It doesn't matter where you start, is what I try to say.
And I honestly can't agree that Keenum was horrible last year.
A horrible QB doesn't make the PS; it doesn't compute.
Brady started out as a fourth string QB.
Flutie, after a year in the CFL, joined the NFL as a fourth string QB.
Jim Zorn made it as a third string QB his first year, but was cut early.
He latched on with the Seahawks the following year.
Dave Krieg was the third string QB his first two years.
Jeff Garcia started his career in the CFL as a third string QB, and didn't make the NFL until his fifth year.
Jake Delhome was on the PS for two years before making it as a third string QB.
It doesn't matter where you start, is what I try to say.
And I honestly can't agree that Keenum was horrible last year.
A horrible QB doesn't make the PS; it doesn't compute.
GoCoogs
Waterboy
I am good with that, that's the way it should be.
I haven't heard anyone say Case is now the #2 .... only that (except for Steph) he has looked really good and is pushing TJ.
Personally, if I were the coaching staff and, at the end of preseason, Case has not asserted himself as the clear #2, then I would keep TJ as the #2 because of his experience. However, I would not risk losing Case being claimed off the PS.
I believe in Case and think he will start in this league. I don't expect it to be this year. But, I do believe he has more upside than TJ.
Personally, if I were the coaching staff and, at the end of preseason, Case has not asserted himself as the clear #2, then I would keep TJ as the #2 because of his experience. However, I would not risk losing Case being claimed off the PS.
I believe in Case and think he will start in this league. I don't expect it to be this year. But, I do believe he has more upside than TJ.
Ok you are right. College success always guarantees NFL success.
Signed,
Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, JP Losman, Graham Harell, Brady Quinn, David Klingler, Todd Marinivich, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Tim Tebow, Jeff George, David Carr, Joey Harrington, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, and Ryan Leaf.
Not worth replying to.
"grabs the early edge" means he has the early lead, he's on the inside track, it's his to lose.
That's just how you're taking it. If I'm studying for a test and I put in extra hours of study time I'm gaining and edge. If I am in line for a possible promotion and I put in extra work, I'm trying to gain an edge.
I just took the article as building keenum up as putting in extra work to gain whatever edge he could. Not that he's now in the lead for the back up qb job. I don't know what Yates is doing, but no one wrote an article about him. He could be doing things to gain an edge too.
But regardless of what the title is, the article says nothing about keenum being ahead of Yates.
They said he has the edge, not trying to gain an edge which would have been more accurate going by the other info we've gotten so far.
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Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
That's not what the title says. Read it again. It says he grabs early edge. You're intepreting it as THE edge...However, I'm reading it as AN edge. Considering what the article actually says, I think AN edge is the best way to read it, but to each his/her own.
Sent from my Lap Top using The regular website
I won't try to interpret the title, but the article itself doesn't claim anything really. The strongest sentence was that Keenum is gaining on Yates.
This sounds like the correct scenario, in my eyes.
Gaining on means that Keenum is still trailing (for whatever reason); he has yet to surpass Yates.
Even those who who think that Keenum wasn't much of anything last year agreed that he has made good stride.
The only way that Yates can keep the same distance is for him to improve by the same amount, something I haven't heard from anybody, including TC or Lance Z.
By those accounts, it should be clear that Keenum is gaining on Yates; by how much, I don't know.
Now, more on undrafted QBs.
Kurt Warner wasn't doing anything his first four years after college.
He only joined the NFL as a third string QB in his fifth year.
The Seahawks had three QBs in 1997; they only brought in Kitna as third stringer when their starter went down with an injury.
Romo was a third stringer in 2004.
He wasn't thought of very highly entering 2005, as the Cowboys signed veteran Testaverde and traded a third rounder to obtain Drew Henson.
Quincy Carter was the starter (a former second rounder in 2001.)
It looked as if Romo was about to be cut when Carter failed a drug test; who knows where Romo might be now had Carter stayed clean.
As far as not being concern about another team claiming a young QB off waiver; it sure sounds logical, but there's always a risk.
Matt Moore was an UDFA in 07 when the Cowboys waived him on Sep 1.
The Panthers scooped him up the next day.
Kurt Warner wasn't doing anything his first four years after college.
He only joined the NFL as a third string QB in his fifth year.
The Seahawks had three QBs in 1997; they only brought in Kitna as third stringer when their starter went down with an injury.
Romo was a third stringer in 2004.
He wasn't thought of very highly entering 2005, as the Cowboys signed veteran Testaverde and traded a third rounder to obtain Drew Henson.
Quincy Carter was the starter (a former second rounder in 2001.)
It looked as if Romo was about to be cut when Carter failed a drug test; who knows where Romo might be now had Carter stayed clean.
As far as not being concern about another team claiming a young QB off waiver; it sure sounds logical, but there's always a risk.
Matt Moore was an UDFA in 07 when the Cowboys waived him on Sep 1.
The Panthers scooped him up the next day.
Everyone today on 610 (mark) is saying Keenum is doing well but all comes down to the preseason games.
Haters can hate but Case is making a run at 2nd. If he's working really hard and given a chance to play in the pre-season (something I feel he didn't last yr) and playing well, he will be the 2nd guy.
I really like Yates. He showed he can run and throw. But he had a terrible last year and some of those decisions last year were terrible. He's going into his 3rd year and Yates hasn't shown some significant improvement.
If anything, the battle between the two (TJvsCase) makes the team much better.
Haters can hate but Case is making a run at 2nd. If he's working really hard and given a chance to play in the pre-season (something I feel he didn't last yr) and playing well, he will be the 2nd guy.
I really like Yates. He showed he can run and throw. But he had a terrible last year and some of those decisions last year were terrible. He's going into his 3rd year and Yates hasn't shown some significant improvement.
If anything, the battle between the two (TJvsCase) makes the team much better.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
First, it depends on the preseason. When Moore was picked up, he was coming off of a preseason where he had a 72% completion rate, and a 100.1 QB rating. I think virtually everybody expects it to improve, but consider that in his rookie season, Case's preseason showed a completion percentage of 50%, and a rating of 68.8. If Chase has a QB rating of over 100 this preseason, I think there's an excellent chance he'll be on the Texans 53 man roster.
As to Mr. Daniel, your memory is a bit off. Yeah, he did end up with the Saints the next day, but he ended up there because nobody claimed him off of waivers, and for whatever reason he chose to be on the Saints practice squad rather than the Redskins. He actually did get promoted to the 53 man roster in late Sept. of his rookie year, but he also ended up getting waived 3 times that season (twice from the active roster, and once from the PS). It was actually January of 2010 before he was promoted to the 53 man roster and stayed there.
Look - I don't think think there are many folks (even within the context of this thread) saying Case has zero chance to become a legitimate NFL QB, but just like there are a few folks who (IMO) are unrealistically adamant in their stance that he's destined to be a starter in the NFL, there's some who (for whatever reason) choose to write off his chances prematurely.
Then we have Gary Danielson who was undrafted and spent two years in
the WFL before making it a career in the NFL.
Steve Deberg was drafted at #275 overall, which is basically an UDFA.
He went on to a long career after not making the roster his first year.
A lesser name is Jay Fielder, who was undrafted.
After not playing in 1995, he became a college coach for two years before making it to the NFL in 1998, finishing with a career 37-23 record.
the WFL before making it a career in the NFL.
Steve Deberg was drafted at #275 overall, which is basically an UDFA.
He went on to a long career after not making the roster his first year.
A lesser name is Jay Fielder, who was undrafted.
After not playing in 1995, he became a college coach for two years before making it to the NFL in 1998, finishing with a career 37-23 record.
Romo wasn't going anywhere, well, sorta... The Cowboys thought they had something special the minute they signed him. At least their offensive coordinator Sean Peyton did. Sean Peyton was very familiar with Tony Romo as they both were quarterbacks for Eastern Illinois.
It may be urban legend, but the way I heard it someone from his alma mater asked Payton to take a look at Tony Romo. Payton got familiar with him & "worked" with him while he was at Eastern Illinois. Payton got on with the Cowboys under Bill Parcels.
The way it was told to me, was the Payton wanted to bring Romo to Nawl'ns, but Parcel wouldn't allow it. Had Quincy Carter been able to stay clean & continued as the Cowboys starting QB, Romo would have gone to New Orleans with Sean Payton.
Basically, you're saying that Romo would have been cut by the Cowboys, right?
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
That Daniels cleared waivers? Yeah - I am.
From the article you linked:
That Daniel signed with the Saints as a PS player? Yeah - I am.
From the Sept. 7th New Orleans Times Picayune.
LINK
What do you think McGee's chances are of beating Keenum out for the #3 spot?
It's the same for Tj.
We are going to need one, or maybe two QBs to go into a game & fill in for Schaub. Hopefully it will only be for a Qtr, maybe a game at most. But If I'm Kubiak, I'm thinking I will need my back up QB this year. Tj gets the nod, because of his "extensive" experience playing in real games, including play-offs, & he's already got experience leading the offense, from a leadership pov.
Nothing against Case, but he's going to have to wait behind Tj, just like Romo had to wait behind Testeverde. Just like Kaepernick had to sit behind Smith & wait for an opportunity.
Matt's the starter, he's not going to lose his job unless someone comes in & outperforms him on game day. Yates is the back up, he's not going to lose his job this year, unless someone outperforms him on game day.
Now, if Keenum puts on a good show through camp & the team gets comfortable with him, there's a good chance we'll let Tj go at the end of the year, give Keenum another year to get an opportunity, & bring in another prospect.
It's just highly unlikely that an undrafted QB is going to unseat Yates.
Or traded to the Saints.
CT, I read it as the Saints worked out a deal with Chase Daniel before he actually cleared waiver.
It is quite possible that his agent already informed other team that he preferred the Saints, so they didn't bother to create an unwanted situation.
As I understand it, the Redskins also wanted to resign him to the PS.
But after Daniel chose to go with the Saints, he basically severed the tie to them.
This is a risk that a team takes.
For example, the Texans cut KW.
He went on to sign with another team for the vet minimum.
What I'm saying is that there is a risk, no matter how slight it is, when you cut a guy.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
And all I said was he cleared waivers and signed on the Saints PS. Both those things are true, so I'm not sure what you're challenging about that.
Yeah, of course there's a risk, but managing that risk is what it's all about. If the Texans decide they want to go the PS route with Case again this year, it's up to them to judge whether he'll make it through waivers, and if they decide he likely will, it's up to them to decide if there's a realistic risk of Case choosing another team's PS. It's also up to them to determine the likelihood they're wrong, and if they're willing to live with that level of risk.
The same argument was on these boards last off-season (In May no less), with several folks (I honestly don't know if you were one of them) swearing that Case would never clear waivers if the Texans attempted to put him on the PS. And others (me very definitely included) saying it was ridiculous to think that another NFL team was going to use a 53 man roster spot on a player under the circumstances that would be present. Now we don't know what the Texans are going to do with Case this season, but what happened with him last season is a matter of record.