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Blake Bortles

infantrycak said:
Yeah, facts don't support you. Late round guys are the ones who don't get rushed out on to field and get the opportunity to learn the system, being a pro, etc. And they still don'the make it to starter quality. You know, guys like TJ Yates, Case Keenum.



No it's like someone else had a much better resume so they got hired as store manager and you got hired as fry guy.
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you saying facts don't support me means nothing in the face of the failure rate of guys who are selected in the 1st - 3rd round, the majority of which we know get every opportunity to start....& still fail at an astounding clip. Unless you can come with data that can show that 4th-6th round guys fail at a much worse clip when given the exact same level of opportunity & leash, then the facts don't really support you either. For every TJ Yates and Case Keenum you name who has gotten a half-assed opportunity, i can name a Mark Sanchez & Jason Campbell who flamed out after multiple opportunities and/or years to get it done.

The 1st rounders get rushed out there b/c of their draft position & at least 95% of them aren't even ready to become the guy...which further bolsters my main point about the impatience of fans & teams in general in letting a guy develop.
 
dream_team said:
I, personally, would have been ok with taking any of those guys. But BOB has gone on record and said there's not much difference between those guys & Savage to justify taking them early. Also, I remember a lot of people were projecting Savage as a 2nd-3rd round pick. So why does he not count?
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The "well, BOB said this about that QB and that about this other QB" doesn't work for me anymore. He also said we should be proud of Hoyer and Mallett. And then he preceded to make a mess of the position to the point he had to apologize to the team.

Savage's meteoric rise in the draft baffled me. He was one of the rawest QB's in the draft and there were people who followed him at Pitt who were as confused by the attention he gained the few months leading up to the 2014 draft as anyone. On a team where your options are Fitzpatrick, Yates and Keenum and you have the first pick in every round and you draft the prototypical developmental QB, that's not good enough.

I'll give O'Brien credit, he's gotten the best out of what he's had but he could have had better than what he has.
 
Mollywhopper said:
What are you basing this off of?
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Take guys like Jamarcus Russell or even David Carr. They were given multiple years as the starter to prove themselves. If you invest a high pick on a QB, it's understood.

On the flip side, guys like Yates or Mettenberger are only given a few games as the starter to prove themselves (and that's due to injury). If they suck in those few games, they most likely won't see an opportunity again.

The theory is if the Yates' & Mettenberger's of the world also got the multi-year starter chance, we'd see a higher success rate of late-round QBs.

Makes sense to me.
 
Pointing out that the draft is imperfect is not to point out that there are so many more gems laying in wait though.

You give the later round guys more opportunity and you're just as likely to have that many more failures and wasted time as you are odd successes.
 
dream_team said:
So why aren't the Ravens winning this season?
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Because they are 3-7 in one possession games. Sometimes you just have a tough year. It's not like they are a terrible team that keeps getting blown out. They just haven't been able to consistently finish in close games this year.
 
WolverineFan said:
Because they are 3-7 in one possession games. Sometimes you just have a tough year. It's not like they are a terrible team that keeps getting blown out. They just haven't been able to consistently finish in close games this year.
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Their offense fell off the map with Ray Rice and Flacco both having crud years in 2013 25th/29th rankings pts/yds. Kubiak came in, they went to 8th/12th and Flacco had his best year. This year Kubiak is gone, Flacco has been much less efficient and they have had some key injuries.
 
infantrycak said:
Their offense fell off the map with Ray Rice and Flacco both having crud years in 2013 25th/29th rankings pts/yds. Kubiak came in, they went to 8th/12th and Flacco had his best year. This year Kubiak is gone, Flacco has been much less efficient and they have had some key injuries.
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Kubiak's offense looked to be a perfect fit for Flacco. They could have made some sweet sweet music together.
 
dream_team said:
I, personally, would have been ok with taking any of those guys. But BOB has gone on record and said there's not much difference between those guys & Savage to justify taking them early. Also, I remember a lot of people were projecting Savage as a 2nd-3rd round pick. So why does he not count?
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I was thinking the same... then OB stuck him on the practice squad for a second year. Then he put him on IR, where he can't practice with the team at all. I don't think OB sees Savage as "starter" material.
 
thunderkyss said:
I was thinking the same... then OB stuck him on the practice squad for a second year. Then he put him on IR, where he can't practice with the team at all. I don't think OB sees Savage as "starter" material.
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Savage was never on PS. And I can understand putting him on IR. He's still a bit raw. And as a 3rd stringer, you never intend on actually giving him any live game reps. We had a lot of guys injured at the start of the season (Foster, X, Clowney), so those roster spots were quite valuable.
 
dream_team said:
Savage was never on PS. And I can understand putting him on IR. He's still a bit raw. And as a 3rd stringer, you never intend on actually giving him any live game reps. We had a lot of guys injured at the start of the season (Foster, X, Clowney), so those roster spots were quite valuable.
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Right, I meant scout team. He was never learning "our system" at most he was correcting poor mechanics. But one year of that should have been enough. If OB thought of him on par with what is generally believed about Carr or Bridgewater, he wouldn't have put him on IR. Griffen would have been on IR & our QB of the future would have been given the designation to return.
 
thunderkyss said:
Right, I meant scout team. He was never learning "our system" at most he was correcting poor mechanics. But one year of that should have been enough. If OB thought of him on par with what is generally believed about Carr or Bridgewater, he wouldn't have put him on IR. Griffen would have been on IR & our QB of the future would have been given the designation to return.
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Bringing in Hoyer and bringing back Mallett interupted the development time for Savage. It was an unintended consequence which limited the number of snaps available for him. He appeared to have shown significant improvement before he went down and on IR. But we really don't know whether that was real or pre-season optimism.
 
Marshall said:
Bringing in Hoyer and bringing back Mallett interupted the development time for Savage. It was an unintended consequence which limited the number of snaps available for him. He appeared to have shown significant improvement before he went down and on IR. But we really don't know whether that was real or pre-season optimism.
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Looking for progress in 3rd string preseason snaps is fool's gold.

We're talking non-game planned, base level offense snaps among players who are for the most part on couches once the regular season begins.
 
infantrycak said:
Looking for progress in 3rd string preseason snaps is fool's gold.

We're talking non-game planned, base level offense snaps among players who are for the most part on couches once the regular season begins.
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So you're going with pre-season optimism. I'll have to shock you and agree. I hope I'm wrong and there really is something special coming together with Savage.
 
thunderkyss said:
Right, I meant scout team. He was never learning "our system" at most he was correcting poor mechanics. But one year of that should have been enough. If OB thought of him on par with what is generally believed about Carr or Bridgewater, he wouldn't have put him on IR. Griffen would have been on IR & our QB of the future would have been given the designation to return.
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I don't read it that way at all.

Not that I'm saying that we're counting on Savage coming in and being a savior next year, but I don't think we should rule him out, yet.
 
Marshall said:
So you're going with pre-season optimism. I'll have to shock you and agree. I hope I'm wrong and there really is something special coming together with Savage.
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Everyone HOPES he'll be the next Tom Brady, or even good Schaub at this point, it's just that the odds are stacked against him. He didn't play college ball for 2 years and now he's missing this season. Since mid-November 2010, Savage has played in 23 football games, and 8 of those are pre-season games with the Texans, 3 of which he played a quarter or less. He already had tremendous odds to overcome. Much harder to do so if you're not even practicing, never mind playing.
 
Speedy said:
Everyone HOPES he'll be the next Tom Brady, or even good Schaub at this point, it's just that the odds are stacked against him. He didn't play college ball for 2 years and now he's missing this season. Since mid-November 2010, Savage has played in 23 football games, and 8 of those are pre-season games with the Texans, 3 of which he played a quarter or less. He already had tremendous odds to overcome. Much harder to do so if you're not even practicing, never mind playing.
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Agreed. This is why I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if we didn't have an opportunity to select another QB near value in the draft. Get him the reps and find out without another battle between other QBs. Of course, the down side exists, but there is an upside since he has less wear and tear at the same age as other prospects.
 
On Savage.

Marshall said:
Agreed. This is why I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if we didn't have an opportunity to select another QB near value in the draft.
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I think folks are really not understanding the difference between betting odds and NFL players odds.

Long odds pay more in Vegas. They don't pay more in the NFL. It's not 'well they took a 1 in 3 in the 1st and they took a 1 in a million in the 5th, if both hit the 5th pays out more.'

Farting around for years in the NFL playing long odds at QB ain't smart.
 
infantrycak said:
On Savage.



I think folks are really not understanding the difference between betting odds and NFL players odds.

Long odds pay more in Vegas. They don't pay more in the NFL. It's not 'well they took a 1 in 3 in the 1st and they took a 1 in a million in the 5th, if both hit the 5th pays out more.'

Farting around for years in the NFL playing long odds at QB ain't smart.
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Agreed, but neither is constantly doubling down with better odds until you lose.
 
infantrycak said:
You're not a blackjack player.
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Nope. I always quit before I lost all my winnings unlike the typical better. If you play long enough, you'll eventually lose. Particularly if you don't remove some of your winnings before the next hand.

But you're right. I'm a blackjack quitter.
 
savage was at no point considered to be in the qb competition this year...and I think that's the way OB wanted it..Savage's time will be next year. He'll be seriously considered along with Hoyer and whatever early guy we take next year.
 
Mr teX said:
savage was at no point considered to be in the qb competition this year...and I think that's the way OB wanted it..Savage's time will be next year. He'll be seriously considered along with Hoyer and whatever early guy we take next year.
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I'm just hoping there's a guy we like early.
 
Mr teX said:
savage was at no point considered to be in the qb competition this year...and I think that's the way OB wanted it..Savage's time will be next year. He'll be seriously considered along with Hoyer and whatever early guy we take next year.
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And that should tell you something about Savage...not even in competition with Hoyer and Mallett.

Or about OB in contrast to Carroll who drafted a guy as a backup and in open practices decided he should start as a rookie.

Pick your poison on who it reflects on
 
Bucky Brooks Verified account ‏@BuckyBrooks
Which QB leads the @NFL in game-winning drives this season? Bet you never would've guessed @Jaguars Bortles (4)

CU-1yPdU4AAKB5r.jpg
 
infantrycak said:
And that should tell you something about Savage...not even in competition with Hoyer and Mallett.

Or about OB in contrast to Carroll who drafted a guy as a backup and in open practices decided he should start as a rookie.

Pick your poison on who it reflects on
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I don't think it necessarily reflects on Savage..as I said, OB may not have had any intentions of starting Savage before at least 2 years in his system. Maybe OB is old school in that he believes qb's should sit for a year or 2....I think the the fact that Savage has never been on the practice squad where some team could snatch him up says more about what OB thinks about him than him not seriously being in the qb comp this year.
 
infantrycak said:
And that should tell you something about Savage...not even in competition with Hoyer and Mallett.

Or about OB in contrast to Carroll who drafted a guy as a backup and in open practices decided he should start as a rookie.

Pick your poison on who it reflects on
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(This is what I'm telling myself)

Savage didn't play a lot in college. He was drafted as a project with a lot of upside, but needs time to develop. We have a team capable of winning and making playoffs (despite no real QB). So I think it would have been unfair to throw Savage out there too early. Texans should be capable of winning games with a game manager like Hoyer or Fitz.

Now what I'm hoping is Savage makes great strides this offseason and is in a real QB competition with Hoyer next season. (Along with drafting a QB)
 
That's great. Wish we could win games by being facemasked, false starting, and kicking long FGs. Oh and ST returning the ball to the 5 yard line. 2 great game winning drives there. Exudes leadership.
 
PapaL said:
That's great. Wish we could win games by being facemasked, false starting, and kicking long FGs. Oh and ST returning the ball to the 5 yard line. 2 great game winning drives there. Exudes leadership.
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That's mental toughness.
 
& yet another TO at the worst possible time that puts his defense on a short field and kills any momentum...
 
Blake Bortles is playing well (obviously) and in addition the Jaguars seem to have two really good WRs in Allen Robinson and Allen Hurns (FA Pickup). If this wasn't bad enough look at the Raiders with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr.

If the Texans wanted to go the Defensive and QB route what the Raiders did makes a whole lotta sense.

Another example of why Rick Smith fails as a GM?
 
Texian said:
Bortles last two games 8 Passing TDs 1 Rush TD 0 INT
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Yep, just another day where the Bortles bashers look like complete fools.

Especially the ones that bought into the hype of that garbage Dlineman we got instead, and have tried to make horrendous arguments for him going on almost two years now.

The Texans are jokes. Passing on Bortles will haunt them for a long time.
 
Texecutioner said:
Yep, just another day where the Bortles bashers look like complete fools.

Especially the ones that bought into the hype of that garbage Dlineman we got instead, and have tried to make horrendous arguments for him going on almost two years now.

The Texans are jokes. Passing on Bortles will haunt them for a long time.
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The Bortles Bashers;
 
Texan4Ever said:
Blake Bortles is playing well (obviously) and in addition the Jaguars seem to have two really good WRs in Allen Robinson and Allen Hurns (FA Pickup). If this wasn't bad enough look at the Raiders with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr.

If the Texans wanted to go the Defensive and QB route what the Raiders did makes a whole lotta sense.

Another example of why Rick Smith fails as a GM?
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Bortles is playing well at times like the 2nd half of games . The Texans have waited and allowed the Jags to build a good skills group .
 
Anyone but clowney. I was a tb guy, but I was cool with Bortles. The only way you ever become consistent is with a qb. He doesnt have to be hof, but it made 0 sense to not draft a qb in 1st 2 rds. There were alot of guys wanting to build a monster defense and have a manager at qb. Well look now and show me a monster defense without a qb.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Bortles is playing well at times like the 2nd half of games . The Texans have waited and allowed the Jags to build a good skills group .
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leebigeztx said:
Anyone but clowney. I was a tb guy, but I was cool with Bortles. The only way you ever become consistent is with a qb. He doesnt have to be hof, but it made 0 sense to not draft a qb in 1st 2 rds. There were alot of guys wanting to build a monster defense and have a manager at qb. Well look now and show me a monster defense without a qb.
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Imagine Bortles behind our offensive line (better than the Jags IMO) with D-Hop and Nate Washington and imagine if we had a healthy Arian Foster...our record would put us in line for the playoffs.

Even if we had gone with Derek Carr I would've been ok and it was silly to pass on him because of the Carr name (I suspect this was probably the case among other reasons).
 
Saying Hoyer has high upside to Bortles med? Yeah I won't pay any attention to that site
 
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