Any of you think Pitts has a chance at reclaiming LT?

[phan1]

Cause right now, I'm hard pressed to believe that he couldn't beat out Wand or Spencer at that position. And the last time I checked, LT is a more important position. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he been the best LT that we have had throughout our short history? I mean C'mon! I don't see why he keeps getting pushed down to guard. If Spencer and Wand keep getting demolished, shouldn't we start considering Pitts at LT? I think Spencer would be a good LG as people have been saying he's a huge mauler. He was projected as a guard coming into the draft anyway right? It never looked like he was primarily a pass-blocker to begin with.

I know it's too early to hit the panic button, but I think this should be a serious consideration as training camp goes on.

 

[TexanSam]

I remember hearing a radio interview a few months back and he was disappointed to be going back to guard. Yeah, that's what he played out of college, but after 4 years of left tackle in the NFL, there's still going to be an adjustment. To answer your question, I think he can go back to LT but I'm hoping he doesn't. If he does, that means that Wand and Spencer both failed to get the job done and we have shuffle the O-line some more.

 

[texan279]

IMO right now I would not be surprised at anyone losing a starting job except Davis, Mario, Carr, and AJ.

 

[BigDTexansFan]

I got to agree about Pitts going back to LT might be a bad sign, BUT I still think had we left him there all 4 years instead of playing musical tackles. He might be just the man for job had Capers & co left him alone.

 

[AFD1717]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he been the best LT that we have had throughout our short history?

This doesn't say a whole lot.

Is Pitts the best LT in camp TODAY? Maybe. The problem is that he is our best LG, too. The coaches who have been evaluating Spencer (and Winston) since before the draft feel that his athletic ability, which is excellent for a man his size, makes him a great fit at tackle in this system. Moving him to guard is a possibility if that doesn't prove to be true but I don't see that happening. We have to put our best combination of linemen on the field and the fact is we have more potential at tackle with Wand and Spencer battling for time than we do at LG. Pitts is a nice option to have if Wand, Spencer, and maybe Winston all get a shot at LT and fail, but I think somebody develops and pairs with Pitts to give us a dominant left side.

 

[thegr8fan]

I mean C'mon! I don't see why he keeps getting pushed down to guard.

according to seth Payne he is the perfect size/ speed/ player for a LG. that is why.

is he the best LT to date, yep. But if the current regime thinks that Wand can get the job done, and we have faith in their analysis on other positions, then I can't wait for our left side to be a dominant force with Pitts and Wand/Spencer playing.

 

[nunusguy]

You know who suffers the most with these experiments at LT ? He is not an
OL and his initials are DC. The thing is we are getting, on balance, more negative reports than the positve type about the current first team guy, Seth Wand. And Spencer may have tremendous upside, but as a rookie its gonna take some time for that to translate to performance on the field, especially in the NFL. Afterall, he's only played 2 years in college as an OL after moving over from the DL.
The OL didn't start to look like anything that performed in semi-competant fashion until Chester was moved to LT, which was something like the 5th
game of the year ? Maybe for the sake of Carr's physical well being and hope of him having a successful season this year, they better get Chester over to the LT spot by the time we play the Eagles if Wand continues to disappoint ?

 

[gwallaia]

Wherever Pitts lines up on the line, he better stop jumping offsides.

 

[infantrycak]

I remember hearing a radio interview a few months back and he was disappointed to be going back to guard. Yeah, that's what he played out of college,

Pitts played LT in college as well. The closest he got to guard in college was being projected as one in the NFL.

 

[Coach C.]

Pitts is seen more as a natural G. I think if he could play LT without interruption and be trained only at that position he could be a middle of the road pro that could start on a good many teams. Now as far as Pitts taking back the LT position not unless we are having a serious problem. Right now it is Wand and Spencer and if need be Winston. Wand is being pulled for mistakes forcing him to correct them or at least take his head out of his posterior. Spencer is a rookie and just has not got it quite yet, but by mid-season if not earlier he could take over the full time spot.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Pitts is seen more as a natural G. I think if he could play LT without interruption and be trained only at that position he could be a middle of the road pro that could start on a good many teams. Now as far as Pitts taking back the LT position not unless we are having a serious problem. Right now it is Wand and Spencer and if need be Winston. Wand is being pulled for mistakes forcing him to correct them or at least take his head out of his posterior. Spencer is a rookie and just has not got it quite yet, but by mid-season if not earlier he could take over the full time spot.

Everyone, including several NFL coaches, have continued to say this, but by the play on the field and his on words his best position has been LT. If he were and inch and half taller would he be a "natural guard." I think this a measurable and looking at the body type thing versus watching the skills and production he displays.

Pitts seems to at natural LT stuck in a body associated with a guard.

 

[nunusguy]

Pitts seems to at natural LT stuck in a body associated with a guard.

How about this analogy, if a DB is a "natural safety" but with the speed
to play corner, where does he play ? At CB of course, because that position
is more important than safety.
It seems like it should be the same for guards and tackles. Maybe a player is
lacking certain ideal physical measurements for a classic NFL LT, but if he has
the basic athleticism to play the position, well then he should play that position simply because tackles (especailly LTs), are more important than guards. Especailly with a team like the Texans that desperately needs just competance, not brilliance, but competance and consistency at that most important of all OL positons.

 

[infantrycak]

Everyone, including several NFL coaches, have continued to say this, but by the play on the field and his on words his best position has been LT. If he were and inch and half taller would he be a "natural guard." I think this a measurable and looking at the body type thing versus watching the skills and production he displays.

Pitts seems to at natural LT stuck in a body associated with a guard.

I keep wanting someone to legitimately beat Pitts out at LT and then have him move to RT but that has never seemed to be even a consideration in the cards--always with the let's get him to G talk.

 

[SESupergenius]

Such a refreshing feeling that we have solved our LT problem.....after 5 years.

 

[nunusguy]

I keep wanting someone to legitimately beat Pitts out at LT and then have him move to RT but that has never seemed to be even a consideration in the cards--always with the let's get him to G talk.

Or there's that scenario. Exactly !
Play Chester at LT until Spencer is ready for that positoin (maybe not until the 2007 season), then move Chester to RT.
I don't have a problem with Spencer & Chester at the tackles and Winston as a guard instead of the rookes being the tackles over the long-term.

 

[Marcus]

Do I take it from the premise of this thread that Seth Wand is not holding up his end in TC?

And if that's the case, doesn't that validate what last year's coaching staff did in demoting him?

To you TC observers, what exactly is Wand's problem? Is he just getting overmatched physically? . . . Is he just too slow laterally . . . or is he not just mentally cut out for it?

 

[jerek]

I've been pushing for Pitts at LT for months. I do not mind Sherman giving these other guys the look but IMO Pitts has been a solid LT and the spot should be his until someone earns it from him. Wand is awful right now and I can only hope that Spencer will exhibit a faster learning curve than is typically allowed most rookies.

As stated in the camp threads, Wand just looks like he's not mentally with it. Physically I'm not sure he is strong enough and he is tall which means he has a higher center of gravity he needs to be compensating for, but far worse is that mentally he looks like he doesn't even want to be there. Body language just says it all; head down, no visible fire, getting frustrated instead of pissed when he gets smoked by Babin of all people, who is improved but still IMO hardly an upper echelon DE. He just isn't exhibiting any pride, fight, or fire. Right now Wand looks like he either doesn't care or doesn't believe in himself; not sure what if anything might be going on either onfield or off of it to contribute to his apparent distraction, but right now he is headed out of the starting lineup.

 

[threetoedpete]

This doesn't say a whole lot.

Is Pitts the best LT in camp TODAY? Maybe. The problem is that he is our best LG, too. The coaches who have been evaluating Spencer (and Winston) since before the draft feel that his athletic ability, which is excellent for a man his size, makes him a great fit at tackle in this system. Moving him to guard is a possibility if that doesn't prove to be true but I don't see that happening. We have to put our best combination of linemen on the field and the fact is we have more potential at tackle with Wand and Spencer battling for time than we do at LG. Pitts is a nice option to have if Wand, Spencer, and maybe Winston all get a shot at LT and fail, but I think somebody develops and pairs with Pitts to give us a dominant left side.

Agreed:
If this is the case and Pitts IS our best option at LT this year...you can pretty much push OLT on top of the '07 draft wish list. As dinged as we are at CB right now, no one wants to go through another '05 again.

And to reBuff an earlier point...How do you know that if Pitts wasn't bounced around he wouldn't be an All pro canidate at Left Gaurd ? Coach has already said he ain't moving again. If he dose, we're in serious trouble.

 

[threetoedpete]

Do I take it from the premise of this thread that Seth Wand is not holding up his end in TC?

And if that's the case, doesn't that validate what last year's coaching staff did in demoting him?

To you TC observers, what exactly is Wand's problem? Is he just getting overmatched physically? . . . Is he just too slow laterally . . . or is he not just mentally cut out for it?

Personally, I think this is a knee jerk reaction to casual fans seeing camp and seeing the D-line brutalize the o-line. Happens every summer, at every level,on every team. D-line is always ahead of the O-line....early. Big difference in one guy reading his responsiblities and going for broke. And five guys trin' to move in concert with one another. Don't push the panic button. Give it time. Still early.It will come. I've been watchin' o-lines for a very long time. This group looks good. Quick feet, powerful. They're just not...graceful yet. It WILL come.
The best we've ever had. Gonna take some time is all.

 

[Texans_Chick]

As stated in the camp threads, Wand just looks like he's not mentally with it. Physically I'm not sure he is strong enough and he is tall which means he has a higher center of gravity he needs to be compensating for, but far worse is that mentally he looks like he doesn't even want to be there. Body language just says it all; head down, no visible fire, getting frustrated instead of pissed when he gets smoked by Babin of all people, who is improved but still IMO hardly an upper echelon DE. He just isn't exhibiting any pride, fight, or fire. Right now Wand looks like he either doesn't care or doesn't believe in himself; not sure what if anything might be going on either onfield or off of it to contribute to his apparent distraction, but right now he is headed out of the starting lineup.

At the end of the day, he might end up out of the starting lineup for various reasons, but what does the Ouija board and tea leaves say about his state of mind? Maybe we should do a tarot reading too.

I really really appreciate the training camp observations that people make but I have to say it kills me to read stuff that makes such large extrapolations based on little information. He's not yelling, losing his temper or getting in fights ergo he doesn't care, is distracted or doesn't believe in himself???? What do you expect him to do?

I give up.

 

[Bullfan]

Sounds like some of you are "seeing what you want to see", which is for Wand to fail. We are 3 days into training camp, new coaches, new play schemes and Wand finally has coaches who want to teach him and work with him. Give him a chance -- he will surprise you. There is no way he does not want to be a good left tackle, he just hasn't been given the training that Chester has. It was reported that Chester has spent some time on the bench too from making mistakes, give this line of men a chance.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Personally, I think this is a knee jerk reaction to casual fans seeing camp and seeing the D-line brutalize the o-line. Happens every summer, at every level,on every team. D-line is always ahead of the O-line....early. Big difference in one guy reading his responsiblities and going for broke. And five guys trin' to move in concert with one another. Don't push the panic button. Give it time. Still early.It will come. I've been watchin' o-lines for a very long time. This group looks good. Quick feet, powerful. They're just not...graceful yet. It WILL come.
The best we've ever had. Gonna take some time is all.

"Best we've ever had" is damning with faint praise but I'm seeing where you are going.

You are right-this is typical. Prolly more so with an all new lineup We have to wait some to see what we got. But we don't want to wait.

 

[real]

At the end of the day, he might end up out of the starting lineup for various reasons, but what does the Ouija board and tea leaves say about his state of mind? Maybe we should do a tarot reading too.

I really really appreciate the training camp observations that people make but I have to say it kills me to read stuff that makes such large extrapolations based on little information. He's not yelling, losing his temper or getting in fights ergo he doesn't care, is distracted or doesn't believe in himself???? What do you expect him to do?

I give up.

TC you are right, in that you can't neccessarily judge a player by the emotions they show on the practice field...But at the same time you can read players by there demeanor...if he has lost confidence, it will show...if he is getting physically dominated ...it will definitely show...No emotions don't neccessarily correlate to a players ability, but from personal experience, if you are dominating the opposition on a regular basis, when you do make a mistake....your reaction tends to be anger....and I find that when playing football it helps to wear your emotions on your sleeve...it just makes you more aggressive and IMO, aggressiveness is always good when playing football...

 

[Hervoyel]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Texans_Chick again."

Wand will be fine. Camp is what? Three days old? Pitts is always brought out as our best LT but nobody, and let me stress that in bold nobody, has been given as much time as Pitts at the position. Pitts started as a rookie and played like a rookie LT. Pitts started again in 2003 and played much better. Then Wand played the position in 2004 and didn't look that much different from Pitts in his first season. Lots of mistakes and nothing to get excited about. Did Wand get a chance to come back and show improvement in year two like Pitts did? No he didn't. Joe Pendry decided to screw around and make changes to the line that we played while winning 7 games and moved a bunch of pieces around. He brought in Victor "Where's the Gravy" Riley and handed him the LT spot.

Seth Wand was treated badly by the previous coaching staff. If the current one didn't think there was a good reason for him to be working with the first string then I wouldn't be working with the first string. The moment someone else does it better then Wand will move to the second string. Pitts is however a guard. He's going to be a great one if they'll just leave him there.

 

[jerek]

At the end of the day, he might end up out of the starting lineup for various reasons, but what does the Ouija board and tea leaves say about his state of mind? Maybe we should do a tarot reading too.

I really really appreciate the training camp observations that people make but I have to say it kills me to read stuff that makes such large extrapolations based on little information. He's not yelling, losing his temper or getting in fights ergo he doesn't care, is distracted or doesn't believe in himself???? What do you expect him to do?

I give up.

I guess you should ask yourself if jerek -- whatever you know about him -- is likely to be right when he makes an observation like this, or not? Or I suppose you should ask yourself if you believe him when he reports that he was getting repeatedly bent over by Jason Babin of all people in 1-on-1 drills -- let alone what Mario was doing to him -- and frequently subbed out of the first team 9-on-9s and 11-on-11s by Sherman. I could provide a ton of quotes from coaching staff and player ops personnel, but given their lack of context and probability in being misinterpreted or blown out of proportion here, I have refrained from offering them.

I can look into a person's eyes (and I was about ten feet away) and pretty accurately gauge their feelings, and through close observation of their neurolinguistics (a process you are grossly oversimplifying). It's a skill I've very deliberately built and sharpened through my comparatively few years, and forgive me if I say I'm pretty good at it. I can be wrong in forming those impressions, but when his play goes on to more or less confirm that initial feeling, then I will feel pretty confident in reporting on what I see.

If you disagree, then by all means, it's your right to do so, but given that it's my understanding you weren't even there -- let alone a debate on why your football or people-reading credentials are superior to mine -- then I'm not sure why you'd get upset with me for calling it like I see it. I played sports through the college level and I've followed them closely since. I don't possess infantrycak's capacity for stats and I may not even possess your skill for writing, but I am pretty confident in my ability to gauge people, and since Wand's demonstrable play certainly isn't refuting my claims, I'd appreciate you at least being open to the possibility that I am right here.

I will say here as I have said elsewhere; we are early into camp and it is way too early to write off most any player. Seth Wand wears a Texans uniform and accordingly I sincerely hope he succeeds. Coach C is better able to analyze the specifics of his technique, but I can merely report on what I am able to discern. I hope that Kubiak and Sherman succeed in bringing Seth Wand along; it's just my opinion that right now, he's not where he needs to be. Time will tell if this is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[bdiddy]

I agree with much that has been said throughout this thread. However, when looking as to why Pitts is playing guard rather than tackles it is because he has a better initial burst with his hand punch and plays better in limited spaces. I think Chester could be an average tackle. But, I think he has the potential to be a dominant guard.

Kubiak and team are doing their best to put a the best lineup on the field. Pitts at guard will greatly strengthen the running game. Wand's weakness at left tackle will be greatly neutralized by a solid running/play action game and increased roll-outs to get Carr out of the pocket. You cannot consider this in a vaccum but must consider why the coaching staff is doing this. Trust me if they did not think he was capable of being a really good guard they never would have moved McKinney to RIGHT guard, a position he has never played. Lets have a little faith and let the battle rage throughout camp.

 

[Texans Horror]

How fired up is the rest of the line? I'm not trying to denounce a post. I'm just curious because I haven't been able to go to the camps. Are they pumped up? Are they jumping up and down after every play? From what I have seen in the pics and what I have heard on the boards (which is all I have to go on), I can't make a decision as to the player's emotional state.

So I'm going to wait for the coaches to do their job. As I've said before, Mario, Demeco, Moulds, and Flanagan are nothing compared to the changes in the front three - Kubiak, Sherman, and Smith. This will be the big change this year, whoever is running the ball.

Along these lines, how is the offensive coaching staff looking? I have heard little of Benton (O-line coach) and Calhoun (OC). Is Sherman working with the line, or has it been relegated to Benton? Would either give the line the Pendry stamp of approval (berating, yelling, etc.). Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Runner]

I really tried to stay out of this thread, but here is my $0.02.

Most of the very negative Wand reports are coming from the same posters who over time said:

a) he'll be cut before OTAs
b) they are just experimenting with him at LT, he won't be first string when OTAs start
c) he'll never make it through OTAs at first string
d) he won't be first string when training camp starts because he got owned at OTAs

While I find these posters may have some good insights in other areas, they aren't very credible to me when it comes to Wand. I'll wait for the coaches to make their decision.

Nothing personal guys - just calling it as I see it. I hope we can still work and play well together.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I do not like the fact that people are having a consistent take on what they are seeing from Wand. And I am alarmed. However, as some are implying here how do Kubiak/Sherman measure Wand? And is he below or above the expectation by Day 4 of training camp? That is what really counts here.

We have spoken about certain players having a year or a half season to show results. I would say that Wand most likely has to the end of training camp. I hope the staff knows what makes this guy tick by now.

How is Hodgdon looking?

 

[jerek]

At the end of the day, he might end up out of the starting lineup for various reasons, but what does the Ouija board and tea leaves say about his state of mind? Maybe we should do a tarot reading too.

I really really appreciate the training camp observations that people make but I have to say it kills me to read stuff that makes such large extrapolations based on little information. He's not yelling, losing his temper or getting in fights ergo he doesn't care, is distracted or doesn't believe in himself???? What do you expect him to do?

I give up.

On a general basis, I understand your frustration with comments regarding a player's observed disposition. I remember reading a truckload of anti-Carr statements that were based on a similar (however IMO grossly inaccurate) kind of thing: the whole, Carr doesn't curse a blue streak and doesn't jump up and down on the field when someone drops a pass and doesn't kick puppies and goes to church, etc. and therefore is a crappy football player. So I understand that you want something of substance and want to avoid the speculation that arises out of aspects such as posture.

Trouble is, I can observe things like that (and not just in one moment; throughout a series of practices) and predict with substantial accuracy how that is, does, and will affect his play. Bottom line, TC, I just tell you (and everyone else) what I see. Allow my post history to speak for itself, and feel free to exercise that ignore key if you want to. If you think I'm full of crap or not likely to be accurate, then I guess I would just ask you to take it FWIW. Just expect me to respond if you want to question my credibility, and if my response still isn't adequate for you or anyone else, so be it, fine with me.

 

[Texans_Chick]

I guess you should ask yourself if jerek -- whatever you know about him -- is likely to be right when he makes an observation like this, or not? Or I suppose you should ask yourself if you believe him when he reports that he was getting repeatedly bent over by Jason Babin of all people in 1-on-1 drills -- let alone what Mario was doing to him -- and frequently subbed out of the first team 9-on-9s and 11-on-11s by Sherman. I could provide a ton of quotes from coaching staff and player ops personnel, but given their lack of context and probability in being misinterpreted or blown out of proportion here, I have refrained from offering them.

I can look into a person's eyes (and I was about ten feet away) and pretty accurately gauge their feelings, and through close observation of their neurolinguistics. It's a skill I've very deliberately built and sharpened through my comparatively few years, and forgive me if I say I'm pretty good at it. I can be wrong in forming those impressions, but when his play goes on to more or less confirm that initial feeling, then I will feel pretty confident in reporting on what I see.

I was not intending to impugn your credibility. You are like any number of us, MB posters who used to play sports or still play sports and live vicariously through professionals playing same.

I certainly didn't realize that you pride yourself on an elevated level of neurolinguistic observation.

Me personally, I am not so much of a touchy feely sort--I'm a Just The Facts Ma'am. I love when people make observations of what they have been seeing--who is getting first team reps. Who is looking good in the reps. Who is not looking good.

But it is like what someone said earlier in the thread--it is hard not to take observations of body language and not see what you want to see from them. Not because you are not credible, but because you are human, and as you said, could be wrong about what you are observing.

I was not at this particular training camp session, but I've seen practices up close before, and it just seems like it would be difficult to accurately assess player's mental states from doing drills.

I'm am not dogging you in particular for this, it is an observation I've made in the past about reporters too. Inferring things that do not necessarily have one explanation. The entire first part of the ESPN cover article on Mario Williams is that way.

 

[jerek]

I really tried to stay out of this thread, but here is my $0.02.

Most of the very negative Wand reports are coming from the same posters who over time said:

a) he'll be cut before OTAs
b) they are just experimenting with him at LT, he won't be first string when OTAs start
c) he'll never make it through OTAs at first string
d) he won't be first string when training camp starts because he got owned at OTAs

While I find these posters may have some good insights in other areas, they aren't very credible to me when it comes to Wand. I'll wait for the coaches to make their decision.

Nothing personal guys - just calling it as I see it. I hope we can still work and play well together.

The question burning on my mind is, what in this wide world indicates to the Wand-or-bust crowd that he will or should be our LT? IIRC he gave up 12 sacks in 16 games in 2004. I know that all bets are off in regards to gauging a player's ability because Capers' staff did or didn't play them, but why the strong support for Wand playing the position?

I guess I am asking, what particularly do you guys and gals really like about him?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Did you look for or notice Hodgdon?

 

[real]

I guess I am asking, what particularly do you guys and gals really like about him?

I don't think some people have even actually watched him...What average fan actually watches the O-line??? I think it's more along the lines of some supporting Coach Kubiak's judgement and defending his ideas as if they were there own...I agree that Coach K. is IMO, making all the right moves, but he is human...

 

[Texans_Chick]

The question burning on my mind is, what in this wide world indicates to the Wand-or-bust crowd that he will or should be our LT? IIRC he gave up 12 sacks in 16 games in 2004. I know that all bets are off in regards to gauging a player's ability because Capers' staff did or didn't play them, but why the strong support for Wand playing the position?

I guess I am asking, what particularly do you guys and gals really like about him?

I don't really care one way or another--I just want the best guys in the best positions.

As I understand it, the things people like is:

1. He has the measurable mobility to play the position in a zone blocking offense.

2. When he was a rookie, he played pretty well given his overall inexperience.

3. The coaching staff thinks he can play that position. They've looked at tape and have worked with him in person, and given their years of experience working with Olines, that should count for something. It is still early. They might change their mind or might not. One way or another, and nobody wants to hear it, but it does take time for an oline to work together.

4. Pitt could be a GREAT guard but maybe not a great left tackle.

Others could probably answer this better.

 

[jerek]

I was not intending to impugn your credibility. You are like any number of us, MB posters who used to play sports or still play sports and live vicariously through professional playing same.

I certainly didn't realize that you pride yourself on an elevated level of neurolinguistic observation.

Me personally, I am not so much of a touchy feely sort--I'm a Just The Facts Ma'am. I love when people make observations of what they have been seeing--who is getting first team reps. Who is looking good in the reps. Who is not looking good.

But it is like what someone said earlier in the thread--it is hard not to take observations of body language and not see what you want to see from them. Not because you are not credible, but because you are human, and as you said, could be wrong about what you are observing.

I was not at this particular training camp session, but I've seen practices up close before, and it just seems like it would be difficult to accurately assess player's mental states from doing drills.

I'm am not dogging you in particular for this, it is an observation I've made in the past about reporters too. Inferring things that do not necessarily have one explanation. The entire first part of the ESPN cover article on Mario Williams is that way.

I can understand that on a general basis. And I understand that eyewitness reporting on first-team vs. second-team placement and actual plays made or missed does and probably should carry a lot more weight than "I think so and so is going to get booted because he just didn't look like he was with it." And rest assured I'll try to provide that in as much detail and accuracy as I can, when I'm present.

Like I say, I'll just call it like I see it. If you're so inclined, it's up to you to generally observe how often I am right or wrong and to thus judge my words accordingly. Call me out on it, even, if I am wrong; I don't mind the accountability. And I don't mind you or anyone else asking questions or wanting additional detail. Just that, in my opinion -- given his observable work thus far and even admitting that we are early into camp and there is a lot of work yet to be done, combined with the things that contribute to my "gut instinct" -- Wand's starting job is in serious jeopardy, and potentially even his future with the team if he doesn't pick it up. That doesn't mean he will never see the field again; it's just what and where he is now. I clearly stated in my TC threads that we are very early into camp and nothing is set in stone yet.

As far as analyzing the fine points of his technique, there are things I can and did observe, but Coach C is a much better analyst in that regard. I'll try to get him to post more detail on Wand and any of the other OL later today or this week.

 

[jerek]

I don't really care one way or another--I just want the best guys in the best positions.

As I understand it, the things people like is:

1. He has the measurable mobility to play the position in a zone blocking offense.

2. When he was a rookie, he played pretty well given his overall inexperience.

3. The coaching staff thinks he can play that position. They've looked at tape and have worked with him in person, and given their years of experience working with Olines, that should count for something. It is still early. They might change their mind or might not. One way or another, and nobody wants to hear it, but it does take time for an oline to work together.

4. Pitt could be a GREAT guard but maybe not a great left tackle.

Others could probably answer this better.

Like I say, I'll leave the analysis of foot/handwork to Coach C, but IMO he has a knock or two against him. (A) He is tall and not particularly strong/heavy. In watching his drills he had very poor leverage; he was initiating contact at a high center of gravity and not getting low enough to compensate for the defender. He is relatively mobile for a T, but all of that is moot if he is getting bullrushed on every play. (B) I don't know what his weightroom measurables are, but he looked outmatched strengthwise as well. These are obviously correctable with coaching and physical training, to a certain extent, but IMO it is (c) more mental for Wand than anything else, at this point. Again take that FWIW to you.

 

[jerek]

Did you look for or notice Hodgdon?

Negative on both counts. IIRC he was practicing primarily with the second team, and I was watching first team in the drills.

As good as my view was, I would kill to sit in one of the towers and have a birdseye of the whole field. As I was standing on the LOS, players lining up on the opposite side of the field tend to get lost in my field of vision.

 

[thunderkyss]

On a general basis, I understand your frustration with comments regarding a player's observed disposition. I remember reading a truckload of anti-Carr statements that were based on a similar (however IMO grossly inaccurate) kind of thing:

Not to be picky, but is it grossly overstated when you are the one extrapolating emotions, feelings, and inner workings of our players, or is it possible for someone who doesn't share your opinion to be just as accurate as you are??


Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just asking.

Personally, I think it's normal human behavior... we all do it.. and as long as you preface your statement, with IMO, or "From What I saw/see"(which you did) then it should be all fine and dandy......

But I do find it comical how you totally dismiss the inferences drawn by others...

The question burning on my mind is, what in this wide world indicates to the Wand-or-bust crowd that he will or should be our LT? IIRC he gave up 12 sacks in 16 games in 2004. I know that all bets are off in regards to gauging a player's ability because Capers' staff did or didn't play them, but why the strong support for Wand playing the position?

I guess I am asking, what particularly do you guys and gals really like about him?

Personally, I haven't been watching TC....... so I can't say what's going on, or how they look now...... But giving up 12 sacks with Carr in the backfield...... to me isn't a big deal....... like giving up 12 sacks with Drew Bledsoe behind you...... 4 of those may actually be your fault...... who knows.......

But I like the idea of Pitts playing Gaurd..... I too think he can be an avg LT, but a dominant Gaurd...... I don't care to put a rookie at LT...... to me it makes since to start Wand, and give the rookies a good bit of playing time. Wand can earn the spot as we go......... or Spencer can..... whichever.

We should build our line from the inside out.... Pitts & McKinney I think are a strong pair. if Flanagan can hold is own, our run game will really demand some attention....... DE's are going to have to worry about overrunning the play....

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I don't want to slaughter Wand , but how much of a disadvantage does he have coming from a small school . If there is a learning curve should'nt he be much better now than when he was drafted ? Why did he go to such a small school anyway ?

I know a lot of good players come from small schools . I think for lineman going up against big schools who line somebody acrooss from you with NFL aspirations weekend and weekout helps a lot .

 

[jerek]

Not to be picky, but is it grossly overstated when you are the one extrapolating emotions, feelings, and inner workings of our players, or is it possible for someone who doesn't share your opinion to be just as accurate as you are??

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just asking.

Personally, I think it's normal human behavior... we all do it.. and as long as you preface your statement, with IMO, or "From What I saw/see"(which you did) then it should be all fine and dandy......

But I do find it comical how you totally dismiss the inferences drawn by others...

Personally, I haven't been watching TC....... so I can't say what's going on, or how they look now...... But giving up 12 sacks with Carr in the backfield...... to me isn't a big deal....... like giving up 12 sacks with Drew Bledsoe behind you...... 4 of those may actually be your fault...... who knows.......

IIRC, giving up 12 sacks means the 12 sacks attributed to Wand are distinctly Wand's fault. Sacks credited to an OL are sacks in which there was clearly a blown assignment or error on that player's part. Sacks for which the blame isn't clear or might be shared aren't attributed to any particular player. E.g. if David Carr is running around in the backfield for seven seconds and Wand's man eventually beats him, there is no sack credited to Wand.

And I was agreeing that, generally speaking, I can understand a poster's frustration in reading of opinions formed because another poster was inferring things about a player. Obviously yes, we all do it, it's just a question of who's more accurate and who's less accurate. Up to you to decide.

I tend to dismiss inferences drawn by others when they are totally contrary to the inferences I draw myself. This process is made that much easier when the poster in question (a) has a history of supporting Vince Young as the solution to world hunger, (b) can't spell, or (c) explicitly states that because David Carr goes to church, he isn't a good quarterback.

Credibility of all posters naturally falls on a continuum; I'll not force you to read, respect, or agree with anything I post. It's all up to you.

 

[jerek]

I don't want to slaughter Wand , but how much of a disadvantage does he have coming from a small school . If there is a learning curve should'nt he be much better now than when he was drafted ? Why did he go to such a small school anyway ?

I know a lot of good players come from small schools . I think for lineman going up against big schools who line somebody acrooss from you with NFL aspirations weekend and weekout helps a lot .

Totally depends on the individual in question. In general, the better athletes go to the bigger schools and the bigger schools have better coaching, more money devoted to the programs, etc. All of these can and typically do factor in to a player's preparedness, but there are numerous exceptions. IMO, Wand going to a smaller school might only indicate that he will face a larger gap to jump in adjusting to the pro athletes, need a little extra coaching. OTOH it doesn't necessarily make any difference whatsoever.

 

[Bullfan]

No offense, Jerek, but do your personally know Wand? You could have a PHd behind your name, but, unless you have a personel relationship with a person ,you CAN NOT read their face or mannerisms and know what is going on in their head. Even if you iknow them you can't always know what is going on in their head. I've got a gut feeling that anyone who actually knows some of these players personally and read the statements made about them on this board get a good laugh at all of us.

Maybe Wand will get replaced, but, maybe he won't. Let the coaches do their jobs.

 

[real]

B]you CAN NOT read their face or mannerisms and know what is going on in their head.[/B]

Most of communication is non-verbal...however you are correct...You will never "know" what is going on in someone's head, but body language is THE best indicator of what a person is feeling or thinking, sometimes being more accurate than what a person says out of their own mouth...and thats a fact jack...I think instead of jumping down Jereks throat we should thank him for his insight...we recognize that these are HIS observations and how Wands demeanor struck him...

 

[aj.]

Wand and Spencer split time at LT during 11 on 11 this morning. I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before Spencer is our LT. I'm also guessing Pitts stays at G although he could move over one spot left if we get in a pinch...BUT... Salaam is also an experienced T that would probably line up at LT before Pitts. Mango Salsa is Weigert's understudy and will be waiting in the wings. Salaam can play both Tackle positions. Wand isn't having a bang-up camp so far from everything I've seen and heard. Sherman is challenging the heck out of Wand and Spencer, but Spencer has a bit more leeway being the rookie.

 

[thunderkyss]

IIRC, giving up 12 sacks means the 12 sacks attributed to Wand are distinctly Wand's fault. Sacks credited to an OL are sacks in which there was clearly a blown assignment or error on that player's part. Sacks for which the blame isn't clear or might be shared aren't attributed to any particular player. E.g. if David Carr is running around in the backfield for seven seconds and Wand's man eventually beats him, there is no sack credited to Wand.

Yeah........ Okay. you go with that.

I tend to dismiss inferences drawn by others when they are totally contrary to the inferences I draw myself. This process is made that much easier when the poster in question (a) has a history of supporting Vince Young as the solution to world hunger, (b) can't spell, or (c) explicitly states that because David Carr goes to church, he isn't a good quarterback.

Then I guess you can understand people dismissing the opinion of someone who defends Carr with the same types of arguments that the poster in question says is worthless, unless it is he that is making the argument??

Credibility of all posters naturally falls on a continuum; I'll not force you to read, respect, or agree with anything I post. It's all up to you.

OK

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Totally depends on the individual in question. In general, the better athletes go to the bigger schools and the bigger schools have better coaching, more money devoted to the programs, etc. All of these can and typically do factor in to a player's preparedness, but there are numerous exceptions. IMO, Wand going to a smaller school might only indicate that he will face a larger gap to jump in adjusting to the pro athletes, need a little extra coaching. OTOH it doesn't necessarily make any difference whatsoever.

I was leaning in the direction that maybe what you see is what you get . That he has some measurables and plays well in non contact drills .

 

[TransplantTexan1]

Wherever Pitts lines up on the line, he better stop jumping offsides.

Chester seemed to improve upon this quite a bit in 2006, especially over the last eight or nine games. Hope it's a sign of things to come.

 

[jerek]

No offense, Jerek, but do your personally know Wand? You could have a PHd behind your name, but, unless you have a personel relationship with a person ,you CAN NOT read their face or mannerisms and know what is going on in their head. Even if you iknow them you can't always know what is going on in their head. I've got a gut feeling that anyone who actually knows some of these players personally and read the statements made about them on this board get a good laugh at all of us.

Maybe Wand will get replaced, but, maybe he won't. Let the coaches do their jobs.

No offense taken, and same for you if I say I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

I don't know Wand and I don't know his life story and I can't get either simply by observing him in practice, but I think I can perceive with reasonable accuracy when a player is generally out of it and I think I know when he is taking a ferocious beatdown.

If you want to think I am full of it, no one's stopping you, but the fact that you imply that I or anyone can't reasonably, generally discern his attitude and lack of correct play through basic observation is cause enough for me to ignore your opinions at this point.

 

[nunusguy]

he has some measurables and plays well in non contact drills .

And therein may lie the problem, because the last time I checked football, beginning on Sundays in September in the NFL, is a contact sport. And you either like contact or you don't. If you're a CB like P-Burnt, who doesn't seem too fond of contact, you can get by without that mean streak but its a definite disadvantage. But for a lineman, for defensive or offensive, it could be a fatal omission for real success in the NFL.