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A reminder of why Kris Brown deserves our gratitude

I've tried to stay away from this thread because I realize KB has been a board favorite. I think he's a good dude, but in the end we've got to do what's best for the team.

KB, and kickers alike, get paid nice chunks of change to kick. KB was just extended this past off-season signing for 4 years $10 million and 2.5 guaranteed. That's more than what a lot of position players receive. Players that actually put themselves in harms way getting paid less than a kicker? A kicker that has had an inconsistent career to boot?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an uncapped year mean teams can dump players without taking a cap hit? If so, I would think now would be the time to send him packing.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Morten Anderson is considered by some to be one of the top kickers of all time. Over 24 years his percentage was 79.7%. He only missed 10 extra points in all that time. I think he is the career scoring leader on 3 teams. I give him more credit because he started in 1982 when there was alot less indoor play. He also had 103 game winning FGs. He has 40 FGs of 50 or more. Again, I realize you aren't saying Brown is Anderson but this is kind of like the argument that Kubiak can be Landry.
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Morten Andersen...... :thinking:

25 seasons with New Orleans, Atlanta, NYG, KC, Minnesota and back to Atlanta. 22 seasons indoors. :hmmm:

And before someone says kicking indoors doesn't matter.... It DOES. I got and extra 10 yards on my kicks in the Astrodome versus Butler Stadium.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Morten Andersen...... :thinking:

25 seasons with New Orleans, Atlanta, NYG, KC, Minnesota and back to Atlanta. 22 seasons indoors. :hmmm:

And before someone says kicking indoors doesn't matter.... It DOES. I got and extra 10 yards on my kicks in the Astrodome versus Butler Stadium.
Click to expand...

Wait, you're a kicker? Why didn't you go talk to Kubiak?

I now blame the losses on you.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Morten Andersen...... :thinking:

25 seasons with New Orleans, Atlanta, NYG, KC, Minnesota and back to Atlanta. 22 seasons indoors. :hmmm:

And before someone says kicking indoors doesn't matter.... It DOES. I got and extra 10 yards on my kicks in the Astrodome versus Butler Stadium.
Click to expand...

My point was from when he started many stadiums weren't indoors. He didn't play ALL home games. But point made. I kicked too and never kicked indoors. So I wouldn't know. The guy was still a 6 time PB'er his first 10 years. He and Kris Brown aren't one in the same.
 
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Texan_Bill said:
I was a LB, OL and back-up kicker. That's why I stayed out of it.... :runaway:
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I was WR, DB and kicker. Kicked barefoot. Could kick deep on kickoffs and we didn't kick alot of FGs but hit a long of 45. Hit from 50 in practice. Not sure why I enjoyed barefoot...felt like I could get more on the ball. In law school, while drunk, we went up to Bellaire HS and tried to kick FGs. I basically almost broke my foot and there were big bruises all over the top of my foot. I guess your body feels better between 16-18 :)
 
TD said:
So why throw Brown away today instead of after TC next year? There is ZERO logic in it.
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I wouldn't say zero. I see at least two points of merit to dumping him now. First, it sends a message that performance is key, regardless of your contract status. You think players in the locker room aren't waiting for that hammer to fall? They know KB cost them chances.

Second, there's nothing you learn about KB in camp that you don't already know. You either confirm that he's lost it completely, or he makes the few kicks he gets chances at, in which case he still hasn't proven how he'll perform under pressure.

The one thing you do have to refer to, that is incontrovertible fact, is his 10+ year track record. Nothing in that track record suggests you can't do better.
 
eriadoc said:
I wouldn't say zero. I see at least two points of merit to dumping him now. First, it sends a message that performance is key, regardless of your contract status. You think players in the locker room aren't waiting for that hammer to fall? They know KB cost them chances.

Second, there's nothing you learn about KB in camp that you don't already know. You either confirm that he's lost it completely, or he makes the few kicks he gets chances at, in which case he still hasn't proven how he'll perform under pressure.

The one thing you do have to refer to, that is incontrovertible fact, is his 10+ year track record. Nothing in that track record suggests you can't do better.
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I don't see any real value to the team in dumping him now. The team lost the chance to send the performance message when they let him finish out the year. A team 100% committed to winning would have replaced him before the big week 16 and 17 games; maybe sooner. Trying to sign Carney or the guy that had the best performance in the recently completed UFL season would have been a lower risk than hoping Brown would snap out of it. The Texans were content to wait until next year before replacing the faulty part - that's the message they sent.

There might be some advantage to Brown himself if he is cut now, so he could shop his services around.

In any case, I don't think it will be difficult to replace him with a better kicker whenever the team gets around to making that decision.
 
eriadoc said:
The one thing you do have to refer to, that is incontrovertible fact, is his 10+ year track record. Nothing in that track record suggests you can't do better.
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Of course you can do better...you can also do worse. Or do you think teams that have worse kickers (sans last year) do so when there are better options out there?

Unless someone with a proven record of year in - year out consistency is there to pick up, you're taking a flyer no matter what. That's all I'm saying.
 
TD said:
Show me where I ever called him a stud (or great, or top tier, or awesome, or even really good).....can't anybody on this board @#$%^*ing read?????
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Did I say you called him a stud? Maybe you should learn how to read?

Look at the quote made by you:

Its not loyalty...its fear that the Texans make the wrong decision without looking at it fully; some team picks him up; and he returns to 2007-2008 form. The only solace I have is that I know it won't be the Titans which would KILL me.
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That, to me, looks you defending Brown as if he's a stud kicker. He's below-average. I highly doubt we should be "fearing" Kris Brown.
 
TimeKiller said:
Is this thread still alive?

Wowzers.
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Exactly. LOL.

If they wanted rid of Brown in a way so as to make a statement, it would have happened already. It hasn't. Since he's under a contract, he'll be back for training camp unless they trade him, and no one would want him. So, we all get to see him this coming fall again.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
That, to me, looks you defending Brown as if he's a stud kicker. He's below-average. I highly doubt we should be "fearing" Kris Brown.
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You're inferring what isn't there. I am defending that the FO should evaluate next TC and then decide. It is just plain stupid to cut him now. Believe it or not, we could wind up with worse IF he corrects himself.

I don't LOVE Kris Brown...he is not my brother....I don't worship him from afar. I make a living talking people out of making premature decisions. It bleeds over here I guess.
 
Premature would have bene cutting Kris Brown during training camp in '09. Premature stopped after the MNF game against Tennessee. His due date arrived the Tuesday after.
 
All I know is the Texans need to bring in some competition at both punter and kicker.

Kris Brown is going to have to prove himself. His job is not safe.
 
While I agree Kris Brown had a down year, it was not altogether his fault. By that I mean, the kicker has to have coordination and cooperation between himself, the holder and the ST center. Last year he ended up with Hawkins I believe at center. This year because of injuries, he has had at least 3 different snappers. Dreesen, Casey (R), and one other. I'm not taking up for Kris, I'm just saying that with all the turmoil it was hard to keep his confidence up.
 
NBT said:
While I agree Kris Brown had a down year, it was not altogether his fault. By that I mean, the kicker has to have coordination and cooperation between himself, the holder and the ST center. Last year he ended up with Hawkins I believe at center. This year because of injuries, he has had at least 3 different snappers. Dreesen, Casey (R), and one other. I'm not taking up for Kris, I'm just saying that with all the turmoil it was hard to keep his confidence up.
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I'd buy that if a good-sized portion of these were bad/high snap situations...they clearly weren't.
 
HoustonFrog said:
I was WR, DB and kicker. Kicked barefoot. Could kick deep on kickoffs and we didn't kick alot of FGs but hit a long of 45. Hit from 50 in practice. Not sure why I enjoyed barefoot...felt like I could get more on the ball. In law school, while drunk, we went up to Bellaire HS and tried to kick FGs. I basically almost broke my foot and there were big bruises all over the top of my foot. I guess your body feels better between 16-18 :)
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I kicked barefoot as well. Tony Franklin was my hero. Anywho, I tried kicking a ball last year and I hurt my hip, groin, knee and I also bruised my foot. WTF?? Sucks getting old.
 
TD said:
You're inferring what isn't there. I am defending that the FO should evaluate next TC and then decide. It is just plain stupid to cut him now. Believe it or not, we could wind up with worse IF he corrects himself.
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You compared him to Andersen. With or without your disclaimer, you compared him to Andersen, a stud. That tells me you acting like he may have stud potential.

TD said:
Just on a lark, I looked at Morten Andersen's first 10 years in the league. Anyone care to guess who was better between him and Brown? In fact, if not for a really good last few years, their career averages would be almost identical. (Brown would be slightly better)
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Just on a lark, I looked at Roger Staubach's and John Elway's first 5 years to compare them to David Carr's 5 with the Texans...
Staubach - 66.4 QB rating
Elway - 72.86 QB rating
Carr - 75.02 QB rating

What were we thinking?!?!?!? Shoulda brought him back to compete.
 
scourge said:
Just on a lark, I looked at Roger Staubach's and John Elway's first 5 years to compare them to David Carr's 5 with the Texans...
Staubach - 66.4 QB rating
Elway - 72.86 QB rating
Carr - 75.02 QB rating

What were we thinking?!?!?!? Shoulda brought him back to compete.
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You can't just average five years of QB ratings to get the overall QB rating for the period. You averaged in two years he barely played and weighted them equal to years he started almost the whole time and had 104 and 94 QB ratings. PS - Staubach was 23-5 in that time period.
 
Texan_Bill said:
I kicked barefoot as well. Tony Franklin was my hero. Anywho, I tried kicking a ball last year and I hurt my hip, groin, knee and I also bruised my foot. WTF?? Sucks getting old.
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You should've hacked the toes off on your kicking foot and gone Pro.
 
scourge said:
Just on a lark, I looked at Roger Staubach's and John Elway's first 5 years to compare them to David Carr's 5 with the Texans...
Staubach - 66.4 QB rating
Elway - 72.86 QB rating
Carr - 75.02 QB rating

What were we thinking?!?!?!? Shoulda brought him back to compete.
Click to expand...

Not only is your logic flawed as pointed out, all I meant was that you can't judge a trend off a single year.

Forget all this wonderful 20/20 hindsight you now enjoy. After the 1990 season Anderson was a 77% career FG kicker coming off 69%, 72%, and 78% the previous three years (he was bad getting consistently worse). By what I see here, every one of you would have cut him at the end of 1990 season at the latest.

BUT....New Orleans brought him in to TC instead....and the rest is history. There was an argument for cutting Brown during the season....but when the Jets beat Cincinnati that argument evaporated. The decision needs to be made in August when we are sure we have a better option. Just because he may be low average, doesn't mean there is a better option. If it did, there wouldn't be any bad kickers in the league.
 
disaacks3 said:
I'd buy that if a good-sized portion of these were bad/high snap situations...they clearly weren't.
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Actually, I remember there being a lot of bad snaps (mostly high snaps) early in the season. I remember specifically mentioning it on here during that time, too.

Look, the guy is just done here.

It happens.

Kickers are weird. Move them across the country to a new team, and they start hitting everything they kick at.

Weird.
 
infantrycak said:
You can't just average five years of QB ratings to get the overall QB rating for the period. You averaged in two years he barely played and weighted them equal to years he started almost the whole time and had 104 and 94 QB ratings. PS - Staubach was 23-5 in that time period.
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Fair enough. Strike Staubach, but look at Elway.

Or even instead check out Elway vs. Carr completion % for those 5 years, since we are basically trying to justify Kris' completion %.

Elway
47.5
56.3
54
55.6
54.6
AVG% of 53.6

Carr
52.5
56.6
61.2
60.5
68.3
AVG% of 59.8
 
infantrycak said:
You can't just average five years of QB ratings to get the overall QB rating for the period. You averaged in two years he barely played and weighted them equal to years he started almost the whole time and had 104 and 94 QB ratings. PS - Staubach was 23-5 in that time period.
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I would probably compare Brown to Jon Kitna. Might have a few upticks in his career, but overall an average QB at best.
 
TD said:
Not only is your logic flawed as pointed out, all I meant was that you can't judge a trend off a single year.

Forget all this wonderful 20/20 hindsight you now enjoy. After the 1990 season Anderson was a 77% career FG kicker coming off 69%, 72%, and 78% the previous three years (he was bad getting consistently worse). By what I see here, every one of you would have cut him at the end of 1990 season at the latest.

BUT....New Orleans brought him in to TC instead....and the rest is history. There was an argument for cutting Brown during the season....but when the Jets beat Cincinnati that argument evaporated. The decision needs to be made in August when we are sure we have a better option. Just because he may be low average, doesn't mean there is a better option. If it did, there wouldn't be any bad kickers in the league.
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No reason to disagree with me, I am trying to show other comparisons that could also help your case. We as fans seem to have been too hard on a previous QB, just like we apparently are now with Brown. If we wait long enough, we are bound to strike gold by waiting for a career subpar player to become great.

We naysayers just need to calm down and step away from the "jump to conclusions mat" about Kris Brown's suckage...

/sarcasm
 
TD said:
Just another of my isms that I use when somebody seems offended by something silly. Perhaps...a simple "grow up" would be better. :)
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This is rich, man. Telling me to grow up when I call you out for making gay references because people don't like our kicker?

ooooooh-kay :ok: lolzzzzzz

It has nothing to do with being offended, though. :)

eriadoc said:
I wouldn't say zero. I see at least two points of merit to dumping him now. First, it sends a message that performance is key, regardless of your contract status. You think players in the locker room aren't waiting for that hammer to fall? They know KB cost them chances.

Second, there's nothing you learn about KB in camp that you don't already know. You either confirm that he's lost it completely, or he makes the few kicks he gets chances at, in which case he still hasn't proven how he'll perform under pressure.

The one thing you do have to refer to, that is incontrovertible fact, is his 10+ year track record. Nothing in that track record suggests you can't do better.
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This is pretty much how I feel. If they want to bring him back, whatever, it's their call. But if I had a say, dude would have been cut on January 4. Send a message that we cannot tolerate failure, especially from a player with a singular purpose. Keeping him just appears to reward mediocrity and failure, but that's pretty much what we fans do when we buy season tickets every year. ;)
 
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scourge said:
Just on a lark, I looked at Roger Staubach's and John Elway's first 5 years to compare them to David Carr's 5 with the Texans...
Staubach - 66.4 QB rating
Elway - 72.86 QB rating
Carr - 75.02 QB rating

What were we thinking?!?!?!? Shoulda brought him back to compete.
Click to expand...

I know you're just joking about it but...

Offenses were very different in these periods. As offensive schemes have improved over the years, the QB ratings have gone up as well. There was a time when people were blown away having a year QB rating in the 90's. But now you've got to get it into the 100's.

In 2000, there were 2 guys in the 100's and 5 more in the 90's. This year, there were 5 guys in the 100's and 5 more in the 90's. In 1980 before Bill Walsh's renovation of the passing game, there were 2 guys in the 90's.

It's a different game.
 
scourge said:
Fair enough. Strike Staubach, but look at Elway.

Or even instead check out Elway vs. Carr completion % for those 5 years, since we are basically trying to justify Kris' completion %.

Elway
47.5
56.3
54
55.6
54.6
AVG% of 53.6

Carr
52.5
56.6
61.2
60.5
68.3
AVG% of 59.8
Click to expand...

If you watch a game you won't see Elway throwing mostly hitch passes. Also, you can't compare back to Stauback. Back then there was no five yard chuck rule and WR's were pushed around all over the field. Offensive hand placement rules were different then as well as no protection for the QB as you see today. Totally different dynamics.
 
This thread is full of "fail"

If you can't make the big kicks I don't care if you kick 90% of your field goals, if you miss the important ones you gotta go. It's called performing under pressure and Kris Brown has failed a couple times not just with the Texans on pressure kicks. He's gotta go.

:shots:
 
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