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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

So Bryce Young measured almost the exact same and Kyler Murray—5'10 1/8, 204lbs. Hopefully whatever team takes him isn't getting the same quality of QB because that is the albatross you want to avoid... Kyler much better runner and ability to make plays with his feet; strong arm also and about the same accuracy. Young, very high football IQ, poise, decision making.

Will they end up being similar quality players when it's all said and done? A lot of tough decisions coming for GMs.

 
Regardless of your personal feelings on Levis how do you think the fan reaction goes if we draft Levis at 2? Does the organization immediately lose all good will they got by hiring Ryans or does the fanbase quickly talk themselves into Levis?
I actually wouldn't have much problem taking Richardson or Levis in a year there's no consensus QB. I just don't want the Texans to take them @ 2 and miss out on badly needed front-7 cornerstone player. Also easier to get off a low floor/high potential QB prospect when selected out of a lottery selection.
 
Kinda off-topic, but posting this because it demonstrates how Stroud's semi-retarded comments yesterday are NOTHING compared to what some grown men in professional sports are doing right now.

The picture below is Ja Morant, one of the NBA's best players, on Instragram livestreaming yesterday brandishing a gun. WTF?!! Can you imagine the nightmare he's just created for the league office. WTF is this guy doing??

 
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Elway,Stafford,and RG3 had big arms. Mahomes has a big arm and Brett Favre as well as Rodgers all got big arms.
A WCO QB has to be much more accurate than Richardson's 54% completion %. Levis doesn't move that well and throw on the run. He also has a lot of mechanical and decision making issues.
 
So Bryce Young measured almost the exact same and Kyler Murray—5'10 1/8, 204lbs. Hopefully whatever team takes him isn't getting the same quality of QB because that is the albatross you want to avoid... Kyler much better runner and ability to make plays with his feet; stronger arm also and about the same accuracy. Young, very high football IQ, poise, decision making.

Will they end up being similar quality players when it's all said and done? A lot of tough decisions coming for GMs.

Are you overlooking Murray's injury history? 204 lbs on a slight frame is still a slight frame as far as injury risk. Can Young even retain this extra weight........and without losing performance? Was it fat or lean muscle weight. And since he didn't have to perform at the Combine, did he attain that weight by drinking lots of water and not peeing in the past 12 hours.........or eating like a pig and not prioritizing bowel movements over the past week.:thinking:

These are all legitimate questions that still remain.
 
Are you overlooking Murray's injury history? 204 lbs on a slight frame is still a slight frame as far as injury risk. Can Young even retain this extra weight........and without losing performance? Was it fat or lean muscle weight. And since he didn't have to perform at the Combine, did he attain that weight by drinking lots of water and not peeing in the past 12 hours.........or eating like a pig and not prioritizing bowel movements over the past week.:thinking:

These are all legitimate questions that still remain.
Yep... exactly. Part of me wants to see modern Flutie clone game though. I remember rooting for Flutie twenty some odd years ago, and the NFL rules and WCO offense might work for a guy like Young. And he's more talented. It would be exciting to see at least!
 
A WCO QB has to be much more accurate than Richardson's 54% completion %. Levis doesn't move that well and throw on the run. He also has a lot of mechanical and decision making issues.
We won't be running a traditional Walsh WCO. It's the Shanahan offense built on heavy zone scheme and lots of play action to stretch the field. We've seen a predecessor during the Kubiak Era.

The WCO and Shanny system share vocabulary but are diametrically opposed in their philosophy.

Not saying I want any QB this draft...just saying the needed skill sets differ.

It's more important for the QB to have a little mobility and be an accurate mid and deep passer.

Imagine Kubs offense with a QB who could lead receivers deep, instead of AJ having to come back for deep passes. Schaub had that killer play fake, but a little more mobility and a live arm would have taken us to the next level.

If Young had Kyler Murray's frame, I'd be pounding the table for him. Unfortunately, he doesn't.
 
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There's always risk in trading down. What if the team they trade with takes the QB the Texans want? Are you prepared to wait until 2024 for a new QB and roll with Mills and whatever FA QB the Texans bring in?

DocBar….If I were making the decisions, I’m taking a QB. My QB target could be there in late RD1 or anywhere by early RD3. I don’t really care who analyst’s have identified as early RD1 candidates, my eyes say Hooker can do everything the other QB’s can do and better….and a non contact injury could drop him in my lap later. This allows those RD1 picks to address other major areas of need.
 
I actually wouldn't have much problem taking Richardson or Levis in a year there's no consensus QB. I just don't want the Texans to take them @ 2 and miss out on badly needed front-7 cornerstone player. Also easier to get off a low floor/high potential QB prospect when selected out of a lottery selection.

What does consensus QB even mean? I mean, if you think that's reserved for the Trevor Lawrence, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning types, then you'll be waiting a looooong time and need a lot of luck to get a QB.

And who says there's no consensus QB? It seems to me Young, Stroud, Levis and Richardson are the consensus top of the class. Just because you don't think they are doesn't mean crap. At least 3 of those QBs, if not all 4 are probably going top half of the 1st, with 2 likely in the top 5. Seems pretty consensus to me.

The Texans are a QB needy team and they're in position to likely get their choice of the 4. Waiting because you think next year will have a better crop doesn't mean you'll be in a position to do anything about it. I mean, unless you're looking at suffering through another 2-4 win season. From what the Texans are doing so far this offseason it appears they are not interested in doing that again. Draft your QB and let's go. If it doesn't work out, oh well, it doesn't for half the league. Try it again in a couple of years.
 
ESPN draft analyst Jordan Reid:
Young often gets stuck at the apex of the pocket and looks to throw at the peak or escape. What made Brees/Wilson outliers as shorter QBs is their pocket maneuverability to create throwing windows. If Young develops that consistently, he can take his development to a high level.
 
Regardless of your personal feelings on Levis how do you think the fan reaction goes if we draft Levis at 2? Does the organization immediately lose all good will they got by hiring Ryans or does the fanbase quickly talk themselves into Levis?
There are things to like about Levis, but I'd be pretty upset if the Texans took him high...even at 12.

The kid has a super compact release, has ideal size, and played in a pro style system. His 2021 was impressive. Playing hurt in 2022 may be the reason for his step back, but who really knows. If he fell and we moved into the high 20s for him, I could be good with that.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
 
We won't be running a traditional Walsh WCO. It's the Shanahan offense built on heavy zone scheme and lots of play action to stretch the field. We've seen a predecessor during the Kubiak Era.

The WCO and Shanny system share vocabulary but are diametrically opposed in their philosophy.

Not saying I want any QB this draft...just saying the needed skill sets differ.

It's more important for the QB to have a little mobility and be an accurate mid and deep passer.

Imagine Kubs offense with a QB who could lead receivers deep, instead of AJ having to come back for deep passes. Schaub had that killer play fake, but a little more mobility and a live arm would have taken us to the next level.

If Young had Kyler Murray's frame, I'd be pounding the table for him. Unfortunately, he doesn't.
WCO
 
The 2nd RD is loaded and may have the best talent and value from top to bottom. Load up DeMeco!

TRADE #1 - Houston TRADES #2 to Las Vegas for #7, #38, 2024 1st RD

TRADE #2 - Houston TRADES #7 to Carolina for #9, #61

TRADE #3 - Houston TRADES Laremy Tunsil to Chicago for #54 and 2024 2nd RD.

Houston Texans Draft Picks:

RD 1 - #9
RD 1 - #12
RD 2 - #33
RD 2 - #38
RD 2 - #54
RD 2 - #61

2024 (3) 1st RD (2) 2nd RD.
I'm going to run this through the draft simulator, exactly how you call it out, and see what I can come up with.
 
Are you overlooking Murray's injury history? 204 lbs on a slight frame is still a slight frame as far as injury risk. Can Young even retain this extra weight........and without losing performance? Was it fat or lean muscle weight. And since he didn't have to perform at the Combine, did he attain that weight by drinking lots of water and not peeing in the past 12 hours.........or eating like a pig and not prioritizing bowel movements over the past week.:thinking:

These are all legitimate questions that still remain.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. If you look at Murray and Young side by side, there is an OBVIOUS difference in frame. Murray is much thicker, so I have to question how Young put on the weight, and how much he will be able to retain as muscle.
 
The 2nd RD is loaded and may have the best talent and value from top to bottom. Load up DeMeco!

TRADE #1 - Houston TRADES #2 to Las Vegas for #7, #38, 2024 1st RD

TRADE #2 - Houston TRADES #7 to Carolina for #9, #61

TRADE #3 - Houston TRADES Laremy Tunsil to Chicago for #54 and 2024 2nd RD.

Houston Texans Draft Picks:

RD 1 - #9
RD 1 - #12
RD 2 - #33
RD 2 - #38
RD 2 - #54
RD 2 - #61

2024 (3) 1st RD (2) 2nd RD.
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since they weren't drafted, I'm trying to bring in the following RB's as UDFA's:

Travis Dye Running Back USC | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com)
Xazavian Valladay Running Back Arizona State | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com)
Jordan Mims Running Back Fresno State | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com)
Evan Hull Can No Longer Be Ignored After Senior Bowl (thedraftnetwork.com)
 
We won't be running a traditional Walsh WCO. It's the Shanahan offense built on heavy zone scheme and lots of play action to stretch the field. We've seen a predecessor during the Kubiak Era.

The WCO and Shanny system share vocabulary but are diametrically opposed in their philosophy.

Not saying I want any QB this draft...just saying the needed skill sets differ.

It's more important for the QB to have a little mobility and be an accurate mid and deep passer.

Imagine Kubs offense with a QB who could lead receivers deep, instead of AJ having to come back for deep passes. Schaub had that killer play fake, but a little more mobility and a live arm would have taken us to the next level.

If Young had Kyler Murray's frame, I'd be pounding the table for him. Unfortunately, he doesn't.
Contrary to popular belief, the Shanahan Offense is based on motion, RPOs, bootlegs, screens, designed QB runs and timing based on 3,5, and 7-step drops, check-downs, a game manager who doesn't make mistakes and gets the ball in the playmaker's hands. That and a good ZBS running game. Let's just pretend that none of this is true for a moment, as you suggest. Shanahan's offense is still not conducive to a 54% completion passer or a QB with a case of happy feet, a bad throwing motion, lacks of mobility, makes bad decisions, and has other mechanical issues.

BTW Schaub hit AJ on deep patterns quite a few times. If you watch an AJ highlight video you see that often.
 

How is this folding under pressure when it was basically a jail break and it looked like he was throwing the ball away? C'mon bro
Thanks for posting. I have tried to find a video without success. This is example of someone throwing crap at the wall and hoping no one finds out it is 💩. When I watched the game, I thought it was targeting. I did think it was a desperation play but admired the quarterback for at least trying to score. If it had been a touchdown Stroud would still be getting accolades. As with QBs getting hit, WRs have this occur sometimes. In NFL, every player get paid for it.
 
If he was throwing it away then why didn't he throw it away, instead of trying to throw it to Harrison?
QBs, good ones leave enough for a possible foot down score but defense cannot intercept. We often see that on sideline throws, end zone not so much.
 
I love it, I'm not sure you can do much more to better improve the team. My focus on WR is next year with Marvin Harrison, Emeka Egbuka, Brock Bowers. They are light years ahead of this class. Don't want to miss on one of them because I used a 2 on Johnson.
 
Thanks for posting. I have tried to find a video without success. This is example of someone throwing crap at the wall and hoping no one finds out it is 💩. When I watched the game, I thought it was targeting. I did think it was a desperation play but admired the quarterback for at least trying to score. If it had been a touchdown Stroud would still be getting accolades. As with QBs getting hit, WRs have this occur sometimes. In NFL, every player get paid for it.
But he still panicked under pressure and cost them the game. He did the same thing in the Michigan game. This has been the knock on him and he showed everybody why. Now imagine how bad it could be if Stroud is not playing behind a 5-Star OL and not playing with world-class WRs where he often has < 3 seconds to throw.
 
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• Points to Stroud for being so honest in his media availability. He showed accountability as a leader in saying he should have run more as a Buckeye, and awareness for where he needs to get better. He showed loyalty in saying he didn’t want to go to Chicago, because of what that would mean for his ex-teammate Justin Fields, who he considers a big brother. He explained the football stuff at a high level.

Will all that matter in where he’s drafted? It actually might. One knock on Stroud has concerned his maturity as a quarterback, and with all that playing the position entails. He showed a lot of it on Friday, and if teams are walking away from interviews with the same sort of impression that he’s growing as a person, it certainly could impact his stock.

We’ll all be watching for Young’s weight on Saturday (he weighs in early in the morning). Teams will also be interested to see where USC star receiver Jordan Addison is in that department. Listed at 6’0” and 175 pounds last year, the 2021 Biletnikoff Award winner has a chance to be the first receiver taken, but there are fair questions to ask about how he’ll physically stand up to the rigors of an NFL season, especially after injuries cost him three games last year.


The quarterbacks workout Saturday, and the four presumed first rounders—Alabama’s Bryce Young, Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud, Kentucky’s Will Levis and Florida’s Anthony Richardson—will head into the day into uniquely different spots.

For Young, really, there was enough to lose by working out, which is probably why he won’t. For Stroud, this should be a showcase, given his strength and that he throws the prettiest ball in the draft. For Levis, there’s something to gain by throwing. For Richardson, there’s a lot to gain. And so we had an NFC assistant coach who’s studied the class to give us a little break down on what to look for with the four tomorrow afternoon.

Young: “It’s smart to not throw for him, he would not look great in this environment. His ball placement’s really good, he can spin it fine. But his arm is just ok strength-wise. He’s incredible in the areas Levis and Richardson struggle with—he knows how to throw the appropriate ball, with the right touch and timing. And in a combine environment, with no defenders out there, he might just look smaller and weaker than the other guys. So it’s good that he’s not throwing.”

Stroud: “He’s such a natural thrower. He makes throws easily with touch, he can layer balls over defenders from the pocket. I expect him to throw it really well, he should be right in his wheelhouse tomorrow, it should look clean. He plays with good footwork, the right base, he’s a prime candidate for a day like this. He should throw. He’ll definitely look great. … The questions with him are more that he had better wideouts than most of the NFL, and two first-round tackles, kind of like Mac [Jones] coming out of Bama, although he’s way more talented than Mac.

Levis: “He’s got a Jimmy [Garoppolo] type of uber quick release, and because of that, and the sort of locked motion he’s got, everything is a fastball. He struggles to throw with touch, but he can do it, it’s just not consistent. So I want to see touch on his ball, throw some corner routes with air underneath them, nine routes where he’s getting the ball to turn over. Can he throw with touch accurately consistently? His footwork should be great, so really you’re looking for him throwing the right kinds of ball consistently.”

Richardson: “Anthony’s gonna look like Cam. He’s gigantic, can throw the hell out of the ball. But like Will, the issue is throwing with touch, anticipation and the consistency in accuracy. He’s shown can be accurate, but as a total player, he’s not been an accurate passer. … He has the most to show—proper footwork, his base, throwing on time, his accuracy and ability to throw the right ball every time, in those areas, he can help himself a ton.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/03/n...j-stroud-anthony-richardson-saturday-workouts
 
Contrary to popular belief, the Shanahan Offense is based on motion, RPOs, bootlegs, screens, designed QB runs and timing based on 3,5, and 7-step drops, check-downs, a game manager who doesn't make mistakes and gets the ball in the playmaker's hands. That and a good ZBS running game. Let's just pretend that none of this is true for a moment, as you suggest. Shanahan's offense is still not conducive to a 54% completion passer or a QB with a case of happy feet, a bad throwing motion, lacks of mobility, makes bad decisions, and has other mechanical issues.

BTW Schaub hit AJ on deep patterns quite a few times. If you watch an AJ highlight video you see that often.
WCO
 
Contrary to popular belief, the Shanahan Offense is based on motion, RPOs, bootlegs, screens, designed QB runs and timing based on 3,5, and 7-step drops, check-downs, a game manager who doesn't make mistakes and gets the ball in the playmaker's hands. That and a good ZBS running game. Let's just pretend that none of this is true for a moment, as you suggest. Shanahan's offense is still not conducive to a 54% completion passer or a QB with a case of happy feet, a bad throwing motion, lacks of mobility, makes bad decisions, and has other mechanical issues.

BTW Schaub hit AJ on deep patterns quite a few times. If you watch an AJ highlight video you see that often.

You are absolutely correct about the Shanahan Offense, with the added caveats that it tends to be run heavy and that the zone run is used to set up the pass. Philosophically, the Shanahan offense is looking to create horizontal space for the RB and for chunk yardage off play action. It also tires out the defense by making them play sideline to sideline on run plays. Its really not even the WCO except in how the plays are called...and even that has probably evolved. And I completely agree that 54% completion does not cut it. My post was more to add detail than to disagree...my apologies if it seemed otherwise.

In an earlier post I believe you referenced our system as the "Walsh WCO" (or maybe just WCO) which has a different philosophy of using short and intermediate passes to loosen the defense to set up the run. It relies more heavily on the short passing/screen game to keep the chains moving and to create vertical space for the run. It tires out the defense by making them play sideline to sideline on passing plays.

All systems use play action to some degree, but Shanahan (both Big and Lil Shanny) took play action (disguised as an outside zone run) to an art form.

And I watched every game during the Kubiak era...I dont need to look at highlights. Schaub under threw his deep passes with criminal regularity...even though AJ had created enough separation to take it to the house. Its one of the big reasons AJ does not have the TD numbers of other HOF worthy receivers.
 
You are absolutely correct about the Shanahan Offense, with the added caveats that it tends to be run heavy and that the zone run is used to set up the pass. Philosophically, the Shanahan offense is looking to create horizontal space for the RB and for chunk yardage off play action. It also tires out the defense by making them play sideline to sideline on run plays. Its really not even the WCO except in how the plays are called...and even that has probably evolved. And I completely agree that 54% completion does not cut it. My post was more to add detail than to disagree...my apologies if it seemed otherwise.







In an earlier post I believe you referenced our system as the "Walsh WCO" (or maybe just WCO) which has a different philosophy of using short and intermediate passes to loosen the defense to set up the run. It relies more heavily on the short passing/screen game to keep the chains moving and to create vertical space for the run. It tires out the defense by making them play sideline to sideline on passing plays.







All systems use play action to some degree, but Shanahan (both Big and Lil Shanny) took play action (disguised as an outside zone run) to an art form.







And I watched every game during the Kubiak era...I dont need to look at highlights. Schaub under threw his deep passes with criminal regularity...even though AJ had created enough separation to take it to the house. Its one of the big reasons AJ does not have the TD numbers of other HOF worthy receivers.



1 disagreement here. It IS a west coast passing attack behind a horizontal run game. Otherwise, a great post.
 
Thank God Texian isn't the GM.He traded all the way back to 9 and got a high 2nd, a low 2nd and a 1st next year. That is terrible. Then he trades Tunsil for a bad 2nd and one next year. Another bad take, as usual
 
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