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2017 Texans Free Agents/Salary Cap Situation: Where do we stand?

thunderkyss said:
Bringing Fitzpatrick in to be our starter after being releases from his contract with the Titans already smells of the Texans thinking they're the smartest guys in the room.

Signing Hoyer to more money than Fitz after the QB needy Browns figured they were better without him... & subsequently releasing Fitzpatrick, carries a stronger "smartest guy in the room" stench.

Going all in on Osweiler after 7 games reeks of "smartest guy in the room"

Now is the time for the Texans to lie in the bed they've made. Make the best of the QBs they have, move forward accumulating draft picks until a true #1 overall prospect shows up, then trade those assets to get the next Phillip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck.

If they feel good about a Tj Yates, Tom Savage, Case Keenum... fine. But we need to take a shot at the top of the draft in the next two or three years. That includes this year. If they feel good about Watson & want to go get him, I'm fine with that. Trubisky, Mahomes whatever.

But bringing in Cutler is the same mistake we've made with Fitz & Hoyer.
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I am with you on keeping what we have at Qb. I could even see us trying to move up in round 1 for a young Qb prospect but to me there is no need for that. I am sure a solid prospect could be had in rounds three and four in the draft. Let that young player spend at least two seasons on our squad to soak in the offensive system. Let the other three battle for a spot on the team and for depth chart purposes. If this seasons Qb draft pick looks terribly lost or does not seem to be learning enough we should let him go.

None the less, whatever may be, aside from having a season where our Qb starter excels and we win atleast 11 games , we should draft a Qb in every draft. If things look as bad as they did at Qb the last three seasons we for sure should try to move up in a draft for a Qb.

As of now, I think we should stay with the status quo at Qb and draft a young Qb somewhere from round 3 to round 4.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
This is how it's going to work.......................

1]Smith picks the bananas

2]O'Brien evaluates the bananas

3]McNair in his infinite football wisdom decides on the top banana

4]And O'Brien again gets stuck working with and taking responsibility for another
View attachment 1371up his tailpipe...........................
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It is all to easy to pass the buck when it comes to blame on the Qb's but O'b is not without blame. A top coach would make changes to the system as needed and if that was not working he would start the next Qb on the depth chart and use all three in hopes one succeeds. Preferably with his initial system but if finding a system that better fits any one of his Qb's is what is needed that coach should be more than willing to go that route.
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
It is all to easy to pass the buck when it comes to blame on the Qb's but O'b is not without blame. A top coach would make changes to the system as needed and if that was not working he would start the next Qb on the depth chart and use all three in hopes one succeeds. Preferably with his initial system but if finding a system that better fits any one of his Qb's is what is needed that coach should be more than willing to go that route.
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Refer to #3.
And as to your suggestion of changing the system, without the benefit of OTAs and preseason, that is not possible, if not suicidal.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
This is how it's going to work.......................

1]Smith picks the bananas

2]O'Brien evaluates the bananas

3]McNair in his infinite football wisdom decides on the top banana

4]And O'Brien again gets stuck working with and taking responsibility for another
View attachment 1371up his tailpipe...........................
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momma used to take bananas like that and make pudding. my momma is not the Texans GM. I miss my momma...
 
DocBar said:
It's just as likely that OB is View attachment 1371 his own tailpipe as anyone else. Smith and OB supposedly pick the bananas together and OB "coaches" them up. Do you have a link showing McNair deciding on which bananas are ripe for the picking? The whole process with the Texans is so convoluted that it's hard to pin the tail on the donkey. All facets of the decision making chain of command give plausible deniability. I pin that tail on McNair (either one) because it's his/their decision to operate this way. The obfuscation of responsibilities is maddening for a fan. See also SBT and Texian.
:kitten:
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You're correct, this is on the McNair's. I have a feeling that Cal McNair is the defacto GM. That would explain the issues inside the group on Kirby and should scare the crap out of all Texans fans.

Of course you think I have an agenda so my thoughts don't really matter to you.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
This is how it's going to work.......................

1]Smith picks the bananas

2]O'Brien evaluates the bananas
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You forgot the part where O'b describes the kind of bananas he likes.

Rick Smith has been doing his job the way many other GMs in the league does. He is not forcing players on O'b he doesn't like.

As far as the Garoppolo thing goes, I'm sure O'b did want him, just like he probably wanted Bortles & Savage. If he wanted Garoppolo bad enough we'd have got him. We'd have traded up to get him like we did Nix & Strong.

McNair does what he's supposed to do. Let the football guys handle the football stuff until they screw up. McNair may be more upset than anyone that the two didn't put enough priority on QB in 2014 that he ok'd the $72M mistake.

I have no problem if McNair is telling them to get the #1 QB on their board in this upcoming draft. If that's what he's telling them.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Refer to #3.
And as to your suggestion of changing the system, without the benefit of OTAs and preseason, that is not possible, if not suicidal.
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It is not a matter of changing the system as much as it is a matter of scaling things down and making minor tweaks. Mike McCoy formerly offensive coordinator of the Broncos showed it could be done

The Broncos wisely called back Mike McCoy. What new Head Coach Vance Joseph says sums it up."I want a guy that fits the scheme to the players," Joseph said Thursday. "I want coordinators that put players first and schemes second. If it doesn’t fit the players, let’s not do it. My thought there is 'players first, scheme second.'"

I never felt O'b had any idea how to do that. Him or GG. Still, GG was the scapegoat for the offenses struggles. O'b more or less acknowledged that he would have more to do with the offense after the second game of last seasons regular season. At which point BO struggled the most. Coincidence? Maybe, but who really knows?

I won't make excuses for BO and I am no cheerleader for him. I do however feel that he has the talent to do better. If he is to get that chance again he should have to fight for the starting Qb job. He and O'b should have a better feel for one another and in that regard O'b can better evaluate things next season.
 
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TxnsJuggernaut said:
I never felt O'b had any idea how to do that. Him or GG. Still, GG was the scapegoat for the offenses struggles. O'b more or less acknowledged that he would have more to do with the offense after the second game of last seasons regular season. At which point BO struggled the most. Coincidence? Maybe, but who really knows?

I won't make excuses for BO and I am no cheerleader for him. I do however feel that he has the talent to do better. If he is to get that chance again he should have to fight for the starting Qb job. He and O'b should have a better feel for one another and in that regard O'b can better evaluate things next season.
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I don't know that Godsey was a scapegoat. He probably sucked at his job. As head coach, it's O'bs job to work with his coordinators, who work with the position coaches. He may have spent the last two seasons trying to get Godsey to elevate his position coaches production.

O'b probably thought he had a problem with his position coaches, several of them have been fired or let go since the 2014 season. This year, he probably realized the issue was the coordinator. Then seeing how Godsey couldn't get a position on the offensive side of the ball... he's going to be a defensive assistant, which pretty much means he's starting over. He'll be breaking down film & holding tackling dummies. There's a lot of smoke there that says O'bs buddy wasn't a good coordinator.

In 2017, that layer of "management" will be removed & O'b will have more interaction with his position coaches, who will have the most influence on the players.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I don't know that Godsey was a scapegoat. He probably sucked at his job. As head coach, it's O'bs job to work with his coordinators, who work with the position coaches. He may have spent the last two seasons trying to get Godsey to elevate his position coaches production.

O'b probably thought he had a problem with his position coaches, several of them have been fired or let go since the 2014 season. This year, he probably realized the issue was the coordinator. Then seeing how Godsey couldn't get a position on the offensive side of the ball... he's going to be a defensive assistant, which pretty much means he's starting over. He'll be breaking down film & holding tackling dummies. There's a lot of smoke there that says O'bs buddy wasn't a good coordinator.

In 2017, that layer of "management" will be removed & O'b will have more interaction with his position coaches, who will have the most influence on the players.
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Godsey was acknowledged as the offensive coordinator the season before last. Last season O'b acknowledged he was taking on more of the play calling responsibility. The offensive system has always been O'bs but the play calling duties the year before last was more on GG than last season. If I am wrong correct me. However I somehow think O'b acknowledged having more say in calling plays on offense, two games in. No matter, if O'b wants the pressure of calling the offense next season I hope it works out. More power to him.
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
Godsey was acknowledged as the offensive coordinator the season before last. Last season O'b acknowledged he was taking on more of the play calling responsibility. The offensive system has always been O'bs but the play calling duties the year before last was more on GG than last season. If I am wrong correct me. However I somehow think O'b acknowledged having more say in calling plays on offense, two games in. No matter, if O'b wants the pressure of calling the offense next season I hope it works out. More power to him.
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I don't understand how any of this points to Godsey actually being good at his job, then being scapegoated.

The offense has sucked since O'b got here. I believe He's been grooming Godsey from day one & Godsey wasn't ready.

Calling plays on game day is only part of what the OC does. The game plan has to be disseminated to all position groups, so come game day the plays the coach wants to run can be ran at a high level.

After letting Godsey go, O'b could get a new OC & change everything. Things like that don't usually work too well that first year & if this is his last chance, it makes sense for him to take over OC duties, make the offense work.

One thing about the Patriots. They promote from within. & we don't have a line of folks ready to take over at OC.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't know that Godsey was a scapegoat. He probably sucked at his job. As head coach, it's O'bs job to work with his coordinators, who work with the position coaches. He may have spent the last two seasons trying to get Godsey to elevate his position coaches production.

thunderkyss said:
I don't understand how any of this points to Godsey actually being good at his job, then being scapegoated.

The offense has sucked since O'b got here. I believe He's been grooming Godsey from day one & Godsey wasn't ready.

Calling plays on game day is only part of what the OC does. The game plan has to be disseminated to all position groups, so come game day the plays the coach wants to run can be ran at a high level.

After letting Godsey go, O'b could get a new OC & change everything. Things like that don't usually work too well that first year & if this is his last chance, it makes sense for him to take over OC duties, make the offense work.

One thing about the Patriots. They promote from within. & we don't have a line of folks ready to take over at OC.
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I was under the impression O'b took over play calling duties in week 3 or 4 but I am unsure if he maintained that position throughout the rest of the season. If he didn't than I am sorry for not paying enough attention. If he did than I stand by my original stance. Position coaches be danged. In the early part of the season we had red zone problems but the offense had at least been to the red zone a fair share of times. After the first few weeks that was not the case.
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TxnsJuggernaut said:
I was under the impression O'b took over play calling duties in week 3 or 4 but I am unsure if he maintained that position throughout the rest of the season. If he didn't than I am sorry for not paying enough attention. If he did than I stand by my original stance. Position coaches be danged. In the early part of the season we had red zone problems but the offense had at least been to the red zone a fair share of times. After the first few weeks that was not the case.
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My point is that play calling is a small part of what the offensive coordinator does. He may be a great play caller, but if he's not good at getting his position coaches to meet expectations, thus the players fail to meet expectations... it doesn't matter what play he calls.

For all we know, our remedial looking offense was basic because Godsey couldn't get the team ready to execute a game plan within a week's time.
 
thunderkyss said:
My point is that play calling is a small part of what the offensive coordinator does. He may be a great play caller, but if he's not good at getting his position coaches to meet expectations, thus the players fail to meet expectations... it doesn't matter what play he calls.

For all we know, our remedial looking offense was basic because Godsey couldn't get the team ready to execute a game plan within a week's time.
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Well the good thing is O'b will get credit good or bad. Starting with whoever we end up with at Qb. Lets hope it is good.
 
WolverineFan said:
$9M a year for a RT is ridiculous. Especially when you consider Wagner is good but he's not at the same level as guys like Schwartz and Bulaga (who will be making $2-3M less per year).
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The price goes up every year. Hell watt isn't the highest paid player anymore. You think the guys making more than him are better than him?
 
mussop said:
The price goes up every year. Hell watt isn't the highest paid player anymore. You think the guys making more than him are better than him?
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The price goes up incrementally every year. The key is incrementally.

As far as DL go, Muhammad Wilkerson is making $600K more than Watt per year. Olivier Vernon is making $400K more. And those guys are All-Pros.

Wagner is about to make $2-3M more per year and he's never even made a Pro Bowl.
 
WolverineFan said:
The price goes up incrementally every year. The key is incrementally.

As far as DL go, Muhammad Wilkerson is making $600K more than Watt per year. Olivier Vernon is making $400K more. And those guys are All-Pros.

Wagner is about to make $2-3M more per year and he's never even made a Pro Bowl.
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And he's only 27 and he's at the best available free agent right tackle on the market. And the next best available free agent right tackles May and the next best available free agent right tackle is May and the next best available free agent right tackle Ismay and the next best available free-agent right tackle is May and the next best available free agent right tackles meh. And this is a poor class and this is a core class and this is a pore class in this is a poor class and this is a poor class of OTs in the draft. And we literally literally have no one on this team that could start at right tackle right now and be even below averageAnd we literally literally have no one on this team they could start at right tackle right now and be even below average and we literally literally have no one on this team that could start at right tackle right now and B even below average and we literally literally have no one on this team they can start at right tackle right now and be even below average and we literally literally have no one on this team that could start at right tackle right now and-average.
 
mussop said:
And he's only 27 and he's at the best available free agent right tackle on the market. And the next best available free agent right tackles May and the next best available free agent right tackle is May and the next best available free agent right tackle Ismay and the next best available free-agent right tackle is May and the next best available free agent right tackles meh. And this is a poor class and this is a core class and this is a pore class in this is a poor class and this is a poor class of OTs in the draft. And we literally literally have no one on this team that could start at right tackle right now and be even below averageAnd we literally literally have no one on this team they could start at right tackle right now and be even below average and we literally literally have no one on this team that could start at right tackle right now and B even below average and we literally literally have no one on this team they can start at right tackle right now and be even below average and we literally literally have no one on this team that could start at right tackle right now and-average.
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WTF????
 
Corrosion said:
The OL isn't near as bad as people make it out to be .... 8th in the NFL in rushing and 9th in sacks allowed.

Sure , there's a need at RT which you can fill in many ways.
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Those stats look pretty good on paper but that's not what I saw when I watched the games! And, as for the "many ways" to fill that much needed RT spot, the best way (signing Wagner) just got scratched from the board! I guess my biggest issue with the O-line, and really the team as a whole, is the lack of depth, especially quality depth. What would the Texans have done if they lost Brown for the year a week or 2 after he started playing last season? I promise you those stats would have looked a lot worse and they would never have made the playoffs. I know this is probably a bad year to look for good O-line help in the draft or FA, and it didn't help that BOB/Smith only drafted 2 O-linemen (XSF and Martin) the past 3 drafts, but the bottom line is they need to get a good RT and at least one more OG. JMO!
 
Dude you might need to check your house for twins. The first thing i thought when i saw that was "all work and no play makes jack a dull boy."

To early in the offseason mussop to be getting cabin fever.
 
Insideop said:
Those stats look pretty good on paper but that's not what I saw when I watched the games! And, as for the "many ways" to fill that much needed RT spot, the best way (signing Wagner) just got scratched from the board! I guess my biggest issue with the O-line, and really the team as a whole, is the lack of depth, especially quality depth. What would the Texans have done if they lost Brown for the year a week or 2 after he started playing last season? I promise you those stats would have looked a lot worse and they would never have made the playoffs. I know this is probably a bad year to look for good O-line help in the draft or FA, and it didn't help that BOB/Smith only drafted 2 O-linemen (XSF and Martin) the past 3 drafts, but the bottom line is they need to get a good RT and at least one more OG. JMO!
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They need to spend the $$$$ on Reiff, he's got experience at LT/RT and draft another guy like Dawkins that can play OT and OG fairly high in the draft.
 
JB said:
How does that compare to Clark/Newton last year?

link
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Reiff is an above avg pass blocker and a slightly below avg run blocker. An upgrade over Newton/Clark. He missed the last 2 games with a hip injury. CND would know more about that than me. But hip injuries scare me and that could be the reason the Lions replaced him with Wagner. If so I would pass, especially at 7 mil or so per yr.

Another guy who played well at LT for Washington after Trent Willims got suspended was Ty Nsekhe. He didn't play much but only allowed 1 sack while replacing Williams can play RT. Washington's run game didn't suffer when Nsekhe started. He should be realtively inexpensive. Huge dude 6'8 335, played at Texas St. so he would be coming home. For the $$$$ he's probably the better buy.

After checking it out the Redskins appear to have put a 2nd rd tender on him. He's worth a 2nd rd pick. IMHO But there's some risk in that Nsekhe is 31 yrs old but has been injury free. I would try to do a deal with the Redskins for a 3rd/5th for him.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Reiff is an above avg pass blocker and a slightly below avg run blocker. An upgrade over Newton/Clark. He missed the last 2 games with a hip injury. CND would know more about that than me. But hip injuries scare me and that could be the reason the Lions replaced him with Wagner. If so I would pass, especially at 7 mil or so per yr.
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I've read he's a better run blocker than pass protector
 
Insideop said:
Those stats look pretty good on paper but that's not what I saw when I watched the games! And, as for the "many ways" to fill that much needed RT spot, the best way (signing Wagner) just got scratched from the board! I guess my biggest issue with the O-line, and really the team as a whole, is the lack of depth, especially quality depth. What would the Texans have done if they lost Brown for the year a week or 2 after he started playing last season? I promise you those stats would have looked a lot worse and they would never have made the playoffs. I know this is probably a bad year to look for good O-line help in the draft or FA, and it didn't help that BOB/Smith only drafted 2 O-linemen (XSF and Martin) the past 3 drafts, but the bottom line is they need to get a good RT and at least one more OG. JMO!
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Just about any team in the league would have been in trouble losing their starting LT .... week one or week 16. You are playing What if or woulda shoulda coulda ....


Bottom line is that the OL was a better than middle of the pack unit for the season and the guy behind them was the absolute worst starting quarterback in the entire league.


Playing What If ..... What if that quarterback was simply a middle of the pack guy instead of the absolute worst in the league , How much better does that make the OL unit appear ?!


They have to address the QB spot with a competent , middle of the pack AT WORST player .... Yeah , we need to locate a competent RT .... but that's not such a difficult a task as compared to solving the QB conundrum.

Its a QB driven league , you aint got one , go get one ..... and if that aint the right one , do it again until you get it right.

I dunno about you , but I'm tired of going into each and every season with the realization that this team has NO SHOT at a Lombardi Trophy and its been that way every year since Schaub got hurt ....
 
steelbtexan said:
They wouldn't have replaced him with Wagner if that was the case.

Detroit's run game was putrid last yr.
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I just don't know... why I was asking. I do seem to recall reading that he was poor in pass pro, but he may be the best of what's available
 
The deals for Lechler and Novak are decent ones. They had both had good seasons last year and it secures two important position for relatively cheap
 
Odd how NFL's twitter is quoting overthecap.com but this is what they say:


NFL‏Verified account@NFL

2017 projected cap space for all 32 teams.



C6c8OZgU4AExymX.jpg
 
I'd go after someone like Captain Munnerlyn and sign him as a slot CB. That gives you more flexibility to experiment with Jackson at Safety and roll with Joseph and Johnson outside. Or sign a guy like Brandon Flowers on a 1-year deal.

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving guys like Kirkpatrick or Claiborne multi-year deals as they haven't proven to be consistent whatsoever. Both guys being busts their whole careers and then playing well in contract years is a huge red flag to me.
 
WolverineFan said:
I'd go after someone like Captain Munnerlyn and sign him as a slot CB. That gives you more flexibility to experiment with Jackson at Safety and roll with Joseph and Johnson outside. Or sign a guy like Brandon Flowers on a 1-year deal.

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving guys like Kirkpatrick or Claiborne multi-year deals as they haven't proven to be consistent whatsoever. Both guys being busts their whole careers and then playing well in contract years is a huge red flag to me.
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Seems like the Texans are settling for guys in FA this yr.
 
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