CretorFrigg
Fire Rick Smith
This is how I see it. I think he'll be a very great and productive #2 receiver, much like Anquan Boldin. He can even take over the #1 spot, but I don't believe he will be the next Megatron or AJ.
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1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans
- Thread starter AcresHomesTexan
- Start date
This is how I see it. I think he'll be a very great and productive #2 receiver, much like Anquan Boldin. He can even take over the #1 spot, but I don't believe he will be the next Megatron or AJ.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
^This. 76T is just doing his due diligence. He puts a lot of time into developing his opinions on players. No need to attack him. He has no ulterior motives. He's just voicing his opinion backed by film study.
You'll recall not many were in his corner when he took a more unpopular stance -- that Kareem Jackson was much better than most thought. Then 2012 happened.
My problem with taking the Vikings deal is: Patterson, Hopkins, Hunter, and Woods are off the board. I think Hopkins was the clear choice for this team at this time. I love so much of what he does. What we know is the guy will work to maximize his potential. That's big, because there are some hugely physically gifted NFL WRs who just disappoint.
He'll never be AJ Green, but he could be at the top of #2s with upside.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
And no one thought that Steve Largent would be an 8x All Pro selection.
My point? Let the guy play a down in the NFL before all these self-indulgent predictions of who this guy can or can not be.
My point? Let the guy play a down in the NFL before all these self-indulgent predictions of who this guy can or can not be.
Fred
Veteran
You throw this in every 10 posts or so, in between pointing out that every pass he has ever caught was on a fluke play. This one was a bubble screen, that one was a broken play, all his good games were against a cornerback who was a 7 year old girl with one leg. But its good that you don't dislike him!
As others have pointed out the WRs started coming off the board pretty fast. Trade down a few spots and you looking at Allen and Patton - who you could get by trading down from the 2nd round pick.
I don't know anything first hand. I don't watch tape, I just read what other people say and get a concensus type feel. The concensus seems to be the Tenn guys have higher upside but that Hopkins is more of a sure thing. Even if the only passes he ever caught were when he got away with PI against a one-legged girl with hemophilia.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
If u look at the top 20 wrs in the nfl,none of them had as slow of a 20 yd shuttle as hopkins. Even a so called slow guy like boldin ran a 4.13 shuttle. That's why he's been getting open with that 4.7 40. A slow shuttle=inability to sfift weight and create seperation. Devier posey last year was a 4.12 shuttle guy. When u watch clemson, boyd either threw hopkins open most times or it was from a broken play by boyd.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Maybe you should watch Clemson. It doesn't sound like you have at all.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Watched clemson a lot. Boyd threw that guy open a lot. Not to mention the broken plays boyd made with his feet to buy time.
As others have pointed out the WRs started coming off the board pretty fast. Trade down a few spots and you looking at Allen and Patton - who you could get by trading down from the 2nd round pick.
I don't know anything first hand. I don't watch tape, I just read what other people say and get a concensus type feel. The concensus seems to be the Tenn guys have higher upside but that Hopkins is more of a sure thing. Even if the only passes he ever caught were when he got away with PI against a one-legged girl with hemophilia.
27.......
We got Hopkins at 27. The only WR off the board was Tavon Austin.
What do we say about QBs when only one goes in the first round?
What do we say about the RB class when none of them go in the first round?
How does that apply to WRs who were passed by 26 other teams?
It's not a definite that Hopkins won't amount to much, or that none of the 2013 running backs will be all-pros, that's not what I'm saying. He's going to have flaws
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
So, your saying that either Boyd threw him open or he was open due to Boyd keeping the play alive on every single reception? That's exactly what you said.
You can watch a highlight film and completely dismantle that argument. You can watch 1 full Clemson game and laugh at that argument.
Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. I guess some people just don't know wtf they are watching.
You can watch a highlight film and completely dismantle that argument. You can watch 1 full Clemson game and laugh at that argument.
Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. I guess some people just don't know wtf they are watching.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I didn't say all,but he caught a lot bubble screens. Also he didn't create a lot of seperation when he was locked up in man. So boyd would throw him open which is something schaub doesn't do. He also benefitted from that quirky offense and boyd extending plays with his feet.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
You said that Boyd throws him open most times OR it was a broken play by Boyd.
I can quote it again for you if you'd like.
Also, he caught alot of bubble screens? What are you talking about???
Link
Clearly, your wrong.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Hopkins sucks as a first round draft choice!!!
Signed,
Those that criticized Duane Brown as a Tackle being such a reach
CHEESE AND RICE People.......... Can the guy play a game in the NFL before you self-proclaimed experts prove you're expertice?
Apparently not!!! You people be need to be proud of yourselves.... Which one of you jabronis will actually fess up when and if he's good!!!
HAVE BALLS.............
Call your shot NOW!!!
Signed,
Those that criticized Duane Brown as a Tackle being such a reach
CHEESE AND RICE People.......... Can the guy play a game in the NFL before you self-proclaimed experts prove you're expertice?
Apparently not!!! You people be need to be proud of yourselves.... Which one of you jabronis will actually fess up when and if he's good!!!
HAVE BALLS.............
Call your shot NOW!!!
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
This. No need to attack 76. He puts time into what he's doing, and he's not some Titans fan in disguise to attack us. IMO some people are just overreacting because 76 is not all aboard on the 1st round pick train and we're afraid he's right. The fact is, Hopkins is yet to play a single down in the NFL. And until he does, we'll never know exactly what he'll be for us. He could meet, exceed, or disappoint our expectations - but we won't know until August and September.
I don't agree with him on Hopkins, I think he fits nicely into our offense - but there's no need to attack 76.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Pretty much agree 100% with this, but it does come off a bit overly negative when the posts are all back to back like that. I think some of the concerns are legitimate, but I think there is plenty of great film on Hopkins to feel good about this pick.
76 does have some positive posts about Hopkins on record, but they aren't nearly as in depth and they were before the draft if I remember correctly.
I haven't really seen any attacks on 76. I've seen people disagree with his opinion on Hopkins and state that they think his opinion is slanted because he wanted someone else going into the draft. I have yet to see anything out of line said to anyone in this thread. I have a lot of respect for the time he puts into film study because Lord knows I don't wanna do it.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Yup. And everybody is right on occasion and wrong on occasion, so there is no way to say he is wrong in his opinion.
I remember when I had DeAndre McDaniel as my #1 safety and he didn't even get drafted. He signed an UDFA contract, but didn't stick. It's all opinion unless someone states something factually or statistically wrong. I only watch games as they happen, albeit alot of them, but I don't have the time or patience to do film study like 76 does. There's always props from me on that.
Hopkins is going to be a very nice addition to this offense. The routes we are going to ask him to run fit his skill set very nicely. He catches the ball well on traffic, has good body control to adjust to make difficult catches, has good speed, he's tough, gritty, and he plays with a lot of passion.
Of course he's going to have some rough moments. Of course he's not going to come in and be the best rookie wr ever. Yes he has some faults.
But despite all that I'm excited about him and I believe he's going to help the team immediately.
Of course he's going to have some rough moments. Of course he's not going to come in and be the best rookie wr ever. Yes he has some faults.
But despite all that I'm excited about him and I believe he's going to help the team immediately.
For me, the key things are as followed:
You have about 6-1/2 years to build a team, or do you guys want to give your HC more time? Be up front about it.
Each year, you only have one first round pick unless your GM is so good he sold other teams a bill of goods, trading a third for next year first.
On a few occasion, some team may be willing to give your their future first for this year high second to mid second rounder.
Basically, you need to use your first round picks on the most important positions of your team.
A LT, a QB, a number one receiver, for example.
And maybe a RB (if you definitely wants to build a run first team) or maybe a TE (if your team place TE at a premium), or perhaps a Center (if you think he's really really good).
On defense, you may choose to go with a monster interior linman, an edge rusher, a big time Inside LB, a number one CB, or a great safety.
How many positions that are named already?
More than 7.
If you use a first round pick on a number two receiver, you're failing your team.
We have to evaluate Hopkins as the number one receiver in a couple of years.
The bar has to be set high.
It wasn't his fault that he got drafted in the first, but it is what it is.
You have about 6-1/2 years to build a team, or do you guys want to give your HC more time? Be up front about it.
Each year, you only have one first round pick unless your GM is so good he sold other teams a bill of goods, trading a third for next year first.
On a few occasion, some team may be willing to give your their future first for this year high second to mid second rounder.
Basically, you need to use your first round picks on the most important positions of your team.
A LT, a QB, a number one receiver, for example.
And maybe a RB (if you definitely wants to build a run first team) or maybe a TE (if your team place TE at a premium), or perhaps a Center (if you think he's really really good).
On defense, you may choose to go with a monster interior linman, an edge rusher, a big time Inside LB, a number one CB, or a great safety.
How many positions that are named already?
More than 7.
If you use a first round pick on a number two receiver, you're failing your team.
We have to evaluate Hopkins as the number one receiver in a couple of years.
The bar has to be set high.
It wasn't his fault that he got drafted in the first, but it is what it is.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There is your logic fail.
Fred
Veteran
I meant starting with the Texans pick WRs started off the boards...
18 picks in a row, no WRs (9-26)
Then in a space of 15 picks:
27 Hopkins
29 Patterson
34 Hunter
41 Woods
Then another 17 picks in a no WRs (42-58 -> which carries you to after the Texans 2nd round pick).
So the point being if you traded back from 27 to 42 or 35, you would have lost a lot on picking the WR you wanted.
The argument "WRs who were passed by 26 other teams" is inherently self-defeating. Anyone at any position picked #27 was passed over 26 times. That will lead you to: "J.J. Watt can't be any good - 10 teams passed over him. Blaine Gabbert is clearly better than Watt - he was picked ahead of him." And I don't think you want to go there.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
U say that,but who uses a 1st rd pick on a wr who won't be the #1 guy? Again, more than the 40yd sprint,the 20 yd short shuttle counts a lot for me. Through research, there haven't been a good wr perform as slow as hopkins in that category. The shuttles represent quickness out the break to create seperation. As a wr, unless you're a 4.3 guy, its gonna be hard to get away from press man.
Fred
Veteran
If only your first round picks contribute, you're failing your team. "Number two" receiver means starter. And seriously - all this "he can never be a number one receiver" stuff: he will never be Megatron or Andre but there aren't 32 of them in the league. If you pick a 10 year starter who becomes only the 16th best receiver in the NFL with the #27 pick that is pretty good. If you pick a number one receiver like Charles Rogers with the #2 pick, or Troy Williamson with the #7 pick then you are failing your team.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Reggie wayne,dez bryant,hakeem nicks,kenny brit were all drafted late 1st correct?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I totally and completely disagree with this thinking.
You want your 1st round picks to be starters.
A #2 WR is a starter.
You want your 1st round picks to build strengths.
IF Hopkins steps in and starts and upgrades the production we've gotten at the #2 WR spot, then it's a victory because it takes our WR corps which is questionable and takes a step into building it into a strength of our team.
Fred
Veteran
Yes, all guys who are solid #2 receivers - forced into #1 if you don't have a real #1. Like Hopkins may be when Andre retires.
My mind is blown by some of the thinking in this thread. Bill had it right when he said let the guy play. Who in the hell thought a lot of receivers would go on to be #1 receivers that weren't highly drafted?
Obviously he won't be a #1 right now, but he doesn't need to be. There's a long list of receivers who were drafted outside of the top 10 that went on to be primary receivers later in their career. When they were drafted I'm sure some "gurus" projected them to be no better than number 2 quality. Its stupid right now to say what his ceiling is before he even throws on a Texans practice jersey.
Obviously he won't be a #1 right now, but he doesn't need to be. There's a long list of receivers who were drafted outside of the top 10 that went on to be primary receivers later in their career. When they were drafted I'm sure some "gurus" projected them to be no better than number 2 quality. Its stupid right now to say what his ceiling is before he even throws on a Texans practice jersey.
So you expected Hopkins to be a number one receiver?
Or do you mean that you don't mind spending a first round pick on a number two?
So the Colts were stupid for drafting Reggie Wayne? Falcons stupid for drafting Julio Jones? C'mon 76 you're seriously bugging on some of the stuff you're saying here.
It is people (teams and fans alike) like to evaluate players.
You have to make some type of projections.
BTW, in the college football forum, there was a thread about how the Tex as might take a receiver in the first.
There were a few top five lists from the "experts", none of them had Hopkins' name on it.
My response to those list is that there's no guarantee that those guys will have a better career than some others whose names were not on those lists.
Basically, I saw that the players have a little quirt here and there.
Some are better than others in certain facets; ie. I was saying that those guys may not have a better career than other guys including Hopkins.
Basically, I saw a bunch of second rounders, with only a few borderline first rounders; there wasn't a sure thing.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
1st Round WRs in the 20-32 range
2012 --
Kendall Wright, Titans -- A #2 receiver
AJ Jenkins, 49ers -- Expected to be a #2 but was only active for 3 games
2011 --
Jonathon Baldwin, Chiefs -- A #2 receiver behind Bowe
2010 --
Demaryius Thomas, Broncos -- #1/#2 receiver depending on what they planned on doing.
Dez Bryant, Cowboys -- #1 receiver but with high bust potential and they already had Miles Austin
2009 --
Percy Harvin, Vikings -- A future #1
Hakeem Nicks, Giants -- A no pressure, Future #1 with Smith and Manningham already on board, could end up as a #2 without a problem
2008 --
None.
2007 --
Dwayne Bowe, Chiefs -- A #1
Robert Meachem, Saints -- A hopeful #1 that busted
Craig Davis, Chargers -- A #2 with Vincent Jackson at #1
Anthony Gonzalez, Colts -- A future #2 with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison still on board
2006 --
Santonio Holmes, Steelers -- A #2/#1 guy with Hines Ward already on board
2005 --
Matt Jones, Jags -- Who knows what the Jags were thinking here. A developmental receiver.
Mark Clayton, Ravens -- A future #1 to take over for Derrick Mason
Roddy White, Falcons -- A future #1/#2 behind Finneran and Michael Jenkins
Using a late first round pick on a guy who's a #2 receiver doesn't appear to be all that strange or unusual. Like I said in another post, don't look at it like #1 and #2, look at it like you've got 2 starting wideout positions to fill. So get the best guys you can.
I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.
I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I'm not Cak but...
I don't mind spending a 1st round draft choice on a #2 receiver.
I wouldn't even mind spending a 1st round draft choice on a slot receiver, if it was the right slot receiver.
I just want my first rounders to be starters.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
And Anthony Gonzalez?
Its the draft my friend. There isn't a sure thing anytime you pick someone. And to clear it up I'm don't mind anyone evaluating. Where it gets silly though is proclaiming that a guy has a limited ceiling based on where he's drafted and the role that he'll initially play as some have done. Your opinion of him is completely fine and I have no problem with it. Again, I respect the time you've put into scouting him. I just disagree with your assessment of him.
I can see a spread team wanting to have two very good receivers on their team.
These teams likely don't draft a RB in the first round, or maybe they don't take a TE in the first; or maybe they just take one between those two positions.
Some team wants to win with offense; like the Colts.
When was the last time they have a good defense?
These teams likely don't draft a RB in the first round, or maybe they don't take a TE in the first; or maybe they just take one between those two positions.
Some team wants to win with offense; like the Colts.
When was the last time they have a good defense?
Reggie Wayne was the number 2 option the entire time Harrison was still playing. Well except for maybe his last year. And I hate to break it to you but Roddy White is still the number 1 option in Atlanta.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
This doesn't make any sense at all.
Aj Jenkins was drafted in the first round last year.
Kendall wright was taken earlier than Hopkins was. Michael Floyd gonna take the number one spot from fitz? Who the heck is John Baldwin? Is Jeremy maclin the #1 over design Jackson who was taken in the 2nd...
Guess the saints deeply regret getting meachem.
Looking back at the drafts over the years, if you get a solid starter at the end of the first round you did good.
This thought that you have to draft a #1 there is ridiculous.
But that said, there's nothing saying Hopkins can't grow into a 1 after Andre is retired.
Kendall wright was taken earlier than Hopkins was. Michael Floyd gonna take the number one spot from fitz? Who the heck is John Baldwin? Is Jeremy maclin the #1 over design Jackson who was taken in the 2nd...
Guess the saints deeply regret getting meachem.
Looking back at the drafts over the years, if you get a solid starter at the end of the first round you did good.
This thought that you have to draft a #1 there is ridiculous.
But that said, there's nothing saying Hopkins can't grow into a 1 after Andre is retired.
Ok, well then roddy white is the number 2.
Like I said, I can't comment on the Wayne's situation; I'm just not familiar with the Colts back then.
With the Falcons, they have had a solid defense for a while.
It looks like they were in win-mode at the time, so they spent a boat load to get Jones.
Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?
If you don't mind taking a number two receiver with a first round pick, it's fine with me. It's just not my preference.
I like to have a guy with good potential to become a number one or as good as a number one on other teams with my first round pick.
And I'm saying that your assertion that Hopkins can't be a number 1 is silly. Unless you're hitting on every prospect that you study then there's no way you can say with certainty that he can't or won't be a number 1.
So you wouldn't spend a #1 on Hines Ward?
Jeremy maclin?
We are talking pick 27 here. Not a top ten pick. 5 picks later would you be ok with it?
Jones was picked #6 overall.
You guys are throwing out too many names without even looking deeply into those situations first.
For example, the Saints are a spread team; and like I said, a team like that can use two good receivers.
Wright led the Titans in catch as a rookie with 18 more than Washington and 19 more than Britt. Obviously, they liked to use him in the short game a lot (and he was out for one game as well).
Was A J Jenkins a good move for the Niners?
Would the Cardinals be better off drafting a QB instead?
Same thing with the Chiefs.
The only time in his 4-yr career when Maclin had fewer catches than D Jackson was his rookie year.
Can I see some of these articles? I just went through a few years of the combine and checked out the top wr performers in the 20 yd short shuttle. None of the names impressed me very much. I then looked at most positions and I didn't see many impressive guys. Austin Pettis with a 3.88, Shiloh Keo with a 3.90, Jeff Maehl with a 3.94, Mike Mohamed with a 4.00, Terrence Toliver with a 4.03, Antwaun Molden with a 4.14, and on and on and on. What number do guys HAVE to hit in this drill? I love what Hopkins brings. He's got very long arms, huge hands, a 36 inch vertical. He is a stud. The only thing I cannot find is his 3-cone drill number.