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Why is Vick so overrated?

the wonger need food

the wonger need food

All Pro
I have my theories but would like to hear from you guys. I understand that he is exciting to watch in the open field but he gets sacked a lot and statistically he is below average. The Falcons defense is the biggest reason for their success this year. He makes the Pro Bowl and signs the biggest contract in football... so what is the fascination with this guy?
 
I think this goes along the lines of watching a Barry Sanders. At this point in his career Vick is not a great, heck not even a good QB in terms of the prototypical, traditional QB. He is some sort of an athletic freak, with these immeasurable skills, in the highest profile position. Legs and vision of a franchise RB with a total cannon for an arm, getting Favre-like velocity on his passes. If he were actually able to make better decisions, read defenses better, and manage the game fully, a lot seem to think his talent level is limitless. I think everyone is just wowed by his amazing physical feats. As far as pure athletes go, he is incredible and thats what everyone is hung up on. I personally dont think he is a top 20 QB in this league but his athletic skills are hard to ignore.
 
When it comes to Vick getting sacked...The Falcons have a below-average o-line,not as bad as the Texans,but its pretty weak. Vick is still young,so I think he'll be a good traditional QB in the years to come. You can't deny his speed and quickness when he's moving around.
 
Yes, he's a tremendously talented running back who also has an excellent arm. Elway was a tremendously talented passer who was also an excellent runner. But Vick athletic abiliy is >. He's healthy and the Falcons are in the playoffs again like year before last. Can't argue with success.
 
I don't know if he's overrated but to me he's sort of a football freak. The guy that can outjuke the best defender on the field and he can throw the ball a mile. Whether it gets to the receiver is a different matter but the guy is a specimen. And I guess Atlanta is going to ride on his back for as long as they can.
 
Guys, he's never gonna be a 4,000 yard 65% passer. So if you're waiting for that time to call him a great QB, keep waiting. His all around playmaking abilities is what makes him special. And if he wins a SB, it won't be because he threw for 4,000 yards.

The contract is a little much, but eventually he will earn it
 
the wonger need food said:
The Falcons defense is the biggest reason for their success this year. He makes the Pro Bowl and signs the biggest contract in football... so what is the fascination with this guy?
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You saw this great defense last year didn't you? oh wait, they were horrible. Believe it if you want, but vick impacts his defense as much as he impacts his offense
 
Without Vick, the Falcons were 2-10 last year. Same team was 3-1 after he returned from his injury. Yeah, it's the defense that carries that team.

His 314 passing attempts would rank at the bottom of every starting QB that has yet to miss any time due to injury/benching. That might help explain his lack of yards.

Worth $100 million? No way. But no player is. Overrated? Not even close.

Bottom line, he wins. Doesn't matter how he does it...6 points with your arm is the same as 6 with your legs.
 
Huge said:
Without Vick, the Falcons were 2-10 last year. Same team was 3-1 after he returned from his injury. Yeah, it's the defense that carries that team.

His 314 passing attempts would rank at the bottom of every starting QB that has yet to miss any time due to injury/benching. That might help explain his lack of yards.

Worth $100 million? No way. But no player is. Overrated? Not even close.

Bottom line, he wins. Doesn't matter how he does it...6 points with your arm is the same as 6 with your legs.
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fine points sir
 
Huge said:
Without Vick, the Falcons were 2-10 last year. Same team was 3-1 after he returned from his injury. Yeah, it's the defense that carries that team.
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Very well done use of sarcasm, but looking to reality the defense was so bad last year that in addition to getting rid of the head coach they got rid of the DC and went from a 3-4 to a 4-3 that better suited their personnel--helping them go from 32nd in total defense to 13th--yeah, sure the defense had nothing to do with the team's success.
 
no one was saying the defense has nothing to do with the success, that's just putting words in people's mouths. Many people will tell you scheme is overrated, you can't do it without the players, and these players were here last year
 
Youngstown Colt said:
no one was saying the defense has nothing to do with the success, that's just putting words in people's mouths.
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OK sarcasm isn't as obvious on a MB, but Huge is not going to deny the sarcasm of his comment about the defense. No words being put anywhere here. In any event Huge is more than capable of coming in and saying he didn't mean Vick isn't more of the reason for the change from last year to this than the defense. (Double negative but you get the meaning.)

Many people will tell you scheme is overrated, you can't do it without the players, and these players were here last year
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Really, who?--do they say that about players period, or players for the scheme? Funny that Atlanta and San Diego kept the same players and changed schemes and had much better results this year, whereas KC kept the same players and changed coaches to teach the same scheme and still sucks.
 
should we switch to the 4-3? I've wondered this all year. You'd have babin/sharper/wong at LB no foreman or peek/sharper/babin in passing downs, payne/walker/smith/deloach? possibly, that be an extra lineman to help w/ run and pass rush, plus our pretty good secondary. Payne isn't a 2-gap player. I think w/ another draft and our personel we'd be better to run the 4-3.
 
fresno8 said:
should we switch to the 4-3? I've wondered this all year.
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Only if you want to completely rebuild starting with getting rid of Capers & Fangio--they are 3-4 gurus so as long as they are here the Texans will be 3-4.

payne/walker/smith/deloach?
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That is four 4-3 DT's. Would probably be hell against the run but you will still be diappointed in the pass rush.

Payne isn't a 2-gap player.
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Wrong.
 
OK sarcasm isn't as obvious on a MB, but Huge is not going to deny the sarcasm of his comment about the defense. No words being put anywhere here. In any event Huge is more than capable of coming in and saying he didn't mean Vick isn't more of the reason for the change from last year to this than the defense. (Double negative but you get the meaning.)
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Yeah, I thought the sarcasm was obvious enough.

But I don't see what their 11-3 record this year with the 13th rated defense has to do with their 3-1 record after Vick's return last year with the 32nd rated defense. As I said, they were 2-10 w/o Vick, 3-1 with Vick...with the same defensive players, same defensive scheme, same coaches etc.

In '02 (Vick's first full season as a starter, 2nd season of his career), the Falcons went 9-6-1 and beat Green Bay at Lambeau in the Wild Card. Defense was rated 20th that year.

Would they be 11-3 right now w/o their improved defense? I highly doubt it. But in the watered down NFC, you never know. Do you think they'd be 11-3 w/o Vick?

How about Mora is underrated
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Agreed. I'm a big fan of Jr.
 
Huge said:
But I don't see what their 11-3 record this year with the 13th rated defense has to do with their 3-1 record after Vick's return last year with the 32nd rated defense. As I said, they were 2-10 w/o Vick, 3-1 with Vick...with the same defensive players, same defensive scheme, same coaches etc.
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All I was pointing out was the D has contributed signficantly. Vick plays this year with last year's D and Atlanta doesn't have an 11-3 record, at the same time they wouldn't be 2-10 either. As with so many football issues, it comes back to it being a team sport.
 
I gotta agree with the comment about the defense. Vick is not even a good QB but he does make things happen as a runner. That is not enough tho. The improvment on the Falcons defense and the improvement of their running game is more the cause of their success than Vick. At times Vick has lost games for the Falcons they could have won because of INT's and fumbles. He does not deserve the attention he gets. However it is good he gets it cause it saved the Falcons franchise from finacial ruin. The owner will pay Vick cause he keeps ticket sells up, not because he gives them the best chance to win.
 
All I was pointing out was the D has contributed signficantly. Vick plays this year with last year's D and Atlanta doesn't have an 11-3 record, at the same time they wouldn't be 2-10 either. As with so many football issues, it comes back to it being a team sport.
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I think we share the same point of view but to different lengths.

I gotta agree with the comment about the defense. Vick is not even a good QB but he does make things happen as a runner. That is not enough tho. The improvment on the Falcons defense and the improvement of their running game is more the cause of their success than Vick. At times Vick has lost games for the Falcons they could have won because of INT's and fumbles. He does not deserve the attention he gets. However it is good he gets it cause it saved the Falcons franchise from finacial ruin. The owner will pay Vick cause he keeps ticket sells up, not because he gives them the best chance to win.
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Has there ever been a QB that hasn't cost his team a win here or there because of an untimely turnover? Heck, Brett Favre tossed 2 INTs in the redzone last week in their loss to Jacksonville. Didn't Tom Brady just toss 4 INTs in their loss to 2-11 Miami? Isn't he a 2-time Super Bowl MVP?

As far as Vick not giving them the better chance to win...I'll simply point to the difference in their record last year w/o Vick (2-10) and with Vick (3-1) again.
 
i think that vick also gives the falcons confidence. when he is there the teams knows that they can score at any point.
 
He also sells out the georgia dome. Which is something that even the 99' team couldn't do. Quarterback is more than what you do with your arm, just as football is more than what you impact on the field.
 
Vick out today. Anybody that thinks he doesn't give them their best chance at winning believe they'll beat the Saints?
 
Huge said:
Vick out today. Anybody that thinks he doesn't give them their best chance at winning believe they'll beat the Saints?
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The team is definately better with Schaub :rofl:

But this game really showed how important Mike is
 
I follow the Falcons for a long time. But since 1998 there wasn't a lot of excitement,each Sunday an near empty Georgia Dome and almost each Monday another loss to talk about.

Vick changed that. Not alone, but he's a major reason for that: energizing the fans, filling the stands and winning games!, 66 winning percentage, two playoff berths in three years. Eden on Earth for Falcon Fans.

I know that he's a better RB with a cannon of an arm, that his accuracy and vision are troublesome yet. But he's only 24 years old.

Is he overrated? Hell, no. I've seen him converting 3 & 20+ too often, getting the needed Points somehow. I was surprised that many times, that he could evade/run over the defense in situations, where the Falcons of the past had folded or simply failed. Although i don't admire him I know his worth.

Worth, that means the money.

Should anyone get that kind of deal?: NO.

Vick voided the last two years of his contract. Could the Falcons afford to loose him after this season or at all, like Brett Favre many years ago?

Even more: NO.

They simply had no choice.
 
This may have already been said but I'm too lazy to read everyone's posts. Vick is not overrated as a player and winner, and he isn't overrated as a passer either. No one has called him a good passer or anything better. People have always said he needs to improve. However, as an athlete he is not overrated and paid too much. He keeps Atlanta in the playoffs...they need to keep him some how...
 
It's simple really. Just do some research on the Falcon's record since Vick has been in the league and not played vs their record since he's been in the league and he has played.

How anybody will argue this is really beyond my capability to understand.

Atlanta just gave him a $100 million contract. Does anybody else believe the Falcons' organization won't make twice that much over the span of that contract because of Vick?
 
Overrated as an athlete = no
Overrated as a qb = yes

He is basically like having a 1k yard back lined up taking the snap, but one who can throw as well. The threat of the run is what makes him so good, since the D has to contain him with the De's...or a LB spy.... game planning around one player is just asking to lose as most defenses find out. IF you can force him to sit in the pocket and throw all day, he really isn't anything all that special. Cannon for an arm, but erratic.....kind of like Jeff George except Vick doesn't seem like a head case.
 
Vick is a winner, plain and simple. His play is erratic at times, but he is a gamer. I'd like to see what he could do if he actually had a stud WR. I like the way Mora coaches too. Vick is worth every penny they are going to pay him.
 
He doesn't take full advantage of them. In the preseason, then the last two games with Schaub, Price & Finneran looked REALLY good. Their third WR, Jenkins maybe? looked good against the Hawks and Crumpler is a load. Vick looks to run first, and I don't think he reads coverages all that well. There is no debate that he wins games and leads the team well, but he is not a world beater QB in the purest sense of the QB position. Put a diff Qb in there though, a traditional pocket style passer, with that running game and those WR's will produce. He has a lot of talent around him on O, excellent lines on both sides of the ball and good players as a whole.
 
When you don't have you startind QB how many teams do well? Vick reminds me of Randal Cunningham, maybe a little quicker. But Cunningham sure did pay for all that running, and his success was marginal.
 
It took McNabb and Steve Young both a while to adapt to the West Coast offense. I'd like to see him mature those two guys but with still more emphasis on his impromptu runs.
 
Once Vick learns the offense, the occasions where there is no where to go with the football are the occasions where he'll have the most room to run.

The Nfl better hope he has a learning disability or he will be unstopable.
 
CrumplerFan said:
I follow the Falcons for a long time. But since 1998 there wasn't a lot of excitement,each Sunday an near empty Georgia Dome and almost each Monday another loss to talk about.

Vick changed that. Not alone, but he's a major reason for that: energizing the fans, filling the stands and winning games!, 66 winning percentage, two playoff berths in three years. Eden on Earth for Falcon Fans.
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Give Art Blank a HUGE amount of the credit too. He slashed ticket prices, brought back tailgating, and hired quality football people both on and off the field. Probably one of, if not the best owner in the league IMO.
 
Infatuation with Vick is no passing fancy

The best thing about this Super Bowl is that Michael Vick won't be in it. Seriously, you'd think Michael put the Vick in victory the way people gush about him. The cover of last week's Sporting News kind of said it all. It had a picture of him, ball tucked under his arm, leaping over a fallen St. Louis Ram.

"THE NEXT HURDLE," the headline read. "Michael Vick leads the Falcons into Philly."

THE NEXT HURDLE. That's the problem I have with Vick — and with the way many perceive him. I mean, when exactly did quarterbacking turn into the decathlon? Funny, but I don't remember Renaldo Nehemiah leading the 49ers to any titles; Joe Montana, I'm pretty sure, did that. Renaldo was just somebody who was told, occasionally, to "go long."...

...If all you really care about, Michael, is making the "SportsCenter" Top 10 or selling the most jerseys, then keep doing what you're doing. But if you want to be famous for something other than making hearts flutter, you need to take off the track shoes, get out on the practice field and see whether you can become more than just a passing passer.

Donovan McNabb did it — and look where he is now. McNabb's rushing total dropped to a career-low 220 yards this season ... while his completion percentage soared to a career-high 64. It can be done. That is, if you're not hung up on "reinventing" the quarterback position.

Vick ain't a kid anymore. Next season will be his fifth. But in many respects, he's still the same player he was when he came into the league. He's still a Highlight Reel Hero, the kind of guy who can nail the quadruple axel but still hasn't mastered the figure eight.
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http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050127-120525-9366r.htm
 
True, but how many teams in the NFL would beat the Eagles when their D is playing that well? Maybe the Steelers and Patriots, that's it...

If memory serves me right, didn't Vick lead a team with a substantially worse D, still using the 34 scheme, into the playoffs?

Bottom line is if you place Vick on any subpar team, say the Cardinals, they'd be a playoff contender...
 
Vick isn't so great if you force him to pass, he may have a great TE in Crumpler, but other than that you force him to pass and he seems inaccuarate, and just outa wack, thats how you beat him, force him to pass to beat you; you can get turnovers that way. :hairpull:
 
On a side note, is Vick completly uncoachable or are the coaches treating him with such kidd gloves they aren't really coaching him? When he runs he one hands the ball way away from his body. I can't believe every coach since peewee football hasn't been harping on that and getting it fixed. It is horrible and makes it a miracle he didn't cough up the ball more than 16 times this year.
 
He's not too overrated. His team was one of the last 4 teams standing which means he's doing something right. I haven't watched the Falcons much but enough to know he's a special player and he absolutely makes that team go. When he's on they do very well.
 
Vick is the greatest athelete the QB position has ever seen. As a comparison look at Carlos Beltran. He could help his team in so many ways. He could run, hit ,hit for power, yada yada yada.
I like Carr but if Vick and he were in the same draft I'd take Vick. He would have had plenty of chances to run.
 
Let me get this straight. Vick is about 25 or 26 years or age. A four year NFL vet whom was a full time starter for two (yes, T-W-O years). Let's see, starting the first full year he not only led the Falcons to the playoffs but defeated the Pack (in Green Bay, a place where "nobody beats Farve in the bitter cold"). Second season he leads the team to the NFC title game. I don't know about you guys, Vick may not be the "prototypical drop back passer" (and that might not entirely be his fault due to what he has to work with, which is less than nothing offensively) but one thing you can never question about him is he gets the win by any means necessary. And isn't that what it is all about? Overrated no way. I'd say what he has accomplished in two full years as a starter is extremely underrated.
 
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