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O-Line, Still not addressing the problem!

War_Eagle

War_Eagle

Practice Squad
It is the same old song and dance again. There were alot of good free agent offensive lineman available and the Texans were asleep at the wheel again! This team NEEDS O-lineman it doesn't matter if they take Reggie Bush with the first pick, he will be a BUST this year behind this line! It doesn't take an engineer to figure out the problem year in and year out, THE O-LINE STINKS. ESPN hit it right on the head with the commercial they had a year or so ago, about what does your team need in the drat and there stood Carr with no line at all in front of him against the Cowboys. That hits home every year. This is pathetic.:brickwall
 
This is a good sign. By not getting anyone in the offseason, besides the very good center we're going after, we're saying that we are waiting for the big paydays to pass and draft OLmen and sign some vets later.
 
It hasn't occured to you that by then the better players have signed with other teams? Then were left with the hand me downs that couldn't make it with anoither team.....If they want to be a top notch organization then they need to pick up top notch players and not wait for the scraps.........
 
I think we are doing a decent job. We bring in Flanagan and Ashworth and ill be pretty stocked about the upgrades to the line. Ashworth is the quick mobile O-lineman that Kubiack likes. Flannagan is a former Sherman guy.

If we sign these two guys who we are targeting, and have brought in for visits. Our line will be much upgraded. Albiet we will not have the most crucial position in LT, all other spots on the line will be quite solid with Mckinney playing guard, Flannangan at center. Pitts at the other guard and Ashworth at tackle. We will probably move Pitts back to LT and let weigart and wade fight for the last guard spot.

I think we are going to spend a first day pick on the O-line too. probably our second rounder. We pick up a left tackle prospect there and our line could be solid. The oldest starter flannagan would have young hodgon learning behind him.

But its all on getting the players we have targeted. Flannagan and Ashworth.
 
War_Eagle said:
This team NEEDS O-lineman it doesn't matter if they take Reggie Bush with the first pick, he will be a BUST this year behind this line!
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Pass protection and run-blocking are two totally different things.
 
War_Eagle said:
It is the same old song and dance again. There were alot of good free agent offensive lineman available and the Texans were asleep at the wheel again! This team NEEDS O-lineman it doesn't matter if they take Reggie Bush with the first pick, he will be a BUST this year behind this line! It doesn't take an engineer to figure out the problem year in and year out, THE O-LINE STINKS. ESPN hit it right on the head with the commercial they had a year or so ago, about what does your team need in the drat and there stood Carr with no line at all in front of him against the Cowboys. That hits home every year. This is pathetic.:brickwall
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Who are the all-pro linemen you are wanting the Texans to target? I'm not saying the line play does need improving. There are still linemen that haven't signed and adding a couple of them is still a possibility. Bentley was never going to come to Houston so if that's the main guy you are thinking of you can't place the blame on the Texans doorstep.
 
War_Eagle said:
It hasn't occured to you that by then the better players have signed with other teams? Then were left with the hand me downs that couldn't make it with anoither team.....If they want to be a top notch organization then they need to pick up top notch players and not wait for the scraps.........
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The closer we are to the start of free agency, the more likely it will be that we overpay for a FA. Besides, there are still some guys that could be cut.
 
War_Eagle said:
This team NEEDS O-lineman it doesn't matter if they take Reggie Bush with the first pick, he will be a BUST this year behind this line! It doesn't take an engineer to figure out the problem year in and year out, THE O-LINE STINKS.
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Yeah because the guy with lesser talent (DD) has run for a 1000+ yards, so obviously the guy with more talent (Bush) will do less with the 15th ranked rushing offense from last year (from ESPN.com). Stop watching commercials and pay more attention to your team.
 
War_Eagle said:
It is the same old song and dance again. There were alot of good free agent offensive lineman available and the Texans were asleep at the wheel again! This team NEEDS O-lineman it doesn't matter if they take Reggie Bush with the first pick, he will be a BUST this year behind this line! It doesn't take an engineer to figure out the problem year in and year out, THE O-LINE STINKS. ESPN hit it right on the head with the commercial they had a year or so ago, about what does your team need in the drat and there stood Carr with no line at all in front of him against the Cowboys. That hits home every year. This is pathetic.:brickwall
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AMEN

I have said this so many times over the last 5 months. I think Kubiak is aware of this fact and he has a method to his madness.
D'Brickshaw Fergusen is looking pretty good. If we get GB's Center then this seems to be the next logical step.
We do not need a high dollar RB from USC. Kubiak is a Offensive Coordinator and a successsfull one at that. Capers never had a clue and he failed to suround himself with a good OC for four years and that is why he is gone.


A real every down TE would be a big help too.:homer:
 
TEXANS84 said:
Pass protection and run-blocking are two totally different things.
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Don't you ever get tired of saying that. I have to constantly remind people that on the jags board and now we have to do it here. :brickwall
 
TexanBacker93 said:
Who are the all-pro linemen you are wanting the Texans to target? I'm not saying the line play does need improving. There are still linemen that haven't signed and adding a couple of them is still a possibility. Bentley was never going to come to Houston so if that's the main guy you are thinking of you can't place the blame on the Texans doorstep.
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Guard Toniu Fonoti,
Tackle, L.j. Shelton
Center, Kevin Mawae
Center, Justin Hartwig
Tackle, Stocker McDougal
Tackle, Mike Williams
Guard, Jason Whittle
Tackle, Jason Fabini
Guard, Juaquin Gonzalez
And possibly a couple others if they don't resign with there currant team
 
And as far as run bloking and pass protection being two different things they are, BUT if you can't throw, teams will stack the line of scrimmage and beat your running game to death, So they are connected as far as having a complete and balanced team.
 
Hey Seth McKinney is out there we could sign him to compete at C. He fits the system and has started in Miami for a year or two now. Not sure we want another McKinney on the line, but he is pretty talented. War_Eagle just looking at your list other than Hartwig the rest of the guys dont really fit our system. Juaquin Gonzalez is from the U and can play a little Tackle in a pinch though. Not overly anxious for the Texans to go hard in FA. Yeah the OL has suffered, but right now I would think our line just penciled in looks something like this
LT Chester Pitts-LG Steve McKinney- C Drew Hogdon-RG Fread Weary-RT Zach Weigert.

To me that is a pretty solid line that could use upgrades at C and RG. Also would need to bring in a RT later in the draft to be mentored by Weigert for a year.
 
War_Eagle said:
Guard Toniu Fonoti,
Tackle, L.j. Shelton
Center, Kevin Mawae
Center, Justin Hartwig
Tackle, Stocker McDougal
Tackle, Mike Williams
Guard, Jason Whittle
Tackle, Jason Fabini
Guard, Juaquin Gonzalez
And possibly a couple others if they don't resign with there currant team
Click to expand...

if this is a list of current players still available ..then I believe Fabini,williams (jacksonville) and Mawae .. are gone already

if this was a list of people we should have hit earlier in FA..then forgive me for not reading this right
 
War_Eagle said:
And as far as run bloking and pass protection being two different things they are, BUT if you can't throw, teams will stack the line of scrimmage and beat your running game to death, So they are connected as far as having a complete and balanced team.
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Despite being a 4th round pick with below avg. speed DD has come in and put up two 1000 yard seasons and would of put up a third if he could just stay healthy and we are about to install Denver's running scheme. I really don't think Bush or the Texans are going to have a problem running the ball.
 
LCROD said:
Yeah because the guy with lesser talent (DD) has run for a 1000+ yards, so obviously the guy with more talent (Bush) will do less with the 15th ranked rushing offense from last year (from ESPN.com). Stop watching commercials and pay more attention to your team.
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Making a point! I do pay attention to my team, thats the problem, the team doesn't pay attention to itself. Everything begins up front. You honestly think that this team will be saved by Reggie Bush alone? Ashworth and Flanagan are not a sure thing.
 
Wolf said:
if this is a list of current players still available ..then I believe Fabini,williams (jacksonville) and Mawae .. are gone already

if this was a list of people we should have hit earlier in FA..then forgive me for not reading this right
Click to expand...
No these were all FA at the beginning and most have already signed with other teams
 
War_Eagle said:
Ashworth and Flanagan are not a sure thing.
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True they are not sure things, but they are still upgrades to what we currently have on the roster. the "sure things" went for 7 years 49 million (Hutchinson) and 6 years 36 million (Bently) and neither was a left tackle.
 
War_Eagle said:
And as far as run bloking and pass protection being two different things they are, BUT if you can't throw, teams will stack the line of scrimmage and beat your running game to death, So they are connected as far as having a complete and balanced team.
Click to expand...

Well seeing as our passing game was basically a 2 step drop and throw a screen pass, you figure teams would have stacked the line of scrimmage last year. But, Davis, Morency, and Wells combined for 1485 yards last year. Not too bad when you have 8 man fronts.

As for getting an O-lineman, I made the same complaint a couple of days ago. My thread is probably on the 2nd page somewhere. We are looking at Tom Ashworth and Mike Flanagan. Ashworth would provide better depth than we've ever had and Flanagan would be an immediate upgrade over anyone else, assuming he stays healthy. We aren't going to remake the entire offensive line in one offseason. McKinney, Pitts, and Wade or Weigert will probably all be starters next year.
 
TexanSam said:
Well seeing as our passing game was basically a 2 step drop and throw a screen pass, you figure teams would have stacked the line of scrimmage last year. But, Davis, Morency, and Wells combined for 1485 yards last year. Not too bad when you have 8 man fronts.

As for getting an O-lineman, I made the same complaint a couple of days ago. My thread is probably on the 2nd page somewhere. We are looking at Tom Ashworth and Mike Flanagan. Ashworth would provide better depth than we've ever had and Flanagan would be an immediate upgrade over anyone else, assuming he stays healthy. We aren't going to remake the entire offensive line in one offseason. McKinney, Pitts, and Wade or Weigert will probably all be starters next year.
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Even if we don't sign any big name FA O-linemen we have Mike sherman one of the greatest O-Line coaches so i guess it cant get any worse than last year :ok:
 
Mathis13 said:
Even if we don't sign any big name FA O-linemen we have Mike sherman one of the greatest O-Line coaches so i guess it cant get any worse than last year :ok:
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With Sherman in place even Mr. B might even think about coming out of retirement.
 
Carr Bomb said:
Can we please wait until FA and the draft has passed before we blast the team for moves not made.
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You might as well ask a 2-year old to sit down and be quiet for a few hours. It just won't happen.
 
Carr Bomb said:
Don't you ever get tired of saying that. I have to constantly remind people that on the jags board and now we have to do it here. :brickwall
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If I had a dollar for everytime I've said that, I'd be a rich man.
 
I still think an OT/OG should be our second round pick. If the OT/OG pool is gone, I think we should pick either a DB (I do not think this year's draft is that deep in DBs) or a TE (just because I think there is good talent at this pos. this year).

OL tales longer to develop. CB can be addressed in other ways. FS & SS upgrades/depth... should be easily addressed in FA, not needing to spend draft choice.
 
Well, nobody is complaining anymore about not signing linemen anymore. We've picked up 2 and still have the draft. Yup, this looks like a very solid off-season.
 
War_Eagle said:
It is the same old song and dance again. There were alot of good free agent offensive lineman available and the Texans were asleep at the wheel again! This team NEEDS O-lineman it doesn't matter if they take Reggie Bush with the first pick, he will be a BUST this year behind this line! It doesn't take an engineer to figure out the problem year in and year out, THE O-LINE STINKS. ESPN hit it right on the head with the commercial they had a year or so ago, about what does your team need in the drat and there stood Carr with no line at all in front of him against the Cowboys. That hits home every year. This is pathetic.:brickwall
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Many of these folks are simply living in Dreamland like they did last year, talking about 11 wins and making the playoffs. Same song, same tune this year. They think that everything will be just fine if the Texans perform a Chinese fire drill in the OL and then Kubiak waves his hands, shouts, "Abracadabra!" and all will be right with the world as the Texans magically reduce their sacks by 60% with the same personnel, just changing their position on the field. Meanwhile, the Texans go out and grab folks like Rosenfelds, Cook and Walter and people yell, "Great offseason! We're headed to the playoffs!" Tsk, tsk. Yeah, right.
 
dat_boy_yec said:
Well, nobody is complaining anymore about not signing linemen anymore. We've picked up 2 and still have the draft. Yup, this looks like a very solid off-season.
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Yeah, right.
 
dat_boy_yec said:
Well, nobody is complaining anymore about not signing linemen anymore. We've picked up 2 and still have the draft. Yup, this looks like a very solid off-season.
Click to expand...


Weeelll, yes we picked up 2 O-line guys. One pretty darn good at a real need position, but probably not going to play for more than 2-3 years IF he stays healthy. The other guy looks like a fairly solid depth guy and while that is very important to have around, we are sorely lacking yet on the right side of the line. Weigert is good, but old and having trouble staying in the game while Wade has feet that are in cement and won't fit this scheme at all. Wand MAY wind up working ouy, but that is very much TBD at this point. Have we improved the line......probably, but how much is very much up in the air at this point IMO and the draft will not likely have much of an effect on the line until the 07 season, so probably not much this year as it usually takes a year or two for an O-line guy to get used to the NFL.
 
pearland said:
I still think an OT/OG should be our second round pick. If the OT/OG pool is gone, I think we should pick either a DB (I do not think this year's draft is that deep in DBs) or a TE (just because I think there is good talent at this pos. this year).

OL tales longer to develop. CB can be addressed in other ways. FS & SS upgrades/depth... should be easily addressed in FA, not needing to spend draft choice.
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If it takes longer to develop, then you'd better draft a whole bunch of them and get started. And throw some picks at the defense, too, because that part of the team needs a whole lot of help as well.
 
edo783 said:
Weeelll, yes we picked up 2 O-line guys. One pretty darn good at a real need position, but probably not going to play for more than 2-3 years IF he stays healthy. The other guy looks like a fairly solid depth guy and while that is very important to have around, we are sorely lacking yet on the right side of the line. Weigert is good, but old and having trouble staying in the game while Wade has feet that are in cement and won't fit this scheme at all. Wand MAY wind up working ouy, but that is very much TBD at this point. Have we improved the line......probably, but how much is very much up in the air at this point IMO and the draft will not likely have much of an effect on the line until the 07 season, so probably not much this year as it usually takes a year or two for an O-line guy to get used to the NFL.
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If you're an offensive lineman and can't start on the Texans, then you are pretty sorry.
 
Ok, let me break down our current line. We got a center in Flannagan older yes, but capable of handling the duties while Hodgdon is prepared behind him. Last season Hodgdon stepped in during his rookie season to play for a joke of an o-line scheme and did well while he was there. McKinney moved over to LG his natural position. True McKinney is no spring chicken, but he has enough gas in the tank to last while another prospect is groomed. Pitts and Wand are both capable tackles and young IF you drafted a tackle this yr. it would more than likely be for depth. Which I wouldn't be against because Wade needs to be replaced. Weigart should be able to hold it down until Weary can step in, contrary to popular belief Weary can handle the RG pos. We got another G for depth that fits the Z-scheme. So, at Center we're set. G we could use a draftee for future development, but have good players for the short term. Tackles need depth. The line has been drastically improved. The biggest improvement should come from the coaching though. Last yr. they mocked the schemes we were using on National TV and all the previous line coaches are now unemployed. We don't have the greatest line in the world but we have set a platform on which the team can build something that has been absent in this franchises history. The current line and coaching alone at the current level should not allow more than 25 sacks. With whoever we take in the draft the 2007 line should be much better. It's a progressive improvement.
 
TEXANS84 said:
Pass protection and run-blocking are two totally different things.
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i agree. if domanick davis can rush for over 4 yds per carry, then certainly bush can do the same. the zone blocking is used primarily in the run game, not in passing situations. besides, to whoever started this topic...why are you so pessimistic?! mike flanagan is pro-bowl caliber, mckinney is playing is natural LG spot now and he has been arguably the texans' most consistent o-lineman in the history of the franchise. i like zach wiegert, and chester pitts is establishing himself has top-tier among LT's. the new coaching staff alone would help the o-line considerably even without the addition of flanagan. with him, he makes the line that much better.
 
I think we all agree that the secondary is one of our main concerns going into the draft b/c no key FA additions were made other than the re-signing of a few backups. Also, do to the fact that we made so many offensive FA moves, I can't believe that we would spend our second pick on an offensive player if we pick up Bush with the 1st. That being said, I believe one of the top corners will fall to the 2nd and that we will mostly likely pick him up whether its Cromatie, Joseph, or Richard Marshall. This would add a likely starter to CB position opposite Dunta. Next, in the third I could see an OT/OG going with our 1st and a FS pickup with our second 3rd. Pat Watkins would be an amazing steal if he made it to the 3rd (got size and skill). Also, Ko Simpson looks pretty good, along with Charlie Peprah and Greg Blue. Between Blue and Peprah, I believe Peprah would be a more solid FS, blessed with good coverage skills, a leadership mentality, and a desire to lay a good hit down. Many of the other safeties available are more suited as SS, lacking in the coverage area, and Lord knows we have that already with CC and Earl. Don't get me wrong, I like those two and they may do well together this season if they beat out any competition, but as of right now and the rookie mistakes made last season, drafting a solid FS would be smart. Other defensive and OL positions could be addressed with the final picks

With the 3rd pick we would probably pick up Jonathan Scott or Daryn Colledge for the OT position and possibly look at Rob Sims, Fred Matua, or Will Allen for OG in the 5th round, Sims would most likely have to be picked up in the 3rd if we wanted him. All of these guys have great footwork and could be dominant later on down the road (and I stress COULD be).
 
Mainly all that I am stressing is that the OT/OG depth is good this year and to reach in the 2nd would be a waste. Also, this has been broughten up countless times, but Kubiac is used to picking up lineman in the later rounds so I do not see him picking one up in the 2nd
 
Last yr. they mocked the schemes we were using on National TV and all the previous line coaches are now unemployed. We don't have the greatest line in the world but we have set a platform on which the team can build something that has been absent in this franchises history. The current line and coaching alone at the current level should not allow more than 25 sacks. With whoever we take in the draft the 2007 line should be much better. It's a progressive improvement.
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A.) Who cares what the national media say? Those guys couldn't keep their jobs themselves, so how could are they? B.) Not only do the Texans not have the greatest line in the world -- it is indeed the joke of the league. But not because of what the national media says. They don't know diddly, as evidenced by the fact that two of those three guys are no longer going to be doing NFL games themselves. C.) So basically the same guys who started for the team are going to cut the amount of sacks down from 68 to 25??? Umm, pardon me for being skeptical.
 
Bobo said:
A.) Who cares what the national media say? Those guys couldn't keep their jobs themselves, so how could are they? B.) Not only do the Texans not have the greatest line in the world -- it is indeed the joke of the league. But not because of what the national media says. They don't know diddly, as evidenced by the fact that two of those three guys are no longer going to be doing NFL games themselves. C.) So basically the same guys who started for the team are going to cut the amount of sacks down from 68 to 25??? Umm, pardon me for being skeptical.
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Yet another example of Capers' greatness.
 
This is the reason to try to get this guy in the draft and I think if the Texans trade down they can get him

NFL | More on W. Justice's Pro Day results
Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:09:47 -0700

ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reports USC OT Winston Justice, who still must resolve some old character issues for NFL scouts before the NFL Draft, was the player who inarguably helped himself the most at his Pro Day Sunday, April 2. In the vertical jump, Justice did 39 inches, an incredible mark for such a big man. He registered 38 "repetitions" in the bench press. Justice pulled up toward the end of the 40-yard drill, clutching his right hamstring, but one AFC scout still said he clocked him at 5.03 seconds. In the pass-block drills, Justice looked very agile and naturally athletic, despite the sore hamstring. "Happy with what I did and happy it's over," said Justice, who missed time during his career because of two off-field incidents, one of which included pulling a pellet gun on a USC student. "We'll just have to see where it goes from here."


Or later if possible
 
more info

NFL | W. Justice a limited participant at Pro Day
Sun, 2 Apr 2006 15:10:39 -0700

Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, reports USC OT Winston Justice measured 6-6 ¼ and weighed 320 pounds at his Pro Day workout Sunday, April 2. Justice had a 34½-inch arm length, 39-inch vertical jump, and 38 lifts.

from KFFL.com
 
Justice made himself several million dollars at the Pro Day. Probably the ones that Lindale blew away.
 
So where do you think he will go now with that awesome workout.

That dude is a freak... 39 in vertical??? That is WR heigth and 38 reps in the bench... oh my GOD... I think if he just extends his arms out he could just push half of the liine to the inside for DD to run outside
 
Bearfan Blue and Orange said:
So where do you think he will go now with that awesome workout.

That dude is a freak... 39 in vertical??? That is WR heigth and 38 reps in the bench... oh my GOD... I think if he just extends his arms out he could just push half of the liine to the inside for DD to run outside
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My guess is he goes off the board between the 5 & 12 picks.
 
I've stopped complaining about the O-line because I think we could get what would typically be a top 20 OT with our 2nd rounder. Plus we added Flanagan (2 years removed from the Pro Bowl). If we don't draft a top OT prospect, then I will be upset. We need to take care of that position in this draft, because 2007 will be all about defense (Pass rushing DE, MLB, CB, FS).
 
I hoping for a miracle

I wish that Gary Kubiak will go tell Winston Justice to fake a serious Hamstring Injury, which he would easily pick him up, because we know he isnt injured, and then pay him 1st round money and go to the super bowl

HAHAHAHAHA:stirpot:
 
Quick question, how long do you guys think that it will take the Texans to make a seriouse playoff run. Not just get to the WildCard and lose, but actually win a roudn or 2. I doubt that it will be this year, or next year, maybe the year after that, but by that time, 80% of our offensive line will be too old to play. Pitts and Hogdon are the only 2 young offensive lineman that are showing promise. Unless Sherman can do something with Wand, I think that he will forever be a backup in the NFL. To me it seems like the Texans are trying to put together a temporary patchwork o-line.
 
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