That applies even more to OT projects
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2019 1.23 TYTUS HOWARD OT Alabama State
- Thread starter AcresHomesTexan
- Start date
That applies even more to OT projects
Yeah my guess is there are some subjective factors as well, maybe experience too
If he hadn't tested as an avg athlete for a LT and if he gets an NFL S&C program will he be able to improve? After seeing Davenport I will settle for avg.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
That right there invalidates their grading system. Any grading system that has subjective factors is by definition unreliable because it changes based on the observer and their personal bias.
It's subjective, the entire NFL draft is subjective, even by NFL evaluators standards. That's what makes the NFL draft so much fun for draftniks, you get to see how your grades stack up with NFL evaluators and ultimately how these guys careers turn out.
What's not subjective is that Dillard is the better athlete.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I say yes, a small school is not going to be able to invest as much in any of their players as a D1 school and I doubt, though I admit I don't know for a fact, that he was able to personally come up with the funds for a combine coach. Hell someone even said in another post that it looked like his pants didn't fit right and that can easily cost you a half second in a dash or an inch or two in a vertical. I'm not saying Howard will be better than Dillard but I am saying those two were not near as far apart as some on here believe. So yeah I think Howard has just as much chance of being an NFL level starter as Dillard does.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Actually yeah you can make an argument for that to. In the Olympics is the person that took the gold the better athlete or were they just the better athlete for that day? And what about when competitors return later and beat the person that beat them before, are they now the better athlete?
My theory on all these sites is they just go by whatever teams tell them, if anything
Look at the combine numbers, dont take my word for it.
In fact Dillard has great workout numbers compared to other OT classes. Howard's numbers were very avg. Plus, Dillard has played up to his workout numbers against much better competition.
Dillard is the safer bet, I know you're mind isn't going to be changed.
Speaking of the Olympics, the Micheal Phelps/Carl Lewis of the world seem to have alot of days where they're the better athletes.
To be fair, Kalil was a Pro Bowl LT as a rookie. Then injuries kicked in.
I see a lot of posters talk about a guy making progress when they get into a NFL S&C program. I’ve been in the S&C industry for over 20yrs, and I’ve been all over the country attending lectures, conferences ect... I’m here to tell you, just because a guy has a NFL gig, doesn’t mean he’s awesome. In fact some of the top S&C guys are at the collegiate level, and some are in the private sector.
I think most of the big improvements you see in athletes as they age comes predominantly from their physical maturation. Most 25-26 yr olds are bigger and stronger then they were at 21-22, unless they stopped training. Making someone bigger and stronger is actually pretty easy, provided the athlete has a good work ethic. Making athletes faster requires more technical knowledge.
Having said that, comparing Dillard and Howard, if I were a betting man I’d bet the S&C coach from Washington State is probably better than the guy from Alabama State. Howard might benefit more coming from such a small program. Just a guess though as the guy from Alabama State might be awesome.
For the record, I heard some interesting things last season about the guy that left that had me scratching my head a bit. Might have contributed to the rash of hamstring injuries last season. For the record, every starting WR missed at least some time with a hamstring issue. I’ve also heard that the Texans are working with a MEGA smart guy that should help us out quite a bit
I think most of the big improvements you see in athletes as they age comes predominantly from their physical maturation. Most 25-26 yr olds are bigger and stronger then they were at 21-22, unless they stopped training. Making someone bigger and stronger is actually pretty easy, provided the athlete has a good work ethic. Making athletes faster requires more technical knowledge.
Having said that, comparing Dillard and Howard, if I were a betting man I’d bet the S&C coach from Washington State is probably better than the guy from Alabama State. Howard might benefit more coming from such a small program. Just a guess though as the guy from Alabama State might be awesome.
For the record, I heard some interesting things last season about the guy that left that had me scratching my head a bit. Might have contributed to the rash of hamstring injuries last season. For the record, every starting WR missed at least some time with a hamstring issue. I’ve also heard that the Texans are working with a MEGA smart guy that should help us out quite a bit
Howard is probably going to start as a rookie next yr.
How good is he going to be is the question. Good news is he's got alot of room to improve. Bad news is Devlin is his coach.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Ah so we are going to use the once in a lifetime type athlete as the measuring stick then. So by that standard any QB not named Tom Brady is a bust. I guess any gymnast that doesn't have the last name of Biles should go home.
Great post and thanks for the knowledge.
Who's the new Texans S&C guy and what's his background that makes you think he's very smart/an upgrade?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
This I will agree with, though the same could have been said of Dillard. I guess my question to you is you said you felt Dillard was the safer bet. Ok for the Houston Texans was Dillard so much better that he would be able to overcome possible bad coaching of Devlin and succeed regardless? I say no, there just wasn't that big a gap between them.
Combine ain't everything and you're a fool if you think it is
The best athlete's in the Olympics are usually the ones that win is my point.
Look at the level of competition and the combine numbers and I think you will see the gap between them.
Exactly
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I have, level of competition is hard to judge as that wasn't Howard's fault and is a result of how screwed up the college system is. Again when he went to the SR bowl he did very well or as you put it "looked like he belonged" there is no reason to think he won't "belong" just as much in the NFL as Dillard. As far as combine numbers they are worthless. They mean as much as a GPA does, they may help you your first job but on day one of that job they stop meaning anything. How many times can you say "Oh if only he had been .09 faster that sack wouldn't have happened." or "That extra half inch on the vertical jump really showed why he is so good."
Don't get me wrong, I still would have liked them to have tried to trade up into early 2nd for Howard and take Brown at 23. Maybe they tried and it didn't work but that's what I would have gone for. That being said I understand why they took Howard at 23 if he was their guy and they were afraid he wouldn't be there later. As far as taking him over Dillard I don't blame them for that either. Aside from the talking heads saying such I myself just don't see enough difference in them and if they thought that Howard's attitude or immeasurables were better I can buy that.
frethack
Rookie
Any chance you could explain the problem(s) that you heard about?
I was also surprised when Richesson resigned, considering the fanfare he got when he joined the organization.
The combine numbers arn't worthless or else they wouldn't have the drills. I'm not saying the combine numbers are the be all end all. But the better the athlete the better the chance for success.
When you combine this with the fact that Dillard has family that played in the NFL, he has a greateter chance for success. This isn't saying Howard cant be successful in the NFL. Just the odds are greater for Dillard to be successful.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I heard that the Texans did a lot of their conditioning on a Versaclimber, which is a great machine. However the VC is a completely different movement pattern than sprinting. Running fast is perhaps the best way to train the hamstrings. Part of conditioning is energy system development but the other part is developing the muscles used in the sport, and they way they are used in the sport. You have to expose athletes to some high speed running. I know they run routes ect in practice, but fatigue slows everyone down which decreases the forces on the muscles. Also, I know athletes do injure their hamstrings sprinting, some of that could be due to fatigue (a fatigued muscle can’t produce or receive the same level of force), some could be faulty mechanics (mechanics could be altered due to fatigue or it could be due to over trying, ie pushing a bit harder to catch a deep ball)
This altered mechanics issue is a big deal. Asafa Powell is one of the best technical sprinters in the world, however in big races he tended to press a bit and his technique went out the window. I saw a PhD in Biomechanics give a presentation on Powell and showed video evidence. It was reall interesting
I’m not sure if they had the WRs using the VC vs wind sprints, but if they did it would help explain some of what happened last season. I didn’t directly observe this so it’s second hand info.
As I’ve said, the Texans are working with Moxy Monitors which look at real time oxygen uses and I believe they’re consulting wit Aaron Davis, and that guy is wicked smart. I have high hopes for this season
This altered mechanics issue is a big deal. Asafa Powell is one of the best technical sprinters in the world, however in big races he tended to press a bit and his technique went out the window. I saw a PhD in Biomechanics give a presentation on Powell and showed video evidence. It was reall interesting
I’m not sure if they had the WRs using the VC vs wind sprints, but if they did it would help explain some of what happened last season. I didn’t directly observe this so it’s second hand info.
As I’ve said, the Texans are working with Moxy Monitors which look at real time oxygen uses and I believe they’re consulting wit Aaron Davis, and that guy is wicked smart. I have high hopes for this season
So you think they have those drills because they like to see guys running around in shorts hoping for a Chris Jones moment?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
No I think they have those drills because it gives them something else to keep them relevant in the off season, bring players stock up or in some cases down, have sponsors at the combine, get fans excited, and therefore spending more money. At the end of the day its all about making money. Proving the best athlete or other such BS has nothing to do with it.
Edit: This is from 2017 but further proves my point.
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Morning-Buzz/2017/03/03/Combine.aspx
So you think they have those drills because they like to see guys running around in shorts hoping for a Chris Jones moment?
I just hope a guy like Coutee, who had never had hamstring issues before coming to the Texans doesn't develop chronic hamstring issues. CnD/You can speak to this much better than I ever could.
You do realize they had the combine long before it became a TV/Draftnik event? So why did they have the combine to begin with when the combine actually used to cost the NFL $$$$.
They did much of this before the combine was a televised and commercial event.
http://www.nflcombine.net/history/
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Yes and if you read that before it was about medical evaluations.
"As football and the art of evaluating players has evolved, so has the NFL Scouting Combine. While medical examinations remain the number one priority of the event, athletes will also participate in a variety of psychological and physical tests, as well as, formal and informal interviews with top executives, coaches and scouts from all 32 NFL teams."
So all these numbers weren't factored in when it was started. Ultimately it doesn't matter what it was just what it is and these days it a publicity stunt and a new cash source.
Your quote indicates your predetermined conclusion is wrong, but I am not that invested winning any argument here
My point stands, they were doing these drill, medical evaluation and losing $$$$ before the combine was ever televised.
Ask yourself why they didn't just bring in players for medical evaluations and not do drills and save $$$$ before they started televising it?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Perhaps it does, I read it differently obviously but I will be the first to admit that yes I don't believe the NFL, or any company really, does anything that will not in some way make it money. Like you, however, I'm not invested enough to care beyond a way to kill some time at work. People value the combine differently, simply agree to disagree.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
And my point stands that it doesn't ultimately matter what it was before, now it is nothing but a glorified pip rally. Ask yourself why the combine became televised and those numbers went up in value as the idea of the mock draft became bigger and bigger if its not about making money.
I'm not interested in arguing with you on this subject anymore.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I agree, I've gotten bored with it myself. Someone revive the "Fire Bill O'Brien" Thread, that one was always fun.
I read someplace that Dillard's father preceded him @ Wash St but did not know anybody in the family had NFL experience ?
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
Darrius Heyward-Bey for all of those people out there that are putting too much stock into the combine.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
There are some that believe that when trying to avoid hamstring injuries and enhance sprint ability, the old traditional "day-after recovery should be ditched." They feel that sprint-oriented exercises need to be incorporated virtually every day. They advocate moderate stress sprint-oriented exercises one day, followed by heavy stress sprint-oriented exercises the next day..........not rest/recovery. What are your thoughts on that?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Aaron Wilson@AaronWilson_NFL 13m13 minutes ago
Texans first-round tackle Tytus Howard @levelstothis_2 "It's just a blessing to sign my first NFL contract. Now I'm ready to go to rookie minicamp and get to work and grow with my teammates and protect Deshaun [Watson]"
Texans first-round tackle Tytus Howard @levelstothis_2 "It's just a blessing to sign my first NFL contract. Now I'm ready to go to rookie minicamp and get to work and grow with my teammates and protect Deshaun [Watson]"
That's what I thought. You can grade your evaluation against the NFL, not the other way around. Whoever had Taylor rated higher than Howard & McGary had it wrong.
Agree. Dillard is the better athlete.
All we know for sure is that one team had Howard rated higher and one team had McGary rated higher. NFL draft boards aren't homogeneous.
I'm not talking about NFL draft boards. 32 of 32 NFL teams said Taylor was not worth a 1st round pick.
I'm talking about the mock drafters. There was obviously something the NFL teams knew about Taylor that they did not.
That's not true, either. The Jags could have rated Taylor as a 1st round talent, but took a higher rated player. Ditto other teams. We don't know for sure without access to all draft boards.