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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!

7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
This is really a frank assessment of the player's ability based on what I saw on the playing field.
It includes all the games he played last year and the game from yesterday.

Mind you, the level of scrutiny is high, given the dollar amount he was signed for.
This is a player coming into his fifth year in the league, which is a year more than Schaub when he first arrived in Houston.

I don't expect him to be sharp (accurate) in first pre-season game, but I expect a guy that knows what to do.
Given some basic defensive reads pre-snap and post-snap, I expect him to make the correct decision (nothing too fancy).

When there are more blockers than rushers, the QB doesn't have to hurry a throw.
When the defense shows man and stays man, the receiver with the defender further away often should get the ball under normal condition.
When the defender plays inside on a sideline route, the throw has to be made to the outside.
Automatic things like that should happen more often with a top level QB.

Too often; however, I did not see that.

These things limit the chance of success of the QB.
Some guys are limited by their physical ability; Osweiler seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum; not too much unlike Mallett (without the stupid decisions off the field; that is.)

Sure he can get better with more years in the league.
The Texans aren't paying him that much money to wait for long though.
 
I dont like his dropback. its wierd. throwing motion isnt fluid. Hopefully its just aesthetics and he gets the job done.
 
I'd say this is not just a little early, but way too early to draw conclusions. As much as OB was trying to find praise for the OLineman that played with Brock..........those were a real stretch. The WRs had their share of questionable route running. Basics may seem to be an easy accomplishment, but in a complicated offensive system like the one OB runs............everyone has to be running on the same page..........or anyone and everyone will look like rookies.
 
I saw all the intangibles we hope to find in kids coming out of college, or in our project Tom Savage.

I saw all the tools.

I saw a young inexperienced QB.

Now, I want to see what O'b can do with him.
 
I am fine with what I saw in Os, but my expectations were not high - show command in the huddle and don't make mistakes. Savage gave me confidence in QB depth, but he still looks like Garo Yepremian when the pocket collapses.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Color me skeptical about making really frank assessments off of 7 throws in the first preseason game.
Click to expand...

yep. I've always thought pre-season was fool's gold.

They were running more complicated offensive plays at Friday's scrimmage vs. the 49ers.
 
76Texan said:
This is really a frank assessment of the player's ability based on what I saw on the playing field.
It includes all the games he played last year and the game from yesterday.

Mind you, the level of scrutiny is high, given the dollar amount he was signed for.
This is a player coming into his fifth year in the league, which is a year more than Schaub when he first arrived in Houston.

I don't expect him to be sharp (accurate) in first pre-season game, but I expect a guy that knows what to do.
Given some basic defensive reads pre-snap and post-snap, I expect him to make the correct decision (nothing too fancy).

When there are more blockers than rushers, the QB doesn't have to hurry a throw.
When the defense shows man and stays man, the receiver with the defender further away often should get the ball under normal condition.
When the defender plays inside on a sideline route, the throw has to be made to the outside.
Automatic things like that should happen more often with a top level QB.

Too often; however, I did not see that.

These things limit the chance of success of the QB.
Some guys are limited by their physical ability; Osweiler seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum; not too much unlike Mallett (without the stupid decisions off the field; that is.)

Sure he can get better with more years in the league.
The Texans aren't paying him that much money to wait for long though.
Click to expand...
^ The man speaks the truth. Oz had a reputation for being erratic. His being another in the line of QB's Obie just had to have, after Fitzpatrick, Mallett, and Hoyer, was a factor in making you suspicious from the start. So far, nothing has indicated you were wrong.
 
Seegara said:
Oz had a reputation for being erratic.
Click to expand...

Had a rep with who? I haven't seen anything to that effect. Why did Elway and Kubiak want him back if that were true? Why is Elway so butthurt over him leaving still?.
 
Seegara said:
^ The man speaks the truth. Oz had a reputation for being erratic. His being another in the line of QB's Obie just had to have, after Fitzpatrick, Mallett, and Hoyer, was a factor in making you suspicious from the start. So far, nothing has indicated you were wrong.
Click to expand...
I never felt the signings of Fitzpatrick, Mallett or Hoyer meant OB had to have them. All three signed here because they were the cheapest veterans on the market that could run OB's system. Which one doesn't fit?

Brian Hoyer 2 years, $10.5 Million. $4.75 million guaranteed
Ryan Fitzpatrick 2 years, $7.5 Million. $4 million guaranteed
Ryan Mallett 2 years, $7 Million. $1.75 million guaranteed
Brock Osweiler 4 years, $72 million. $37 million guaranteed

I don't know about you, but that tells me all I need to know about what OB feels about all four QB's.
 
Seegara said:
^ The man speaks the truth. Oz had a reputation for being erratic. His being another in the line of QB's Obie just had to have, after Fitzpatrick, Mallett, and Hoyer, was a factor in making you suspicious from the start. So far, nothing has indicated you were wrong.
Click to expand...

This was a McNair call.
 
76Texan said:
This is really a frank assessment of the player's ability based on what I saw on the playing field.
It includes all the games he played last year and the game from yesterday.

Mind you, the level of scrutiny is high, given the dollar amount he was signed for.
This is a player coming into his fifth year in the league, which is a year more than Schaub when he first arrived in Houston.

I don't expect him to be sharp (accurate) in first pre-season game, but I expect a guy that knows what to do.
Given some basic defensive reads pre-snap and post-snap, I expect him to make the correct decision (nothing too fancy).

When there are more blockers than rushers, the QB doesn't have to hurry a throw.
When the defense shows man and stays man, the receiver with the defender further away often should get the ball under normal condition.
When the defender plays inside on a sideline route, the throw has to be made to the outside.
Automatic things like that should happen more often with a top level QB.

Too often; however, I did not see that.

These things limit the chance of success of the QB.
Some guys are limited by their physical ability; Osweiler seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum; not too much unlike Mallett (without the stupid decisions off the field; that is.)

Sure he can get better with more years in the league.
The Texans aren't paying him that much money to wait for long though.
Click to expand...

At least you weren't pumping Savage up over him.

Last year was basically Os rookie year. Now he's "the" man in a brand new system that's supposedly so hard a Harvard grad had a difficult time with it.

Not saying Os doesn't have a long way to go, but 7 games and 7 passes in a pre-season game does not define one's career. I won't bring up the 1st 7 games of Peyton's career.
 
Speedy said:
At least you weren't pumping Savage up over him.

Last year was basically Os rookie year. Now he's "the" man in a brand new system that's supposedly so hard a Harvard grad had a difficult time with it.

Not saying Os doesn't have a long way to go, but 7 games and 7 passes in a pre-season game does not define one's career. I won't bring up the 1st 7 games of Peyton's career.
Click to expand...
It might be early for some of you guys, but it wasn't for me.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but if there's a method of keeping records of draft and free agent talk on the forum over the years - starting with why I "wanted" to trade for Schaub in 2007 - people would see that with a veteran like Osweiler, 7 regular season games in his fourth year, when things count (and not give-away games) is more than enough for me to evaluate a QB.

I had scouted almost all of the draftable QBs plus quite a few long shots, and my prognosis have been pretty in line.

If I recount all my thoughts, I'm sure there are TT members (if they show up) who can agree or refute my statements.

Starting with Schaub, for example, TexanMike (who still come around here and there) would vouch for me that I agree with him completely that the Texans should trade for Schaub.

Why?
If you go back and look at the draft that year, you would see why.
I can't speak for all of Texanmike's thoughts, so I just recount mine.

I was in the camp that Jamarcus Russell has a strong possibility to be a bust.
To come back and read what the pros (including Kubiak, Bradshaw, Marinelli, and then-Raiders-HC Kiffin) had to say about Russell, I couldn't help but chuckle.
http://www.si.com/nfl/photos/2010/05/10jamarcus-russell-pre-draft-hype

Some others were in Brady Quinn's camp, but I just didn't see it.

I wasn't a Cougars homer either, with Kolb available.
The Eagles picked him at #36; I was happy for him, but that was it.
Nobody heard me clamoring for the Texans to draft him with a trade down or anything like that.

The rest of that class needs no mention.

So you see, just with the assessment from that year, I can actually state that when I use the word "frank", I do mean it.

I don't have a need to gloat or defend myself.
Those who know my posting history could see that (hopefully).
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'd say this is not just a little early, but way too early to draw conclusions. As much as OB was trying to find praise for the OLineman that played with Brock..........those were a real stretch. The WRs had their share of questionable route running. Basics may seem to be an easy accomplishment, but in a complicated offensive system like the one OB runs............everyone has to be running on the same page..........or anyone and everyone will look like rookies.
Click to expand...
I'll bring up some examples so you can see that my observations are independent from possible mishaps involving others.

Well, at least I already had all the thoughts drawn up in my head, but it's not easy to try to find the right words to describe them.

I'll try the first one here:

First pass.

2-7-SF 48 (12:53) (Shotgun) B.Osweiler pass incomplete deep right to D.Hopkins (T.Brock).

Texans in empty shotgun, double splits, double slots, TE strong left.

Niners showed standard 42 Front, single deep safety.
Both boundary CBs played man up.
Both inside DBs played at same depth as the 2 LBs, about 7 yards off LOS
(around the first down marker on 2nd and 7).
They showed no blitz, and did not blitz.
Texans had 5 to block 4 rushers.

On the right side, the Texans ran a Hi-Lo concept, with Hopkins taking the LCB deep on a 15-yd fade route.
It was an outside release; the LCB turned and had inside depth (ie. he was further downfield and on the inside of Hopkins.)
Osweiler had clear view of the situation from the get-go.
The ball had to be thrown to the outside, but it wasn't.
This allowed the nickel back the chance to easily contest for the ball, causing an incompletion.
(The LCB T. Brock #43 was credited with a pass defended.)
Hopkins gave Osweiler at least 2 yards along the sideline to place his throw; that was a lot of room for a QB.
Rudimentary football, IMO.

Ball placement aside; it wasn't even the best decision as where to go with the ball on 2nd and 7.
On this Hi-Lo concept; Fuller #15, in the slot, ran a 5-yd out.
The nickel back #43 C. Davis, played 7 yards deep and backpedaling another 3 yards.
That would have been an easy completion to Fuller because there's no way any DB can react to the 5-yd out route, playing that deep.
A sure first down, really.

Sure, you can give Osweiler the benefit of the doubt here, saying that he was working on his sync with Hopkins so that they can go with that throw when needed in the regular season;
Ball placement was difficult to excuse though.
 
Ok, I'll play.

And keep in mind we have no idea what was asked of him as far as where to work the field, no game planning, yada yada....

7 passes in first preseason game with a new team and new system.

Completed 4 of those passes.

The first incomplete to Hopkins was a good play. They just need to work on their timing and that will be beautiful.

Second incomplete to Braxton was forced and probably shouldn't have been thrown but Braxton still had a chance to get to it with his hands.

The third incomplete was to Braxton was in tight coverage and he still had a chance to make a play on the ball.

You boys crack me up!

I don't know what some of you were expecting out of the first preseason game, but I think we should wait until after the full first season game before we tar and feather the man.
 
76Texan said:
You're rather new on this board, so I won't mind you.
I'm not one who gets into word games; except for a little fun here and there.
Click to expand...

Guy, I couldn't give the first sh*t whether you read what I post, respond, ignore, or anything else whatsoever ... doesn't mean I won't point out some nonsense. Doesn't matter to me if you've been here droning on and on for eight more years before me or not, either.

But by all means, you continue on not minding me some more.
 
76Texan said:
I'll bring up some examples so you can see that my observations are independent from possible mishaps involving others.

Well, at least I already had all the thoughts drawn up in my head, but it's not easy to try to find the right words to describe them.

I'll try the first one here:

First pass.

2-7-SF 48 (12:53) (Shotgun) B.Osweiler pass incomplete deep right to D.Hopkins (T.Brock).

Texans in empty shotgun, double splits, double slots, TE strong left.

Niners showed standard 42 Front, single deep safety.
Both boundary CBs played man up.
Both inside DBs played at same depth as the 2 LBs, about 7 yards off LOS
(around the first down marker on 2nd and 7).
They showed no blitz, and did not blitz.
Texans had 5 to block 4 rushers.

On the right side, the Texans ran a Hi-Lo concept, with Hopkins taking the LCB deep on a 15-yd fade route.
It was an outside release; the LCB turned and had inside depth (ie. he was further downfield and on the inside of Hopkins.)
Osweiler had clear view of the situation from the get-go.
The ball had to be thrown to the outside, but it wasn't.
This allowed the nickel back the chance to easily contest for the ball, causing an incompletion.
(The LCB T. Brock #43 was credited with a pass defended.)
Hopkins gave Osweiler at least 2 yards along the sideline to place his throw; that was a lot of room for a QB.
Rudimentary football, IMO.

Ball placement aside; it wasn't even the best decision as where to go with the ball on 2nd and 7.
On this Hi-Lo concept; Fuller #15, in the slot, ran a 5-yd out.
The nickel back #43 C. Davis, played 7 yards deep and backpedaling another 3 yards.
That would have been an easy completion to Fuller because there's no way any DB can react to the 5-yd out route, playing that deep.
A sure first down, really.

Sure, you can give Osweiler the benefit of the doubt here, saying that he was working on his sync with Hopkins so that they can go with that throw when needed in the regular season;
Ball placement was difficult to excuse though.
Click to expand...

I said it earlier in another thread. Do you know what plays he was told to call? It's possible he was practicing in a game situation for short routes, which some say he needs the most work on. It's just a thought, but there were times other options were obvious.
 
Cp8g7JjUAAAoMWt.jpg:large

PDS ‏@PatDStat 3h3 hours ago


.@SCT_6834 Seems like someone is there over the top of Fuller.
Click to expand...



PDS ‏@PatDStat 3h3 hours ago

PDS Retweeted Dune

There is a safety over the top too, can’t see it shows up late in the frame. Brock made the right choice,

PDS added,


Dune @Dune_in_Katy
@PatDStat @SCT_6834 is that Dhop winning his route on the bottom?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
He is going to be be better than what we had last year and that is all that counts.

We have the pieces and I have no doubt it will work as the pre-season and season marches on.

We had Hoyer and Mallett as our 2 main QB's, do you really think he cannot be better than that?
 
Did Osweiler look lost out there? Yes. Did Savage make us feel good about him? Yes.

If we're still having this same conversation after New Orleans and saying nice things about Weeden as well, then yeah, I'll help with the trashing of Osweiler. But not after just one game.
 
My Texans compadras please give the man time. It was only the 1st preseason game in which the play calling was very vanilla against the 49ers blitz schemes. Not only that, we were down three starting offensive linemen. Add to the simple fact that 2 starting linemen are new addition. Throwing in a new running back learning this complicated offense.

Give it time lol
 
3-7-SF 48 (12:49) (Shotgun) B.Osweiler pass incomplete deep middle to B.Miller.

Texans in 11 shotgun.
Double splits, slot left, TE right, RB left at same depth as QB.

Niners showed single deep safety.
LCB played nealy 10 yards off LOS.
RCB played press man on Hopkins; so was the nickel back on Fuller in the left slot.
Overload 7 man front on the TE side.
Possible blitz with the SS #41 Bethea coming up to the line to check the TE.
(Keep in mind, Texans also had 7 to block, with the 5 linemen, the TE and the RB).

I would have liked for Osweiler to take an immediate peek at the overload side
right after the ball was snapped to make sure the blitz isn't coming.
This is how the QB could get killed, or misses a possible big play.

Here, Osweiler missed a big chance to convert the third and seven.

If he peeked, he would have seen that the LCB #26 had dropped off into cover 2 deep.
The SS Bethea #41 turned around and trailed after the speedy Fuller.
Old Bethea chasing the young speedy Fuller?
Are you kidding me?

I don't mind that Osweiler was slightly off-target on the throw to Miller.
This is too early for that.
But I do mind that Osweiler didn't demonstrate that he has enough of the mental capability
to make the game easier for himself and his receiver.

@ Doc CNND
Sure, there was a guy over the top.
That was the LCB that dropped back into cover 2.
Due to his drop, the chance that he can react to defend the first down is quite low. He can defend the deeper route, but we only needed 7 yards.

Hopkins did have a step on the RCB, but he was running a deep in.
I don't have the 22 view to see where the original single deep safety was so we can't tell if Hopkins was actually "open".
 
Also Doc,

If you look at the photo again, you would see that Fuller was already more than 5 yards beyond the first down marker.
The LCB (who had dropped back to switch spot with the safety Bethea) was still a long way off of Fuller.
This also means that Fuller had run free for 12 yards.
That's a lot of room for the QB to throw the ball.

*** In the last post, I was wanting to say Miller in the left slot.
 
Was a very small sample size but what we did get to see didn't impress me .... sure hope the entire offense looks leaps and bounds better next game.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I'd rather he looked better, but if he did it's still pre season and ultimately a good performance would be/and should be met with a little skepticism as well.
Click to expand...

I've said it a few times before; with a QB - or any player in general - I want to see improvement from one year to the next.

I've seen Osweiler in college.
I put him and Foles in a similar category.
They were a bit slow to read and scan the field (ie., lacking field vision).
At the time, I had answered two different TT members when they had separately asked for my opinion on them.

My answer was somewhat the same.
If they can somehow progress on the read, they have a chance.

But that also means two things:

1. They weren't the real deal to begin with, IMHO.

I would rather not draft neither one of them, nor Tannehill.

My choice for the Texans that year was Wilson and Keenum (with Cousins also in consideration.)
I even said at the time that these three guys saw the most pressures in college and they all responded quite well, so I like their chances.

We could have had a starter and a solid back-up (without paying the real money until the guy is proven.)

2. I don't see enough of the year over year improvement in either to like them.

I'm tired of mediocrity.
 
lol @ this thread, impatient couch potatoes thinking they know best. The guy threw 7 passes in a new offense, with all new players around him, in his first game, with a bunch of rookie wideouts, a new rb and both starting Ts on the bench. Go ahead and tell me how you expected him to go 7/7 with 299 yards and 7 touchdowns. #unrealisticfools
 
76Texan said:
I've said it a few times before; with a QB - or any player in general - I want to see improvement from one year to the next.

I've seen Osweiler in college.
I put him and Foles in a similar category.
They were a bit slow to read and scan the field (ie., lacking field vision).
At the time, I had answered two different TT members when they had separately asked for my opinion on them.

My answer was somewhat the same.
If they can somehow progress on the read, they have a chance.

But that also means two things:

1. They weren't the real deal to begin with, IMHO.

I would rather not draft neither one of them, nor Tannehill.

My choice for the Texans that year was Wilson and Keenum (with Cousins also in consideration.)
I even said at the time that these three guys saw the most pressures in college and they all responded quite well, so I like their chances.

We could have had a starter and a solid back-up (without paying the real money until the guy is proven.)

2. I don't see enough of the year over year improvement in either to like them.

I'm tired of mediocrity.
Click to expand...

Brock's first three years in the league, he had a total of 30 pass attempts. Almost half of those came in the last game of 2013 when he subbed in during a blowout win.

I can see with Foles, who has been a starter for 2 different teams for at least half a season over the last four years. But Osweiler? How can you say that you haven't seen year over year improvement with him when there is no statistical data with which to make that assertion?
 
Corrosion said:
Was a very small sample size but what we did get to see didn't impress me .... sure hope the entire offense looks leaps and bounds better next game.
Click to expand...

THe OL improves and you will see the offense improve.

Os has alot to work on, mainly timing and reading defenses better. Just remember he has only played in 7 games and is in the process of learning a new offense. I imagine the game is moving really fast for him right now. Hopefully it slows down at some point in the season. I wouldn't expect things to slow down by game one of the regular season.

In other words I dont expect the Texans to win the SB this yr. But they will be better at the QB position than the crapfest that was there last yr.
 
sandman said:
Brock's first three years in the league, he had a total of 30 pass attempts. Almost half of those came in the last game of 2013 when he subbed in during a blowout win.

I can see with Foles, who has been a starter for 2 different teams for at least half a season over the last four years. But Osweiler? How can you say that you haven't seen year over year improvement with him when there is no statistical data with which to make that assertion?
Click to expand...

It's called seeing what you want to see.
 
76Texan said:
If he peeked, he would have seen that the LCB #26 had dropped off into cover 2 deep.
The SS Bethea #41 turned around and trailed after the speedy Fuller.
Old Bethea chasing the young speedy Fuller?
Are you kidding me?
Click to expand...

Oz and Fuller have worked together for how long? In a year or two Oz might confidently make that throw because he knows Fuller can outrun that coverage but for right now the guys barely know each other. Not to mention he's running a completely new offense and his head is probably buzzing every play trying to recall his progressions. He dropped back and saw the help over the top and went to the next option.

Half the starters were out and the other half are also in their 1st year in the system. These guys have no chemistry. I've been saying this all offseason that the offense is going to be a work in progress this year because of all the new faces. There's going to be growing pains and sometimes it's not going to be pretty. People need to come to terms with that.
 
That was a hot mess he put on display, somewhat understandable but still a little disappointing.

I just want to see real progress. I'm not expecting John Elway, but I want to see something much better this week then last. He'll likely have a full half to work with, plenty of time to get into a rhythm.
 
steelbtexan said:
THe OL improves and you will see the offense improve.

Os has alot to work on, mainly timing and reading defenses better. Just remember he has only played in 7 games and is in the process of learning a new offense. I imagine the game is moving really fast for him right now. Hopefully it slows down at some point in the season. I wouldn't expect things to slow down by game one of the regular season.

In other words I dont expect the Texans to win the SB this yr. But they will be better at the QB position than the crapfest that was there last yr.
Click to expand...
My post was concerning Os throwing a 95 mph fastball on a route where a 85 mph change-up was required. Having thought about it some more I'm going to back off and chalk that one up to first start (as a Texan) adrenaline.

I really hope the O-line plays a heck of a lot better. As SB said, if they improve, the offense as a whole will improve.
 
I'm really waiting to see how the team does in the 3rd PS game. That's when we will see a reasonable attempt to game plan and attack an opposing team.
 
amazing80 said:
lol @ this thread, impatient couch potatoes thinking they know best. The guy threw 7 passes in a new offense, with all new players around him, in his first game, with a bunch of rookie wideouts, a new rb and both starting Ts on the bench. Go ahead and tell me how you expected him to go 7/7 with 299 yards and 7 touchdowns. #unrealisticfools
Click to expand...

That is ridiculous.

I only expected 3 touchdowns.
 
BYDS said:
He is going to be be better than what we had last year and that is all that counts.

We have the pieces and I have no doubt it will work as the pre-season and season marches on.

We had Hoyer and Mallett as our 2 main QB's, do you really think he cannot be better than that?
Click to expand...
A fire hydrant on the field would have been better than Hoyer.
I'll concede that Oz will be better than Hoyer, but will he be good enough? Time will answer the question.
Most important quality for a QB is quick thinking. You're either born with that or you're not. It's a prerequisite for accurate reads. After that comes knowledge of defenses, and that can be acquired.
 
Some of y'all's expectations of a pre-season game do not match up to conventional wisdom and, you know, reality.

There is very little to be analyzed here, so jumping to hard conclusions is futile.

I'm glad for what we did not see: confusion, panic, fumbled snaps.

The rest of what you are searching for is going to take time for this offense, and specifically, these players, to gel. This is not a plug-and-play scheme. This is not Madden. This is one of the more complicated offenses in the league with new offensive linemen, new RB, new QB, new WRs. It is unrealistic to have any expectations of a well-oiled machine at this point in its development and implementation.
 
Alot of new pieces on this offense. Wouldn't suprise me if it's a mess till mid season. I'm sure brock will be fine next season
 
Double Barrel said:
Some of y'all's expectations of a pre-season game do not match up to conventional wisdom and, you know, reality.

There is very little to be analyzed here, so jumping to hard conclusions is futile.

I'm glad for what we did not see: confusion, panic, fumbled snaps.

The rest of what you are searching for is going to take time for this offense, and specifically, these players, to gel. This is not a plug-and-play scheme. This is not Madden. This is one of the more complicated offenses in the league with new offensive linemen, new RB, new QB, new WRs. It is unrealistic to have any expectations of a well-oiled machine at this point in its development and implementation.
Click to expand...

You mean to say you can't make the Pro Bowl off the first preseason game? :shocked
 
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