Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Why are some people so blinded by david carr

wenskek

wenskek

Noob
why are some people so blinded by david carr, I personally have not seen anything out of him in the 4 years hes been here to make me think he is the best thing for this franchise. whether the front office wants to admit it or not this franchise is now starting over and in a rebuilding mode, but how can we/they even claim it as a rebuilding mode when nothing was ever really built. And i am tired of hearing the same old stuff about how he has never had an oline because although that might have something to do with, there is much more to it than just the oline. i firmly believe along with many others that if VY recieves appropriate coaching and given time that he will be a better nfl qb than david and would be a great addition for this team and city.
 
your right so maybe we should get vince young he can "run" and thats what he'll be doing behind our line _running_ and not by choice and that dont leave much time for "passing". :yahoo:
 
Why are you so blinded by VY? David Carr may not have lived up to his potential so far, but what about his 2004 season?

61.2% Completion, 3531 yards, 16 tds, 83.5 passer rating. Those are VERY decent stats

And this year, behind our musical chairs, injury riddled O-Line (AND w/out Andre Johnson and Domanick Davis for a good chunk of the season) STILL completed 60.5% of his passes for 2488 yards and 14 tds (77.2 passer rating)

So, when healthy and having a terrible OLine, Carr put up pretty respectable numbers. This past year, he didn't have the same blockers in front of him pretty much all year, had his #1 and #2 offensive weapons on the sideline a good part of the season, and STILL posted decent stats.
 
*sigh*

Do you honestly think that any QB in the history of the NFL would have fared any better behind the 2-14 Texans offense? idonno:

Honestly, I haven't seen to much blind loyalty to Carr these days. Obviously there are many folks here that see Vince Young through burnt orange colored glasses, and that's their right. But that seems to be the only prevalent blind loyalty to a player around the forum lately.
 
Double Barrel said:
*sigh*

Do you honestly think that any QB in the history of the NFL would have fared any better behind the 2-14 Texans offense? idonno:

Honestly, I haven't seen to much blind loyalty to Carr these days. Obviously there are many folks here that see Vince Young through burnt orange colored glasses, and that's their right. But that seems to be the only prevalent blind loyalty to a player around the forum lately.
Click to expand...

The way I have seen it through a person who would be happy with both draftees is that people either think VY hung the moon or people have 4 years or lame excuses for Carr. I think the answer lies in between. I think VY will eventually be better than Carr. I'm not a Carr fan. However, it doesn't mean that it is best for the Texans now. Bush with some other high to mid round picks and FA for O-line and maybe we can see what Carr can do. I actually agree with the original statement of this post but can see both sides.
 
i do like VY but i dont see why we need to waste a draft pick on him when we have a Good QB behind a terrible OL. VY would of looked bad too.
 
could/would someone answer the topic question please? Come on, I KNOW there are Carr defenders on this board that have talked incessantly about his 'potential greatness', one of you, please just try and explain why you are so blindly loyal to the guy please. I really want to know this answer because personally I find it quite confusing, and up until I get an explanation from Carr's supporters, amusing really.

so anyone wanna take on the topic question? Why is it that (Blank) is so loyal to Carr? Irregardless of his current lack of playing ability as a franchise QB, for whatever reason i.e. O-line, hurt supporting cast of players, poor coaching, etc.

But WHY are you so loyal to Carr? I seriously want to know.
 
thegr8fan said:
could/would someone answer the topic question please? Come on, I KNOW there are Carr defenders on this board that have talked incessantly about his 'potential greatness', one of you, please just try and explain why you are so blindly loyal to the guy please. I really want to know this answer because personally I find it quite confusing, and up until I get an explanation from Carr's supporters, amusing really.

so anyone wanna take on the topic question? Why is it that (Blank) is so loyal to Carr? Irregardless of his current lack of playing ability as a franchise QB, for whatever reason i.e. O-line, hurt supporting cast of players, poor coaching, etc.

But WHY are you so loyal to Carr? I seriously want to know.
Click to expand...


because of what he has done with what he has. Sure he has been so so, but whos to say anyone else could of done better here, noone so i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. PLUs when he does have protection he can pick apart defenses, we have all see it on few occasions.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Boy we really brought some fresh takes and zingers to the Carr/Yound debate on this thread. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

:rofl:

:deadhorse

Double Barrel said:
Obviously there are many folks here that see Vince Young through burnt orange colored glasses, and that's their right.
Click to expand...


PS: I am a VY fan and my glasses are Maroon baby!
 
Double Barrel said:
*sigh*
Obviously there are many folks here that see Vince Young through burnt orange colored glasses, and that's their right.
Click to expand...
Young has tremendous potential in the NFL: one story I was reading said if
he could learn to pass like he runs, he possibly could be the greatest NFL QB
ever. But that same article reminded the reader that if he failed to do so,
he might end being just another Kordell Stewart. Rest assured that McNair won't be wearing those burnt orange glasses, because he'll see both the up and the downside.
 
because of what he has done with what he has. Sure he has been so so, but whos to say anyone else could of done better here, noone so i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. PLUs when he does have protection he can pick apart defenses, we have all see it on few occasions.-TexansTrueFan
Click to expand...
thanks TTF for the honest answer, coupled with a realistic view of Carr's current contributions (highlighted by me in your reply with bold letters). It has been 4 years now, so just out of curiosity how much longer does Carr get from you with his 'current so so play' before you stop giving him the 'benefit of the doubt'?
 
with change coming to the front office and depending on what they do to help our OL issues i'd say 1 more season to prove his worth. BUT if they dont feel like we can fix the OL in one season and we start "rebuilding" already than sure why not get one of colleges best QBs and start building around him.
 
i dont think blinded is the right word. Im not sold on him, but I think he has done enough to show that he deserves another chance in the new system. I think that we can better use our first round pick.
 
thegr8fan said:
could/would someone answer the topic question please? Come on, I KNOW there are Carr defenders on this board that have talked incessantly about his 'potential greatness', one of you, please just try and explain why you are so blindly loyal to the guy please. I really want to know this answer because personally I find it quite confusing, and up until I get an explanation from Carr's supporters, amusing really.

so anyone wanna take on the topic question? Why is it that (Blank) is so loyal to Carr? Irregardless of his current lack of playing ability as a franchise QB, for whatever reason i.e. O-line, hurt supporting cast of players, poor coaching, etc.

But WHY are you so loyal to Carr? I seriously want to know.
Click to expand...

I think his potential for the next few years is as good or better than VY if they were both at Houston. It is not about long term loyalty, this is about us having the ability to help our team. If we give Vince way to much credit and say he is Carr's equal at this very moment, we would still lose out on picking an additional playmaker who makes our team better. And for the short term reason, the man plays for my team.:yahoo: I root for those guys know matter what, you can take your college loyalties and go:grouphug: on campus. I even root for Buchannon to tackle someone, even though he's not real good at it.:ok:
 
I am not blinded by Carr, but by the night sky when all of the stars in the sky align and spell Vince Young's name! :)
 
Double Barrel said:
*sigh*

Do you honestly think that any QB in the history of the NFL would have fared any better behind the 2-14 Texans offense? idonno:

Honestly, I haven't seen to much blind loyalty to Carr these days. Obviously there are many folks here that see Vince Young through burnt orange colored glasses, and that's their right. But that seems to be the only prevalent blind loyalty to a player around the forum lately.
Click to expand...

Exactly. i think reasonable, rational people are willing to entertain the idea that Carr may not prove to be the future QB of this team. Until the foundation of this team is fixed, however, it's definitely not clear that he's a failure and there's ample evidence to suggest that a new QB would endure much of the same treatment.

When troubleshooting a problem, change the fewest number of variables between tests as possible - that's basic problem-solving.
 
The thing is, we know what one of our problems definitely is--the o-line...Jerry
Click to expand...
The thing is, we know what one of our problems definitely is---David Carr.

see how rediculous this sounds in the 'serious debate/question' type threads.

lets keep the Vince Young is a God debates in some other thread also.

Come on now, I know that there are ALOT more Carr supporters out there. So why can't some of you die-hard, no matter what, Carr supporters give me a simple answer to the question, like TTF did.

I just want to know why some of you Carr supporters are so......well supportive, no matter how poorly Carr has played in his 4 years at Houston.

Family members, and Carr employee's need not answer, it is quite obvious to even me why YOU would support Carr, irregardless.
 
Since I don't want to run someone off that is fairly new to the boards, let me just say that if you would sort through the threads on a daily basis you'd see that there has been a lot of debate on Carr throughout this season.

I think Carr deserves at least one more year, if not two, because no sane individual can look at this team as a whole and say, "Man, we really had a stinker at QB." Some people paint with a broad brush, and because Carr has made a few bonehead plays (he's the ONLY NFL QB who does so, by the way) and/or has said some boneheaded things in the media (He, too, is the ONLY NFL QB to do so, by the way) then he's a "horrible quarterback" who should be tarred and feathered and ran out of town on a rail.

I choose to think that if a guy like Plummer can resurrect his career, so can Carr. But because everybody has the typical Houston pro sports fever, which includes pouting when they don't get their way and threatening protests etc., then what you have is an environment where Vince Young is the savior and yet three years down the road the next flavor of the month will come along and of course....be the savior of the franchise.

Call me sentimental, but I actually like what they got going in Green Bay in terms of fan base: Those guys freeze their rears off to watch EVERY game at Lambeau whether they are a good team or not. Regardless of whether they get who they want or not, they are there to support their team.

Seems to me that some young goofball named Brett Favre had just been shipped off to Green Bay. He was wild and reckless and looked like Billy Joe Tolliver's cousin, yet Green Bay fans cheered him on when he trotted out onto the field after The Magic Man got injured. And the rest is history. If that had been Houston, and Favre had come here, he'd have been booed out of the town after a few incompletions and interceptions.

People need to slow the emotional roller coaster and just let this franchise do its homework and sort out who is best for this TEAM.
 
I think you answered yourself in the original post
....recieves appropriate coaching and given time....
Click to expand...
there are fans out there that feel Carr has not been given either. Time in a sense of what's available behind the line and a full set of players to pass to. Now time in a sense of "in the NFL" - yep, been 4 years and that's about hitting "prime veteranship" now.

For being sacked in the early years... and every year after - tends to result in happy feet. Your boss tells ya that we'll protect you the following year - then decides "protect yourself with a shorter drop and a RT at the LT position - sound good?" Happy feet, take 4.

There's the "lock on" arguement - however, I've seen other QB's do this as well - however, I think others can read the defense better to know where the mismatch is so they can lock on and still make the play.

There's also word that Carr could never check plays - or only check to a run, kinda limited his ability (if it's there) to find the mismatch... no mismatch on a run play.

Personally, I've seen flashes of what could be over the years - so I think it's a general consensus similar to Casserly - if it was the coaching that caused the team to bottom out, fine they're gone. We'll bring in a new staff and Carr / Casserly need to prove they weren't also part of the problem in the next season (possibly two).

I was going to put up some QB stats - but as mentioned in other threads, stats don't tell the whole story and can be skewed in a certain favor. If we get Young - good. If we keep Carr to prove himself - good. I think we're in a good position to improve the team regardless of direction and aquirement in the offseason.

One because Casserly has big brother watching now and off a 2-14 season, there's a better chance of improving off that than not.
 
gtexan02 said:
Why are you so blinded by VY? David Carr may not have lived up to his potential so far, but what about his 2004 season?

61.2% Completion, 3531 yards, 16 tds, 83.5 passer rating. Those are VERY decent stats

And this year, behind our musical chairs, injury riddled O-Line (AND w/out Andre Johnson and Domanick Davis for a good chunk of the season) STILL completed 60.5% of his passes for 2488 yards and 14 tds (77.2 passer rating)

So, when healthy and having a terrible OLine, Carr put up pretty respectable numbers. This past year, he didn't have the same blockers in front of him pretty much all year, had his #1 and #2 offensive weapons on the sideline a good part of the season, and STILL posted decent stats.
Click to expand...

...post Carr's stats from the 8th game of 2004 forward --last 25 games
 
Because Carr is more than like the most sacked quarterback in the last Decade, and he doesn't complain about it......... ever. And he is talented. Can you compare him to Peyton Manning?? Maybe. He's got an arm & he's pretty accurate. He's got some good numbers that really don't make since he's been throwing from his backside, or on the run....

Could any other QB have done better than Carr?? Not Manning(neither of them), not Tom Brady, not Ben Rothlisberg. Bret Favre?? Maybe....... no really, maybe. He makes plays...... and I'm not a Bret Favre fan.....trust me. Donavon......... once again, not a fan. Culpepper(I am a fan), Steve McNair(fan) Michael Vick(not a fan), Jake Plummer(fan) John Elway(fan) Steve Young(fan).
Matt Lienart.... no, but he's going to be great in the NFL........ well maybe not, he's going to the Saints.

If I had to choose between Leinart, and Carr, I don't think I'd give it two seconds. Stay with what we've got, adding Matt doesn't change one Dynamic on our team. Bush?? I really don't see how he's going to make this team better. Give Domanick the Line you want to give Bush, and we'll have a reall running back. One that can pass protect, and run........Same with Wells...Why would we want to take him out of the game, and put a wide reciever/running back into the game. David doesn't have time to throw the ball to anyone.

We need to get a better line(which I don't think we can do in one year), or Get a different Quarterback. If you put Vince Young in next year, I bet we'll have 2 wins in the first eight games. I'd put money on 6 before Christmas.

I'll admit, if Vince Young wasn't going to be in this years draft, I'd be preaching Offensive line, Deffense, Trade down.

But if you see Vince Young like a Michael Vick, I understand why you don't understand.
 
thegr8fan said:
The thing is, we know what one of our problems definitely is---David Carr.

see how rediculous this sounds in the 'serious debate/question' type threads.

lets keep the Vince Young is a God debates in some other thread also.

Come on now, I know that there are ALOT more Carr supporters out there. So why can't some of you die-hard, no matter what, Carr supporters give me a simple answer to the question, like TTF did.

I just want to know why some of you Carr supporters are so......well supportive, no matter how poorly Carr has played in his 4 years at Houston.

Family members, and Carr employee's need not answer, it is quite obvious to even me why YOU would support Carr, irregardless.
Click to expand...

I am not a die-hard, no matter what supporter, but I'll give you an answer. I support Carr because Carr is part of the team that I support. I want the team to show up and play and that is what Carr has done. I don't care if we don't win a superbowl during Carr's tenure or that we didn't make the best personnel choices. What matters to me are that the guys we got go out there and play the best football they can. So far Carr has been out there, how many games has he missed? How many times has he said anything negative about the team? You wanna know why I'm loyal to Carr? It's because Carr has been loyal to the team and he deserves my support. I am glad ppl like you are not in charge of the Texans, because if you don't know how to show your team and players support they would not be loyal or supportive of you. The real question should be why aren't you supportive of Carr.
 
tsip said:
...post Carr's stats from the 8th game of 2004 forward --last 25 games
Click to expand...

No, he'll posts that makes the point that Carr has the goods and he has been FAILED by the TEAM and the MANAGEMENT. It's easy to make sure someone looks bad by only looking at the bad and ignoring what's good. If we took only your bad test scores from school and ignored that which you did well in....guess what....you would probably look like you were brain dead. That's what your trying to do with Carr. It isn't all good and it isn't all bad and a GREAT deal of the bad had a large amount to do with those who have gone and there is very likely improvement on the horizon.
 
gpshafer_1976 said:
I think Carr deserves at least one more year, if not two, because no sane individual can look at this team as a whole and say, "Man, we really had a stinker at QB." Some people paint with a broad brush, and because Carr has made a few bonehead plays (he's the ONLY NFL QB who does so, by the way) and/or has said some boneheaded things in the media (He, too, is the ONLY NFL QB to do so, by the way) then he's a "horrible quarterback" who should be tarred and feathered and ran out of town on a rail.
Click to expand...
Now that's not fair....... the read I'm getting is that everyone still loves Carr, we just want to add Vince to the team. If that means we loose Carr, then we loose Carr. I think he is still here, because of the fans more than in spite of them. If Casserly would've gotten rid of Carr in the previous four years, there would've been an uproar.
The ability to draft Vince Young, and the pitiful season we've had, plus the poor performance of the last four years...... changes all that. We (for the most part) don't think Carr sucks....... but we think we can do better.
gpshafer_1976 said:
then what you have is an environment where Vince Young is the savior and yet three years down the road the next flavor of the month will come along and of course....be the savior of the franchise.
Click to expand...
Are you under the impression that all the Bush fans have jumped ship, and are now on the Vince Bandwagon?? I'm under the impression most of us are guys who didn't want to waste a pick on a running back. We all understand a number one for MattL just doesn't make sense. Vince is a different story. I believe in spending money on OL/DL. But I see more value in young at #1. I think we'll get some new OL help in the offseason. We're going to have a new offensive system. Everybody is starting at zero. Adding a Quarterback, whether it's Young, or Leinart isn't going to set us back any more. But like I said, trading Carr for Matt doesn't hold any value for me.
[/quote]
gpshafer_1976 said:
Call me sentimental, but I actually like what they got going in Green Bay in terms of fan base: Those guys freeze their rears off to watch EVERY game at Lambeau whether they are a good team or not. Regardless of whether they get who they want or not, they are there to support their team.

If that had been Houston, and Favre had come here, he'd have been booed out of the town after a few incompletions and interceptions.

People need to slow the emotional roller coaster and just let this franchise do its homework and sort out who is best for this TEAM.
Click to expand...

Has Carr been getting booed?? I wasn't aware of that.
 
dat boy yec, thanks for the response and keeping on topic. I can understand your opinion on Carr and the reason you still root for him. There are some very good points in there. Most of them however fall into my catagory called 'Blind Homerism'.

My opinion on Carr is fairly well known to be very negative. But I really don't want to get into the negatives/positives on Carr, that has been debated to nausea on this board. I am very much interested in why some of you die hard Carr supporters do the things you do, and I can understand and respect yours dat boy yec. I don't agree with them, but I can understand them.
 
Why do I support Carr? Have you looked who he's had to play around? Domanick Davis was hurt for half this year, and Jonathan Wells sure had to scare the living daylight out of people. Andre Johnson was hurt also for part of the season, and even when he was healthy you could tell he wasn't 100%. And other than Johnson (who was double teamed for most of the season), we had Corey "Can't Catch" Bradford, Jabar Gaffney, Derrick Armstrong, and Jerome Mathis. Not exactly the most talented wide receiver group around. Oh yeah, our offensive line was probably the worst in the NFL. I mean, we had Victor Riley start at both tackles during the season. Weigert went from tackle to guard. Same for Wade. McKinney didn't play center the whole season. No wonder Carr looked uncomfortable behind that line, I don't blame him.
 
The reason the "Carr supporters" support him, is because other than the few games he missed in year 2, he has played every game since we began. Mostly from his back, and he had 3 years that gradually got better each year. He gets up after each sack, and he plays again. The first year he did just about what Young did at the end of the USC game several times. He scored a lot of touch downs by himself. But more than that, he is a stand up guy, that never gives up. He stands up in the face of disasterous games, and still speaks positively in public. Some of you guys act like everything he does to the media is all he does. You don't have any idea what goes on behind the scenes. He has been at a severe disadvantage since he started and he deserves a chance. I'm ignorant, but name me a QB that came right out of college and started a team and did as well as David has done, been sacked as many times as David has, and is still standing. He deserves the 8 million alone, just for the medical bills he will probably sustain in his old age for the damage that has been done to his body. Up until this season, all you fairweathers weren't crying so loud about Carr. Everyone on this board seems to need a scape goat, and the head of any team is the one who gets it. First Capers, and now that we are rid of him, let's get Carr. Until last Wednesday night, most of this board wanted Reggie Bush,and then wow! See ya to him too. We need guys that can play right now, not sit on the bench and learn. David has proven that, when he has time and coverage, he can get the job done. Is he snakebit, probably, but who wouldn't be. He deserves a chance!!:texflag:
 
edo783 said:
No, he'll posts that makes the point that Carr has the goods and he has been FAILED by the TEAM and the MANAGEMENT. It's easy to make sure someone looks bad by only looking at the bad and ignoring what's good. If we took only your bad test scores from school and ignored that which you did well in....guess what....you would probably look like you were brain dead. That's what your trying to do with Carr. It isn't all good and it isn't all bad and a GREAT deal of the bad had a large amount to do with those who have gone and there is very likely improvement on the horizon.
Click to expand...

...a couple points--first, 2004 was a tale of 2 halves by Carr with the first 7 games very good and the last 9 not good--saying Carr had 3 progressive years is not accurate because he only had 2 and a half such years (39 games less the ones he sat out vs the last 25)

...and, second, I want the management/coaching staff to give everything they can to Carr so that--once and for all-- everyone will know if he is the answer

...and, third, it would be nice if we could build this team more on results and less on excuses
 
Has Carr been getting booed?? I wasn't aware of that.
Click to expand...
yeah, he has been booed several times inside the stadium. Sometimes it is hard to tell who is getting the boo's since there are 11 players there, and sometimes the boo's are directed at the playcalling. But trust me, it has been apparent a few times that the Boo's were directly targeted at CARR.
 
I guess I'm loyal to a default. I love my team and it's very hard for me to knock any players or coaches involved with the Texans. I was all about Dom Capers and the 3-4 defense untill midway through this season and then I jumped on the pink soap bandwagon.... and honestly.. it hurt. I have a lot of respect for David Carr, even though he is a Cali boy. He was with this team since day one and committed, not only his life, but his entire family's life to this team and city. He has consistantly taken beating after beating and I have not heard him say 1 bad thing yet about our former coaches or his team or teammates. I feel Carr has the tools to get the job done.

With all that being said, I LOVE Vince Young. Im not a Texas fan but I had a chance to watch most of UT's games this year. Every game it was Young that won it for them. Even when he struggled he was still the man that made the Longhorns come out with the win. I never thought that VY would go to the draft this year. Now that he has I'm torn. Honestly, I dont know what to do. I almost feel like we owe Carr a shot to prove himself under a new regime but how could we pass on a talent like Young?? It's a tough call and no matter what happens I'll always bleed Texans battle red and Steel blue!
 
I almost feel like we owe Carr a shot to prove himself under a new regime but how could we pass on a talent like Young??
Click to expand...
I'll vote for that myself. I don't take the Vince Young pick to mean that Carr is out from day one, in fact that would be ludicrous. Young gets drafted and sits out at least the first season and learns how to play NFL football, to me is the optimum situation. Carr gets his shot at shutting people like me up about his 'potential' and plays the first year under a completely new HC and system.

If it turns out to be a Drew Brees/ Phillip Rivers scenario, then so be it. I actually would love to see some of Carr's 'Potential' become a reality. It will be a new experience for me, having waited 4 years for it to magically appear already, I would not be totally against 1 more year of Carr under center.

The interesting part of this thread to me is how only one single person bothered to put up any kind of stats to show how good Carr was. Unfortunately the stats only showed how mediocre he was, and THAT was his BEST year.

I love the Texans as much as the next fan. But to root for a player who is doing poorly, be it Carr, Matt Stevens, Marcus Coleman, or Philip Buchanan simply because they are wearing a Texans uniform is ludicrous to me.

thanks for the responses, and for those that did respond with their reasons, I really am sincere in saying thank you. Your reasons hold as much weight for you, I am sure, as mine do for me.

At least now I can say I understand why some of you support Carr.
 
They could just say he sucks let him go, since he is so bad, why hang on to him, because he is a good guy, just asking the Carr haters, why we would hold onto the guy, since he is so bad.
Click to expand...
we hold onto him to allow Vince Young the time to learn how to play in the NFL. Nothing would please me more, or be a more poetic justice type arrangement than to see Carr on the field and knowing that everytime he looked at the sidelines he would see Vince Young standing there, waiting.

Carr has had more than enough time to display some of his so called 'potential'. I for one can't wait for the next 'potential boy' to show up at the QB spot.

and Hulk75, I am fully aware of why YOU support Carr.
 
thegr8fan said:
I for one can't wait for the next 'potential boy' to show up at the QB spot.
Click to expand...

Why do you think Vince is so popular? Because of his potential. Matt Leinart is popular because he is NFL ready.
 
thegr8fan said:
The thing is, we know what one of our problems definitely is---David Carr.

see how rediculous this sounds in the 'serious debate/question' type threads.

lets keep the Vince Young is a God debates in some other thread also.

Come on now, I know that there are ALOT more Carr supporters out there. So why can't some of you die-hard, no matter what, Carr supporters give me a simple answer to the question, like TTF did.

I just want to know why some of you Carr supporters are so......well supportive, no matter how poorly Carr has played in his 4 years at Houston.

Family members, and Carr employee's need not answer, it is quite obvious to even me why YOU would support Carr, irregardless.
Click to expand...



Let me answer like a Carr Supporter i saw him in college he is going to be great our coaching never game him a chance all those fumbles and interception are the lines fault.
 
nunusguy said:
Young has tremendous potential in the NFL: one story I was reading said if he could learn to pass like he runs, he possibly could be the greatest NFL QB ever.
Click to expand...
Yep, and if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle. :rolleyes:

Remember that the NFL is all about the pocket passers.
So, before anyone annoints VY as the next messiah, lets remember just how good a certain Fresno State QB looked on paper his final Collegiate Season in comparison.

Vince Young's Senior Season:
ATT CMP % YDS TD INT
212 325 65.2 3,036 26 10

David Carr's Senior Season:
ATT CMP % YDS TD INT
344 539 64.5 4,839 46 9

Yep, Vince had lots of rushing yards as well...that's great if we were planning on building a "one-of-a-kind" offense just for him. If the plan is to run a "standard" or "West Coast" pocket-passing attack, it's not even close as to who the choice would be on paper.

There's certainly no guarantees that Carr would be a star if they fixed the absolutely horrendous PASS BLOCKING O-Line he's been crippled with.

There's also nothing even remotely certain about Vince Young's NFL potential either.

Domanick Davis can't shoulder a 16-game load by himself, he's just too injury prone, and he's run behind a fairly decent RUN BLOCKING line.

I'd like to see David have to worry about another QB "pushing him" for his starting job, but if that means giving up another potential superstar like Reggie Bush or the myriad trade deals that could be made for the #1 pick, it just doesn't make sense.

Bush looked fairly pedestrian against USC; Vince looked lousy against the Aggies. Nobody's perfect and the opposition only gets tougher from here on out!
 
Let's see, over 3,500 yards, positive td/int, passer rating better than Brady, completion percentage better than Brady all in the 3rd year of a brand new expansion team and in his third year after being beat like a pinata at fat kids birthday. In the first 6 games of 04 he was the 6th ranked QB with a QB rating of over 100. Yup, those are ALL bad things. Did things go south.....you bet...all OVER the team. Couldn't catch, couldn't stop the run, couldn't get to the QB and couldn't hold a lead. Constantly turned turtle the minute we got any sort of lead eventhough the defense couldn't hold water, much less a lead. Did the second half of 2004 and all of 2005 look bad....absolutly, but the TEAM as a whole gave up on the crap that Capers and company were serving up when the intire league figured out what to do and our CRACK coaching staff couldn't figure out how to manage and counteract what was happening. Then when Carr gets the keys to drive he turns it up big time and then our CRACK coaching staff nixes that. Nope the kid hasn't shown squat. Is all perfect...hardly, but there is some real good talent there that has been horribly mismanaged and not supported with a proper cast around him. Do we owe him, IMO, you bet your backside we do. Min of 1-2 years under a new staff. You would be hard pressed to point to another QB that has been this poorly supported by team quality, coaching and management. Make no mistack about it, I am not a Carr appologist, but I also get pissed off when people only say the negative. As I told another poster, if all that was brought up was you worst tests in school and never any of the ones you past....guess what...you would look about as smart as a door stop. That's what a group of people on here are trying to do to further their agenda to discredit so that anyone they support then looks better whether there is any NFL level play to support it or not.
 
Napa Auto Parts said:
Let me answer like a Carr Supporter i saw him in college he is going to be great our coaching never game him a chance all those fumbles and interception are the lines fault.
Click to expand...


Interceptions really aren't a problem with him. His problem is that he doesn't throw more touchdown passes. A lot of QB's would love to have their INT's in the low teens. Brett Favre routinely throws 15-20 interceptions per season. The most that Carr has ever thrown is 15 in his rookie season.
 
edo783 said:
Let's see, over 3,500 yards, positive td/int, passer rating better than Brady, completion percentage better than Brady all in the 3rd year of a brand new expansion team and in his third year after being beat like a pinata at fat kids birthday. In the first 6 games of 04 he was the 6th ranked QB with a QB rating of over 100. Yup, those are ALL bad things. Did things go south.....you bet...all OVER the team. Couldn't catch, couldn't stop the run, couldn't get to the QB and couldn't hold a lead. Constantly turned turtle the minute we got any sort of lead eventhough the defense couldn't hold water, much less a lead. Did the second half of 2004 and all of 2005 look bad....absolutly, but the TEAM as a whole gave up on the crap that Capers and company were serving up when the intire league figured out what to do and our CRACK coaching staff couldn't figure out how to manage and counteract what was happening. Then when Carr gets the keys to drive he turns it up big time and then our CRACK coaching staff nixes that. Nope the kid hasn't shown squat. Is all perfect...hardly, but there is some real good talent there that has been horribly mismanaged and not supported with a proper cast around him. Do we owe him, IMO, you bet your backside we do. Min of 1-2 years under a new staff. You would be hard pressed to point to another QB that has been this poorly supported by team quality, coaching and management.
Click to expand...
.


So basiclly what you are saying its not how he plays as long as he can come out with good stats i see. thats were i went wrong all this time all i wanted was a QB to win games ala Brady but like you said David Carr is better than Brady the stats say so right LMAO who cares about superbowls:brickwall
 
I write this on every Young vs. Carr thread but I'll say it again...

I am tired of waiting for Carr to "come around" or "develope", but I also do acknowledge the setbacks he has had to endure. I was a huge Carr fan. I was an Oilers fan and when they left Houston I couldn't believe it. I had to turn to the Cowboys for a home-state nfl team. When the Texans finally came I was so happy I "hung the moon" on anyone the Texans chose to be its franchise QB. I read all about Carr before the draft and saw his numbers and fell in love with the thought of having him here. But Carr has been killed the past four years being a record breaking QB...IN SACKS. I'd like to give him a way out. I think Carr is good but that's it. Many have said no other QB could perform without a good OL but I offer you all Rich Gannon in a few years ago. He won the MVP and broke QB single season records with most completed passes. And do you know what? The line was so bad that year in the next draft the Raiders felt the need to draft OT Robert Gallery with their #1 pick (I think 2nd or 3rd overall.

I admit this is the exception to the rule but we have paid Carr a ton of money. I don't have his contract info but a #1 overall gets paid a ton. In 4 years he has not led the offense up to our expectations and gotten killed in the meantime. I don't know about you but I don't believe it is a good deal to pay a guy a 7 year deal for him to only produce the in years 5-7 regardless of the issues. If I were a salesman who was hired at a high salary b/c of my past success and when I came on board every tragedy hit me (death, car-wreck, etc.) I would get canned a lot sooner than 4 years of excuses/tragedies. I know Carr's job is bigger than a sales job so please hold off on the lame "How can you compare sales to an NFL QB?" replies. I am only saying if it took 4 years for a manager at your favorite restaurant to get everything up to par at that restaurant, you would no longer be a customer.

The real world rings in. Some of you are patient b/c you feel this is a sport in which every player could be great given the opportunity. But there are those of us who believe that opportunity is great but tragedy and mishaps are life and can happen to anyone. Carr will be good, but somewhere else. Let's give the kid a chance somewhere else and all of you Carr supporters can hold it against us and in the meantime we can move on to our excuses for Vince or Bush or Leinart or Kubiak or Linehan or .... you see what I'm getting at.

I am of the opinion we should trade Carr (or release him) and draft Young. With his speed, he will be more suited to running for his life behind this OL. Kubiak likes to run the ball. With Young, Davis, Morency, and Wells we could have 3 running backs in the backfield at the same time.
 
The Raiders OL wasn't that bad when Gannon won MVP and they went to the Super Bowl. They picked up Robert Gallery because when you get a chance to get an elite tackle like Robert Gallery you don't pass it up.
 
tulexan said:
The Raiders OL wasn't that bad when Gannon won MVP and they went to the Super Bowl. They picked up Robert Gallery because when you get a chance to get an elite tackle like Robert Gallery you don't pass it up.
Click to expand...

Here is the Raider's depth chart for OL in 2002:

OLT 65 SIMS, 74 Stinchcomb, 73 Myles
OLG 76 WISNIEWSKI, 73 Middleton, 65 Sims
C 62 TREU, 74 Stinchcomb
ORG 73 MIDDLETON, 79 Collins, 65 Sims
ORT 72 KENNEDY, 77 Ashmore

The only probowler on that depth chart is Lincoln Kennedy. This OL was riddled with injury and perile (Barrett Robbins was in and out throughout the season and ended up going nuts before the Superbowl). Kennedy made the probowl despite nagging injuries.

So the Raiders had 1 good offensive lineman. The Texans have 1 also. The Raiders didn't give up as many sacks but this could be due to the fact that Gannon threw the ball away when under pressure or actually hit the open man (hence the MVP honors).

Can Carr do this in a west coast offense? I don't know. But neither does Carr and I say lets get another tackling dummy and let Carr go while he is still alive.
 
edo783 said:
Let's see, over 3,500 yards, positive td/int, passer rating better than Brady, completion percentage better than Brady all in the 3rd year of a brand new expansion team and in his third year after being beat like a pinata at fat kids birthday. In the first 6 games of 04 he was the 6th ranked QB with a QB rating of over 100. Yup, those are ALL bad things. Did things go south.....you bet...all OVER the team. Couldn't catch, couldn't stop the run, couldn't get to the QB and couldn't hold a lead. Constantly turned turtle the minute we got any sort of lead eventhough the defense couldn't hold water, much less a lead. Did the second half of 2004 and all of 2005 look bad....absolutly, but the TEAM as a whole gave up on the crap that Capers and company were serving up when the intire league figured out what to do and our CRACK coaching staff couldn't figure out how to manage and counteract what was happening. Then when Carr gets the keys to drive he turns it up big time and then our CRACK coaching staff nixes that. Nope the kid hasn't shown squat. Is all perfect...hardly, but there is some real good talent there that has been horribly mismanaged and not supported with a proper cast around him. Do we owe him, IMO, you bet your backside we do. Min of 1-2 years under a new staff. You would be hard pressed to point to another QB that has been this poorly supported by team quality, coaching and management. Make no mistack about it, I am not a Carr appologist, but I also get pissed off when people only say the negative. As I told another poster, if all that was brought up was you worst tests in school and never any of the ones you past....guess what...you would look about as smart as a door stop. That's what a group of people on here are trying to do to further their agenda to discredit so that anyone they support then looks better whether there is any NFL level play to support it or not.
Click to expand...

You are sooooo right. and I agree with you whole heartedly. But if we're going to waste a pick(pick Bush) I'd just as soon waste it on Young.

And while you're at it, look at that Guy @ JacksonVille. Remember what he did his rookie Season?? He misplaced a guy that has gone on to start for the last three years, the QB that started that Franchise.
 
bubbajaxonbrown said:
Here is the Raider's depth chart for OL in 2002:

OLT 65 SIMS, 74 Stinchcomb, 73 Myles
OLG 76 WISNIEWSKI, 73 Middleton, 65 Sims
C 62 TREU, 74 Stinchcomb
ORG 73 MIDDLETON, 79 Collins, 65 Sims
ORT 72 KENNEDY, 77 Ashmore

The only probowler on that depth chart is Lincoln Kennedy. This OL was riddled with injury and perile (Barrett Robbins was in and out throughout the season and ended up going nuts before the Superbowl). Kennedy made the probowl despite nagging injuries.

So the Raiders had 1 good offensive lineman. The Texans have 1 also. The Raiders didn't give up as many sacks but this could be due to the fact that Gannon threw the ball away when under pressure or actually hit the open man (hence the MVP honors).

Can Carr do this in a west coast offense? I don't know. But neither does Carr and I say lets get another tackling dummy and let Carr go while he is still alive.
Click to expand...


The Raiders O-line from that year didn't collapse into the QB like our line does. They played as a TEAM and protected Gannon pretty well. Our line has a couple guys that you'd say are individually good talents, but the line as a whole doesn't work together to pick up stunts, switch assignments at the line, or help out on double teams. As a result, you see rushers getting into the QB frequently. Some of those result in sacks and some don't. For every sack David Carr has had to endure, he's had about 4 pressures where he got the ball out or scrambled. That stuff doesn't show up in any stat line (except maybe his rushing yards, which are second only to Vick).
 
thegr8fan said:
we hold onto him to allow Vince Young the time to learn how to play in the NFL. Nothing would please me more, or be a more poetic justice type arrangement than to see Carr on the field and knowing that everytime he looked at the sidelines he would see Vince Young standing there, waiting.

Carr has had more than enough time to display some of his so called 'potential'. I for one can't wait for the next 'potential boy' to show up at the QB spot.

and Hulk75, I am fully aware of why YOU support Carr.
Click to expand...


Poetic Justice??? Please..that's putting salt on an open wound and why would Carr do that when there 31 OTHER teams willing to vie for his services?

What I want to see, and this is coming not from a Carr fan but more from a Bush fan, is to see Vince, if drafted by us, come in and play behind that unit we call an offensive line.

In fact, I would like Casserly not to upgrade the line, and let Vince find out what Carr had to go through in 2005.
 
Carr when given time to throw is very accurate. The definition of time to throw being taking a 5 or 7 step drop and being able to step up in the pocket. This also has to occur when we have more than one receiver in the pattern. In this circumstance, he rarely throws bad passes. Of course this circumstance rarely occurs. Many times we went to max protect and reduced the receivers in the pattern. Of course other teams still managed immediate pressure with only 4 pass rushers versus 7 blockers. This left 3 receivers against 7 defensive backs. This does not lead to good offense.
I have read many complaints about his inability to read defenses. Sure he might make some mistakes but ALL quarterbacks do. The most obvious example I can give was Donovan McNabb's interception thrown to Roy Williams that allowed the Cowboys to beat the Eagles.
Many have now jumped on the bandwagon of saying he is not a leader. But they were not saying that after most of the games last year. A leader has to have something to lead. Our offensive schemes were so poor and simplified due to the lack of pass blocking that he had no chance. While I am here - our lack of pass blocking seem to me to be a lack of teamwork more than a lack of skill. Sometimes these guys appeared never to have practiced together. Many times I saw two guys blocking one while another guy came free. Wasn't it the second year when we cut our number of sacks in half ? Why did we abandon the plan -- and bring Pendry on board ? I digress.
Other complaints about Carr - He holds the ball too long and he doesn't look at second receivers. Which is it ? You have to hold the ball longer than a nano second to look at secondary receivers.
I will be convinced Carr will not make an above average NFL quarterback when you see him stepping up to throw the ball and he is still not getting it done. Carr can only dream about the the time Brady, Manning and other successful quarterbacks get to throw the ball.
Yesterday apparently someone did an interview with Dan Reeves. I don't want to quote because I can't remember his exact words. But it went something like David Carr has a lot of talent the surface of which has barely been scratched and he has courage. It was VERY obvious Dan Reeves is recommending to keep David Carr.
 
thegr8fan said:
Nothing would please me more, or be a more poetic justice type arrangement than to see Carr on the field and knowing that everytime he looked at the sidelines he would see Vince Young standing there, waiting.
Click to expand...

Spoken like a really gr8fan. I hope all the Texans fans aren't gr8 like this.
 
I really do not understand why people hang on to the David Carr argument, he needs this, he needs that...YES, we need an O-line but despite that there were still MANY opportunitites over a 4 year span to show his "potential".

Give me a break! This guy has not proven himself, even throwing in all the EXCUSES, you can't be sane and think This guy is Franchise material???

He has pulled the bag over everyone's eye - except me- This guy will turn up to be an average QB that no one will remember in a few years. But the Texas EGO can't admit you made a mistake.. Learn how to correct and move on.



:bag: - David Carr Supporters
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top