Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Pat Kirwan article

L

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I talked to kirwan and ryan on sirius yesterday discussing the mario williams situation. He came on today and said it sparked him to write a article that will be on nfl.com. Basically, he talks about how he can go to aj,smith,daniels,and ryans and without cutting anyone, just converting salary, and create 16m of cap space. The deal he put together was 6yrs 90m with 30m signing bonus. That would leave 10.6m of cap room to do meyers and foster. Just a heads up on how a former gm would handle it.
 
Good stuff. I hope we can find a way to keep them all. Mainly Mario, Foster, and Myers. I'd be okay letting Brisiel walking and us drafting a replacement in the early-mid rounds.
 
leebigeztx said:
I talked to kirwan and ryan on sirius yesterday discussing the mario williams situation. He came on today and said it sparked him to write a article that will be on nfl.com. Basically, he talks about how he can go to aj,smith,daniels,and ryans and without cutting anyone, just converting salary, and create 16m of cap space. The deal he put together was 6yrs 90m with 30m signing bonus. That would leave 10.6m of cap room to do meyers and foster. Just a heads up on how a former gm would handle it.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I've been saying. The upfront bonus and 2-3 years (low salary)guarantee should meet Mario's needs. 6 years is reasonable and new tv money in 2013 makes it all work especially if last year or so is not guaranteed. That takes care of 3 priority needs and cutting Leinert/jj= another $7m+ which could be our draft or Dreesen or go towards Duane Brown extension.
 
76Texan said:
Appreciate the info.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been exchanging e-mails with them for a minute. Pat Kirwan and Gil brandt take guys into the room. They talk about stuff that's bigger than just personel. I've had sirius since like 03 and have been calling in for that long. Great football info and not the local,propped up bs. Very objective.
 
It works, as long as Williams' agent isn't dead set on him becoming the highest paid defender. I've always felt the Texans would make a very generous offer. Just not the best offer. Hopefully, that will be good enough.
 
Yeah but you forgot that we need about $5 million or so set aside to pay for the rookies we draft. All in all it sounds good, but he'd probably need a smaller cap number for 2012 to allow space for our draft picks.
 
badboy said:
Exactly what I've been saying. The upfront bonus and 2-3 years (low salary)guarantee should meet Mario's needs. 6 years is reasonable and new tv money in 2013 makes it all work especially if last year or so is not guaranteed. That takes care of 3 priority needs and cutting Leinert/jj= another $7m+ which could be our draft or Dreesen or go towards Duane Brown extension.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he will have a salary breakdown. He did it all without a cut. If they cut walters,jones,cody,leinhart,that's 12m right there. The texans could do the restructure of the 4, sign mario,foster,and meyers, then use the xtra 12m to do brown and cushing to deals.the players they lose, they will have to draft or lower level free agens.
 
Mr teX said:
** patiently waits for dale to come in with a reason why this couldn't happen **
Click to expand...

Of course it could happen.... I'd only comment on why it shouldn't happen....

because he's not worth it. Notice that there is no comment on how Schaub, Quin, Barwin, Brown get extended... not to mention who/how we replace Cody and Jones
 
leebigeztx said:
I talked to kirwan and ryan on sirius yesterday discussing the mario williams situation. He came on today and said it sparked him to write a article that will be on nfl.com. Basically, he talks about how he can go to aj,smith,daniels,and ryans and without cutting anyone, just converting salary, and create 16m of cap space. The deal he put together was 6yrs 90m with 30m signing bonus. That would leave 10.6m of cap room to do meyers and foster. Just a heads up on how a former gm would handle it.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's more than Julius Peppers' contract value and it includes a big signing bonus! I wonder who's been saying that's the type of money he will be offered in free agency...? :kitten:

Even with those roster moves, I don't like the idea of shelling out 15 million a year for Mario. It just seems like we would be overpaying at that point. I really think he's worth closer to 10 a year, but market price will probably be in the 15 a year range. I also would prefer retaining Myers, Brisiel, Rackers and locking down Foster longterm over getting Mario alone.
 
cbs1507 said:
Yeah but you forgot that we need about $5 million or so set aside to pay for the rookies we draft. All in all it sounds good, but he'd probably need a smaller cap number for 2012 to allow space for our draft picks.
Click to expand...

Its 3m. Its actually less the lower u pick. Jacoby can pay the rookies with his salary.
 
dalemurphy said:
Of course it could happen.... I'd only comment on why it shouldn't happen....

because he's not worth it. Notice that there is no comment on how Schaub, Quin, Barwin, Brown get extended... not to mention who/how we replace Cody and Jones
Click to expand...

The conversation I have with kirwan about contracts come to this. If the players age is 27 or younger and not a rb, you do signing bonus. Why? Because when its spread out over 6 yrs, he has a good chance of fullfilling the full contract.

Its almost laughable you brought up the replacements for jones and cody. Cody was a cheap deal free agent who has a - rating vs the run andpass and jones is a 3rd rd er. Those guys are easy to replace either via the draft or low level signings.

As I mentioned later, they could cut some dead weight and use that to sign brown 1st,cushing 2nd, barwin 3rd.
 
I think we need to cheat -- wink, wink, nod, nod,

"We'll pick you up next year when the cap jumps..."

"Gonna have to trust Mr. McNair here..."

I bet Pittsburgh is doing it with Mike Wallace.
 
Playoffs said:
I think we need to cheat -- wink, wink, nod, nod,

"We'll pick you up next year when the cap jumps..."

"Gonna have to trust Mr. McNair here..."

I bet Pittsburgh is doing it with Mike Wallace.
Click to expand...

Pitt is getting ready to revamp their whole team to make room for wallace.


Ward just got cut...expect Farrior, Kiesel & Hampton to restructure or meet the ax too.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Wow, that's more than Julius Peppers' contract value and it includes a big signing bonus! I wonder who's been saying that's the type of money he will be offered in free agency...? :kitten:

Even with those roster moves, I don't like the idea of shelling out 15 million a year for Mario. It just seems like we would be overpaying at that point. I really think he's worth closer to 10 a year, but market price will probably be in the 15 a year range. I also would prefer retaining Myers, Brisiel, Rackers and locking down Foster longterm over getting Mario alone.
Click to expand...
The first two years could be $6-8million guaranteed ; bump in year 3-4 and big bump last two non-guaranteed. You can cut him then or be smiling at what a wise investment you made in a huge sack guy.
 
dalemurphy said:
Of course it could happen.... I'd only comment on why it shouldn't happen....

because he's not worth it. Notice that there is no comment on how Schaub, Quin, Barwin, Brown get extended... not to mention who/how we replace Cody and Jones
Click to expand...

If we make it through this year with out any real major casualties, i think we'll be ok. Aside from that, worry about 2013 when 2013 gets here.

but.....with the impending salary cap increase, schaub definitely not commanding more than what he's scheduled to make in 2012 (8 mil?) & the fact that you can save a few mil by cutting rackers this year....Okoye's money finally coming off our cap.. i think we'll be ok to deal with guys next year.
 
leebigeztx said:
The conversation I have with kirwan about contracts come to this. If the players age is 27 or younger and not a rb, you do signing bonus. Why? Because when its spread out over 6 yrs, he has a good chance of fullfilling the full contract.

Its almost laughable you brought up the replacements for jones and cody. Cody was a cheap deal free agent who has a - rating vs the run andpass and jones is a 3rd rd er. Those guys are easy to replace either via the draft or low level signings.

As I mentioned later, they could cut some dead weight and use that to sign brown 1st,cushing 2nd, barwin 3rd.
Click to expand...

Cody has outperformed his contract which counts roughly $3 million against the cap. Jones' number is similar. Do you propose replacing both players with rookie UDFAs? If not, whomever you replace them with will count against the cap. I don't like the idea of replacing my starting NT with someone with zero market value. I don't want the draft to simply be about replacing proven veterans with unproven mid and late round picks based on need.... but, that's just me.
 
dalemurphy said:
Cody has outperformed his contract which counts roughly $3 million against the cap. Jones' number is similar. Do you propose replacing both players with rookie UDFAs? If not, whomever you replace them with will count against the cap. I don't like the idea of replacing my starting NT with someone with zero market value. I don't want the draft to simply be about replacing proven veterans with unproven mid and late round picks based on need.... but, that's just me.
Click to expand...

Did u say cody outperformed his contract? What game are u watching?.They could cut cody tommorrow and the only thing they would miss is his videos. He's easily replaced and doesn't have a market if released. They could bring him back at vet min and give him snap bonuses to fill it out. Hustle guy,that's it. Not to mention he's been a negative.
 
leebigeztx said:
Did u say cody outperformed his contract? What game are u watching?.They could cut cody tommorrow and the only thing they would miss is his videos. He's easily replaced and doesn't have a market if released. They could bring him back at vet min and give him snap bonuses to fill it out. Hustle guy,that's it. Not to mention he's been a negative.
Click to expand...

Well, this highlights the fact that you and I clearly don't see the same thing when we sit down to watch football. Cody isn't spectacular, certainly. However, I have no clue how someone could've watched the defense play this season and conclude that the "only thing they would miss is his videos"? Wow!

And, that "he's been a negative"? In 2011... really?
 
Dutchrudder said:
Wow, that's more than Julius Peppers' contract value and it includes a big signing bonus! I wonder who's been saying that's the type of money he will be offered in free agency...? :kitten:

Even with those roster moves, I don't like the idea of shelling out 15 million a year for Mario. It just seems like we would be overpaying at that point. I really think he's worth closer to 10 a year, but market price will probably be in the 15 a year range. I also would prefer retaining Myers, Brisiel, Rackers and locking down Foster longterm over getting Mario alone.
Click to expand...

I don't either. I'd like Mario to be with the Texans for a long time to come. However, I think if we go too far over $14M, it may make things difficult for the Texans in the future. I don't know how far over "too far" over is.

My ceiling is $14M. Julius Peppers contract. I'd really like to see them sign him closer to $12M
 
badboy said:
The first two years could be $6-8million guaranteed ; bump in year 3-4 and big bump last two non-guaranteed. You can cut him then or be smiling at what a wise investment you made in a huge sack guy.
Click to expand...

With a signing bonus right?

Personally, I think $6-8M is a lot of money. But Mario just finished a 6 year stint where he made $9M/yr. I don't know how you are going to sell him on taking a pay cut. He may love the Texans, Houston, & the Bullpen.... but this is business.

Now, it's totally possible to offer him a $25M (or $30M) signing bonus over 6 years & a $4-$6M salary. His cap number would be between $8M & $12M dollars. However some time in the future, that cap number is going to have to jump to the high teens..... not good for our future.

Of course at that time we can ask him to restructure or get cut..... then we'll have dead money....

:toropalm:
 
dalemurphy said:
Cody has outperformed his contract which counts roughly $3 million against the cap. Jones' number is similar. Do you propose replacing both players with rookie UDFAs? If not, whomever you replace them with will count against the cap. I don't like the idea of replacing my starting NT with someone with zero market value. I don't want the draft to simply be about replacing proven veterans with unproven mid and late round picks based on need.... but, that's just me.
Click to expand...

Mitchell can take Cody's spot. Our draft pick/FA could play behind him. If they outperform Mitchell, they win the spot.

I like Jacoby, I don't think I've been coy about that, but for the money we're spending.... doesn't make sense to me. Either he or KDub needs to go & we can start running late round flyers & FAs who can make it through training camp through the 3 & 4 WRs like every other team to find that diamond in the rough.... Jacoby Ford, Antonio Brown, Victor Cruz, etc...
 
dalemurphy said:
Well, this highlights the fact that you and I clearly don't see the same thing when we sit down to watch football. Cody isn't spectacular, certainly. However, I have no clue how someone could've watched the defense play this season and conclude that the "only thing they would miss is his videos"? Wow!

And, that "he's been a negative"? In 2011... really?
Click to expand...

cody has been solid but at the same time hes still JAG....

mario, while you may feel is overrated, is still one of the premier players of his position in the league. id rather overpay mario some and keep him around rather than letting him go for nothing just to play moneyball with a few meh guys...

nonetheless im still standing by my opinion that this 'salary cap crisis' is nothing more than an offseason timefiller and we wont lose any of our important FA's that we want to keep
 
thunderkyss said:
Mitchell can take Cody's spot. Our draft pick/FA could play behind him. If they outperform Mitchell, they win the spot.

I like Jacoby, I don't think I've been coy about that, but for the money we're spending.... doesn't make sense to me. Either he or KDub needs to go & we can start running late round flyers & FAs who can make it through training camp through the 3 & 4 WRs like every other team to find that diamond in the rough.... Jacoby Ford, Antonio Brown, Victor Cruz, etc...
Click to expand...

......lestar jean :cowboy1:
 
thunderkyss said:
Mitchell can take Cody's spot. Our draft pick/FA could play behind him. If they outperform Mitchell, they win the spot.

I like Jacoby, I don't think I've been coy about that, but for the money we're spending.... doesn't make sense to me. Either he or KDub needs to go & we can start running late round flyers & FAs who can make it through training camp through the 3 & 4 WRs like every other team to find that diamond in the rough.... Jacoby Ford, Antonio Brown, Victor Cruz, etc...
Click to expand...

Do you see this?: See how the Mario signing whittles away our depth. Not only with them not being able to upgrade at WR2/3 or NT in free agency, the proposed Mario deal has using getting worse at NT and WR, in addition to spending draft picks to on replacements instead of BPA. Not a fan of this scenario at all!
 
dalemurphy said:
Do you see this?: See how the Mario signing whittles away our depth. Not only with them not being able to upgrade at WR2/3 or NT in free agency, the proposed Mario deal has using getting worse at NT and WR, in addition to spending draft picks to on replacements instead of BPA. Not a fan of this scenario at all!
Click to expand...

Really?

That's not at all what I said. I like Cody, but I think Mitchell plays just as well, if not a hair better. I'm making room for a rookie to come in & earn a spot on the team..... don't see any reason to keep 3 NTs on the roster.

I like Jacoby, but we shouldn't pay $3+ million for a 500 yard 5 TD receiver, which we have with Jacoby/KDubya.....

I want to go strong - trade out of the first & draft 2 WRs in the second- for our #2 WR in the draft.

My opinion for making these moves should happen regardless what we do with Mario.
 
leebigeztx said:
I talked to kirwan and ryan on sirius yesterday discussing the mario williams situation. He came on today and said it sparked him to write a article that will be on nfl.com. Basically, he talks about how he can go to aj,smith,daniels,and ryans and without cutting anyone, just converting salary, and create 16m of cap space. The deal he put together was 6yrs 90m with 30m signing bonus. That would leave 10.6m of cap room to do meyers and foster. Just a heads up on how a former gm would handle it.
Click to expand...

Do you seriously think Mario is worth that money? Just because it could be done doesn't mean we should do it. Does he say how we are going to be able to sign all our FA's next year? Imagine what FA's we could add with that money.

Strapping us up against the cap to keep Mario is nearsighted and flat out stupid!
 
thunderkyss said:
Really?

That's not at all what I said. I like Cody, but I think Mitchell plays just as well, if not a hair better. I'm making room for a rookie to come in & earn a spot on the team..... don't see any reason to keep 3 NTs on the roster.

I like Jacoby, but we shouldn't pay $3+ million for a 500 yard 5 TD receiver, which we have with Jacoby/KDubya.....

I want to go strong - trade out of the first & draft 2 WRs in the second- for our #2 WR in the draft.

My opinion for making these moves should happen regardless what we do with Mario.
Click to expand...


Anyway you slice it, you are cutting our best NT in order to pay Mario. You are cutting our 3rd best WR in order to pay Mario. Then, you are spending draft picks on certain positions because you needed to make room for Mario. By the way, that $5 million only gets you part way there.

I'd simply not sign Mario and add a good WR, perhaps a better NT, maybe upgrade at CB, sign all our free agents and begin extending guys like Brown, Barwin, etc... Then, other than adding depth at OLB, we would have a complete team with great depth.
 
dalemurphy said:
Anyway you slice it, you are cutting our best NT in order to pay Mario. You are cutting our 3rd best WR in order to pay Mario. Then, you are spending draft picks on certain positions because you needed to make room for Mario. By the way, that $5 million only gets you part way there.

I'd simply not sign Mario and add a good WR, perhaps a better NT, maybe upgrade at CB, sign all our free agents and begin extending guys like Brown, Barwin, etc... Then, other than adding depth at OLB, we would have a complete team with great depth.
Click to expand...

You do understand we can only keep 53 players on our roster.

I'm not cutting our best NT... I think Mitchell is just as good. I'm not cutting or 3rd best WR..... I'm culling underperformers.

Whether Mario is here or not, we need to upgrade our WR position, we're going to have to draft some body.

I am also of the opinion that the Texans have more cap room than is being reported. I just don't see 44 players on our roster that add up to $113M.

There's a thread on this site, someone has what appears to be 2012 salary numbers for our 44 players who will still be under contract after March 13 (as of now). It looks like we have $101M tied up, leaving us $23M (if the cap is $124M) plus the $1M we can roll over from 2011 & the $3M we can borrow from 2013..... $27M..... we can sign Mario, Foster, & Myers for $18M (cap number) & leaving $5M to chase FA & sign our draft picks.

Dropping Cody, Jjones/KDub, and restructuring Demeco, & any other contract is just good business.
 
leebigeztx said:
Did u say cody outperformed his contract? What game are u watching?.They could cut cody tommorrow and the only thing they would miss is his videos. He's easily replaced and doesn't have a market if released. They could bring him back at vet min and give him snap bonuses to fill it out. Hustle guy,that's it. Not to mention he's been a negative.
Click to expand...

We had one of ther best defenses in the league. Cody was never going to work according to basically everyone on the planet (who doesnt understand Wades system) but yet we still were at the top. Would we have been #1 all year and never given up any points with Ngata? No. Cody did fine and actually was very impressive for being an undersized interior NT in a new system with no training camp. What game were you watching? I was watching the one where our defense was bad-ass.
 
thunderkyss said:
You do understand we can only keep 53 players on our roster.

I'm not cutting our best NT... I think Mitchell is just as good. I'm not cutting or 3rd best WR..... I'm culling underperformers.

Whether Mario is here or not, we need to upgrade our WR position, we're going to have to draft some body.

Dropping Cody, Jjones/KDub, and restructuring Demeco, & any other contract is just good business.
Click to expand...

If Mario isn't here, we have real money to spend on a proven WR.

To say Mitchell may become as good or better than Cody is fine. To say he was as good last year is foolish. Again, this is what I don't understand: we had a great defense last season after Mario went down. According to any metric you would like to use, the defense was better after he was injured than it was before. So, now, you want to keep Mario and let go of players that actually contributed heavily to the defense's success. Cody isn't over the hill and he's relatively cheap... It just doesn't make sense. This isn't the NBA. Star players, outside of the QB position, usually don't make the impact that X-Box playing fans think they do.
 
ckhouston said:
We had one of ther best defenses in the league. Cody was never going to work according to basically everyone on the planet (who doesnt understand Wades system) but yet we still were at the top. Would we have been #1 all year and never given up any points with Ngata? No. Cody did fine and actually was very impressive for being an undersized interior NT in a new system with no training camp. What game were you watching? I was watching the one where our defense was bad-ass.
Click to expand...

They covered for cody by run blitzing in his gap. When you look at the texans run defense, look at the ypc especially up the middle.

Dalemurphy, cody is average in every sense of the word. There are a couple of guys, mike martin and alaameda taama who can replace cody right now. The washigton kid is a 2nd rd er and the michigan kid will be 2nd/3rd rd. I don't think I even have to address walter and jones replacement.

The point of the article is they can do it without sacrificing the future of the franchise. If I told you the texans could sign mario,foster,meyers and extend cushing and brown and all you had to do is cut lienhart,jj,cody,and walters, are u still against it?
 
dalemurphy said:
If Mario isn't here, we have real money to spend on a proven WR.

To say Mitchell may become as good or better than Cody is fine. To say he was as good last year is foolish. Again, this is what I don't understand: we had a great defense last season after Mario went down. According to any metric you would like to use, the defense was better after he was injured than it was before. So, now, you want to keep Mario and let go of players that actually contributed heavily to the defense's success. Cody isn't over the hill and he's relatively cheap... It just doesn't make sense. This isn't the NBA. Star players, outside of the QB position, usually don't make the impact that X-Box playing fans think they do.
Click to expand...

I swear some of you Mario haters over-value everyone that is not Mario.

Shaun Cody career stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/shauncody/2506376/profile

Earl Mitchell career stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/earlmitchell/496822/profile

Mitchell has more tackles and just as many sacks last year. He has more sacks in the past 2 seasons than Cody in the past 6. Let's just say we did cut Cody. If that was all that stood between us and signing Mario then I'm down.

But seriously do you think the loss of Shaun Cody is that devastating? We could draft a Kendall Reyes or my favorite Alameda Ta’amu (everybody needs a Polynesian on their defense ;)). We could get them in the 2nd round and they would be cheaper than what Cody would cost us based on the new rookie pay scale. Are you doubting that we could draft a guy that can get us 23 tackles and 1 sack at the NT position?
 
leebigeztx said:
They covered for cody by run blitzing in his gap. When you look at the texans run defense, look at the ypc especially up the middle.

Dalemurphy, cody is average in every sense of the word. There are a couple of guys, mike martin and alaameda taama who can replace cody right now. The washigton kid is a 2nd rd er and the michigan kid will be 2nd/3rd rd. I don't think I even have to address walter and jones replacement.

The point of the article is they can do it without sacrificing the future of the franchise. If I told you the texans could sign mario,foster,meyers and extend cushing and brown and all you had to do is cut lienhart,jj,cody,and walters, are u still against it?
Click to expand...

It depends on the future ramifications. I don't want the Texans to create issues for themselves heading into 2013 and 2014.

I could care less about Leinart. Cuttling Cody is problematic but a consideration. Cutting Walter is a big mistake. I would not do it considering our lack of veteran wide receivers. Our offense is predicated on rhythm, blocking, and continuity. While I would love a more explosive option at WR, I don't want to lose him in a year when we have nothing reliable behind him. I don't mind dumping JJ but it is impossible to cut he and Walter, leaving Lester Jean as the Texans defacto #2 WR heading into the draft. NO thanks!
 
dalemurphy said:
If Mario isn't here, we have real money to spend on a proven WR.
Click to expand...
True.... true.

We would also have enough "real" money to chase a proven WR if we were paying league minimum for Wide recievers who produce like two league minimum WRs. That's less than a million dollars. We could & should have $3M max tied up in the receivers we have, instead we have over $7M.... That could be a proven WR plus a couple of low round flyers.

dalemurphy said:
To say Mitchell may become as good or better than Cody is fine. To say he was as good last year is foolish. Again, this is what I don't understand: we had a great defense last season after Mario went down. According to any metric you would like to use, the defense was better after he was injured than it was before. So, now, you want to keep Mario and let go of players that actually contributed heavily to the defense's success. Cody isn't over the hill and he's relatively cheap... It just doesn't make sense. This isn't the NBA. Star players, outside of the QB position, usually don't make the impact that X-Box playing fans think they do.
Click to expand...

Keep Cody if you want. But Mitchell played on that "great" defense as well as Cody..... probably played as many snaps, or very close. We overpaid Cody to lure him to the great sport city of Houston. Just like we overpaid for Antonio Smth. Again, we should be paying league minimum for the production we get out of Cody.

& as good as this defense was in 2011, we get better by adding a dynamic, freak of an athlete versatile enough to play OLB in a 3-4 or DE in a 4-3, just like Wade likes to play it. We can go to FA & try to find that guy, who'll work in this system, in this locker room, with this coach, in this city. We can go to the draft & find that raw athlete who's game can translate to the NFL, who'll work in this system, in this locker room, with this coach, in this city, who knows how to be a pro.

Or, we can be thankful for the bird in our hand. Offer him a fair deal, negotiate out of good faith. If it happens, it happens. If not.... plan B.
 
cbs1507 said:
I swear some of you Mario haters over-value everyone that is not Mario.

Shaun Cody career stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/shauncody/2506376/profile

Earl Mitchell career stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/earlmitchell/496822/profile

Mitchell has more tackles and just as many sacks last year. He has more sacks in the past 2 seasons than Cody in the past 6. Let's just say we did cut Cody. If that was all that stood between us and signing Mario then I'm down.

But seriously do you think the loss of Shaun Cody is that devastating? We could draft a Kendall Reyes or my favorite Alameda Ta’amu (everybody needs a Polynesian on their defense ;)). We could get them in the 2nd round and they would be cheaper than what Cody would cost us based on the new rookie pay scale. Are you doubting that we could draft a guy that can get us 23 tackles and 1 sack at the NT position?
Click to expand...


You are going to use the stats of a NT to determine his worth? Wow!

The loss of Cody, in itself, isn't devastating. What is devastating is dumping effective players in their prime in order to create cap space for one player who hasn't finished a season healthy since 2008. Football rosters are 53 men deep for a reason. Also, for every player you cut to create cap space, you force the Texans to replace in the draft. That's not the best way to run a draft, IMO.

I'd rather the Texans enter the draft without a glaring need and have all their draft picks on best available player.
 
thunderkyss said:
True.... true.

We would also have enough "real" money to chase a proven WR if we were paying league minimum for Wide recievers who produce like two league minimum WRs. That's less than a million dollars. We could & should have $3M max tied up in the receivers we have, instead we have over $7M.... That could be a proven WR plus a couple of low round flyers.



Keep Cody if you want. But Mitchell played on that "great" defense as well as Cody..... probably played as many snaps, or very close. We overpaid Cody to lure him to the great sport city of Houston. Just like we overpaid for Antonio Smth. Again, we should be paying league minimum for the production we get out of Cody.

& as good as this defense was in 2011, we get better by adding a dynamic, freak of an athlete versatile enough to play OLB in a 3-4 or DE in a 4-3, just like Wade likes to play it. We can go to FA & try to find that guy, who'll work in this system, in this locker room, with this coach, in this city. We can go to the draft & find that raw athlete who's game can translate to the NFL, who'll work in this system, in this locker room, with this coach, in this city, who knows how to be a pro.

Or, we can be thankful for the bird in our hand. Offer him a fair deal, negotiate out of good faith. If it happens, it happens. If not.... plan B.
Click to expand...


We got tremendous value for Antonio Smith. Your perception at the time may have been that we overpaid for him, however he has performed up to that contract without a doubt.

Cody is working on his 2nd contract with Houston. We re-signed him last year for more money that his original deal because the coaching staff thinks highly of his play.

Cody played twice as many snaps as Mitchell. I like Mitchell. However, Cody + Mitchell is almost definitely much better than Mitchell + a cheap alternative.

We wouldn't be adding Mario. He was already on the team last year. How much did his presence improve the team in 2011? How about 2010?
 
dalemurphy said:
You are going to use the stats of a NT to determine his worth? Wow!

The loss of Cody, in itself, isn't devastating. What is devastating is dumping effective players in their prime in order to create cap space for one player who hasn't finished a season healthy since 2008. Football rosters are 53 men deep for a reason. Also, for every player you cut to create cap space, you force the Texans to replace in the draft. That's not the best way to run a draft, IMO.

I'd rather the Texans enter the draft without a glaring need and have all their draft picks on best available player.
Click to expand...

He doesn't demand (or even at least occasionally occupy) double teams. In fact teams double our DE's instead of him on passing situations. He is overpaid for the production he gives us. Like leebigeztx said we have to run blitz just to occupy blocks and stop the run. A rookie (much cheaper) could do that for us.
 
Last edited:
dalemurphy said:
The loss of Cody, in itself, isn't devastating. What is devastating is dumping effective players in their prime in order to create cap space for one player who hasn't finished a season healthy since 2008. Football rosters are 53 men deep for a reason. Also, for every player you cut to create cap space, you force the Texans to replace in the draft. That's not the best way to run a draft, IMO.

I'd rather the Texans enter the draft without a glaring need and have all their draft picks on best available player.
Click to expand...

If you let Mario Walk, you have to address outside pass rusher. It's silly to not think so. I believe you should address that position with our first pick, or our 2nd at the latest. Some people may think we can find that player in this draft in the 3rd or lower. But to not see the need....... but think we "have to" replace Cody, you really need to slow down with the 'shrooms....

Another thing, most "draftniks" on this board (& some of the professional media guys) have identified WR as our most pressing need & NT as another. Look at the mocks, they have us taking either a WR in the first & a DT in the second, or a DT in the first & a WR in the second.

While our needs may not be glaring, they're still there.
 
Williams will be expensive, but here's a plan that could work for TexansBy*Pat Kirwan
*| NFL Insider

There is less than a week until the deadline for teams to use the franchise tag on players. For some teams, it's a no brainer. For others it is a difficult decision.
The latter group includes the*Houston Texans
. For most of the offseason it has been assumed that Houston simply can't tag*Mario Williams
*because of the cap expense. Tagging him would be close to impossible but getting him signed to a deal could be attainable.
Williams made $18.326 million last year and whether he is viewed as a defensive end (franchise tag price of $10.6 million) or outside linebacker (franchise tag $8.8 million) it doesn't matter because he qualifies for 120 percent of his 2011 salary because it is higher than the franchise tag. That requires $22 million of salary cap space. As soon as Williams signs the franchise offer it is guaranteed.
The Texans have $4.77 million of cap space as of Feb. 29. Tagging him is impossible unless they dump a considerable number of high-priced players, weakening the team. Signing him to a long-term deal is possible and I will show you a few options Houston could consider to keep the 27-year-old Williams in a Texans uniform.

The team also has to find a way to re-sign center*Chris Myers
*and restricted free-agent running back*Arian Foster
. It is no easy task but it can be done. It will take a lot of cash, somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 million, but if the Texans believe they are close to a Super Bowl this isn't the time to go backward in the personnel department. A team in a rebuilding situation or with an aging squad should not consider this method.
First, you can forget going to*Matt Schaub
*for cap relief because he is in the last year of his deal and there is no way to spread a bonus out. Asking him to do a contract extension might be too much with the price of quarterbacks still going up so ignore him for the time being.
Before the Texans cut any players to make this work they could talk to four veterans --*Andre Johnson
,Johnathan Joseph
,*Owen Daniels
,*Antonio Smith
*-- about converting salary to signing bonus without adding any years to their existing contracts. I would assume that all four would be willing to take cash now instead of during the season. All have multiple years left on their contracts and all four should be in the Texans' plans at least for the length of their present contracts.
•*Johnson is scheduled to make $6.5 million this season and has five years left on his deal. Convert $5 million of his 2012 salary to signing bonus and for cap purposes spread the bonus out over the five years remaining and it gives the Texans $4 million of salary-cap space right now.
•*Joseph is scheduled to make $7.25 million this season and has four years left on his deal. Convert $6 million of his 2012 salary into signing bonus and spread it out over the four years and it gives the Texans another $4.5 million of cap space.
•*Daniels is scheduled to make $3.5 million this year and has three years left on his deal. Convert $2.5 million of his salary to signing bonus and spread it out over the three years and it gives the Texans $1.66 million of cap space.
•*Smith is scheduled to make $5.5 million this year and has two years left on his contract. Convert $4 million of it to signing bonus and spread it over the two seasons and it gives the Texans $2 million of salary cap space.

Those four contract maneuvers create a total of $12.16 million of cap space. Add that to the $4.77 million of existing space and the Texans have $16.93 million of space to work with to keep their players.
First stop: Mario Williams. Since Williams knows the team can't afford the franchise tag and if he gets to free agency he should get a contract close to*Julius Peppers'
*deal that averages $14 million a year, the Texans have to get to the real numbers. The right deal might be six years for $90 million with a $30 million signing bonus and a $1 million salary in the first year. That means Williams sees $31 million the first year.
The cap charge for that deal is only $6 million in 2012: Divide the number of years (6) into the bonus ($30 million) to get a yearly proration of $5 million plus a $1 million salary. The second-year salary could be $3 million, which means he sees $34 million in the first two years. That is a $17 million average and a second-year cap charge of $8 million, which is tolerable. A third season at a $7 million salary means a three-year average of $13.6 million, or slightly above Peppers' three-year average. The cap charge for the third year would be $12 million.


That deal leaves $10.66 million of cap space in 2012, enough to sign Myers, Foster and draft picks. The salary cap is low right now but there will be growth in the next few years and the Texans will be able to absorb the contract growth.
There's always a risk when handing out big bonuses instead of unguaranteed salaries but the Texans are close to the top and could be legitimate Super Bowl contenders. The Colts are rebuilding, the Jaguars are starting a second-year quarterback and the Titans may be doing the same. The time is now for the Houston Texas.
*

Here is the article. Hope my cut and paste from phone worked ok.
 
leebigeztx said:
Williams will be expensive, but here's a plan that could work for TexansBy*Pat Kirwan
*| NFL Insider

There is less than a week until the deadline for teams to use the franchise tag on players. For some teams, it's a no brainer. For others it is a difficult decision.
The latter group includes the*Houston Texans
. For most of the offseason it has been assumed that Houston simply can't tag*Mario Williams
*because of the cap expense. Tagging him would be close to impossible but getting him signed to a deal could be attainable.
Williams made $18.326 million last year and whether he is viewed as a defensive end (franchise tag price of $10.6 million) or outside linebacker (franchise tag $8.8 million) it doesn't matter because he qualifies for 120 percent of his 2011 salary because it is higher than the franchise tag. That requires $22 million of salary cap space. As soon as Williams signs the franchise offer it is guaranteed.
The Texans have $4.77 million of cap space as of Feb. 29. Tagging him is impossible unless they dump a considerable number of high-priced players, weakening the team. Signing him to a long-term deal is possible and I will show you a few options Houston could consider to keep the 27-year-old Williams in a Texans uniform.

The team also has to find a way to re-sign center*Chris Myers
*and restricted free-agent running back*Arian Foster
. It is no easy task but it can be done. It will take a lot of cash, somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 million, but if the Texans believe they are close to a Super Bowl this isn't the time to go backward in the personnel department. A team in a rebuilding situation or with an aging squad should not consider this method.
First, you can forget going to*Matt Schaub
*for cap relief because he is in the last year of his deal and there is no way to spread a bonus out. Asking him to do a contract extension might be too much with the price of quarterbacks still going up so ignore him for the time being.
Before the Texans cut any players to make this work they could talk to four veterans --*Andre Johnson
,Johnathan Joseph
,*Owen Daniels
,*Antonio Smith
*-- about converting salary to signing bonus without adding any years to their existing contracts. I would assume that all four would be willing to take cash now instead of during the season. All have multiple years left on their contracts and all four should be in the Texans' plans at least for the length of their present contracts.
•*Johnson is scheduled to make $6.5 million this season and has five years left on his deal. Convert $5 million of his 2012 salary to signing bonus and for cap purposes spread the bonus out over the five years remaining and it gives the Texans $4 million of salary-cap space right now.
•*Joseph is scheduled to make $7.25 million this season and has four years left on his deal. Convert $6 million of his 2012 salary into signing bonus and spread it out over the four years and it gives the Texans another $4.5 million of cap space.
•*Daniels is scheduled to make $3.5 million this year and has three years left on his deal. Convert $2.5 million of his salary to signing bonus and spread it out over the three years and it gives the Texans $1.66 million of cap space.
•*Smith is scheduled to make $5.5 million this year and has two years left on his contract. Convert $4 million of it to signing bonus and spread it over the two seasons and it gives the Texans $2 million of salary cap space.

Those four contract maneuvers create a total of $12.16 million of cap space. Add that to the $4.77 million of existing space and the Texans have $16.93 million of space to work with to keep their players.
First stop: Mario Williams. Since Williams knows the team can't afford the franchise tag and if he gets to free agency he should get a contract close to*Julius Peppers'
*deal that averages $14 million a year, the Texans have to get to the real numbers. The right deal might be six years for $90 million with a $30 million signing bonus and a $1 million salary in the first year. That means Williams sees $31 million the first year.
The cap charge for that deal is only $6 million in 2012: Divide the number of years (6) into the bonus ($30 million) to get a yearly proration of $5 million plus a $1 million salary. The second-year salary could be $3 million, which means he sees $34 million in the first two years. That is a $17 million average and a second-year cap charge of $8 million, which is tolerable. A third season at a $7 million salary means a three-year average of $13.6 million, or slightly above Peppers' three-year average. The cap charge for the third year would be $12 million.


That deal leaves $10.66 million of cap space in 2012, enough to sign Myers, Foster and draft picks. The salary cap is low right now but there will be growth in the next few years and the Texans will be able to absorb the contract growth.
There's always a risk when handing out big bonuses instead of unguaranteed salaries but the Texans are close to the top and could be legitimate Super Bowl contenders. The Colts are rebuilding, the Jaguars are starting a second-year quarterback and the Titans may be doing the same. The time is now for the Houston Texas.
*

Here is the article. Hope my cut and paste from phone worked ok.
Click to expand...

Stupid Texans front office. We should fire them all and hire Kirwin since he knows more about our salary cap they they do! :mcnugget: Why isn't this guy working contracts for some NFL team?

To pay Mario that kind of money is EFFEN STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can any intelligent person not see that if that money is attainable, this team would be better off using it to add multiple players instead of spending it on a player not worthy of such a large chunk of the cap space?

Mario is a good player, a very good player! He is NOT a game changer! He does NOT dominate nor take over games. Someone please point out one game where he truely dominated besides the the monday night game against Denver. That kind of money should only be spent on a single player when he is a game changing dominating presence.

We already have one of the top defenses in the entire NFL without him. Use that money to add more depth and strengthen the team. It will pay off in the long run.

Or you know just give Mario the money and next year when he or another important player goes down and we don't have any depth you can all cry about how unlucky we are.
 
I expect McNair to ok a big push this off season to put team into Super Bowl consideration.
 
badboy said:
I expect McNair to ok a big push this off season to put team into Super Bowl consideration.
Click to expand...

There are going to be some big names cut soon by other teams to get under the cap. Lots of older but still good players will make this FA market very affordable. Thats where we need to be looking instead of blowing our wad on one player. Lots of those type players are going to want to play for a team like the Texans.
 
mussop said:
There are going to be some big names cut soon by other teams to get under the cap. Lots of older but still good players will make this FA market very affordable. Thats where we need to be looking instead of blowing our wad on one player. Lots of those type players are going to want to play for a team like the Texans.
Click to expand...

^^^^
This

Injury prone player
 
mussop said:
There are going to be some big names cut soon by other teams to get under the cap. Lots of older but still good players will make this FA market very affordable. Thats where we need to be looking instead of blowing our wad on one player. Lots of those type players are going to want to play for a team like the Texans.
Click to expand...
You must have read some of the many posts over the last two years saying I want to move Mario. I don't think anyone pre-dated my first comments. The difference between me and some others is I recognize his value. I began my talking about a trade with New England & was told repeatedly he did not fit. Now many talking heads say NE is perfect fit.

Having said that, I also believe McNair will offer a deal that Mario accepts even if fans don't like it. I am not as optimistic as you on free agency.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top