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Texans and Refs

O

Oz Texan

Noob
I was just wondering if I am the only one who seems to think this way.
Are the Texans playing agiste the opposing team and the refs every week?

The reason i say this is that we seem to get some really shady calls or no calls every week. This week was

1: the incomplete but complete pass. The Ravens receiver did not catch that long past th e ball clearly bounces as he goes down(yes i was screaming for a challenge also but that s another topic) looking at the reaplay ther Ref was less than 4 yards away looking right at it.

2:The non call on the 4th and 1 facemask against Foster that would have placed us at the 5 yard line.

3:The his foot didnt hit the ground call. That one pisses me off for more than one reason first his foot hit the ground. second that challenge wasnt for the catch it was for yardage. ( im not sure of the rule on challenging so i that one i will let go kinda)

4:Oh and I missed one!!! The not called intentional grounding against Flacco early in the game ie was getting sacked and he just flung it out from his body, went no where near the line of scrimmage he was not out of the pocket and there were no potential receivers anywhere near him! this was the most blatent intentional grounding i have ever seen and it was not called.

There are lots of others that i remember like phantom defensless receiver calls, No calls on Hits to Schaubs knees, Blatent holding calls that dont get called against the OLmen against Mario, I dont remember specific games but i can remember going WTF weekly on Refs calling against us and not calling against our opponent. I was not on a conspiracy train before but after today .....its just way to damn often for my taste.

Just my thoughts
 
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What is the motive? Why are the league and its officials conspiring against the Texans?

I don't believe a conspiracy exists. Fans of every team could find plays like that just as Texans fans do.
 
I don't want to contribute too much to what I view as a sour grapes thread (no offense) but can someone explain to me why Flacco was not flagged for intentional grounding on their first drive? He was dead to rights and threw the ball to no one in particular and there wasn't even a hint of a flag. He didn't even throw it like a normal pass, he just shoveled it out of his hands. Did they view it as some kind of tuck rule incident?

Having said that I doubt all the right calls in the worlds would have made that game much more pleasant from our standpoint.
 
Jackie Chiles said:
I don't want to contribute too much to what I view as a sour grapes thread (no offense) but can someone explain to me why Flacco was not flagged for intentional grounding on their first drive? He was dead to rights and threw the ball to no one in particular and there wasn't even a hint of a flag. He didn't even throw it like a normal pass, he just shoveled it out of his hands. Did they view it as some kind of tuck rule incident?

Having said that I doubt all the right calls in the worlds would have made that game much more pleasant from our standpoint.
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That was a blatant intentional grounding. The tuck rule wouldn't apply because if I remember correctly he flung the ball like a pitch. I couldn't believe they didn't call that and that the refs didn't even huddle up to discuss it. Its outrageous calls like that that give people the feeling (myself included at times) that the league is out to screw us. It was like last week's Raiders games, there was at least 2 times I remember where a Raider DB would literally tackle one of our receivers while the ball is in the air. If thats not pass interference isn't there such a thing as no contact beyond 5 yards? I guess tackling a receiver isn't the normal little hand contact they usually call but COME ON! It makes me even more mad every time a ref throws a flag on a pass interference call, then one ref calls a huddle or the opposing coach starts barking for them to change the call and their discussion always ends up with them picking up the flag. WHY DID YOU THROW THE FLAG TO BEGIN WITH?!
 
Runner said:
What is the motive? Why are the league and its officials conspiring against the Texans?

I don't believe a conspiracy exists. Fans of every team could find plays like that just as Texans fans do.
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I understand where you are coming from, it just seems to go against us or not for us alot more than other teams.
 
Just to be clear up front, I'm not passing any judgment on anyone in this thread, but after examining a wide variety of conspiracy theories across a broad spectrum of subjects over the course of many years I've come to the conclusion that conspiracy theories are the domain of losers who can't face reality.

Having said that, I don't think it's crazy to expect that some teams get reputations as poorly disciplined or dirty and thus get those kinds of calls more often than other teams.

Referees are both fallible and are also prone to falling victim to a whole host of preconceptions.
 
OP, I agree with you. Kubes and company routinely send complaints to the league regarding bad calls or no calls. The zebras are taking it out on the texans.
 
TexansFanatic said:
Just to be clear up front, I'm not passing any judgment on anyone in this thread, but after examining a wide variety of conspiracy theories across a broad spectrum of subjects over the course of many years I've come to the conclusion that conspiracy theories are the domain of losers who can't face reality.

Having said that, I don't think it's crazy to expect that some teams get reputations as poorly disciplined or dirty and thus get those kinds of calls more often than other teams.

Referees are fallible and prone to falling victim to a whole host of preconceptions.
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Well said but just look at the calls specifically today, they were not called correctly and were all blatent when looked at. the Foster non call is the only one I can say that could have been missed. cause i didnt even see it till the showed the replay from adifferent angle. And theres no need for name calling.

Also when did we get the thre rep for being poorly disciplined or dirty?
 
AND last week if u watch On the TD pass by Campbell he ran a good yard and a half past the line of scrimmage then threw the ball for a TD. I have not seen that mentioned anywhere but i watched it over and over and he was clearly past the line of scrimmage when he threw the TD pass.

Anyone remember that ?
 
EllisUnit said:
AND last week if u watch On the TD pass by Campbell he ran a good yard and a half past the line of scrimmage then threw the ball for a TD. I have not seen that mentioned anywhere but i watched it over and over and he was clearly past the line of scrimmage when he threw the TD pass.

Anyone remember that ?
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I remember the play and watched a replay several times and will have to respectfully disagree. I thought he threw the ball a step before he crossed the line of scrimmage.
 
Jackie Chiles said:
I remember the play and watched a replay several times and will have to respectfully disagree. I thought he threw the ball a step before he crossed the line of scrimmage.
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i just watched it again and he was on his fron foot a good yard in front of the line of scrimmage.
 
Oz Texan said:
Also when did we get the thre rep for being poorly disciplined or dirty?
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Those were just generalities applicable to various teams in the past.

The Shula-led Dolphins of the seventies, for instance, had such a reputation for discipline and perfection that they would rarely get penalized. And not simply because they were actually that good but also because it was what was expected of them.
 
The Cush said:
I honestly felt like after Al Davis's death, the NFL really wanted a feel good Raiders win
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So basically the feeling here is that the fix is in? The NFL isn't a fair competition, but some teams are marked for defeat before the games start? Is it just the Texans are are there other teams on the league's hit list?
 
The Cush said:
I honestly felt like after Al Davis's death, the NFL really wanted a feel good Raiders win
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Well, you can't pin that on the refs considering the Raiders nearly doubled the Texans 6 penalties for 50 yards with 11 of their own for 89.

And the refs didn't exactly force Schaub to throw a pick on the final play when the Raiders had ten men on the field.
 
Runner said:
So basically the feeling here is that the fix is in? The NFL isn't a fair competition, but some teams are marked for defeat before the games start? Is it just the Texans are are there other teams on the league's hit list?
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While im not saying the fix is in, I'm just saying what I see. If you dont feel the same I'm all good with that.
 
The Texans from Day 1 has been on the hit list...ever since the expansion draft pick of Tony Boselli, the refs have been against us....its sickening I know but yet it favors other teams and yet nobody really recognizes it cuz usually they are rooting for the "other" team...just sickening...but we are used to it cuz it happens year after year, but I'M NOT and IT NEEDS TO STOP :aggressive:
 
I'm not one to blame football losses on refs (refs have way more impact in basketball or baseball), and I'm not doing it here because the main failures were our offense and secondary....but todays officiating was really bad. Not sure why. But it was really bad. Intentional grounding, the personal fouls (esp. the 2nd)....just terrible.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
I'm not one to blame football losses on refs (refs have way more impact in basketball or baseball), and I'm not doing it here because the main failures were our offense and secondary....but todays officiating was really bad. Not sure why. But it was really bad. Intentional grounding, the personal fouls (esp. the 2nd)....just terrible.
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Ok im gonna jump in here and say I dont quite agree here. In baseball and basket ball the ref cant take 6 points away from a team or a long completion or run. NFL refs have much more impact on a game than any other ref in sports.
 
The irony of this thread and the mention of the Raiders is that for decades the Raiders have been one of the most penalized teams in the NFL.

And the Raiders have always perpetuated the mythology that the NFL is out to get them because of Al Davis' renegade reputation.

But somehow, the Raiders have also managed to be one of the NFL's winningest franchises.

The Texans are victims of nothing and nobody but their own ineptitude and mismanagement. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
 
TexansFanatic said:
The irony of this thread and the mention of the Raiders is that for decades the Raiders have been one of the most penalized teams in the NFL.

And the Raiders have always perpetuated the mythology that the NFL is out to get them because of Al Davis' renegade reputation.

But somehow, the Raiders have also managed to be one of the NFL's winningest franchises.

The Texans are victims of nothing and nobody but their own ineptitude and mismanagement. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
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So you are saying that all the calls I mentioned here are the Texans fault? I was no way saying that the Texans lost because of the calls. What I am saying is they did not help our team, they way the are supposed to if called correctly.
 
TexansFanatic said:
Well, you can't pin that on the refs considering the Raiders nearly doubled the Texans 6 penalties for 50 yards with 11 of their own for 89.

And the refs didn't exactly force Schaub to throw a pick on the final play when the Raiders had ten men on the field.
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It's more so the blatantly obvious no calls. I deleted the game off my DVR so I'm going with this play off memory but Schaub throws the ball about 20 yards downfield to Jacoby. Before the ball gets to the spot the cornerback grabs Jacoby by the waist and throws him to the ground as the ball falls about 1.5 yards short, obvious penalty of some sort there and one of the refs throws a flag. The camera cuts to Hue Jackson screaming at the refs, the refs huddle up and decide to pick up the flag saying there was no foul? Even when they show the replay the announcers are "Let's see if there's pass interference. Huh, yea that's pretty obvious. Don't really know what the refs were seeing there". The ref closest to the play throws a flag, then gets talked out of it by someone further away on the field? That right there just doesn't make any sense
 
Oz Texan said:
So you are saying that all the calls I mentioned here are the Texans fault? I was no way saying that the Texans lost because of the calls. What I am saying is they did not help our team, they way the are supposed to if called.
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What I'm saying is, quite simply, bad calls are part of the game.

The good teams win in spite of them.

Period.

And just as an aside, I saw Duane Brown flagrantly holding on at least one play today and he wasn't called for it. So the fallibility of the refs worked for us on at least one play today.
 
Oz Texan said:
So you are saying that all the calls I mentioned here are the Texans fault? I was no way saying that the Texans lost because of the calls. What I am saying is they did not help our team, they way the are supposed to if called correctly.
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The Texans lost this game on their own and should be held accountable for that. Just like how the refs have horrible officiating games they should be held accountable for that as well
 
TexansFanatic said:
...

And just as an aside, I saw Duane Brown flagrantly holding on at least one play and he wasn't called for it. So the fallibility of the refs worked for us on at least one play today.
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I'd bet Ravens fans weren't happy when the refs picked up the flag on the Rice face mask call either.
 
The Cush said:
The Texans lost this game on their own and should be held accountable for that. Just like how the refs have horrible officiating games they should be held accountable for that as well
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This i talk about this all the time. But it seems that it never happens. We never hear about a fine for refs or refs sitting out a game for being bad at their jobs.
 
Runner said:
I'd bet Ravens fans weren't happy when the refs picked up the flag on the Rice face mask call either.
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That flag was picked up for the right reason and explained by the ref, Joseph did grab the face mask but he let go immediatly there was no twist. That is the rule there you can touch the facemask as long as you dont use it to pull the carrier to the ground or hold it and twist.
 
Oz Texan said:
This i talk about this all the time. But it seems that it never happens. We never hear about a fine for refs or refs sitting out a game for being bad at their jobs.
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The NFL must run a Bob McNair style management system. The more you fail and continue to exhibit incompetence, the more job security you have..right Gary Kubiak?
 
Runner said:
I'd bet Ravens fans weren't happy when the refs picked up the flag on the Rice face mask call either.
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yeah he let go, he didnt take him down with it, like the no call on foster being thrown around with a big hand holding his whole face mask, where was that penalty ?
 
Oz Texan said:
That flag was picked up for the right reason and explained by the ref, Joseph did grab the face mask but he let go immediatly there was no twist. That is the rule there you can touch the facemask as long as you dont use it to pull the carrier to the ground or hold it and twist.
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Many people on here would have gone apeshit if the teams had been reversed on that play.
 
Oz Texan said:
That flag was picked up for the right reason and explained by the ref, Joseph did grab the face mask but he let go immediatly there was no twist. That is the rule there you can touch the facemask as long as you dont use it to pull the carrier to the ground or hold it and twist.
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I asked what you thought Ravens fans would think, not what the rule was. If that exact same thing had happened against the Texans, I doubt this would be the interpretation. My point is fans see things from their own perspective.
 
Runner said:
I asked what you thought Ravens fans would think, not what the rule was. If that exact same thing had happened against the Texans, I doubt this would be the interpretation. My point is fans see things from their own perspective.
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It is what it is, you can't get mad at the refs when they get the call right. If Joseph would have yanked it and turned his head and they still picked it up, then they have every right to be mad because they wouldn't have gotten the call right. It's a matter of instances where they don't, maybe they didn't see the Terrance Cody face mask but how do you justify not calling grounding on Flacco? That play is just wide open for everyone to see. Of course they will miss holding here and there but there is no excuse to get the call wrong on something so obvious especially when its on the QB
 
Wow every time i see the non intentional ground call i get even more pissed off. Flacco pretty much heaved it forward as he was going down with no eligible receivers in sight. How do the refs miss that?

Also huge fail by the Texans replay staff to not challenge the long ball to Torrey Smith. The ball clearly hit the ground.
 
I don't think its a conspiracy. I do think the officiating in all sports has gone downhill. I see no reason why every play can't be looked at for obvious penalties (foster face mask) and reviewed. I'm tired of hearing of the vaunted "human element". WTF is that? I don't want the "human element" I want the "correct call". That intentional grounding, holy crap. That was the very definition of "intentional grounding". He was throwing the ball as he was under the control of a defender to avoid a sack. I did see the bomb you talked about and I looked at my GF and said "that's not a catch, the ball hits the ground and moves". I don't know about the last one. It was a catch but it wasn't clearly +yardage.

I tell my son that you have to play till the whistle stops and you don't blame the refs but it is getting bad. The NFL is a multi billion dollar league. They pay athletes billions of dollars. Why can't they spend a little extra money to get the calls right? More refs on the field? I watch other games and it isn't just the Texans, it isn't any one team... it is ALL of them. The officials are affecting the outcome of the game and that is criminal. That is the very reason I don't watch the NBA anymore. In the NBA what officiating team you get affects the out come of the game way too much. When I buy tickets I pay to see people do things I am not capable of, I do not pay to see people dressed like zebras screw up calls, I could do that from my living room.

Mike
 
Naiirb said:
Wow every time i see the non intentional ground call i get even more pissed off. Flacco pretty much heaved it forward as he was going down with no eligible receivers in sight. How do the refs miss that?

Also huge fail by the Texans replay staff to not challenge the long ball to Torrey Smith. The ball clearly hit the ground.
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You can tell that Baltimore was all over that replay with the speed in which they got the next play off. Run up to the line, simple running play, nothing fancy. If the roles had been reversed I can just see us trotting up, getting in formation, Schaub looks around maybe motions a TE and (if we even get that far) a red flag flies from the opposing sideline. Schaub and Kubiak exchange confused looks.
 
TexansFanatic said:
What I'm saying is, quite simply, bad calls are part of the game.

The good teams win in spite of them.

Period.

And just as an aside, I saw Duane Brown flagrantly holding on at least one play today and he wasn't called for it. So the fallibility of the refs worked for us on at least one play today.
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See, I just have a problem with that mantra. That is excusing poor officiating. Go back to the TD catch in the back of the end zone vs the Steelers. That was a catch, no question about it. To say "good teams overcome bad calls" when you take points off of the board (or put them on the board) a team can't overcome that. A drive killing (or drive making) penalty is what it is. That catch by Smith should not have been a catch. No question that changed the game. That bad calls are made on both sides is immaterial. It is as if what happens on the field of play is not really that important. I don't like when we get away with one, I feel dirty. I don't like when the other team gets away with one, I feel cheated. How someone can say "meh, you just have to play the game no matter how well or poorly the game is officiated...."

My son plays soccer. This weekend they had two goals called back. One was for the "quarter". The rule states that the ref won't call the quarter while one team is in possession with a chance to score. Right before a kid on my son's team kicked the ball from the '18 (and scored, top shelf no way the keeper could have stopped it) she blew the whistle. The only reason there is a "quarter" is so that they can substitute. The second goal, the other team threw the ball in illegally. (Lifted his back leg) The same kid put one touch on the ball and scored. After he put the first touch (right before he shot) she blew the whistle and gave them "a redo". I don't like redo's as it is kids old enough to know how to throw the ball in (3rd-4th graders) but to take the ball away from a team who has advanced to score and give it back to the offending team? Seriously? My son's team lost 3-1. Of course its little league and nowhere near as important but in any one game you're only going to see 4 or 5 goals scored total. Kind of the same ratio as football. If you take 33% of those away... Of course I explained to my son that you don't complain to the refs and you let the coaches handle it... but if I am (seemingly) not allowed to score a goal then how do I play to "win".

Mike
 
Texanmike said:
See, I just have a problem with that mantra. That is excusing poor officiating.
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No, sir.

I'm sorry about what happened in your son's soccer game and I don't mean to belittle how that must have felt. But let's not confuse the professionalism or integrity of the refs at your son's soccer game with what we see week in and week out at NFL games. These games are watched by millions of people with dozens of camera angles and, yes, there are STILL poor calls. But not so many that anyone should feel justified in feeling victimized in a loss.

Games are filled with successful plays and failed plays. Good calls and bad calls.

Make more successful plays than there are failed plays and bad calls and you'll win.

Again, sorry about your son's soccer game, but in professional sports you're paid to perform and you are to expect some bad breaks and bad calls. The champions overcome them.

Losers cling to excuses. Champions don't.
 
Oz Texan said:
Ok im gonna jump in here and say I dont quite agree here. In baseball and basket ball the ref cant take 6 points away from a team or a long completion or run. NFL refs have much more impact on a game than any other ref in sports.
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Yeah but two quick phantom fouls and a star player is forced to sit. What happens then? Balls and strikes are part of every single play in a game.
 
TexansFanatic said:
No, sir.

I'm sorry about what happened in your son's soccer game and I don't mean to belittle how that must have felt. But let's not confuse the professionalism or integrity of the refs at your son's soccer game with what we see week in and week out at NFL games. These games are watched by millions of people with dozens of camera angles and, yes, there are STILL poor calls. But not so many that anyone should feel justified in feeling victimized in a loss.

Games are filled with successful plays and failed plays. Good calls and bad calls.

Make more successful plays than there are failed plays and bad calls and you'll win.

Again, sorry about your son's soccer game, but in professional sports you're paid to perform and you are to expect some bad breaks and bad calls. The champions overcome them.

Losers cling to excuses. Champions don't.
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Still. There are rules to the game. If the game is played outside of those rules it affects the outcome of the game. You're right about the millions of fans etc. Imagine if the IRS just missed a reduction? Is it up to you to "make better investments"? Of course not. Of course if the IRS misses a deduction and fines you for tax evasion it gets appealed etc. I know bad calls will happen but that doesn't justify them. It is as if it is ok for the refs to screw up. Do you remember the game I'm talking about? Renfro? When you miss a call that takes away points? When the refs make the biggest play of the game it is a problem.

I'll give you another example from soccer. The hand of God goal by Marodonna. Argentina beat England 2-1. One of Argentina's goals was scored and it was clearly a handball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfgYnP99doM

In a game in which each team might have as few as 10 possessions it is unacceptable for 2 or 3 of the possessions to end by a bad call. To say anything else is just stupid. As a player do you "play through it"? Sure. As a coach do you excuse a loss by a bad call? Of course not. Is it idiotic to suggest that we should just accept it? Yes.

Mike
 
Mike Periera, former head of officials said on Twitter that it was definitely intentional grounding and that Jones had two feet down.

Weird stuff happens in football games, especially on the road.
 
I'm sorry. In general, and in no way am I speaking on this game specifically, (have to clarify because you know people are going to twist the words) I'm sick of the idea that if you're a good team you can overcome poor officiating.

Sometimes, the calls do matter. Whether it's situational, something that leads to something else.... whatever. You think the Kings should have just "overcome " the corrupted officiating in Game 6 of the 2002 WCF? Of course not.
 
I think it goes back to the NFL wanted this team in LA, but couldn't get anyone to step up. So they have a little ill-will towards us.

They aren't gonna outright cheat us with the calls, but we never seem to come out on top on the questionable calls, or important situtations.

I am probably way off, but it sure does seem that way too often.
 
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