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Recovering Barwin slated for key role in 3-4

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
http://prod.www.texans.clubs.nfl.co...e-in-3-4/8e959f33-9262-4575-8474-f976303d29ab
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The last time Connor Barwin was on the field at Reliant Stadium, it wasn’t a pretty sight. He was on his back writhing in pain, his right ankle dangling from his leg a way right ankles aren’t meant to dangle.

That was Week 1 of last season, and it’s a far cry from where Barwin is now. Almost fully recovered from that gruesome injury, Barwin was back in Houston on Monday to check in with the Texans’ medical staff. He has spent the offseason rehabbing at the University of Cincinnati, lifting weights and running with the UC football team while taking classes toward his degree.

“It’s going really well,” Barwin said of his rehab. “I’ve been running for six weeks now, and it’s getting better every week. I think (in) another month, two months, I’ll be full-go. The strength’s almost there. There’s just a little bit at the top end that I can tell is not quite 100 percent yet, and that’s normal.”

If Barwin does make a full recovery by the start of May, that’ll give him plenty of time to regain his speed and explosiveness by the start of the 2011 season.

That’s a good thing, because the Texans have big plans for their 2009 second-round pick. Barwin, who will be an outside linebacker in Wade Phillips’ 3-4 defense, was primed for a breakout season in 2010 before he was injured in the first quarter against the Colts on Sept. 12.

“To be honest with you, people have no idea how big of an injury that was for our team,” Texans coach Gary Kubiak said. “We had big expectations for Connor. Our defense had built a bunch of packages for him going into the season, and we lose him before the first half of the first game. It’s funny: It wasn’t talked about very much as we went through the season as we struggled on defense, but I can tell you today it was huge.

“We have high expectations for him. He’s a very big part of the future of this franchise, and of Wade’s defense also.”

In 2009, Barwin led all rookie defensive ends with 4.5 sacks and was a standout performer for the Texans on special teams. He bulked up significantly in the offseason that followed in the hopes of becoming an every-down player.

“He had made big strides during the offseason and during training camp,” defensive line coach Bill Kollar said. “We really saw him getting better, playing stronger, the whole works, and then to end up doing what he did in that first game really turned out to be pretty disheartening. We were figuring that he’d really give us a lot of good pass rush last year, and when we lost him in the first game, it really ended up hurting us quite a bit. So we’re hoping that he’s back at full-go this year.

“He’s moving to outside linebacker and then he’ll be a defensive end in nickel situations rushing the passer, but we hope that he can get back and make those big strides that we were hoping for last year.”

Barwin’s athleticism and quickness make him a natural fit as a 3-4 outside linebacker. He was a walk-on basketball player at Cincinnati and played tight end for his first three seasons in college. As a senior, he moved to defensive end and set an NCAA record for first-year defensive players with 12 sacks.

Barwin wowed NFL scouts at the 2009 Senior Bowl, where he worked out at tight end and defensive end. He also put on a show at the Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, running a 4.66 in the 40-yard dash and posting a vertical jump of 40.5 inches.

“The guy’s really got outstanding movement, very fluid and stuff, and he’s a smart guy, so I don’t think for him it’ll be much of a transition,” Kollar said. “It always takes a little bit of time to get it when you’re playing a new position and learning new stuff, but I don’t think he’ll have a problem at all.”

Barwin does have some experience standing up and dropping into coverage – “at Cincinnati a little bit,” in some games as a rookie and in practice last year before he got hurt. He knows there’s a learning curve ahead, but he’s “extremely excited” about moving to his new position and playing under Phillips.

“This is a huge opportunity for me,” he said. “I’m going to make sure I do everything I can this offseason to be ready to do what I’m asked to do in this defense. I honestly can’t wait to get started. It’s something that is just a huge opportunity for me, to be playing outside linebacker. That’s what a lot of people feel fits my skill set better, so hopefully those people are right.”

Once Barwin is medically cleared, he plans to resume the rigorous boxing training that he did last offseason. For now, it’s all rehab – and two more weeks of upper-level history classes – until his ankle and calf are back to 100 percent.

“I can’t say enough about how much we’re counting on him, but the key right now is him getting back to total health,” Kubiak said. “He’s not quite there yet; it’s still going to take a few more months. But he’s been working at it. He works hard at what he does, works hard in the classroom, loves to play. I’m looking forward to him coming back.”
 
My only thought here is I hope Connar has a full recovery ? An if he does, I doubt that he realizes it this year, maybe in 2012 ?
 
i like his quickness and he seems to have a nose for the ball. i think he will make a great OLB in our 3-4. Hopefully he still has all the tools he did before the injury.
 
I agree that losing Barwin was huge for our team and if Kubiak ever came onto this board, he would've known that all of us knew how bad this impacted our team. It was obvious in the Indy game itself. Manning had a tough time with our defense.

However, if Barwin was so huge for us last year and we knew we had specific packages for him, why in the world did we not get another player that filled his skill set and have a valid backup for him in the event of an injury. Connor was a second year player, and if he could pick up that assignment, even the lowest costing veteran and/or rookie who has the same intangibles as Barwin would've been a super pick up for our team that would've proven valuable. What did we do though? We tried to put square pegs in round holes and asked Rick Smith to find a player or two.
 
The guy in this years Draft who's comparable to Barwin is Ryan Kerrigan,
except he's got a much longer and more impressive resume from his time at Purdue. But about same size, same rep for work ethic, same quicks off the edge.
 
I agree that losing Barwin was huge for our team and if Kubiak ever came onto this board, he would've known that all of us knew how bad this impacted our team. It was obvious in the Indy game itself. Manning had a tough time with our defense.

However, if Barwin was so huge for us last year and we knew we had specific packages for him, why in the world did we not get another player that filled his skill set and have a valid backup for him in the event of an injury. Connor was a second year player, and if he could pick up that assignment, even the lowest costing veteran and/or rookie who has the same intangibles as Barwin would've been a super pick up for our team that would've proven valuable. What did we do though? We tried to put square pegs in round holes and asked Rick Smith to find a player or two.

If I recall weren't they planning on using him as a 3-4 OLB in some packages last year? It really didn't surprise me that Houston didn't have another DE/OLB hybrid like Barwin is capable of being.
 
The guy in this years Draft who's comparable to Barwin is Ryan Kerrigan,
except he's got a much longer and more impressive resume from his time at Purdue. But about same size, same rep for work ethic, same quicks off the edge.

Actually few had Barwin's workout and without looking at others yet , we may have our stud already here . We need his partner in the sack business ... a hammer .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75418&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57020&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/rating...OLB&draftyear=2011&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC
 
I agree that losing Barwin was huge for our team and if Kubiak ever came onto this board, he would've known that all of us knew how bad this impacted our team. It was obvious in the Indy game itself. Manning had a tough time with our defense.

However, if Barwin was so huge for us last year and we knew we had specific packages for him, why in the world did we not get another player that filled his skill set and have a valid backup for him in the event of an injury. Connor was a second year player, and if he could pick up that assignment, even the lowest costing veteran and/or rookie who has the same intangibles as Barwin would've been a super pick up for our team that would've proven valuable. What did we do though? We tried to put square pegs in round holes and asked Rick Smith to find a player or two.

Exactly! They kept Jesse Nading as his primary backup... Other than white skin, I'm not sure they share any other characteristics... Worse, not only did they not address the position adequately in the off-season, but they decided to keep Nading instead of Jamison (who may have been effective in that role) for reasons that defy understanding.
 
Exactly! They kept Jesse Nading as his primary backup... Other than white skin, I'm not sure they share any other characteristics... Worse, not only did they not address the position adequately in the off-season, but they decided to keep Nading instead of Jamison (who may have been effective in that role) for reasons that defy understanding.

I think it was two different things:

1. Nading played behind Barwin in packages that require a Jack, a stand up guy who moves all over the place. Actually, Nading had played that role even before we drafted Barwin.

2. At the time Barwin came down, the Texans probably thought they can use a couple of old dogs in Ogunleye and Denney.
They probably thought they can stash Jamison away and see what was left in the tank for those vets.
Not that we agreed with the FO.
 
I think it was two different things:

1. Nading played behind Barwin in packages that require a Jack, a stand up guy who moves all over the place. Actually, Nading had played that role even before we drafted Barwin.

2. At the time Barwin came down, the Texans probably thought they can use a couple of old dogs in Ogunleye and Denney.
They probably thought they can stash Jamison away and see what was left in the tank for those vets.
Not that we agreed with the FO.

I think they over-valued Nading's special teams roles and undervalued the need for actual playmakers. In '09, Nading was slightly ahead of Jamison on the depth chart also... though, it was quite clear that one was a potential playmaker and the other was a warm body.

Wade has already expressed interest in Jamison transitioning outside in his 3-4. Clearly Wade gets it... I'm encouraged by the off-season, so far, because there seems to be a general shift away from these untalented players they have been relying on from both sides of the ball: Kasey Studdard, Tim Bulman, Eugene Wilson, Nading, etc...
 
Are we really lamenting keeping Nading over Jamison?

If you want to find fault in not signing a capable replacement for Barwin, look no further than the nickle and diming of Schobel.
 
Are we really lamenting keeping Nading over Jamison?

If you want to find fault in not signing a capable replacement for Barwin, look no further than the nickle and diming of Schobel.

I disagree. Schobel was out of shape and ask for a lot of money. Any regret regarding Schobel has more to do with the decision not to take care of Mario's injury in July.
 
I hope and really expect the Texans to draft atleast 2 OLBs next month, with
their first pick most likely being a guy at that position. We may also need lots of help in the defensive backfield, but I think OLB is even more of a need ?
Lets face it, there's uncertainty about Barwin recovering fully or at a minimum recovering fully in 2011 ? And then there's the issue of his ability to play in pass coverage as an OLB, though as a former basketball player you'd think he's got the skills/athleticism to succeed in coving receivers ?
 
I hope and really expect the Texans to draft atleast 2 OLBs next month, with
their first pick most likely being a guy at that position. We may also need lots of help in the defensive backfield, but I think OLB is even more of a need ?
Lets face it, there's uncertainty about Barwin recovering fully or at a minimum recovering fully in 2011 ? And then there's the issue of his ability to play in pass coverage as an OLB, though as a former basketball player you'd think he's got the skills/athleticism to succeed in coving receivers ?


The coverage skill requirements of a 3-4 OLB are so far much greater than their basketball brethren. This article should answer your question. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Scouting-Linebackers.html
 
Schobel was out of shape and ask for a lot of money.
What are you basing this on?

The only information I have ever heard come out about the contract negotiations was that they agreed on a price and then Smith came back and wanted it pro-rated, at which point things fell through.
 
What are you basing this on?

The only information I have ever heard come out about the contract negotiations was that they agreed on a price and then Smith came back and wanted it pro-rated, at which point things fell through.

No need to add a guy (Schobel) who Brady said was the DE he hated to face. Because he was always in Brady's face.
 
I disagree. Schobel was out of shape and ask for a lot of money. Any regret regarding Schobel has more to do with the decision not to take care of Mario's injury in July.

Plus, picking up Mark Anderson when we did, made Schobel a moot point.
 
What are you basing this on?

The only information I have ever heard come out about the contract negotiations was that they agreed on a price and then Smith came back and wanted it pro-rated, at which point things fell through.

Schobel admitted he was out of shape... I think he was asking for $8 million for the season.. We're 6 months removed from it, so I don't recall the exact details. I do know that he was out of shape and not interested in participating in training camp and preseason. That's enough for me to say "no".
 
Straight from the horse's mouth - draw whatever conclusion you will (most unnecessary comment ever).

"It’s late (in the signing process), and I’m not in the best of shape. (But) the bottom line is that we couldn’t come to an agreement,” Schobel said Tuesday from his home in Columbus. “I think they saw me for what I am and not for what I can be.

“I’d gotten heavy, but I’ve lost weight. I’m still probably 10 pounds away from being at my best. It would have taken me another week or two to get into (playing) shape"

link
 
Schobel admitted he was out of shape... I think he was asking for $8 million for the season.. We're 6 months removed from it, so I don't recall the exact details. I do know that he was out of shape and not interested in participating in training camp and preseason. That's enough for me to say "no".

He was two weeks of conditioning away from playing, by his own admission. I guess that's "out of shape." Still nothing to back up your contention that he was asking for too much money.

Fact remains that the Texans had a guy willing and able to replace Barwin and decided to nickle and dime him instead.

Not saying Aaron Schobel is the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, but he's certainly a microcosm of it.
 
He was two weeks of conditioning away from playing, by his own admission. I guess that's "out of shape." Still nothing to back up your contention that he was asking for too much money.

Fact remains that the Texans had a guy willing and able to replace Barwin and decided to nickle and dime him instead.

Not saying Aaron Schobel is the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, but he's certainly a microcosm of it.

Just because a guy says he's two weeks out of shape doesn't mean that he just needs a couple of weeks to get ready. The telling part of that quote to me was "they saw me as I am" and not "as I could be."

To me, it sounded like his heart really just wasn't in it. I don't think that Schobel was going to make any difference other than taking up a spot that someone younger and in better shape should have gotten.

And all the stories we were hearing at the time made it sound like Schobel wanted to be paid almost as much as he had been slated to be paid by the Bills and that's just way, way too much for what probably would have been very little production.
 
He was two weeks of conditioning away from playing, by his own admission. I guess that's "out of shape." Still nothing to back up your contention that he was asking for too much money.

Fact remains that the Texans had a guy willing and able to replace Barwin and decided to nickle and dime him instead.

Not saying Aaron Schobel is the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, but he's certainly a microcosm of it.

Schobel doesn't replace Barwin. Schobel would've been an adequate replacement for Mario while he recovered from the surgery he should've had. If you watch the first half of the Indy game in week one or simply listen to Kubiak talk about him, they planned on using him as a joker and had special packages designed for him. Barwin was the key element to their nickel and dime packages. There is no way Schobel was going to fill that role.
 
Barwin is not the problem. His injury didn't make our defense suck. our front office's laissez-faire attitude did.

And it will do the same thing this year because it looks like they are going to do the annual dumpster dive. And before you call me crazy or a hater, this is the same thing I said last year and everyone said I was crazy predicting 6-10 on multiple threads. Here is one for you from June after we let people walk and did nothing to improve....because that would cost $$ and we all know McNair loves winning but he loves $$ a lot more than winning

by the way this is from June 2010.

truth hurts. 6-10 here we come.

but at least we were 9-7 last year...that was an awesome 'victory' parade

but yeah, God forbid a fan want their team to sign a player to improve the team

i am soooo off-base here. what a horrible fan I am for wanting the team to address the safety position

God forbid the team improve the team by spending $. what a horrible thing to say.

when we are sucking the tailpipe next year, don't tell me I didn't warn you...

just like I warned a lot of you before...no one listened then so why should I be surprised now.

but then again, most people will act like they saw it coming all along like they did with Carr
its funny how the same people that act like 9-7 was a success and that Kubiak is a good coach and that this was a good offseason are the same clueless homers that thought Carr was the cat's meow.

you know who you are, i won't point any fingers

yes, feel free to read the mensas who call me a hater and have called me a hater since I started round here over 6 seasons ago. Maybe I am just smarter than some of these homering yayhoos...i dunno.

The team will be lucky to get 8 wins in 2011 and if they don't do anything to improve the team in free agency, I actually predict 6-10...again.

Lets hope they finally stop being so damn stupid and cheap and do something

Smithiaknair sucks...but especially Rick and Bob. Cheap ass losers content with mediocrity...like most of this fanbase sadly.

When have I been wrong? I called out the Texans as losers for drafting/re-signing Carr. Called stupid. Proven correct. called out the Texans for hiring loser Kubiak. called hater. Proven correct. Said we would go 6-10 before the season. Called insane (and worse...thanks for the bad rep anyway) and was proven right again. Dont' hate on me because I drop wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence on your domes.

Just wake up and smell the losing. Everyone but Joe Texan should be fed up with this crap. JT can't because he is a cheerleader and being a homer fills the void I guess.
 
He was two weeks of conditioning away from playing, by his own admission. I guess that's "out of shape." Still nothing to back up your contention that he was asking for too much money.

Fact remains that the Texans had a guy willing and able to replace Barwin and decided to nickle and dime him instead.

Not saying Aaron Schobel is the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, but he's certainly a microcosm of it.

I was kinda perturbed that the Schobel thing didn't happen. But, we're talking about a guy who retired, walked away from football.. He was saying very early in the offseason, that he would come play for Houston, but when the powers that be went to talk to him, he was out of shape.

What does that say about his desire to play football?

Maybe he would have been fine, or maybe the word is out that we pay people an enormous amount of money & don't expect much in return (hence Shaun Rogers also "wanting" to "play" for Houston).

Maybe the Texans' guessed wrong.... maybe Schobel would have kicked butt for the Texans... we will never know, but to act as if it's a fact that he would, is a little disingenuous to say the least.

Since we weren't able to strike a deal with Schobel, we continued looking for talent at the DE position, and we got Anderson. His age alone makes that a much better deal.
 
Barwin is not the problem. His injury didn't make our defense suck. our front office's laissez-faire attitude did.

And it will do the same thing this year because it looks like they are going to do the annual dumpster dive. And before you call me crazy or a hater, this is the same thing I said last year and everyone said I was crazy predicting 6-10 on multiple threads. Here is one for you from June after we let people walk and did nothing to improve....because that would cost $$ and we all know McNair loves winning but he loves $$ a lot more than winning

by the way this is from June 2010.



yes, feel free to read the mensas who call me a hater and have called me a hater since I started round here over 6 seasons ago. Maybe I am just smarter than some of these homering yayhoos...i dunno.

The team will be lucky to get 8 wins in 2011 and if they don't do anything to improve the team in free agency, I actually predict 6-10...again.

Lets hope they finally stop being so damn stupid and cheap and do something

Smithiaknair sucks...but especially Rick and Bob. Cheap ass losers content with mediocrity...like most of this fanbase sadly.

When have I been wrong? I called out the Texans as losers for drafting/re-signing Carr. Called stupid. Proven correct. called out the Texans for hiring loser Kubiak. called hater. Proven correct. Said we would go 6-10 before the season. Called insane (and worse...thanks for the bad rep anyway) and was proven right again. Dont' hate on me because I drop wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence on your domes.

Just wake up and smell the losing. Everyone but Joe Texan should be fed up with this crap. JT can't because he is a cheerleader and being a homer fills the void I guess.


Buckle up, SH, because I think you are about to fall in love with the organization this off-season.. If this CBA gets done next week, you can expect them to make significant splashes in free agency. It will be fun to have you on board the Sunshine Train in about 2 weeks.

Let me add this... If they are stagnant this off-season and operate the way they have... for instance, go into the season planning on starting Shaun Cody at NT, Kareem Jackson at CB and Troy Nolan at safety... then, I'm going to be off the band-wagon and screaming for heads to role before a game has been played.... Don't think it is going to happen like that, though.
 
Buckle up, SH, because I think you are about to fall in love with the organization this off-season.. If this CBA gets done next week, you can expect them to make significant splashes in free agency. It will be fun to have you on board the Sunshine Train in about 2 weeks.

Let me add this... If they are stagnant this off-season and operate the way they have... for instance, go into the season planning on starting Shaun Cody at NT, Kareem Jackson at CB and Troy Nolan at safety... then, I'm going to be off the band-wagon and screaming for heads to role before a game has been played.... Don't think it is going to happen like that, though.

i hope you are right, but I hope you don't find my lack of faith disturbing.

i think they will do the following:
1. thump their chest over signing OD and maybe Foster
2. draft the same crappy way they always do
3. do the annual dumpster dive like they always do
4. continue to be a pathetic and barely mediocre franchise

they will be lucky to sign one FA worth a crap and their drafting will be par for the course round here...in other words, total crap. I am not even sure they will get even one top tier FA. you iknow why? because they never have. they are afraid of their own shadow much less have the balls to actually try and improve this team.

and the sad thing is they already have built in excuses for not 'winning'.

basically we got all the headaches and growing pains of bringing in a new HC, which is something McNair is deathly afraid of, but instead we get all the headaches of bringing in a new HC without actually bringing in a new HC that could actually not suck as bad as Kubiak....and trust me, he sucks as a HC. no way around it. #FACT #NOTWINNING
 
I agree that losing Barwin was huge for our team and if Kubiak ever came onto this board, he would've known that all of us knew how bad this impacted our team. It was obvious in the Indy game itself. Manning had a tough time with our defense.

However, if Barwin was so huge for us last year and we knew we had specific packages for him, why in the world did we not get another player that filled his skill set and have a valid backup for him in the event of an injury. Connor was a second year player, and if he could pick up that assignment, even the lowest costing veteran and/or rookie who has the same intangibles as Barwin would've been a super pick up for our team that would've proven valuable. What did we do though? We tried to put square pegs in round holes and asked Rick Smith to find a player or two.

Amen Brother
 
Just because a guy says he's two weeks out of shape doesn't mean that he just needs a couple of weeks to get ready. The telling part of that quote to me was "they saw me as I am" and not "as I could be."

I'm not going to speculate on something like that. If he was in active negotiations with a team, tried out, and said that he would be ready to suit up and play at his normals means of production in two weeks, I'm going to take it at face value.

And all the stories we were hearing at the time made it sound like Schobel wanted to be paid almost as much as he had been slated to be paid by the Bills and that's just way, way too much for what probably would have been very little production.
The only information I have heard from the negotiations was from LZ via Schobel's agent, and that was that they had agreed on a price, and that Smith came back and wanted that price pro-rated, which ended discussions. I believe that number was also stated, but I can't recall what it was. I want to say it was $5M, though I could be making that up. Regardless, they wouldn't have agreed on a price in the first place if he was asking for some outrageous number.
 
FWIW, I found some old notes on the Schobel situation when it was fresh.:

He said it himself in the Chronicle article that he wasn't in good shape and it would only take a week or two get back in playing.

Common sense would better estimate more like 4-6 weeks. Keep in mind that the last game he played was 01/03/10 which was the last game of last season. So for basically for 9 months, he had no incentive to get in shape because he was thinking about retiring since then. He skipped all of the Bills OTAs, mini-camps, and offseason training programs.

Schobel wanted to come as a starter.

"I'm glad we made an opportunity for (the workout) to happen," Schobel said. "For me to say they made a mistake or I made a mistake, who knows?

"They have a lot of good players and are on the right track. It would have been hard for my ego to be a role player."

It was John McClain and Lance on radio that McClain said that he was under the impression a deal was done when he went in for the workout and then the Texans asked him to take less than they'd already agreed to. John and Lance both said that the Schobel family was furious with the Texans and that they will have nothing to do with the team going forward.
 
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Hey Cloak, how are the odds that Barwin regains 100% of his explosiveness before camp, or at least before the season starts?
 
Is this based on the same thing your assertion that Schobel was asking for too much money was based on (re: nothing)?


If you are that interested in the negotiations and what the sources were saying, do some research.

Schobel couldn't replace Barwin because he didn't have the athleticisim to do so. We were using Barwin as a joker, running a variety of 3-4 looks with Barwin at LBs, having Barwin run loops and stunts and also drop into coverage. Schobel can't do those things. I'm not sure what kind of evidence you are looking for. I would suggest re-watching the Texans game in week one with an eye on Barwin. Then, subscribe to NFL rewind and watch Schobel play for the Bills the past season and try and think about whether he could do what Barwin was being asked to do.

Here's an article I wrote on September 17th, breaking down the various defensive line packages and who was doing what against Indy
 
Hey Cloak, how are the odds that Barwin regains 100% of his explosiveness before camp, or at least before the season starts?

This is a piece I posted when Tate was "medically released."


Originally Posted by drs23
Doc, do you still feel the recovery potential for Tate to be in 85-95 % range?

Being medically cleared really doesn't tell you much about his potential for future performance.......only that he has attained about 85% strength in the affected leg compared to the uninjured leg, and that he is released to hard contact. This type of injury takes up to 2 years to maximally recover. How he actually performs on the field is not totally predictable due to the extensive ligament damage that typically accompanies such an injury. His ability to legitemately "return to action" is approximately 85-95%. I would expect that, in time, he will have close to the same potential to return to preinjury potential, but maybe not until nearer the mid to end of the 2011 season (if there is one).

Keep in mind that Barwin's injury was "similar," however, with his foot turned around as exaggerated as it was, you can count on the ligament damage being substantially more extensive . Barwin has been running, but not medically cleared. Running puts very little lateral forces on the ligaments as compared to cutting and changing direction, especially with resistance (against opponents). Again, keep in mind that Barwin was injured 1 month AFTER Tate.

I expect that Barwin has ZERO chance of being himself for TC and more like 80% chance of returning legitimately to action. And if he returns to action, I expect he will be able to regain closer to 80-85% his preinjury performance......and, probably not any earlier than near the end of the upcoming season. As I've found over years of experience, nothing in injury/surgery prognosis can be made in stone. But that's my best feel with the facts released.
 
Plus, picking up Mark Anderson when we did, made Schobel a moot point.

If 6-10 was good enough for you.

No need to go out and get the best player available.

I mean getting a player that was playing at a pro bowl level the yr before. Especially when you can sign a FA that got that got cut by the Bears the week before.

I'm not buying the Schobel was in such bad shape that he couldn't help the Texans and their pathetic pass rush. That BoB,Gary and Rick were selling.

It came down to the $$$$ and BoB would rather throw away a season than pony up the $$$$. Either that or Rick and Gary are idiots.
 
i hope you are right, but I hope you don't find my lack of faith disturbing.

i think they will do the following:
1. thump their chest over signing OD and maybe Foster
2. draft the same crappy way they always do
3. do the annual dumpster dive like they always do
4. continue to be a pathetic and barely mediocre franchise

they will be lucky to sign one FA worth a crap and their drafting will be par for the course round here...in other words, total crap. I am not even sure they will get even one top tier FA. you iknow why? because they never have. they are afraid of their own shadow much less have the balls to actually try and improve this team.

I do agree it will unfortunately be business as usual this off-season. The CBA provides the excuse they need.

However, I think Smithiak has already improved this team, from the team Kubiak got in 2006. 6-10, hopefully is our floor.... and not 2-14.

But, I don't know about the FA thing. Here is a list of 2010 FAs...I don't believe we can count the guys who signed with their original teams, but...

Julius Peppers & Karlos Dansby. Should we have signed them? We got the best kicker in Rackers.

Thomas Jones...... LT, should we have signed them?

We signed Wade Smith...... I don't even know if he's ranked on the FA list. But he worked out pretty well, I think.

Of course, there were several FA DEs signed for the 2010 season, Peppers, Van den Bosh, Kampman, etc... but we had just signed Smith the year before, and Barwin was a 2nd round pick. Had we known Barwin was going to be injured for the season in week 1.........

We may not make the "splash" everyone likes in FA, but we do pick up some good prospects that usually serve our team well.
 
If 6-10 was good enough for you.

No need to go out and get the best player available.

I mean getting a player that was playing at a pro bowl level the yr before. Especially when you can sign a FA that got that got cut by the Bears the week before.

I'm not buying the Schobel was in such bad shape that he couldn't help the Texans and their pathetic pass rush. That BoB,Gary and Rick were selling.

It came down to the $$$$ and BoB would rather throw away a season than pony up the $$$$. Either that or Rick and Gary are idiots.

So you think Schobel would have led us to better than 6-10?

This is because the pro-bowler has done so for Buffalo umpteen times?

Anderson is a better prospect than Schobel, period. We've got plans for Anderson for 2011, most likely further out as well. We'd be patting Schobel on the back, thanking him for his contribution to the 30th rank defense as he rides off into retirement.
 
If you are that interested in the negotiations and what the sources were saying, do some research.

Schobel couldn't replace Barwin because he didn't have the athleticisim to do so. We were using Barwin as a joker, running a variety of 3-4 looks with Barwin at LBs, having Barwin run loops and stunts and also drop into coverage. Schobel can't do those things. I'm not sure what kind of evidence you are looking for. I would suggest re-watching the Texans game in week one with an eye on Barwin. Then, subscribe to NFL rewind and watch Schobel play for the Bills the past season and try and think about whether he could do what Barwin was being asked to do.

Here's an article I wrote on September 17th, breaking down the various defensive line packages and who was doing what against Indy

I understand what role Barwin played and was supposed to play on our defense. That's not what I am questioning. I am questioning your assertion that Schobel couldn't play that same position. You have no basis for it.

If Schobel was so unathletic and incapable of playing DE/OLB, I don't see why the Patriots were interested in playing him at OLB.

So, again, I ask you, on what basis do you assert that Schobel was unable to fill Barwin's role? Just because you say things doesn't make them true.
 
I understand what role Barwin played and was supposed to play on our defense. That's not what I am questioning. I am questioning your assertion that Schobel couldn't play that same position. You have no basis for it.

If Schobel was so unathletic and incapable of playing DE/OLB, I don't see why the Patriots were interested in playing him at OLB.

So, again, I ask you, on what basis do you assert that Schobel was unable to fill Barwin's role? Just because you say things doesn't make them true.

Everyone was reporting that Schobel was out of shape. We worked him out, and it must of been bad, considering what we had last year. The Patriots were "interested" Well it never went beyond that. I'm sure there was a ReAsOn ?!?!?!?
 
Everyone was reporting that Schobel was out of shape. We worked him out, and it must of been bad, considering what we had last year. The Patriots were "interested" Well it never went beyond that. I'm sure there was a ReAsOn ?!?!?!?

I'm sure there was a reason he didn't play for the Patriots, and there's as much of a chance that Schobel not playing for the Patriots was Schobel's prerogative as it was the Patriots'. I'd even venture the chances are greater it was Schobel's decision.

That's neither here nor there. The mere fact that the Patriots were interested in Schobel playing OLB in their system puts to bed any notion that he was incapable of playing it for a couple of plays a game in ours.
 
I'm sure there was a reason, and there's as much of a chance that Schobel not playing for the Patriots was Schobel's prerogative as it was the Patriots'.

Regardless, the mere fact that the Patriots were interested in Schobel playing OLB in their system puts to bed any notion that he was incapable of playing it for a couple of plays again in ours.

all I'm saying is that we were interested too. otherwise he wouldn't of worked out for us. I am Interested in Megan Fox, but that's probably as far as that will ever go :photos:
 
I'm wondering how much difference there is between the strong-side OLB and weak OLB in the 3-4 ? There's a definite difference in the 4-3, so perhaps ideally you'd also look for 2 different players for the 3-4 OLB positions ?
 
I'm wondering how much difference there is between the strong-side OLB and weak OLB in the 3-4 ? There's a definite difference in the 4-3, so perhaps ideally you'd also look for 2 different players for the 3-4 OLB positions ?

I think in the 3-4, your strong side OLB is your run defender, coverage guy. And the weak side is your rush LB. Generally speaking.
 
I think in the 3-4, your strong side OLB is your run defender, coverage guy. And the weak side is your rush LB. Generally speaking.

I thought that in the 3-4 D, both of the OLB are the primary pass-rushers, and don't play as much coverage. The DEs are just supposed to stuff the run, draw blockers, and break the pocket to open up a path to the QB (or the RB, if he's there with the ball) for the OLB. The ILBs seem to take care of much of the coverage.

There are so many hybrid systems today, that I guess responsibilities can be variable.
 
I think in the 3-4, your strong side OLB is your run defender, coverage guy. And the weak side is your rush LB. Generally speaking.

More or less.

I don't see any difference in the S-OLB in either system. The W-OLB is a pass rusher in the 3-4, like you said.
 
I thought that in the 3-4 D, both of the OLB are the primary pass-rushers, and don't play as much coverage. The DEs are just supposed to stuff the run, draw blockers, and break the pocket to open up a path to the QB (or the RB, if he's there with the ball) for the OLB. The ILBs seem to take care of much of the coverage.

There are so many hybrid systems today, that I guess responsibilities can be variable.

When Wade got to Dallas, he turned Greg Ellis (a fine DE) into the S-OLB. His primary job was the TE, but he also set the edge on running plays. Demarcus Ware rushed the QB 9 out of 10 snaps.

In passing situations, they went to a 4 man front, Greg Ellis, hands down, Ware, hands down...... they would pull Chris Canty (DE) off the field.
 
More or less.

I don't see any difference in the S-OLB in either system. The W-OLB is a pass rusher in the 3-4, like you said.
I would think both OLBs are expected to have skills as pass-rushers, just as
both 4-3 DEs are expected to have pass-rushing skills. Afterall in each defense they are the "edge-rushers".
 
I would think both OLBs are expected to have skills as pass-rushers, just as
both 4-3 DEs are expected to have pass-rushing skills. Afterall in each defense they are the "edge-rushers".

The strong side DE is still your edge rusher on the strong side. Especially in Wade's 3-4.

The strong side OLB still has pass rushing responsibilities, just like he did in the 4-3..... I'm not saying he won't rush the passer, I'm saying his job/responsibilities aren't very different from a 4-3 SAM.
 
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