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Offensive Line Graded out with One Sack

Vinny

Vinny

shiny happy fan
eriadoc said:
That's easy ... first we added VICTOR FRIGGIN RILEY! Second, the coaching staff has NOT changed. These are the precise issues I'm addressing. If you can honestly say to yourself that any other QB would be anywhere differently after 3 years in this system, then we have nothing more to discuss.
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Capers just stated (on his radio show) that there was only one sack attributed to the offensive line. The other sacks were blown assignments of other players. I know 'the line' is everyone's big excuse for Carr's poor play but Capers will not critique Carr so he leaves the line a scapegoat most of the time for the fans to chew on. Riley graded out quite well when asked directly.
 
Vinny said:
Capers just stated (on his radio show) that there was only one sack attributed to the offensive line. The other sacks were blown assignments of other players. I know 'the line' is everyone's big excuse for Carr's poor play but Capers will not critique Carr so he leaves the line a scapegoat most of the time for the fans to chew on.
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Ah yes because you KNOW he was talking about Carr. Whatever. And Capers always tells you the truth.
 
Vinny said:
Capers just stated (on his radio show) that there was only one sack attributed to the offensive line. The other sacks were blown assignments of other players. I know 'the line' is everyone's big excuse for Carr's poor play but Capers will not critique Carr so he leaves the line a scapegoat most of the time for the fans to chew on.
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I'd add that 2 of the sacks seemed to be Carr's fault. May have been coverage sacks but he still seemed to have time to throw the ball away on them.
 
Wells missed the block on the fumble, and DD mised one as well. Don't know about the rest of them. Frankly, I never mentioned that Carr was responsible for any of them. Don't know why you are so offended.
 
Vinny said:
Wells missed the block on the fumble, and DD mised one as well. Don't know about the rest of them. Frankly, I never mentioned that Carr was responsible for any of them. Don't know why you are so offended.
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That towards me Vinny? I'm not offended at all. I was adding to the fact that the o-line wasn't responsible for all the sacks. I felt that Carr was at fault for 2. Maybe I wasn't clear. Sorry.
 
that is frustrating Vinny all these blown assignments and most of the guys are 2nd and 3rd year players.. Some are more.

Assignments will get blown, but how many are we blowing on a play?
 
Exascor said:
That towards me Vinny? I'm not offended at all. I was adding to the fact that the o-line wasn't responsible for all the sacks. I felt that Carr was at fault for 2. Maybe I wasn't clear. Sorry.
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Didn't see your response before I posted. Just replying to ses.
 
"it wasn't only David, it was EVERYBODY" - Dom Capers

"David took a couple head shots (on our TD drive) and drove it down like a leader" - Dom Capers

"We havn't had a problem around here with that (penalities)" - Dom Capers


Not a problem with penalties, what games has he been watching?
 
One of the 610am guys said he thought 4 of the 5 sacks were not the responsibility of the OL prior to Capers going on the show. Regardless of whether the sacks were the OL's fault, there isn't an argument that can be made that the OL played anything close to an average NFL OL yesterday. Plenty of blame to go around on this one--they played badly as did Carr.
 
I heard Marc V say that Norris got blown up by Kelsay on one of the sacks. I need to go back and watch the replay after my dinner settles a bit.

The OL stunk yesterday. So did Carr. So did the blocking backs. So did the receivers. So did Palmer for whatever the game plan was and lack of adjustment (new form of kryptonite discovered that takes away three step drops). So did Capers for his stubborn to a fault philosophical approach. The offense is broken due to many causes.

I'm really getting tired of all the candy *** callers they are letting into the Capers show right now. They must be screening tighter than usual....
 
Yes he did, he went right around Moran on the right side of the play, completely blew him up. That is not Carrs fault.
 
I know Wells "oley" on a sack that led to a fumble


Where is an alonzo highsmith when you need him.. I remember him flipping people and laying people out before he got hurt
 
That is not Carrs fault
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or more importantly, the OL's fault. as it's been said plenty of times since sunday, there is plenty of blame to go around (even if the OL got punked 70% of the time).
 
Wolf said:
I know Wells "oley" on a sack that led to a fumble
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T Spikes totally steamrolled him on a bull rush. Wells was not low enough and when upright trying to block a man of his caliber was a recipe for disaster.
 
I noticed on a few places they seem to put an OLB on the left side of the D up around the LOS basically spying Carr the whole time. If he handed off, he would play the run of course. But if it was a fake he was all over Carr's roll out in about 2 seconds. It also took away a lot of the dump offs since he would be right in the lane and too close to DD for a touch pass. Maybe it was just those few plays that this happened but it seemed to take away a lot of the offense when it was done.

I guess essentially it's just a spy/short zone but seriously the way Palmer/Capers play this offense it takes away so much. Add in a couple of deep safeties in Cover 2 and suddenly our offense = zero.
 
Vinny said:
T Spikes totally steamrolled him on a bull rush. Wells was not low enough and when upright trying to block a man of his caliber was a recipe for disaster.
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I agree with you on that.. good play by Spikes but it reminded me of "unneccesary roughness" when scott Bakula was telling that teammate to tell the guy a story or tell a joke, just get the guy off of me
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
I noticed on a few places they seem to put an OLB on the left side of the D up around the LOS basically spying Carr the whole time. If he handed off, he would play the run of course. But if it was a fake he was all over Carr's roll out in about 2 seconds. It also took away a lot of the dump offs since he would be right in the lane and too close to DD for a touch pass. Maybe it was just those few plays that this happened but it seemed to take away a lot of the offense when it was done.

I guess essentially it's just a spy/short zone but seriously the way Palmer/Capers play this offense it takes away so much. Add in a couple of deep safeties in Cover 2 and suddenly our offense = zero.
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I'm going to watch the game again tomorrow and watch the lineplay. I will look for this as well. When you are sitting in a cover2 and you have a spy on the QB someone has to be open somewhere. If the defense sniffs out the rollout then the QB has to find the hot read.
 
All it took was a little motivation like maybe a interception from Peek, or an int from Coleman and Dunta(?) that was knocked down by the Bills reciever. The D played fairly well, but the still didn't cause any turnovers.
 
Vinny said:
Capers just stated (on his radio show) that there was only one sack attributed to the offensive line. The other sacks were blown assignments of other players. I know 'the line' is everyone's big excuse for Carr's poor play but Capers will not critique Carr so he leaves the line a scapegoat most of the time for the fans to chew on. Riley graded out quite well when asked directly.
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Jeez, to think I was worried as if we had a real problem. I'm so relieved to find
out the OL did OK yesterday because I could have sworn I saw Carr running
for his life every other time he took a snap vs. the Bills QB who stood around
in his pocket, then looked up in the stands to check out the chicks, then
picked his nose or maybe scratched his ***, then maybe thru a pass if the
mood so hit him. I dunno....they can just put the RBs thru some blocking
drills this week to refresh their skills on picking up blitzs and we're back in business.
 
nunusguy said:
Jeez, to think I was worried as if we had a real problem. I'm so relieved to find
out the OL did OK yesterday because I could have sworn I saw Carr running
for his life every other time he took a snap vs. the Bills QB who stood around
in his pocket, then looked up in the stands to check out the chicks, then
picked his nose or maybe scratched his ***, then maybe thru a pass if the
mood so hit him. I dunno....they can just put the RBs thru some blocking
drills this week to refresh their skills on picking up blitzs and we're back in business.
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Sarcasm is all cool and all but we used to talk intelligent fooball here at one time. I'm trying to do that.

I have the game on tape so I will look close at the line tomorrow (when I have some free time). Zep said there was a spy on Carr and if so, then the spy would be all over the roll out and it's up to Carr to find the hot read asap. The Bills were sitting back in a cover 2 and if they had a spy on the short roll then that would explain the heat on the roll outs....that would be on Carr to get out of that with a dump pass or to check out of the plays. To me, Carr had time in the pocket (when in the pocket...not talking about on the moving roll out) most of the time (outside of a couple of snaps) but just didn't have a good day.

"Hopefully, we won't play these guys again for a while because they'd beat us again," - David Carr
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What kind of statement is that coming from our leader?
 
Here's that entire quote because when you leave out the last part it sounds horrible. I took it to mean that they need to play better or they won't win. I agreed.
"Hopefully, we won't play these guys again for a while because they'd beat us again," he said. "If we come out and play the same way, and they're on us like they were today, we'd get beat again." - David Carr
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I still don't like him just admitting they can't win. When Carr threw the a pick he just stood there and watched. When Carr fumbled the ball he just stood there and watched. I'm really dissapointed in his leadership skills now. I thought it was going to be a 'no brainer' that we pick up his contract, but now I'm not so sure.
 
Vinny said:
What kind of statement is that coming from our leader?
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I read that statement in today's paper also and was in disbelief, I'm speechless...David Carr has been the biggest dissapointment throughout the entire NFL during week 1... and with that attitude i doubt he makes any kind of a comeback.
 
Vinny said:
Sarcasm is all cool and all but we used to talk intelligent fooball here at one time. I'm trying to do that.

I have the game on tape so I will look close at the line tomorrow (when I have some free time). Zep said there was a spy on Carr and if so, then the spy would be all over the roll out and it's up to Carr to find the hot read asap. The Bills were sitting back in a cover 2 and if they had a spy on the short roll then that would explain the heat on the roll outs....that would be on Carr to get out of that with a dump pass or to check out of the plays. To me, Carr had time in the pocket (when in the pocket...not talking about on the moving roll out) most of the time (outside of a couple of snaps) but just didn't have a good day.


What kind of statement is that coming from our leader?
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The problem with finding the hot read when he's under pressure is that I don't think Carr can focus on two things at once. Good QBs need to be able to evade the rush while looking downfield at the same time. Seriously Carr only seems capable of doing one at a time successfully. I'm not necessarily saying he's dumb, some of the brightest people can't multi-task that well. But that doesn't explain making dumb decisions when he has time. (Like the triple-coverage gift that fell from the sky into the safety's hands)
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
The problem with finding the hot read when he's under pressure is that I don't think Carr can focus on two things at once. Good QBs need to be able to evade the rush while looking downfield at the same time. Seriously Carr only seems capable of doing one at a time successfully. I'm not necessarily saying he's dumb, some of the brightest people can't multi-task that well. But that doesn't explain making dumb decisions when he has time. (Like the triple-coverage gift that fell from the sky into the safety's hands)
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most qb's the game "slows down" for them with Carr it seems to accelerated and in all fairness hard to have the game slow down when the pocket collapses too fast
 
Maybe the Texans OL needs to watch "the longest yard" with Burt Reynolds.. isn't that the one where the OL was getting creamed and Burt told them to let the guy through and then drilled the guy with the football?
:heh:
 
In the second preseason game the first team Office was unable to convert a first and goal on the one. After I saw that ****, I left the stadium for the parking lot. As a season ticket holder I am really disappointed with this team. How come Carr cannot handle a three step drop? I have watched Carr do the same roll out for the past 3 years. He is completly predictable. He also follows the receiver. I know who he is going to force it to and I am in the stands. If he does not have the ability to look off the defense then give him a dark shield or something.
 
Wolf said:
most qb's the game "slows down" for them with Carr it seems to accelerated and in all fairness hard to have the game slow down when the pocket collapses too fast
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Yea, I agree the line hasn't helped his development at all. In the last game the pass protection was just abysmal on every level from what I could see - Someone would run by Wade, then run over or blow past the RB. Also saw Bruener get owned on a play as well as Riley on another. We've already discussed Wells and Davis getting beat. I think I saw another guy run past a confused McKinney (doing his best impression of Jimmy Herndon). Seriously, Pitts is the only one I didn't see get completely humiliated on atleast one play.
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
Seriously, Pitts is the only one I didn't see get completely humiliated on atleast one play.
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Pitts and Riley were both half humiliated on the stunt on the third play of the game. That must have been the only sack that was the fault of the o-line, unless that was a running back's problem too.

On a related topic:

According to the article in the Chronicle, there may be a fractured coaching philosophy. Is this a Capers/Pendry vs. Palmer thing? Is that why Capers is protecting the O-line? Help me get rid of Palmer and you can have the job?

I doubt it, but are we all that blind that we can't see that the O-line is good? That's hard to believe too.

Two quotes from the Justice column:

The Texans apparently haven't really changed, at least not in the ways they promised. They may not even be capable of changing if, as it seems, head coach Dom Capers has one offensive philosophy and offensive coordinator Chris Palmer another.

Around the NFL, some believed offensive line coach Joe Pendry had a big hand in the offensive changes. He's a former offensive coordinator and a man who probably sees offensive football the way Capers sees it.
 
after watching Manning last night one of the things that strikes you is all the movement, pointing & communication going on. His head is up reading the defense and barking out adjustments and changes. Since I'm not a Colt fan I don't know this for a fact but it seems he calls his own plays, mostly out of a shotgun formation. just an idea but would this might work better for Carr & the Texans? :texans:
 
Runner said:
Pitts and Riley were both half humiliated on the stunt on the third play of the game. That must have been the only sack that was the fault of the o-line, unless that was a running back's problem too.
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My alarm didn't go off (yes, I need an alarm to make sure I get up before 12 on Sundays) so I missed half of the first quarter, so that would explain Pitts escaping my criticism. Overall he seemed to do alright the rest of the game.
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
My alarm didn't go off (yes, I need an alarm to make sure I get up before 12 on Sundays) so I missed half of the first quarter, so that would explain Pitts escaping my criticism. Overall he seemed to do alright the rest of the game.
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That was kind of a joke by me. The defensive end and tackle stunted, Pitts and Riley both took the tackle on the outside, and the end made the sack up the middle. One of them made a mistake, I don't know which. It looked pretty bad since it was the 3rd play of the game for the Texan O.

However, I feel better now that I know Capers thought the line did well.
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
The problem with finding the hot read when he's under pressure is that I don't think Carr can focus on two things at once. Good QBs need to be able to evade the rush while looking downfield at the same time. Seriously Carr only seems capable of doing one at a time successfully. I'm not necessarily saying he's dumb, some of the brightest people can't multi-task that well. But that doesn't explain making dumb decisions when he has time. (Like the triple-coverage gift that fell from the sky into the safety's hands)
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While I think DC is a fine young family man and a decent person from everything I've heard, I'm not a big fan of him as a player in the same sense that I am of say AJ or D-Rob. But I think Carr is atleast an average QB and its hard for me to believe that as a 4th yr starter he'd have that much trouble with a spy, especially since he runs well and this very unnovel tactic
to shawdow him is something he's probably seen a lot before.
Unlike most women, my wife really knows football - she was born and raised
here in TX (sorry for the PC slipup - men usually can't cook & women usually
don't know mcuh football, if that makes me a sexist so be it). Anyway, she's said for a long time that Carr does not have real good snap upstairs and has
actively expressed reservations about him as our long term QB , but even she said he spend gobs of time running for cover yesterday.
 
The line never really builds a pocket. Sometimes they get in the way enough to keep the D off his back from a few seconds, but even then they seem only moments from tearing his face apart. If you watch the Vikings, or Eagles lines, the QBs can drop back a few steps and really survey the field. Carr always seems to have a guy within a few feet of him even when the defender is being blocked.
 
ya i just heard the weekly radio show also, it's good to see texans fans coming through on the air with powder puff questions, no fan really sounded concerned or anything, well capers again stated only one sac was attributed to the line so i guess they think the line did a good job lol this is so crazy i couldn't believe the things he was saying oh well.....
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
The line never really builds a pocket. Sometimes they get in the way enough to keep the D off his back from a few seconds, but even then they seem only moments from tearing his face apart. If you watch the Vikings, or Eagles lines, the QBs can drop back a few steps and really survey the field. Carr always seems to have a guy within a few feet of him even when the defender is being blocked.
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Exactly.. I can't remember a time when Carr had time to actually step up in the pocket.
 
Exactly.. I can't remember a time when Carr had time to actually step up in the pocket.
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He did several times, and two of the times he did have time in the pocket he threw INT's...
 
ledzeppelin269 said:
...But that doesn't explain making dumb decisions when he has time. (Like the triple-coverage gift that fell from the sky into the safety's hands)
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That wasn't a bad decision, it was a bad throw. AJ had beaten the corner & safety to the post. If Carr had put the ball on the money, it would have been six (or AJ would have dropped it). The pass drifted to the middle and Vincent was there. Good decision, sorry throw.

Of course Carr did hit Bradford on a perfect 30 yard go on a 3rd & 17. Only to see the ball slip right between Corey's fingers. The Bills defense gives up very few big plays. And when the opportunities were there, the Texans screwed them up.

By the time the score was 12-0, the Texans had only run 3 pass plays. One a short pass to Davis, the next a sack on a simple stunt that confused Chester Pitts, then a busted play where Chris Kelsey forced Carr out of the pocket (Wade tackled him), Pitts & McKinney ran downfield to block, and forced a pass rather than just stepping out of bounds. And that play was another example of AJ not coming back to the ball (Troy Vincent did). I would think the coaching staff has gone over these mistakes many times before. These players aren't listening to them
 
texan0305 said:
ya i just heard the weekly radio show also, it's good to see texans fans coming through on the air with powder puff questions, no fan really sounded concerned or anything, well capers again stated only one sac was attributed to the line so i guess they think the line did a good job lol this is so crazy i couldn't believe the things he was saying oh well.....
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You can bet those calls were well screened.
 
Maybe this is a non-issue, but could part of the lines problem be having two coaches? I think Pendry coaches the tackles and Steve Marshall the center/guards (or the other way around). I don't really know anything about line coaching.
 
Lucky said:
That wasn't a bad decision, it was a bad throw. AJ had beaten the corner & safety to the post. If Carr had put the ball on the money, it would have been six (or AJ would have dropped it). The pass drifted to the middle and Vincent was there. Good decision, sorry throw.

Of course Carr did hit Bradford on a perfect 30 yard go on a 3rd & 17. Only to see the ball slip right between Corey's fingers. The Bills defense gives up very few big plays. And when the opportunities were there, the Texans screwed them up.

By the time the score was 12-0, the Texans had only run 3 pass plays. One a short pass to Davis, the next a sack on a simple stunt that confused Chester Pitts, then a busted play where Chris Kelsey forced Carr out of the pocket (Wade tackled him), Pitts & McKinney ran downfield to block, and forced a pass rather than just stepping out of bounds. And that play was another example of AJ not coming back to the ball (Troy Vincent did). I would think the coaching staff has gone over these mistakes many times before. These players aren't listening to them
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I agree with that about Vincent.. but after the game Vincent said Carr does NOT look off his receivers which could be the differenct between 6 and an INT.

Also if the pass about Bradford is the one I am thinking about.. Bradford got nailed as it was getting to his hands.


if those are right, it would have been nice to get those catches
 
Am I mistaken or did Carr hang that pass up like a hail mary? If he wants to make that completion he has to fire it in there and thread the needle, not throw it up into double coverage and give another defender time to get there and pray that AJ catches it in triple coverage...
 
texan279 said:
Am I mistaken or did Carr hang that pass up like a hail mary? If he wants to make that completion he has to fire it in there and thread the needle, not throw it up into double coverage and give another defender time to get there and pray that AJ catches it in triple coverage...
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if they are the plays I think both were high arching.. I think Carr was just trying to let the WR run under it.. Bradfords was a little underthrown and AJ's well it was there it was just triple coverage. a little pump fake to the outside would have been nice or something like that to freeze the safety
 
Carr throws a poor deep ball. That is just one example of many. To me it looked like he is trying to get more air under the ball, but he isn't good at it.
 
Vinny said:
Carr throws a poor deep ball. That is just one example of many. To me it looked like he is trying to get more air under the ball, but he isn't good at it.
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I'd agree with that. His deep balls have always been bullets in the past. This time it looked better but wasn't accurate. Not to mention thrown into coverage.
 
Vinny said:
Riley graded out quite well when asked directly.
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I think Capers would have said any individual graded out well - he's not one for publicly hanging a player.
 
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