Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Official switch to the 3-4 thread

Blake

Blake

MMQB
Now that we know who are D coach is, and that we will play a 3-4 defense we should compile a list of needs.

NT - A Nick Fairley, Stephen Paea, would go a long way.

DE - Smith, Mario, Mitchell, Okoye. Seems we are covered at DE.

3-4 OLB - Barwin, Cushing. Depends on if Cushing plays inside or out. Robert Quinn or Von Miller would be a nice addition.

3-4 ILB? - Ryans, Cushing. Depends on if Cushing plays inside or out. Greg Jones in the 2nd?

CB - Another CB cant hurt this group.

FS - Not happy at all with Wilson. Nolan still green.

SS - Pollard seems to be struggling in coverage. But is playing great against the run, and provides a good pass rush.
 
Three things needed for a great 3-4:

1. A distruptive NT (doesn't have to be a monster, just needs to command double teams)

2. Pass rushing OLB

3. A FS/SS that can bltiz out of the secondary or come into the box to maximize the "Blitzer for nowhere" advantage of the 3-4.

I don't see the Texans having any of these yet. I think Cush goes inside, and Barwin is too big a question mark to count on.

Mark Anderson might be a good OLB though
 
The1ApplePie said:
Three things needed for a great 3-4:

1. A distruptive NT (doesn't have to be a monster, just needs to command double teams)

2. Pass rushing OLB

3. A FS/SS that can bltiz out of the secondary or come into the box to maximize the "Blitzer for nowhere" advantage of the 3-4.

I don't see the Texans having any of these yet. I think Cush goes inside, and Barwin is too big a question mark to count on.

Mark Anderson might be a good OLB though
Click to expand...

translation -

1. A two gap penetrator who can clog the "A" gap.
2. Move Pollard to blitzing OLB position
3. Worst case, Kareem Jackson/Troy Nolan
4. We have everything except that 3-4 NT
5. Yes, upgrades please apply
6. Anderson could be insurance for Barwin?
 
From Kubiak's comments the other day I think Pollard is done in Houston, I don't see him back. I've had high hopes Nolan will work out as a S but I think it would be naiive (historically consistent) for us to give him a spot. I think we need legitimate competition at both S spots. I hope a FA + draft pick here.

CB should be address in FA with a veteran.

LB is unkown because of injuries. I think we have some pieces for both the 3-4 and 4-3. We'll need depth at OLB because I think Demeco, Sharpton, Bentley and Diles provide a good ILB base. I don't like any of our current DEs moving to OLB on a full time basis except for Barwin. I think Mario, Smith, Anderson will get seriously exposed in coverage. I'm firmly against Mario moving.

This leaves the DL which has always been an achilles heal. Regardless of what we have, we will need to add a NT via FA and a guy from the Draft (any round to compete or groom). We could use a DE from the draft (starter competition or groom) depending on what the staff thinks of the DEs we got.

Free Agency
CB
S
NT

Draft
Safety
OLB
NT
DE

I see our 1st round pick going to DE, NT, OLB (wildcard is WR).
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
This leaves the DL which has always been an achilles heal.
Click to expand...

The Texans defense I was watching this year showed me that the DL was the best unit we had on that side of the ball. The best part of that is because we had big units at DE, they can still play a role in the 3-4 where little DE's like Freeney/Mathis couldn't.
 
This projection is based off of current front 7 players on the roster. They will add some defensive line help via the draft and free agency.

The entire secondary needs to be overhauled /and or at least compete for a starting job instead of having it gift wrapped. Our seondary is miserable regardless of a 4-3 or a 3-4 front. That needs 2 be wade's priority day one.

-----------------
Running downs:

rolb- Willaims
irlb - Cushing
illb - Ryans
lolb - Barwin

rde - Okoye
nt - Cody / Lewis
lde - Smith

-----------------
Clear passing downs:

rolb - Cushing
irlb - Ryans
illb - Sharpton
olb - Barwin

rde - Willaims
nt - smith
lde - Mitchell
 
this advertised switch to 3-4 is really bumming me out, don't know why, but it seems like we are just throwing away the last five years, like the Texans did after the first four years :facepalm:
 
Super Mario said:
Now that we know who are D coach is, and that we will play a 3-4 defense we should compile a list of needs.

NT - A Nick Fairley, Stephen Paea, would go a long way.

DE - Smith, Mario, Mitchell, Okoye. Seems we are covered at DE.

3-4 OLB - Barwin, Cushing. Depends on if Cushing plays inside or out. Robert Quinn or Von Miller would be a nice addition.

3-4 ILB? - Ryans, Cushing. Depends on if Cushing plays inside or out. Greg Jones in the 2nd?

CB - Another CB cant hurt this group.

FS - Not happy at all with Wilson. Nolan still green.

SS - Pollard seems to be struggling in coverage. But is playing great against the run, and provides a good pass rush.
Click to expand...

The new mock by Walterfootball has us picking Miller in the 1st. link http://walterfootball.com/draft2011_4.php

They have us taking a FS in the 2nd out of Maryland but I'd much rather have the FS from Oklahoma, Carter. Don't know anything about Tate from Maryland.
 
Man after looking at a lot of the prospects and potential draft rankings, this class looks really effing deep at DL (Pass rushing OLB's included). Going by that, and not really seeing any safeties that really pop like Thomas or Berry did last year, I'd have to say that the first pick is going to be somebody that will help either on the DL itself or with quarterback pressure.

All bets are off if Peterson or the guy from Nebraska named Prince declares, but I'm really liking what I see out of a lot of the defensive players. I'm okay if we miss out on Fairley (It's going to happen) because there are plenty of players that look like they will be available who can fit a 3-4. Paea, Von Miller, Clayborn, Quin, Kerrigan, all could probably fit in with what Phillips likes to do.

I also think that having a good crop of QB's is going to help defensive talent fall, and I could totally see Locker going in the top 10 as well as possibly a late riser like Blaine Gabbert.
 
Most of these players should be considered first round draft picks. Texans only get 1. Discuss.

******************DL*****************
Nick Fairley, DE/DT, Auburn
Marcell Dareus, DE/DT, Alabama
Da'Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson
Cameron Jordan, DE/DT, California
J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State
Cameron Heyward, DE/DT, Ohio State
Allen Bailey, DE/DT, Miami
Drake Nevis, DT, LSU

******************OLB*****************
Robert Quinn, OLB, North Carolina
Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M
Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA
Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue

******************WR*****************
A.J. Green, WR, Georgia
Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State

******************CB*****************
Janoris Jenkins, CB, Florida
Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
Aaron Williams, CB, Texas
 
beerlover said:
this advertised switch to 3-4 is really bumming me out, don't know why, but it seems like we are just throwing away the last five years, like the Texans did after the first four years :facepalm:
Click to expand...

The last 5 years defensively need to be throw out my friend.
 
beerlover said:
this advertised switch to 3-4 is really bumming me out, don't know why, but it seems like we are just throwing away the last five years, like the Texans did after the first four years :facepalm:
Click to expand...

I'm more stoked about a 3-4 run by wade phillips than a 4-3 that would be run by Richard Smith to be honest. I still don't know why him and Bush got to be coordinators, but at least with Wade you can say that he has experience on his side and has been there before.
 
Super Mario said:
Most of these players should be considered first round draft picks. Texans only get 1. Discuss.

******************DL*****************
Nick Fairley, DE/DT, Auburn
Marcell Dareus, DE/DT, Alabama
Da'Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson
Cameron Jordan, DE/DT, California
J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State
Cameron Heyward, DE/DT, Ohio State
Allen Bailey, DE/DT, Miami
Drake Nevis, DT, LSU

******************OLB*****************
Robert Quinn, OLB, North Carolina
Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M
Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA
Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue

******************WR*****************
A.J. Green, WR, Georgia
Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State

******************CB*****************
Janoris Jenkins, CB, Florida
Brandon Harris, CB, Miami
Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
Aaron Williams, CB, Texas
Click to expand...

Since Dareus is a 3-4 DL in college anyways, he would be ideal, but he's going way before the Texans pick. Quinn and Bowers as well.

Pea or Miller seem to be the best that will still be there.

Most might not like it, but getting Blackmon on offense could be a real boon. Get 35 points every game and hope the d holds on.
 
I have always been against it, but this might be a year to trade a 1st next year, for a 1st this year.

Take Blackmon at 11, and get our pass rush linebacker or NT.
 
I did want to mention that after a little research, a Wade Phillips defense or team is just as likely to draft a WR, RB, QB, CB or OL as they are to draft a DL and rush LB. Even when transitioning a defense to the 3-4.

Just something to consider. We all assume NT or OLB in the first 2 rounds, but that might not be the case.
 
Super Mario said:
I did want to mention that after a little research, a Wade Phillips defense or team is just as likely to draft a WR, RB, QB, CB or OL as they are to draft a DL and rush LB. Even when transitioning a defense to the 3-4.

Just something to consider. We all assume NT or OLB in the first 2 rounds, but that might not be the case.
Click to expand...

Its the draft; anything is possible.
 
Super Mario said:
Now that we know who are D coach is, and that we will play a 3-4 defense we should compile a list of needs.

NT - A Nick Fairley, Stephen Paea, would go a long way.

DE - Smith, Mario, Mitchell, Okoye. Seems we are covered at DE.

3-4 OLB - Barwin, Cushing. Depends on if Cushing plays inside or out. Robert Quinn or Von Miller would be a nice addition.

3-4 ILB? - Ryans, Cushing. Depends on if Cushing plays inside or out. Greg Jones in the 2nd?

CB - Another CB cant hurt this group.

FS - Not happy at all with Wilson. Nolan still green.

SS - Pollard seems to be struggling in coverage. But is playing great against the run, and provides a good pass rush.
Click to expand...

Champ Bailey wants out of Denver and wants to switch to FS. This to me would be a good pickup for a couple of years as you would upgrade the FS position and have a built in coach on D for our young corners while we are on the field. Just a thought.
 
IMO, when considering who we might draft or FA it is important to keep in mind that Wades 34 is a 1 gape style vs. the usual 2 gap. Players are a bit different for them.
 
edo783 said:
IMO, when considering who we might draft or FA it is important to keep in mind that Wades 34 is a 1 gape style vs. the usual 2 gap. Players are a bit different for them.
Click to expand...

I agree! The Philips mold of the 34 calls for lighter quicker penetrators on the DL.



Damn, that sounds familiar!
 
Texan4Ever said:
If he could play nose tackle, he could be the athletic type that Wade would want to plug into the middle.
Click to expand...

so can/will Texans afford to just stand pat #11? we have three maybe four acceptable picks, four different positions for Wade to choose from?

  1. JJ WATT, DE
  2. VON MILLER, OLB
  3. STEPHEN PAEA, DT
  4. BRANDON HARRIS, CB
 
Hopefully there will be a trade down that happens. The Packers would make a great trade down partner. (Ingram)

The more picks the merrier.

BL What do you think of taking Jeremy Beal as a possible 2nd rd. pick?

I'm warming to

Blackmon in the 1st and Beal in the 2nd

Thinking back to last yr Smithiak should've gone BPA in the 1st Bryant. If Blackmon is on the board they should consider taking him. AJ and Blackmon would help open up the offense.

While the defense stunk. The offense wasn't lights out. I dont care what the stats say. Blackmon is the real deal.

Not saying I would do this. But it should be under consideration.
 
What does everybody think of Sione Fua out of Stanford? Stanford ran a 3-4 defense I believe this year. Does he fit the mold & what round do you expect him to go in?
 
JCTexan said:
What does everybody think of Sione Fua out of Stanford? Stanford ran a 3-4 defense I believe this year. Does he fit the mold & what round do you expect him to go in?
Click to expand...

He's my #1 NT.

Great player

I haven't see Ellis play. But rmartin says he's really good. If that's the case I could see Ellis going before Fua.

Fua = late rd.2 early rd.3

What rd is Corey Liguet expected to go in? It seems like he would be a good fit in Phillips defense. He's a little undersized to play NT, but he is a player. He has a very strong lower body. Reminds me alot of Ratliff.
 
b0ng said:
Man after looking at a lot of the prospects and potential draft rankings, this class looks really effing deep at DL (Pass rushing OLB's included). Going by that, and not really seeing any safeties that really pop like Thomas or Berry did last year, I'd have to say that the first pick is going to be somebody that will help either on the DL itself or with quarterback pressure.

All bets are off if Peterson or the guy from Nebraska named Prince declares, but I'm really liking what I see out of a lot of the defensive players. I'm okay if we miss out on Fairley (It's going to happen) because there are plenty of players that look like they will be available who can fit a 3-4. Paea, Von Miller, Clayborn, Quin, Kerrigan, all could probably fit in with what Phillips likes to do.

I also think that having a good crop of QB's is going to help defensive talent fall, and I could totally see Locker going in the top 10 as well as possibly a late riser like Blaine Gabbert.
Click to expand...
Yes there will be a big group of solid players that are made for the 3/4 that should be available at our pick. I just hope they make the right choice.
 
Herzlich is looking good.

Forced fumble and a few tackles in the 1st qtr.

Always seems to be in the right place.
 
steelbtexan said:
Herzlich is looking good.

Forced fumble and a few tackles in the 1st qtr.

Always seems to be in the right place.
Click to expand...


I want us to target Mark Herzlich, he is a fighter who will never quit on plays. Pair him up with Brian Cushing to train together and he'll be a beast in no time.

beerlover said:
so can/will Texans afford to just stand pat #11? we have three maybe four acceptable picks, four different positions for Wade to choose from?

  1. JJ WATT, DE
  2. VON MILLER, OLB
  3. STEPHEN PAEA, DT
  4. BRANDON HARRIS, CB
Click to expand...


If Paea is not there then we can move down and take Harris or pull the trigger and gamble on Von Miller.
 
Wade mentions its all about the front 7 in the 3-4 (makes sense 3+4 does = 7 see this stuff really isn't rocket science afterall). So if we take him at his word, along with comments the Texans have enough good linemen already here doesn't that suggest his sights are set in fixing the linebacker position, either a OLB or ILB, maybe both?

these positions can be addressed after the first day, heck NT for that matter too, Cowboys drafted Jay Ratcliff in the 7th rd. point being Texans should focus on taking the bpa 11th overall, wade is gonna make everything alright on the defensive side of the ball, Kubiak would be elated to give Andre a dynamic #2 WR like Julio Jones (Smith & Kubiak love them some crimson tide).

just some random thoughts after Wade's press conference :wadepalm:
 
beerlover said:
Wade mentions its all about the front 7 in the 3-4 (makes sense 3+4 does = 7 see this stuff really isn't rocket science afterall).
Click to expand...

*Pulls out calculator.* Tap tap tap tap. Tap tap tap tap. Holly hell he is right!

beerlover said:
So if we take him at his word, along with comments the Texans have enough good linemen already here doesn't that suggest his sights are set in fixing the linebacker position, either a OLB or ILB, maybe both?

these positions can be addressed after the first day, heck NT for that matter too, Cowboys drafted Jay Ratcliff in the 7th rd. point being Texans should focus on taking the bpa 11th overall, wade is gonna make everything alright on the defensive side of the ball, Kubiak would be elated to give Andre a dynamic #2 WR like Julio Jones (Smith & Kubiak love them some crimson tide).

just some random thoughts after Wade's press conference :wadepalm:
Click to expand...

Most people agree that in the first one to two rounds that you should take BPA. Get the most bang for your buck. After that you can pick and choose who fits your scheme best. I am all for the Texans taking a WR round 1 as long as his name rhymes with Bustin Flackmon.
 
I think his point about the front 7 is that that is where the difference is between the 3-4 and the 4-3, the back end plays the same either way.

Well that is how I interpreted it.
 
Super Mario said:
Most people agree that in the first one to two rounds that you should take BPA. Get the most bang for your buck. After that you can pick and choose who fits your scheme best. I am all for the Texans taking a WR round 1 as long as his name rhymes with Bustin Flackmon.
Click to expand...

Julio Jones is the better WR. When Julio Jones is on, he is easily the best WR in the nation. He's better than Green and Blackmon. Julio just doesn't have it turned on all the time.

This is the best top end WR draft in a while. I don't think AJ Green is going to go to route of Charles Rogers, but from a physical standpoint, I think Julio better compares to Andre than anyone else. If I'm drafting a WR early this year, it's Julio Jones.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Julio Jones is the better WR. When Julio Jones is on, he is easily the best WR in the nation. He's better than Green and Blackmon. Julio just doesn't have it turned on all the time.

This is the best top end WR draft in a while. I don't think AJ Green is going to go to route of Charles Rogers, but from a physical standpoint, I think Julio better compares to Andre than anyone else. If I'm drafting a WR early this year, it's Julio Jones.
Click to expand...

Julio would fit perfectly, in tandem with Andre, brings some different tools & go to red-zone weapon for Schaub & Kubiak to target. Also Jacoby is a free agent.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Julio Jones is the better WR. When Julio Jones is on, he is easily the best WR in the nation. He's better than Green and Blackmon. Julio just doesn't have it turned on all the time.

This is the best top end WR draft in a while. I don't think AJ Green is going to go to route of Charles Rogers, but from a physical standpoint, I think Julio better compares to Andre than anyone else. If I'm drafting a WR early this year, it's Julio Jones.
Click to expand...
Interesting thoughts. I hate to stray away from the 3-4 thread topic but of the 3 WRs (Green, Blackmon and Jones) who do yall think would COMPLIMENT our team the most? Starting opposite Andre and then Walter will get some snaps. But as far as the Texans go, who would fill the #2 spot the best?
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
Interesting thoughts. I hate to stray away from the 3-4 thread topic but of the 3 WRs (Green, Blackmon and Jones) who do yall think would COMPLIMENT our team the most? Starting opposite Andre and then Walter will get some snaps. But as far as the Texans go, who would fill the #2 spot the best?
Click to expand...

If Jones is a bit on and off, I think we have one of those in our own Jones so i don't see that working that great.

I think Blackmon could be the guy.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
If Jones is a bit on and off, I think we have one of those in our own Jones so i don't see that working that great.

I think Blackmon could be the guy.
Click to expand...

He's not that on and off. He's mostly on. He needs a little motivation at times. He's on and off like Andre was coming out of Miami, expect Julio is more polished. Andre had better top end speed and vertical, but Julio is more polished.
 
Andre with Julio is a better 1-2 punch, their styles compliment one another. as oppossed to Blackmon who I question would accept the role of a #2 with similar skill set of size & speed.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Julio Jones is the better WR. When Julio Jones is on, he is easily the best WR in the nation. He's better than Green and Blackmon. Julio just doesn't have it turned on all the time.

This is the best top end WR draft in a while. I don't think AJ Green is going to go to route of Charles Rogers, but from a physical standpoint, I think Julio better compares to Andre than anyone else. If I'm drafting a WR early this year, it's Julio Jones.
Click to expand...

I have Quintorris Lopez Jones rated 3rd behind both Adriel Jeremiah Green and Justin Blackmon.

I like how Green and Blackmon find the endzone. Jones has 15 career touchdowns. Only 7 this year. Green had 9 in 9 games, and Blackmon had an amazing 20 this year. Also Blackmon is very powerful. Dude topped 100 yards in EVERY game he played in this year. Had multi-touchdown games 6 times this year. They are all good players. In the games ive watched, Jones just doesnt do it for me.
 
beerlover said:
Andre with Julio is a better 1-2 punch, their styles compliment one another. as oppossed to Blackmon who I question would accept the role of a #2 with similar skill set of size & speed.
Click to expand...

I dont understand how you can debate what role any of the WR's would accept.
 
If the Texans plan on going for Blackmon or Jones (assume Green's off the board), then I don't think they can risk trading back at all in the first. Look at the teams behind them that need a WR. The Rams for sure, Jags, Patriots, Chargers and Bucs could all use some WR help. Even the Redskins at 10 may go with Jones or Blackmon, as they seem to have no help for Santana Moss.

I dunno about this WR in the 1st idea, our offense seemed to do well enough this year that I think we can wait till the 3rd-5th round to pick up one or two. I think with our new defense, we would be better off using the 1st round pick to add to the front 7 and/or trade back to get more picks to fill holes. 11th is a very good spot to use for trading back and we may be able to sell one of those WRs or QBs for a late first, second and fourth pick instead.


ORDER OF SELECTION: 2011 NFL DRAFT
Team W-L Win Pct Strength of Schedule**
1. Panthers 2-14 .125 .574
2. Broncos 4-12 .250 .516
3. Bills 4-12 .250 .578
4. Bengals 4-12 .250 .582
5. Cardinals 5-11 .313 .465
6. Browns 5-11 .313 .570
7. 49ers 6-10 .375 .488
8. Titans 6-10 .375 .508
9. Cowboys 6-10 .375 .512
10. Redskins 6-10 .375 .516
11. Texans 6-10 .375 .523
12. Vikings 6-10 .375 .539
13. Lions 6-10 .375 .543
14. Rams 7-9 .438 .449
15. Dolphins 7-9 .438 .539
16. Jaguars 8-8 .500 .453
17. Patriots 14-2 .875 .504
18. Chargers 9-7 .563 .457
19. Giants 10-6 .625 .453
20. Buccaneers 10-6 .625 .477
Click to expand...
 
Dutchrudder said:
I dunno about this WR in the 1st idea, our offense seemed to do well enough this year that I think we can wait till the 3rd-5th round to pick up one or two. I think with our new defense, we would be better off using the 1st round pick to add to the front 7 and/or trade back to get more picks to fill holes. 11th is a very good spot to use for trading back and we may be able to sell one of those WRs or QBs for a late first, second and fourth pick instead.
Click to expand...

I like your thinking. With what you propose, what kind of package would you put together with those extra picks?
 
thunderkyss said:
I like your thinking. With what you propose, what kind of package would you put together with those extra picks?
Click to expand...

DE with the 1st (Cam Heyward looks like a good pick for 17-25th)
FS with the 2nd (Deunta Williams might be there)
ILB or OLB with the 4th for depth since we may not re-sign both Diles and Bentley.

Use the normal 2nd and 3rd round picks for CB/DT and you could turn this defense around real quick with the addition of a couple free agents (Spears, Wilson, Bailey and/or Aso)

Use the Texan's 4th round pick on a WR, and the rest BPA.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top