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Saints-Cowboys

Well, the Cowboys got some MAJOR home cooking on their last touchdown. Jason Witten had a fistful of jersey close to the play for all to see except the officials.

Still, Nawlans just made it 23-13. Reggie Bush is back but ineffective unless you count trying to catch the football with his helmet...lol.
 
The only reason the Girls got their 1st TD is that an unbelievably gross hold (and hold and hold) by the Girls on the N.O. secondary was ignored, even though it occur in line of the run and right next to the zebra.
 
I picked Dallas but would much rather see them lose. Watching New Orleans today is like looking at a negative print of a Texans game, but with the same result likely.
 
As the gurls were missing that field goal, she laughed and sang out...

Cowboys still suck!



LMAO!!!
 
Showtime100 said:
I picked Dallas but would much rather see them lose. Watching New Orleans today is like looking at a negative print of a Texans game, but with the same result likely.
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I thought the same thing, the only difference is I thought Dallas did the Texans impersonation. They had the game wrapped up with the Williams first down, and what does he do? He fumbles the ball at the 11 yard line. New Orleans drives down the field way too easy to win the game. Hopefully it sticks with Dallas so Houston can get rid of the bad luck/defense. :kitten:
 
I don't get it, why do the Saints keep litl Reggie around, let alone pay him what they do to keep him around ? He almost cost them the game after being layed up for months and months with an injury. Easily the most overrated and overpaid player in the NFL.
 
IDEXAN said:
I don't get it, why do the Saints keep litl Reggie around, let alone pay him what they do to keep him around ? He almost cost them the game after being layed up for months and months with an injury. Easily the most overrated and overpaid player in the NFL.
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Because he's instrumental to what we do. He was instrumental last year. Does he have bad games? Yep. Is he the best player from that draft? Nope. Has he underperformed, generally speaking, for my liking? Yep. Is he overpaid? Yes and no. I think another team in the NFL would pay what we pay him because of what he means to the offense. Do I think that number is probably too high? Yea.

But the question: "Why do the Saints keep him around?" is a silly one.

How many Texans have cost the Texans games? Did you cut them all?

I also don't think you watch much Saints football. The guy definitely makes people pay attention to him. There were several plays last year that not many other players would've been able to make. Including the touchdown he made in the NFCCG and we all know how close that game was. of course he also had a punt fumble that fortunately didn't cost us, ultimately. He also played a crucial role in the game against Arizona in establishing the pace of the game - with 2 TDs, one on an electric run with a jawdropping stop and start and hop - he was phenomenal.

Those two games led to the Saints going to the Super Bowl. And he played a significant role.

I was more disappointed in Reggie's drop on a pass from Drew a few plays earlier than I was in the fumble on the punt return. The fumble was a great play by the defender.

And the Saints preach and teach and practice going for the ball - so I'm more likely to assign Credit to the Defender on fumbles like that. Take the Malcolm Jenkins rip of the ball out of Williams hands that saved the game and gave use life - he stripped that ball. He worked on that.

However, the pass that could've been a TD - certainly a first down on that drive - hit him in the hands and he was open. That was something he had entire control over -

He had a bad game. He came off two months and a broken leg. While I wasn't happy with the performance - it was clear he wasn't quite up to speed.

I'm certainly not ready to toss him away.

You might also be interested in a well-written article that shows the impact Bush's presence has on defensive formations:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...s-return-gives-saints-muchneeded-threat-decoy

the article closes with:

For all he can do, Bush is not a full-time starter who gets 20-25 touches a game. On a good day, he receives the ball 10-12 times like he did in the playoff game against the Cardinals (12 touches for 217 all-purpose yards and two touchdowns). Usually he touches the ball just six to seven times a game, but that number is deceiving for what he does to opposing defenses. Ask any defensive coach who has to play against him and they will tell you they respect him as a decoy and they lose sleep thinking about the matchup problems he causes in all of his different alignments.

"Because Bush has been out since Week 2, we are going back and putting a video together of all the things he did last year and where he does it from," a head coach who is soon scheduled to play the Saints said to me. "We have to make our players aware of him."
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I, for one, like having him around and I think he means a lot to our offense.

There's a definite difference in how teams play us.

Look at the pressure up the middle from the LBers - lots of stunts from OLBs trying to get pressure up the middle on Brees.

They have the freedom when they don't have to account for Bush. ANd pressure up the middle affects Brees and his pocket more than pressure from anywhere else. That was the case this year - I have seen more push up the middle than I did nearly all of last year.

Reggie is also our best blocking running back. The blocking from RBs this year has been terrible. Julius Jones isn't a big fan of contact. Ladell Betts was football-dumb. And Chris Ivory is an UDFA rookie from a small college. These guys cannot block like Bush does. He really is a strong blocker - and he excels at blitz pickup and getting chips on guys on the outside and then finding space as a checkdown receiver.

Arguably, we've missed that part of his game more than most others with the pressure Drew has been seeing.

If you're going to evaluate a guy, how about looking at the entire picture rather than passing judgment on a fumbled punt (which I don't think he should've taken in the first place, in his first game back - Moore was out there earlier and I preferred that route) in a single game and then asking, "Why do they keep him around?"
 
The Cowgirls have been getting lots of favorable (questionable) calls and lots of No calls over the past 3 weeks. Could it be that the officials and league want to see a Cinderella story? The Aints beat these cats by a field goal, but face it, the refs got that score closer than it should have been.
 
RazorOye said:
Because he's instrumental to what we do. He was instrumental last year. Does he have bad games? Yep. Is he the best player from that draft? Nope. Has he underperformed, generally speaking, for my liking? Yep. Is he overpaid? Yes and no. I think another team in the NFL would pay what we pay him because of what he means to the offense. Do I think that number is probably too high? Yea.

But the question: "Why do the Saints keep him around?" is a silly one.

How many Texans have cost the Texans games? Did you cut them all?

I also don't think you watch much Saints football. The guy definitely makes people pay attention to him. There were several plays last year that not many other players would've been able to make. Including the touchdown he made in the NFCCG and we all know how close that game was. of course he also had a punt fumble that fortunately didn't cost us, ultimately. He also played a crucial role in the game against Arizona in establishing the pace of the game - with 2 TDs, one on an electric run with a jawdropping stop and start and hop - he was phenomenal.

Those two games led to the Saints going to the Super Bowl. And he played a significant role.

I was more disappointed in Reggie's drop on a pass from Drew a few plays earlier than I was in the fumble on the punt return. The fumble was a great play by the defender.

And the Saints preach and teach and practice going for the ball - so I'm more likely to assign Credit to the Defender on fumbles like that. Take the Malcolm Jenkins rip of the ball out of Williams hands that saved the game and gave use life - he stripped that ball. He worked on that.

However, the pass that could've been a TD - certainly a first down on that drive - hit him in the hands and he was open. That was something he had entire control over -

He had a bad game. He came off two months and a broken leg. While I wasn't happy with the performance - it was clear he wasn't quite up to speed.

I'm certainly not ready to toss him away.


I, for one, like having him around and I think he means a lot to our offense.

There's a definite difference in how teams play us.

Look at the pressure up the middle from the LBers - lots of stunts from OLBs trying to get pressure up the middle on Brees.

They have the freedom when they don't have to account for Bush. ANd pressure up the middle affects Brees and his pocket more than pressure from anywhere else. That was the case this year - I have seen more push up the middle than I did nearly all of last year.

Reggie is also our best blocking running back. The blocking from RBs this year has been terrible. Julius Jones isn't a big fan of contact. Ladell Betts was football-dumb. And Chris Ivory is an UDFA rookie from a small college. These guys cannot block like Bush does. He really is a strong blocker - and he excels at blitz pickup and getting chips on guys on the outside and then finding space as a checkdown receiver.

Arguably, we've missed that part of his game more than most others with the pressure Drew has been seeing.

If you're going to evaluate a guy, how about looking at the entire picture rather than passing judgment on a fumbled punt (which I don't think he should've taken in the first place, in his first game back - Moore was out there earlier and I preferred that route) in a single game and then asking, "Why do they keep him around?"
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It's been well established for years now that Bush is not an NFL running back, let alone a feature NFL running back. He's a pretty good punt-returner, and
a 3-rd down back, but not anywhwere worth the money the Saints paid him to play this year IMO.
But the guy has a total aversion to contact and is very fragile as he's been
knocked out of may games and more than once has missed many, many consecutive games.
I saw Bush play in Houston in a regular season game in 2007 and saw him on multiple occasions when he had the ball, he'd fall down intentionally without being hit and stay down so he wouldn't get tackled. He's just not really much of a football player.
Mario Williams wasn't the best player coming out of the 2006 Draft IMO but he's in the conversation. Bush isn't even remotely in the conversation and wasn't worthy of being taken in the first round. And he's not even among the top players at his position in the '06 Draft, let alone in the NFL at large.
It's a total mystery to me why the Saints picked up his option this year, other than lots and lots of NOLA fans like you just like him for whatever reason ? Guess he's kinda a club mascot ?
And I watch Saints games when I get a chance, and have seen several this year ? I like the Saints, but continue to wonder about the front offices wisdom in carrying Bush at the cost they have to pay to keep him around ?
 
Dread-Head said:
The Cowgirls have been getting lots of favorable (questionable) calls and lots of No calls over the past 3 weeks. Could it be that the officials and league want to see a Cinderella story? The Aints beat these cats by a field goal, but face it, the refs got that score closer than it should have been.
Click to expand...

the no calls were frustrating.

Witten was mugging Jenkins on that TD.

There was an "Illegal Use of the Hands" called on Alex Brown (I think it was) - on the replay - BOTH tackles had their hands on the facemask, grabbing the Saints DEs, both Brown and Smith. Brown used his hands to swipe them away and I guess that's what they called.

Brooking was a full split second early on key conversion attempt.

Aikman commented on all of these. For him to make note, they were egregious.

I thought the holding call on Evans on the TD run was absolutely borderline, but I could at least see an argument made for that.

But yea, it was rough.
IDEXAN said:
But the guy has a total aversion to contact and is very fragile as he's been
knocked out of may games and more than once has missed many, many consecutive games.
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this makes me think you haven't watched him much lately. He absolutely has been making more contact lately. Especially last season and this season. Kromer and the coaches have been working on this, specifically.

Even Darren Sharper when he arrived couldn't get over how strong Bush was working out and told him he needed to stop looking to go out of bounds.

And the difference has been considerable.

Is he fragile? Not denying it.

But for you to say that the physicality of his game hasn't evolved suggests to me that you haven't seen much Saints football.

IDEXAN said:
I saw Bush play in Houston in a regular season game in 2007
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.... and, there it is

IDEXAN said:
It's a total mystery to me why the Saints picked up his option this year, other than lots and lots of NOLA fans like you just like him for whatever reason ? Guess he's kinda a club mascot ?
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it's not really a mystery to me or to most people around here who watch him regularly.

ANd I've listed why I like him - and it's not for "whatever reason". you're just ignoring my points because your perspective of close-mindedness is overstated and thus, indefensible. So you reach for things that aren't even there in response.

I've also pointed out negatives about him - I'm not nearly his biggest fan and I've been quick to criticize him when he's screwed up.

But I listed specific reasons why I think he's important. Several of them. You're just ignoring them - but that's entirely consistent with your general ignorance in this regard, so I'm not surprised.

He's the 3rd or 4th best skill position player on that side of the ball. And I'd argue that his production/role/skillset is 3rd toughest for us to replace when he does go down (which is certainly too often for me)

Drew Brees - simply irreplaceable. We are largely lost without him. No doubt.
Marques Colston - his size and ability to control his body in the air and take hits is something no other WR on the roster possesses
Reggie Bush - his combination of special teams play, running, receiving, blocking - the best we got to replace him this year was a combination of using Lance Moore and Julius Jones.

As for the club mascot comment? What a joke. It's clear that of the two of us, the lesser biased is the Saints homer. Who would you say is the 3rd toughest to replace on the Texans offense? Who is the 3rd/4th most important? Owen Daniels (also no stranger to the injury list) - would you call him the 'club mascot'? Completely and ignorantly dismissive. Which hurts the credibility of your entire post, imo

but continue to wonder about the front offices wisdom in carrying Bush at the cost they have to pay to keep him around ?
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I think you're working too hard. The answers aren't that hard to find.

I've already conceded the following:

he's overpaid (but other teams will pay the same to get him, and I'd rather pay and keep him - if it gets higher, the decision gets tougher)
he's not what we expected out of college
he's injured too much

So I'm not acting like the guy hung the moon. We could still win without him - and have. But it is a lot tougher. In the short receiving game, in the running game, and in pass protection.

But ultimately, I think your opinion is extremely, extremely limited. If you think and believe that Bush runs the same way and shows the same aversion to contact that he did 3-4 seasons ago, then it's absolutely clear you don't watch much/enough Saints football.
 
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RazorOye said:
But ultimately, I think your opinion is extremely, extremely limited. If you think and believe that Bush runs the same way and shows the same aversion to contact that he did 3-4 seasons ago, then it's absolutely clear you don't watch much/enough Saints football.
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How can I evaluate Bush in 2010, he's practically been out all year with some kind of injury ? Probably been off in SoCal hanging out with his slut-girl friend filming porn flics while he's getting big checks every week from the Saints while the rest of the team is winning games for NOLA.
Hey man the Saints have some really good football players on their team, why didn't you pick one of them as your hero instead of this little Heisman fraud ?
 
When Bush is healthy he is not that bad at all. He has been out for seven games and he was rusty on Thursday that is all. I don't know him off of the football field nor is that my job but I have learned with the Farve saga to never take a personal liking to any sports star because I just do not know them nor do you. I just respect them all for what they do on the field and that's all. That is my new outlook on these people not just sports but also movie and on the T.V. too. I don't care what any player does behind closed doors anymore it just do not concern you or me. Is Reggie ever going to be the very best in the league? Nope, but anyone who watches him play has to admit he does keep the D on their toes and very alert.
 
IDEXAN said:
Probably been off in SoCal hanging out with his slut-girl friend filming porn flics while he's getting big checks every week from the Saints while the rest of the team is winning games for NOLA.
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really? lmao

lotta quality football discussion there

Thanks - you've saved me the trouble of discrediting your entire contribution to this thread.

IDEXAN said:
Hey man the Saints have some really good football players on their team, why didn't you pick one of them as your hero instead of this little Heisman fraud ?
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where did I say or suggest that Bush is my hero?

Or is this another accusation you're pulling out of your ass with no evidence, no support, no context?

Show me on this thread or any other thread where I've held Bush up as some sort of personal hero.

Stop throwing out the empty accusations. Demonstrate something, anything.

I've cited negatives about him several times. In this and many other threads. But you ignore those concessions because if you acknowledged them, you'd have to admit that I don't see him as some sort of hero. But ignorance such as yours can't be bogged down by things like "facts" or "evidence" or "truth" or "support" - nah, that's just not the IDEXAN way, now, fellers.

Also, he's not my favorite player on the team. If you're interested, players I like better than Bush:

Brees
Vilma
Hargrove (great personal story and I root like her for him)
Shockey (always liked him - even as a Giant, thrilled he became a Saint)
Porter (local boy makes good)
Greer (highly underrated)
Jenkins
Evans/Nicks (love watching this combo toss people around with attitude)

But you couldn't be troubled to ask me that, could you? It would've been easy.

But you couldn't, because you have to predicate your argument on ignorance, thin football knowledge, personal accusations with no merit, base insults, very little observable proof, non sequiturs, assumptions, and the like.

gary said:
Nope, but anyone who watches him play has to admit he does keep the D on their toes and very alert.
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In one line, gary's managed to out-contribute IDEXAN.

And yes, gary, I think he has a fair amount of value in this regard. Is it worth what we're paying him? That's a tough question - personally, I'm comfortable with it. I think the front office has managed contracts well - Loomis has gotten much more right than he's gotten wrong.

I wish he'd stay healthier. I wish he'd have identified the north/south running light earlier than he has. But he is a significant asset on the offensive side of the ball -
 
RazorOye said:
really? lmao

lotta quality football discussion there

Thanks - you've saved me the trouble of discrediting your entire contribution to this thread.



where did I say or suggest that Bush is my hero?

Or is this another accusation you're pulling out of your ass with no evidence, no support, no context?

Show me on this thread or any other thread where I've held Bush up as some sort of personal hero.

Stop throwing out the empty accusations. Demonstrate something, anything.

I've cited negatives about him several times. In this and many other threads. But you ignore those concessions because if you acknowledged them, you'd have to admit that I don't see him as some sort of hero. But ignorance such as yours can't be bogged down by things like "facts" or "evidence" or "truth" or "support" - nah, that's just not the IDEXAN way, now, fellers.

Also, he's not my favorite player on the team. If you're interested, players I like better than Bush:

Brees
Vilma
Hargrove (great personal story and I root like her for him)
Shockey (always liked him - even as a Giant, thrilled he became a Saint)
Porter (local boy makes good)
Greer (highly underrated)
Jenkins
Evans/Nicks (love watching this combo toss people around with attitude)

But you couldn't be troubled to ask me that, could you? It would've been easy.

But you couldn't, because you have to predicate your argument on ignorance, thin football knowledge, personal accusations with no merit, base insults, very little observable proof, non sequiturs, assumptions, and the like.



In one line, gary's managed to out-contribute IDEXAN.

And yes, gary, I think he has a fair amount of value in this regard. Is it worth what we're paying him? That's a tough question - personally, I'm comfortable with it. I think the front office has managed contracts well - Loomis has gotten much more right than he's gotten wrong.

I wish he'd stay healthier. I wish he'd have identified the north/south running light earlier than he has. But he is a significant asset on the offensive side of the ball -
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Just the fact that he out there makes the Saints a lot better football team. Repped.
 
I finally thought of something positive to say about little Reggie: he gets credit for single-handedly bringing down one of the most prominent football programs in the country. And that's not an easy accomplishment considering how much juice USC has with the NCAA.
 
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