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Greatest ________ of All Time?

Hervoyel

Hervoyel

BUENO!
I was thinking the other day after reading one of the many Andre Johnson pieces out there about how great he is that AJ is clearly, without any doubt the single greatest Houston Texan of all time. "All Time" of course being 2002-2010 for us in this case. In fact he earns that distinction not only with pure statistical domination but also longevity and fan affection. If every team in the NFL had to pick one player who was "Mr. insert team name here" he'd be Mr Houston Texans.

That got me wondering who the greatest player of the other 31 teams was. Some are easier than others but I'm curious what the rest of you think. Just to begin who is All-Time Greatest Houston Oiler? How about All-Time Greatest Tennessee Titan? I'm for naming two of them since the team has essentially two "stages" of its existence with little crossover there.

I'm thinking Greatest Oiler is Earl Campbell and Greatest Titan is probably Steve McNair.

How about the AFC South? Greatest Colt, Jaguar, Titan, and Texan. What do you think?

(Do you go "Baltimore Colt" and "Indianapolis Colt" and split them like you do the Oilers/Titans?)
 
If I'm going Colts from the early days on then it would be a toss up of Manning and Johnny Unitas with Unitas getting an edge for me.

Jags-Brunell, Fred Taylor and Jimmy Smith

Titan--McNair or Eddie George

Texans--AJ

Oiler--Earl
 
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A few come to mind:

Browns - Jim Brown

Lions - Barry Sanders

Patriots - Tom Brady

49ers - Jerry Rice

Ravens - Ray Lewis

Colts - Peyton Manning or Unitas?

Saints - I think Drew Brees wins now.

Rams - Kurt Warner or Marshall Faulk

Bills - Jim Kelley

Packers - Reggie White

Giants - Lawrence Taylor

Bears - (lots to choose) Walter Payton, Mike Ditka, Dick Butkus, Refrigerator Perry

Dolphins - Dan Marino or Larry Csonka

Broncos - John Elway or Terrelle Davis

Edit: Eagles - Norm Van Brocklin AKA "The Dutchman"
 
Interesting thread Herv.

Jets - Namath

Patriots - Brady

Phins - Marino

Bills - Kelly (One of the most underrated QB's of all time in my opinion)


Broncos - Elway

Raiders - Marcus Allen

Chiefs - Len Dawson

Chargers - Junior Seau



Texans - AJ

Titans - Mcnair

Jags - Jimmy Smith

Colts - Manning


Steelers - Lambert

Ravens - Ray Lewis

Browns - Jim Brown

Bengals - No one was good enough to be the best over the rest.


I'll do my NFC picks a little later.
 
Dutchrudder said:
A few come to mind:

Browns - Jim Brown

Lions - Barry Sanders

Patriots - Tom Brady

49ers - Jerry Rice

Ravens - Ray Lewis

Colts - Peyton Manning or Unitas?

Saints - I think Drew Brees wins now.

Rams - Kurt Warner

Bills - Jim Kelley

Packers - Reggie White

Giants - Lawrence Taylor

Bears - (lots to choose) Walter Payton, Mike Ditka, Dick Butkus, Refrigerator Perry

Dolphins - Dan Marino

Broncos - John Elway

Edit: Eagles - Norm Van Brocklin AKA "The Dutchman"
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I don't see how at all Reggie White could be the best Packer of all time when he didn't even spend the majority of his career over there.

Favre and Bart Starr were easily ahead of Reggie White and Ray Nitschkie might be ahead of Reggie White as well even as the best defensive player of all time that the Packers ever had.

For the Packers though, Favre takes it hands down despite how badly people hate the guy now.
 
I'm cheating because I'm including a couple coaches.

Colts: Unitas
Jacksonville Jags: Brunell? Jimmy Smith? *cough*Boselli*cough*
Titans: Kevin Dyson (my all-time fave Titan)
Texans: AJ, of course

AFC North

Ravens: Ray Lewis
Steelers: tough one, so I am going to say Chuck Noll
Bengals: Ken Anderson? Esiason?
Browns: Jim Brown

AFC West

Broncos: Elway, of course
Chargers: Fouts? Tomlinson? Seau?
Raiders: Like the Steelers, too many. I say Al Davis because he represents what the club used to be and simultaneously what it is currently.
Chiefs: Len Dawson

AFC East

Patriots: Brady *ugh*
Jets: Namath, still.
Dolphins: Marino, maybe Shula.
Bills: Jim Kelly

NFC North

Packers: Lombardi over Starr
Bears: Walter Payton
Lions: Barry Sanders
Vikings: for me, it's Alan Page, but I might be weird.

NFC South

Panthers: wow ... Delhomme? maybe Steve Smith?
Falcons: Bartkowski, maybe
Saints: it might already be Brees, but I'll say Sam Mills because that guy was the heart of that awesome defense they had in the '80s.
Bucs: Warren Sapp, maybe?

NFC East

Cowboys: Staubach
Redskins: Riggins, maybe ..... maybe Darrell Green?
Eagles: Chuck Bednarik
Giants: Lawrence Taylor

NFC West

49ers: Joe Montana, because he thrived in the WCO and started that dynasty.
Cardinals: Dan Dierdorf? Vai Sikahema! ;)
Seahawks: Largent
Rams: Marshall Faulk, at the risk of brushing over years of team history - EDIT: changing vote to Deacon Jones
 
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See, I think a coach could be that guy. "The Greatest Packer of All-Time" could be Vince Lombardi I believe, I don't know if I'd pick him but I think a very good case could be made. Similarly with Tom Landry.

I think it's interesting and now I'm wondering what the actual fans of each team would say. I'm thinking about going on a multi-board fact finding mission and getting a consensus from each teams fans. Are we really qualified to say who the greatest Detroit Lion of all time is? Probably not but Lions fans might be.

Like I said there are some easy ones. Jim Brown for Cleveland comes to mind fairly quickly. I don't know if all Browns fans would agree though. Maybe some of them would want Bernie Kosar or Oz?
 
Greatest Oiler Campbell but George Blanda would not be far behind. Greatest NFL, Jim Brown. Greatest Houston Oiler and Texan fan would be me.
 
Hervoyel said:
See, I think a coach could be that guy. "The Greatest Packer of All-Time" could be Vince Lombardi I believe, I don't know if I'd pick him but I think a very good case could be made. Similarly with Tom Landry.

I think it's interesting and now I'm wondering what the actual fans of each team would say. I'm thinking about going on a multi-board fact finding mission and getting a consensus from each teams fans. Are we really qualified to say who the greatest Detroit Lion of all time is? Probably not but Lions fans might be.

Like I said there are some easy ones. Jim Brown for Cleveland comes to mind fairly quickly. I don't know if all Browns fans would agree though. Maybe some of them would want Bernie Kosar or Oz?
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Well for the Lions I'd say it would have to be Barry Sanders or if you really want to go back you could say Bobby Layne. Layne was the last guy there at the QB position that was great and had that team rolling. He had a bad injury in the off season and the management panicked and traded him. Layne got upset about it and rightfully so, and vowed that that the Lions would stink for the next 50 years, and that 50 years just ended last year I believe. It's just crazy when you look back at how accurate that supposed curse was that he said he was putting on them because they have literally stunk for the last 50 years. Layne was a great Detroit Lion before being traded though.
 
HJam72 said:
What a way to stick it to an ex-employer.
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Well at the time he was like what Brady is to the Patriots or what Manning is to the Colts and they panicked and traded him out of there just because he got hurt. They did Layne wrong actually, and he Layne was a hard nose tough SOB that didn't put up with anything. There used to be stories of when he was at Texas that he'd beat the snot out of his WR's for dropping passes in games. Lol! Layne was a hard nose QB all the way.
 
The 49ers is a tough call between Joe Montana and Jerry Rice... :hmmm:

Any team with multiple championships is going to be tough, because they are most likely loaded with great players.

The Cowboys is one of those. A solid case could be made for many, but I'd probably go with the all-time rushing leader in Emmitt Smith.

I don't even know where to start with the Steelers. Geez, tough call.

I'd probably agree with eriadoc's list for most of them.
 
Double Barrel said:
The 49ers is a tough call between Joe Montana and Jerry Rice... :hmmm:

Any team with multiple championships is going to be tough, because they are most likely loaded with great players.

The Cowboys is one of those. A solid case could be made for many, but I'd probably go with the all-time rushing leader in Emmitt Smith.

I don't even know where to start with the Steelers. Geez, tough call.

I'd probably agree with eriadoc's list for most of them.
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Settle the Niners question by just inserting the coach: Bill Walsh.
 
eriadoc said:
Colts: Art Donovan (badass and funny sob)
Jacksonville Jags: MJD
Titans: Eddie George
Texans: AJ, D-Ryans

AFC North

Ravens: Ray Lewis
Steelers: Joe Green, Jack Lambert, Mel Blount
Bengals: Anthony Munoz
Browns: Jim Brown, Marion Motley

AFC West

Broncos: Elway, Floyd Little
Chargers: Fouts
Raiders: Howie Long, Gene Upshaw
Chiefs: Len Dawson, Hank Stram

AFC East

Patriots: Andre Tippett
Jets: Namath, Joe Klecko, Mark Gastineau
Dolphins: Larry Little, Bob Griese, Nick Buoniconti
Bills: Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, Jim Kelly

NFC North

Packers: Vince Lombardi, Bart Starr, Ray Nitschke, Reggie White, Brett Favre
Bears: Mike Singletary, Walter Payton, Mike Ditka
Lions: Barry Sanders
Vikings: Jim Marshall

NFC South

Panthers: Steve Smith
Falcons: Morten Andersen :hides:
Saints: Sam Mills, Rickey Jackson
Bucs: Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp, Mike Alstott

NFC East

Cowboys: Tony Dorsett, Roger Staubach, Randy White, Bob Lilly
Redskins: John Riggins, Russ Grim and the hogs, Darrell Green?
Eagles: Reggie White, Sonny Jurgensen
Giants: Lawrence Taylor, Harry Carson

NFC West

49ers: Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Ronnie Lott
Cardinals: Pat Tillman, Dan Dierdorf
Seahawks: Steve Largent
Rams: Merlin Olsen, Jack Youngblood, Deacon Jones, Eric Dickerson
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Sorry eriadoc, I'm lazy and piggy-backed your post and changed for my faves
 
Herv- man what a great way to get a debate going.. some teams are so rich in tradition, that you could go statistically or fan favorite...and both would be correct.. Teams like NY, GB, Baltimore Colts, Minnesota..ie, old skool teams have had greatness in the organization for most of all of their existance. Picking the greatest from them in our opinion would sure to get snickered at if asking your parents or grandparents on who was the best of times...

Rep to you.. for some teams, there is no debate, for the rest, let the fun begin !!
 
Texecutioner said:
I don't see how at all Reggie White could be the best Packer of all time when he didn't even spend the majority of his career over there.

Favre and Bart Starr were easily ahead of Reggie White and Ray Nitschkie might be ahead of Reggie White as well even as the best defensive player of all time that the Packers ever had.

For the Packers though, Favre takes it hands down despite how badly people hate the guy now.
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Reggie White played for the Eagles from 85-92 and the Packers from 93-98. He was a probowler and all-pro 13 years in a row with those teams, but he won the super bowl with the Packers. Both teams have his number retired (only player in NFL history to have that), so it could go either way but I think he belongs on the Packers for this list. Favre certainly does deserve consideration for the Packers, but Reggie White belongs on this list somewhere.
 
Manning over Unitas and it isnt close. Manning may be the greatest QB to ever play the game.


Titans- McNair

Oilers Earl

Texans - AJ (not close)
 
THE NFL said:
Manning over Unitas and it isnt close. Manning may be the greatest QB to ever play the game.


Titans- McNair

Oilers Earl

Texans - AJ (not close)
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I think that if you are going to split the Oilers/Titans then you have to split the Balt./Indy Colts and the Clev. Browns/Balt. Ravens/Clev. Browns and the LA Rams/ St L Rams
 
eriadoc said:
Well, you're right about it not being close, but you're wrong about it being Manning.
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He probably never watched Unitas live. And if you are considering just the one Colts as a franchise, I'm not sure a qb wins at all.
 
JB said:
I don't know that I would. But there are a few to consider. Art Donovan, Raymond Berry come to mind. But yeah, Unitas probably wins.
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I was thinking you might mention Bubba Smith.

Which reminds me ..... I think I'm changing my Rams vote to Deacon Jones over Marshall Faulk. They didn't create a category of statistic for Jones for nothing.
 
eriadoc said:
I was thinking you might mention Bubba Smith.

Which reminds me ..... I think I'm changing my Rams vote to Deacon Jones over Marshall Faulk. They didn't create a category of statistic for Jones for nothing.
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Damn! Knew I was forgetting someone. And yeah, I would have to put Jones at the top unless you split the teams.
 
I was thinking literally "one guy" per team and the only exception being "split" teams where they moved and spent significant and distinct periods of time in different cities.

The Houston Oilers and Tennessee Titans would merit two players, one for each "incarnation" of the team so to speak. If I was asking this in 1998 that would be silly but today it makes sense I think.

The Baltimore Colts were, I believe distinctly different from the Indianapolis Colts even though they didn't change names. They had two different and distinct eras of success and enough great players who didn't play on both versions to make a case. You can't call Peyton Manning a Baltimore Colt just like you can't call Johnny Unitas an Indianapolis Colt. They need a before/after choice.

I think the Rams and Cardinals get the same treatment. The Raiders only get one. They didn't move that far and then moved back. I look at their time in LA as more of an aberration than anything else.

The Ravens are just the Ravens. Since the Cleveland Browns kept the name and history entirely they get one greatest player in my book. The Ravens get their own and that's got to be Ray Lewis I think.

I'm working on my list and will get it done here shortly. I think I might go hit some other teams boards and ask them for their opinion of their team.
 
Hervoyel said:
I was thinking literally "one guy" per team and the only exception being "split" teams where they moved and spent significant and distinct periods of time in different cities.

The Houston Oilers and Tennessee Titans would merit two players, one for each "incarnation" of the team so to speak. If I was asking this in 1998 that would be silly but today it makes sense I think.

The Baltimore Colts were, I believe distinctly different from the Indianapolis Colts even though they didn't change names. They had two different and distinct eras of success and enough great players who didn't play on both versions to make a case. You can't call Peyton Manning a Baltimore Colt just like you can't call Johnny Unitas an Indianapolis Colt. They need a before/after choice.

I think the Rams and Cardinals get the same treatment. The Raiders only get one. They didn't move that far and then moved back. I look at their time in LA as more of an aberration than anything else.

The Ravens are just the Ravens. Since the Cleveland Browns kept the name and history entirely they get one greatest player in my book. The Ravens get their own and that's got to be Ray Lewis I think.

I'm working on my list and will get it done here shortly. I think I might go hit some other teams boards and ask them for their opinion of their team.
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What about the Cardinals? Three distinct eras, and even though the Chicago Cards were before most of our times, they have some HoF players of their own. The St. Louis and later Arizona Cards don't have as much tradition, IMO, but were distinctly different teams.
I didn't split mine up because I'm lazy. :)
 
eriadoc said:
What about the Cardinals? Three distinct eras, and even though the Chicago Cards were before most of our times, they have some HoF players of their own. The St. Louis and later Arizona Cards don't have as much tradition, IMO, but were distinctly different teams.
I didn't split mine up because I'm lazy. :)
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I will give the Cardinals two eras (see, I said the Rams and Cardinals get the same treatment the Colts do in my view) but I am going to simply (and knowingly) overlook the Chicago Cardinals era completely. They played in Chicago for a long time granted but thirty years of it was from 1920 to 1950 and I feel like you go much farther back than 1950 and you get into an era that almost none of us are qualified to compare to football in our time. Granted much of the 50's is hard to reconcile with todays game but somewhere in that decade the NFL became what I grew up watching. I know I'm shorting those guys who played then but I'm probably not qualified to rank them properly anyway.
 
THE NFL said:
Manning over Unitas and it isnt close. Manning may be the greatest QB to ever play the game.


Titans- McNair

Oilers Earl

Texans - AJ (not close)
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You do know that Unitas is considered to be one of the greatests of all time? 3 Time league MVP (4 if you include the old versions of it). He had a record 47 straight games with a TD pass. He has 3 championships. 10 Pro Bowls. He was considered the 5th greatest player ever by Sporting News in 1999 behind only Montana as QBs. In a similar poll in 2004 he was ranked #1 out of 50 QBs. So either you don't know Unitas or you are just throwing crap to say it "isn't even close."
 
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Double Barrel said:
Don't forget the AFL Houston Oilers - George Blanda
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I'd roll the AFL Houston Oilers with the NFL Houston Oilers so George Blanda has to come up against Earl Campbell and that ain't gonna happen. Actually in Blanda's case I think a list like this does him a disservice. He played forever but was the Greatest Raider of all time? Oiler? Bear? Not really. Definitely an all time great and deservedly a member of the HOF but his longevity combined with playing for three different teams for significant time works against him here.
 
Hervoyel said:
I'd roll the AFL Houston Oilers with the NFL Houston Oilers so George Blanda has to come up against Earl Campbell and that ain't gonna happen. Actually in Blanda's case I think a list like this does him a disservice. He played forever but was the Greatest Raider of all time? Oiler? Bear? Not really. Definitely an all time great and deservedly a member of the HOF but his longevity combined with playing for three different teams for significant time works against him here.
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I think if you can divide a franchise up in eras because of different locations (i.e. Indy Colts vs. Balt Colts), then a case can be made for the AFL Oilers. They won the first two AFL Championships, after all.

If you go with a HoF attitude of franchises, then each franchise would only get one player. (The HoF sees the Houston Oilers [AFL/NFL] and the Tenn Titans as a single franchise.) Quantifying franchises with subdivisions of locations and mascots leaves an open-ended logic that is malleable and subject to different perspectives.
 
Colts: Unitas...with Manning hot on his heals
Jacksonville Jags: Jimmy Smith / Fred Taylor
Titans: Earl Campbell...if we're talking history of the franchise
Texans: AJ

AFC North

Ravens: Ray Lewis
Steelers: Mel Blounte (sp?) -complete corner & just as integral a piece on that defense as Lambert & Greene
Bengals: Ken Anderson.............
Browns: tie between Otto Graham / Jim Brown

AFC West

Broncos: Elway
Chargers: Fouts / Tomlinson / Winslow..only b/c he revolutionized the TE spot.
Raiders: Tim Brown..probably the most consistent thing in a franchise as unstable as the raiders were/are.
Chiefs: Len Dawson

AFC East

Patriots: Brady
Jets: Namath (really, they still haven't had anybody worth a damn after this guy?)
Dolphins: Marino - easiest choice for any team imo.
Bills: Jim Kelly / bruce smith

NFC North

Packers: Favre (:thumbdown)
Bears: Walter Payton
Lions: Barry Sanders
Vikings: Jim Marshall...1st person that comes to mind when you think of that football team not only for the wrong-way play but for the ironman mentality as well.

NFC South

Panthers: Kerry collins, Lol j/jk ....Steve Smith
Falcons: Vick? - dude is still revered around there despite, well you know.
Saints: Sam Mills / Rickey jackson / Archie Manning?
Bucs: Warren Sapp / Derrick Brooks

NFC East

Cowboys: Staubach..nickname "captain america" says it all.
Redskins: Riggo...
Eagles: Reggie White / Chuck B.
Giants: LT

NFC West

49ers: Montana to Rice..impossible to seperate those 2..both equally intergral to the success of those teams.
Cardinals: Coryell?....Dierdorf? LOL.....Conrad Dobler.
Seahawks: Largent
Rams: Deacon Jizzle.
__________________
 
Double Barrel said:
I think if you can divide a franchise up in eras because of different locations (i.e. Indy Colts vs. Balt Colts), then a case can be made for the AFL Oilers. They won the first two AFL Championships, after all.

If you go with a HoF attitude of franchises, then each franchise would only get one player. (The HoF sees the Houston Oilers [AFL/NFL] and the Tenn Titans as a single franchise.) Quantifying franchises with subdivisions of locations and mascots leaves an open-ended logic that is malleable and subject to different perspectives.
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True, that was just mine (perspective). I'm looking for one thing in the question, you might be looking for another.
 
Hervoyel said:
True, that was just mine (perspective). I'm looking for one thing in the question, you might be looking for another.
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It's all good, man! You've posed a great question that sparks interesting thoughts about the history of the league that we all dig. It's very cool to see how different folks rank players & coaches.
 
So far I've heard from

Colts fans http://community.mycolts.net/directory/
Jaguars fans http://forum.jaguars.com/

Still waiting on registration from gotitans.com to pose my question there but the AFC South is shaping up pretty much as I expected.

Texans - Andre Johnson pretty much without question

Jaguars - Tony Boselli and Fred Taylor are in a dead heat. Might be too close to call.

Colts - Peyton Manning (Indy) and Johnny Unitas (Baltimore)

I expect the Titans to go with Earl Campbell (Hou) and Steve McNair (Tenn) but we'll see.
 
a lot of you guys picking Packers greats seem to have forgotten about Paul Hornung, Willie Davis, Bart Starr, Ray Nitschke, Jimmy Taylor, Willie Wood, Forrest Gregg, Fuzzy Thurston, Boyd Dowler, Herb Adderly, Curly Lambeau, Ect....A lot of past all time greats as well as Favre and Reggie White
 
GNTLEWOLF said:
a lot of you guys picking Packers greats seem to have forgotten about Paul Hornung, Willie Davis, Bart Starr, Ray Nitschke, Jimmy Taylor, Willie Wood, Forrest Gregg, Fuzzy Thurston, Boyd Dowler, Herb Adderly, Curly Lambeau, Ect....A lot of past all time greats as well as Favre and Reggie White
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Yep! I think for a franchise like the Pack, you would either have to pick Lombardi, or maybe a team. Just too many greats over the years.
 
Mr teX said:
Colts: Unitas...with Manning hot on his heals
Jacksonville Jags: Jimmy Smith / Fred Taylor
Titans: Earl Campbell...if we're talking history of the franchise
Texans: AJ

AFC North

Ravens: Ray Lewis
Steelers: Mel Blounte (sp?) -complete corner & just as integral a piece on that defense as Lambert & Greene
Bengals: Ken Anderson.............
Browns: tie between Otto Graham / Jim Brown

AFC West

Broncos: Elway
Chargers: Fouts / Tomlinson / Winslow..only b/c he revolutionized the TE spot.
Raiders: Tim Brown..probably the most consistent thing in a franchise as unstable as the raiders were/are.
Chiefs: Len Dawson

AFC East

Patriots: Brady
Jets: Namath (really, they still haven't had anybody worth a damn after this guy?)
Dolphins: Marino - easiest choice for any team imo.
Bills: Jim Kelly / bruce smith

NFC North

Packers: Favre (:thumbdown)
Bears: Walter Payton
Lions: Barry Sanders
Vikings: Jim Marshall...1st person that comes to mind when you think of that football team not only for the wrong-way play but for the ironman mentality as well.

NFC South

Panthers: Kerry collins, Lol j/jk ....Steve Smith
Falcons: Vick? - dude is still revered around there despite, well you know.
Saints: Sam Mills / Rickey jackson / Archie Manning?
Bucs: Warren Sapp / Derrick Brooks

NFC East

Cowboys: Staubach..nickname "captain america" says it all.
Redskins: Riggo...
Eagles: Reggie White / Chuck B.
Giants: LT

NFC West

49ers: Montana to Rice..impossible to seperate those 2..both equally intergral to the success of those teams.
Cardinals: Coryell?....Dierdorf? LOL.....Conrad Dobler.
Seahawks: Largent
Rams: Deacon Jizzle.
__________________
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You need to take Vick's name off of that right now. That's huge disrespect to that entire franchise and the real players that had positive impacts on that franchise. Vick crippled it and left the franchise in shame.
 
If this includes Lineman, I'd have to give Matthews some consideration on the Titans, and Matthews/Munch/Earl for the Oilers.
 
GNTLEWOLF said:
a lot of you guys picking Packers greats seem to have forgotten about Paul Hornung, Willie Davis, Bart Starr, Ray Nitschke, Jimmy Taylor, Willie Wood, Forrest Gregg, Fuzzy Thurston, Boyd Dowler, Herb Adderly, Curly Lambeau, Ect....A lot of past all time greats as well as Favre and Reggie White
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Hey, I picked Lombardi to edge out Starr.
 
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