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Texans' Defense: Really Kinda Almost Good, maybe?

dalemurphy

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Okay, so clearly there were some colossal mistakes and some ugly defense by the Texans... but, I am encouraged by some things. For one, the aggressive style and the sloppiness did allow the Texans' offense 13 posessions, which they turned into 34 points.

* The defense had 9 tackles for a loss in addition to its 2 turnovers... that's 11 negative plays, not counting a few penalties that the pressure created.

* The defense had 7 posessions of 4 plays or less that ended in a punt or a turnover (not counting the short scoring drives)

* The Texans gave up 10 points on the Titans final 10 posessions of the games.

Clearly, the busted assignments and 3rd and long conversions have to be cleaned up before we start actually talking about the defense being good but clearly the defense has shown these first two weeks that it can make plays and has some serious potential. The good news is that Barber and Ferguson have been taken off the field and hopefully Okoye will be next.

by the way, Antonio Smith was very disruptive yesterday.
 
I'm calling this defense "Boom-or-Bust". We let in the huge plays every once in a while, but other than those select few plays, we can be dominant.
 
They're doing some good things during the course of the game which is nice but unless they can start stopping people regularly on third down they are not good. They're getting destroyed by the run right now (coming in 30th? Hell, Richard Smith was at 23 against the run when he was shown the door) and 23rd against the pass.

We are still weak on the line but I'd say there's potential upside there still. We have a pretty good set of linebackers who I think will get better if Cushing stays healthy and continues to improve, and our secondary will get a little better when Reeves returns.

We might be kind of good by the end of the year if all the stars align and they figure out how to fix all these stupid break downs.
 
Ya, I can defeintely see the potential. It's like periods of awesomeness followed by brief bursts of total suckage. If the total suckage can be turned into just decentness, this D can be very good. But, this is a pattern not just these first two games, but going back to Minn and NO as well.

Instead of the bend but don't break defenses we are used to, this is more like the safety glass defense. It's tough as hell to get thru but when someone punches a hole hard enough in it, it doesn't flex it shatters into a million pieces.
 
The busted plays are the most concerning to me. It's a trend that started in the preseason and kept biting us in the butt straight through both of the first two games. The long runs for touchdowns are frustrating, but it's the blown coverages that I find completely dumbfounding. I mean seriously, when someone lines up at wide receiver, a defender is supposed to recognize that person and account for them on the play. What's the mystery in that?

These guys have been playing/coaching football for most of their lives and are getting paid millions but they can't figure out that someone needs to go stand in front of a wide out. Stupidity this deeply rooted surely can't be coming from just one person. Errant coaching and player naivety would have to unite forces to make the kind of stupid we've witnessed thus far.
 
455.5 yards per game.

215 rushing yards per game.

190 yards per game on THIRD DOWN.

11-17 (65%) conversion rate on 3rd and 7 yards or more.

1 sack in 2 games.

I don't think it's close to being good
 
I don't think the defensive mistakes yesterday can be blamed on Frank Bush or, for the most part, his more aggressive play-calling. I think we just had some players on the field, mostly young ones, that screwed up here and there. It will get better.

One a side note, I agree with you about the safeties, but I think Okoye is coming along. He's holding his lanes for the most part and he's just done it against some very good O-lines. I expect some big games out of him the next few weeks, relatively speaking anyway.
 
Fox said:
The busted plays are the most concerning to me. It's a trend that started in the preseason and kept biting us in the butt straight through both of the first two games. The long runs for touchdowns are frustrating, but it's the blown coverages that I find completely dumbfounding. I mean seriously, when someone lines up at wide receiver, a defender is supposed to recognize that person and account for them on the play. What's the mystery in that?

These guys have been playing/coaching football for most of their lives and are getting paid millions but they can't figure out that someone needs to go stand in front of a wide out. Stupidity this deeply rooted surely can't be coming from just one person. Errant coaching and player naivety would have to unite forces to make the kind of stupid we've witnessed thus far.
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One player screwed up and wasn't looking when the RB went out wide. It's all on him, considering how fast CJ is. The coaches couldn't even see it because it happened on the other side of the field. Yes, it was moronic, but it just comes down to one moron who hopefully learned a lesson.
 
HJam72 said:
One player screwed up and wasn't looking when the RB went out wide. It's all on him, considering how fast CJ is. The coaches couldn't even see it because it happened on the other side of the field. Yes, it was moronic, but it just comes down to one moron who hopefully learned a lesson.
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Where's your QB(s) on the field for our defense? Aren't Demeco and our safeties supposed to be keeping an eye on these things on the field, or are they supposed to have tunnel vision on their own assignments. How hard is it to notice a wide out with open grass in front of them.
 
HJam72 said:
One player screwed up and wasn't looking when the RB went out wide. It's all on him, considering how fast CJ is. The coaches couldn't even see it because it happened on the other side of the field. Yes, it was moronic, but it just comes down to one moron who hopefully learned a lesson.
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moron = Barber :cow:
 
This defense is a joke thus far.
And the Titans is not a great passing team by any stretch of imagination!
 
HJam72 said:
One player screwed up and wasn't looking when the RB went out wide. It's all on him, considering how fast CJ is. The coaches couldn't even see it because it happened on the other side of the field. Yes, it was moronic, but it just comes down to one moron who hopefully learned a lesson.
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Porky said:
moron = Barber :cow:
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I would say DeMecco he is the defensive Captain and play caller.
 
Fox said:
Where's your QB(s) on the field for our defense? Aren't Demeco and our safeties supposed to be keeping an eye on these things on the field, or are they supposed to have tunnel vision on their own assignments. How hard is it to notice a wide out with open grass in front of them.
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Barber shouldn't need anyone else to tell him to cover a wide-out, not surprising that a MLB didn't see it, and Barber is the safety. He definitely should've told himself. :gun:

I do seem to remember a CB in the area covering another wide-out on the same side, though, and I don't know why the *&(^ he wasn't screaming bloody murder. I gotta give you that one.
 
gtexan02 said:
They only had 150 yards passing if you discount that ridiculous pitch and catch to an undefended chris johnson
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The problem is, it does count.

TD plays of 30, 38, 57, 69 and 91 yards. And don't forget 2 other plays of 39 and 40. That's just TWO games.

Holy crap man!! They've ALMOST got me wishing Smith was still here.
 
HJam72 said:
Barber shouldn't need anyone else to tell him to cover a wide-out, not surprising that a MLB didn't see it, and Barber is the safety. He definitely should've told himself. :gun:

I do seem to remember a CB in the area covering another wide-out on the same side, though, and I don't know why the *&(^ he wasn't screaming bloody murder. I gotta give you that one.
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The leaders on our D need to try and keep an eye out for these mishaps. There was plenty of stupid to go around.
 
gtexan02 said:
They only had 150 yards passing if you discount that ridiculous pitch and catch to an undefended chris johnson
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And Andre only had 75 yards receiving if you take away his ridiculous big yardage score.

You see, that dog doesn't hunt in the NFL. Games often come down to a play or two and can go either way.
 
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HJam72 said:
Barber shouldn't need anyone else to tell him to cover a wide-out, not surprising that a MLB didn't see it, and Barber is the safety. He definitely should've told himself. :gun:

I do seem to remember a CB in the area covering another wide-out on the same side, though, and I don't know why the *&(^ he wasn't screaming bloody murder. I gotta give you that one.
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There was no CB on this side.

Demeco was busing telling Diles and Cushhing what to do.
The Titans were in 2-TE formation.
We had Cushing on Crumpler on this side.
Then Crumpler went into motion and setlled next to the TE on the other side.
Demeco was busy telling Cushing and Diles to switch places.

If we intended to play 2-deep safeties, it would have been Diles who needed to take the RB out of the backfield.
 
JDizzle said:
And Andre only had 75 yards receiving if you take away his ridiculous big yardage score.

You see, that dog doesn't hunt in the NFL. Games often come down to a play or two and can go either way.
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It certainly counts, but the difference is that it's a mental error. Mental errors *should* be fixable. If you're just not fast or strong, there's not anything you can do about it.
 
Speedy said:
455.5 yards per game.

215 rushing yards per game.

190 yards per game on THIRD DOWN.

11-17 (65%) conversion rate on 3rd and 7 yards or more.

1 sack in 2 games.

I don't think it's close to being good
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I actually think our run defense has been pretty good. I don't think draw plays on 3rd and long are a measuring stick for the quality of a run defense.. Certainly it says something about tackling and discipline. But, the fact is that the Texans won versus the run on first down and on short yardage. If I was going to forecast future production of a rush defense, those are the situations I'm going to look at.

Regarding the sacks, I think we have one less sack than the NYJets through two games. Again, it appears to me that we are getting pretty good pressure and yesterday the pressure produced some good results- causing both turnovers. In week one, the pressure created turnover opportunities in the 1st half that weren't converted.

If someone asked me to rank defensive performance in the NFL for the 1st 2 weeks, clearly we would be very near the bottom. However, if someone asks me to forecast defensive performance for the rest of the season based on evidence seen the 1st two weeks, the Texans would rank a lot higher than that. Certainly, the team could attempt to control the yardage and point numbers by playing umbrella defense and decreasing the number of posessions per game and encouraging teams to run the ball and keep the clock running. Instead, they've decided to actually use the defense to help them win games this season. The defense, bad as it has been at times, scored the season's first TD. It also created two big turnovers yesterday and held a quality football team to 7 points in the second half, while getting 4 second half 3 and outs! Missed assignments can be corrected. We don't have a collection of nitwits. We've acquired pretty intelligent football players and it is reasonable to expect them to correct many of these early season errors... If that happens, it's going to be a pretty good defense.
 
I can't remember us ever having so many third and longs when Richard Smith was here. Yeah we have sucked in those situations so far but if we keep putting ourselves in that position success will follow. Not going to make excuses for them but I will say that I expect a big jump in this defense starting next Sunday.
 
Speedy said:
The problem is, it does count.

TD plays of 30, 38, 57, 69 and 91 yards. And don't forget 2 other plays of 39 and 40. That's just TWO games.

Holy crap man!! They've ALMOST got me wishing Smith was still here.
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NO WAY! If Richard Smith is still here, we lose 27 - 17. We don't get any turnovers, and the Texans and Titans both get 10 posessions in the game because we don't create 5 3 and outs. As a result, the offense has fewer opportunities and we go down rather easily as usual. The Titans have only 180 yards rushing but are able to move the chains with 5-7 yard runs and convert 3rd and shorts, controlling the clock and managing the game.
 
dalemurphy said:
NO WAY! If Richard Smith is still here, we lose 27 - 17. We don't get any turnovers, and the Texans and Titans both get 10 posessions in the game because we don't create 5 3 and outs. As a result, the offense has fewer opportunities and we go down rather easily as usual. The Titans have only 180 yards rushing but are able to move the chains with 5-7 yard runs and convert 3rd and shorts, controlling the clock and managing the game.
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You mean to tell me that only Bush can will Collins into throwing that stupid pass so Wilson can intercept it?

Or that his 4-man pass rush was better than Richard Smith's 4-man pass rush that made Collins fumble the ball?
 
dalemurphy said:
NO WAY! If Richard Smith is still here, we lose 27 - 17. We don't get any turnovers, and the Texans and Titans both get 10 posessions in the game because we don't create 5 3 and outs. As a result, the offense has fewer opportunities and we go down rather easily as usual. The Titans have only 180 yards rushing but are able to move the chains with 5-7 yard runs and convert 3rd and shorts, controlling the clock and managing the game.
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In the first game we lost last year to the Titans, we had FIVE three-and-outs.
We also had one INT, and recovered a fumble.

In the second game, we won; we had FOUR three-and-outs.
We intercpeted Collins once, forced two fumbles and recover one.
 
76Texan said:
You mean to tell me that only Bush can will Collins into throwing that stupid pass so Wilson can intercept it?

Or that his 4-man pass rush was better than Richard Smith's 4-man pass rush that made Collins fumble the ball?
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Well, Collins got hit by 3 Texans as he let go of the pass on the interception. And, regarding the fumble, I would say that the cumulative affect of the pressure for the game and the fact that Okoye flashed and forced him forward did create that turnover.... Last year, Okoye would've been playing pattycake with the guard instead of shooting the gap and creating pressure.

I don't think "only Bush" can do that. But, I do think this defense is in much better shape with Bush as DC and guys like Cushing, A.Smith, Barwin, Busing on the team, than it was the past 2 seasons.
 
76Texan said:
In the first game we lost last year to the Titans, we had FIVE three-and-outs.
We also had one INT, and recovered a fumble.

In the second game, we won; we had FOUR three-and-outs.
We intercpeted Collins once, forced two fumbles and recover one.
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We did play well in that second game.. you are right. However, bragging about 3 and outs in the first game is a little disingenuous. First of all, the first 3 and out was a FG that gave them a 12 point lead... The next 4 3 and outs are from a team trying to ice the game, not a team trying to score.

Yesterday, the Titans needed points but couldn't sustain a drive. The Texans made plays behind the line of scrimmage and forced the Titans into uncomfortable situations.
 
i think we'll have to wait awhile before the D "clicks". Diles and Cushing are still young and will miss assignments. So will Busing, assuming he's replaced Barber. he also took a few bad angles to the ball carrier. and Barwin is going to rush the passer instead of playing the run (like the 3rd and long RB draw where Chris Johnson took it to the house). Our DTs are a crapshoot. and Bennett is not very good.

if the front seven starts to gell, then we'll be a decent D. it's a matter of time, i think, though before our secondary gets exposed, again.
 
I think the defense is awful. There were mistakes that you only see in High School football and Coach Bush has to be barely hanging onto his job right now.
 
Vinny said:
I think the defense is awful. There were mistakes that you only see in High School football and Coach Bush has to be barely hanging onto his job right now.
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I hear this. With as much talent as we supposedly have, to give up 3 busted plays to the SAME PLAYER syas something about coaching to me. If we do this a 3rd week in a row, I have a feeling Bush may get the ax early
 
Chris Johnson is probably the most explosive offensive player they have. You'd think we'd want to pay a little extra attention to him rather than leaving him alone.

This defense pisses me off right now. They'd start showing us a glimpse of improvement a couple plays then piss it away the very next.

Bennett is a joke too. If he ain't getting beat on a route, he's making a pussified attempt at a tackle.
 
Vinny said:
I think the defense is awful. There were mistakes that you only see in High School football and Coach Bush has to be barely hanging onto his job right now.
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If the Texans had failed to pull out the win, I'm sure the "Fire Frank Bush" thread would be 100 page long by now! :d:

And there would be nothing on the radio shows but the same thing from callers all over, including dalemurphy!
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76Texan said:
If the Texans had failed to pull out the win, I'm sure the "Fire Frank Bush" thread would be 100 page long by now! :d:

And there would be nothing on the radio shows but the same thing from callers all over, including dalemurphy!
icon10.gif
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I bet he is barely hanging on to his job as we speak. I think that when we see something done well, we are witnessing the talent on the d and not so much coaching scheme. Early in the year I mentioned that my biggest concern with the "more attacking style" of defense was giving up big plays. Also, well coached teams talk to each other and help each other recognize the formation as awareness is harped on and harped on. If you listen to the crowd, they were buzzing about Johnson split out wide but nobody was helping anyone out on the Texans D. I was sure the crowd was going to "help" out the D but still, nobody snapped...this reeks of a poorly coached unit, especially in lieu of the debacles of last week as well.
 
dalemurphy said:
Well, Collins got hit by 3 Texans as he let go of the pass on the interception. And, regarding the fumble, I would say that the cumulative affect of the pressure for the game and the fact that Okoye flashed and forced him forward did create that turnover.... Last year, Okoye would've been playing pattycake with the guard instead of shooting the gap and creating pressure.

I don't think "only Bush" can do that. But, I do think this defense is in much better shape with Bush as DC and guys like Cushing, A.Smith, Barwin, Busing on the team, than it was the past 2 seasons.
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Collins tried to fit that pass in between 3 defenders, that was how he was intercepted.

He fired the pass at around the 3-1/2 sec mark.
If that's pressure for you, then enjoy it, but I can't.
If Bulman was just late another 1/8 of a sec, he might have been called for a late hit. Mario just the same. And Cushing (I think it was) scrambling at Collins' feet had no effect on the throw.
 
noxiousdog said:
It certainly counts, but the difference is that it's a mental error. Mental errors *should* be fixable. If you're just not fast or strong, there's not anything you can do about it.
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I consider things like false starts or offsides mental errors. Leaving your opponent's only homerun hitter uncovered is plain stupid and inexcusable.

You fix stuff like this in the preseason and in this case you should be looking at #28 as soon as he comes out of the huddle, regardless of where he lines up. The fact that nobody paid attention to him or even called a timeout before the ball was snapped is embarrassing.
 
Vinny said:
I bet he is barely hanging on to his job as we speak. I think that when we see something done well, we are witnessing the talent on the d and not so much coaching scheme. Early in the year I mentioned that my biggest concern with the "more attacking style" of defense was giving up big plays. Also, well coached teams talk to each other and help each other recognize the formation as awareness is harped on and harped on. If you listen to the crowd, they were buzzing about Johnson split out wide but nobody was helping anyone out on the Texans D. I was sure the crowd was going to "help" out the D but still, nobody snapped...reeks of a poorly coached unit, especially in lieu of the debacles of last week as well.
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Is there anything I can add? Nothing, I imagine!

The CBs and safeties we have simply cannot sustain this aggressive style.
We could have very well been 0-2 right now, and what a disaster that would be.
 
Vinny said:
I bet he is barely hanging on to his job as we speak. I think that when we see something done well, we are witnessing the talent on the d and not so much coaching scheme. Early in the year I mentioned that my biggest concern with the "more attacking style" of defense was giving up big plays. Also, well coached teams talk to each other and help each other recognize the formation as awareness is harped on and harped on. If you listen to the crowd, they were buzzing about Johnson split out wide but nobody was helping anyone out on the Texans D. I was sure the crowd was going to "help" out the D but still, nobody snapped...this reeks of a poorly coached unit, especially in lieu of the debacles of last week as well.
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I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the fact that the defense made brutal mistakes yesterday and that those things need to stop. I'm not even arguing that the good plays are a result of Bush. I'm saying that I expect the defense to correct some of the ridiculous mistakes like the uncovered receiver. Clearly, it those things continue, the coach or coaches responsible need to be replaced... If they are corrected, we are going to win a lot of games when the defense makes 9 tackles behind the line of scrimmage, gets 2 turnovers, and gives the offense 13 posessions. I would rather give up the occasional 60 yard TD rather than allow a team to methodically march up and down the field on us and limit the offense's posessions.
 
isnt this more what we're looking for though? instead of "read and react", or "bend but dont break" - we've been asking for "boom or bust". our bad plays are unnatural from the game design and need to be addressed and if kubiak's attitude after the game carries over to practice, they will be. most of the busts are coming from our secondary and i see several things being fixed with the addition of busing and reeves.
 
dalemurphy said:
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the fact that the defense made brutal mistakes yesterday and that those things need to stop. I'm not even arguing that the good plays are a result of Bush. I'm saying that I expect the defense to correct some of the ridiculous mistakes like the uncovered receiver. Clearly, it those things continue, the coach or coaches responsible need to be replaced... If they are corrected, we are going to win a lot of games when the defense makes 9 tackles behind the line of scrimmage, gets 2 turnovers, and gives the offense 13 posessions. I would rather give up the occasional 60 yard TD rather than allow a team to methodically march up and down the field on us and limit the offense's posessions.
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Scooter said:
isnt this more what we're looking for though? instead of "read and react", or "bend but dont break" - we've been asking for "boom or bust". our bad plays are unnatural from the game design and need to be addressed and if kubiak's attitude after the game carries over to practice, they will be. most of the busts are coming from our secondary and i see several things being fixed with the addition of busing and reeves.
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this defense is giving up a ton of yards and a ton of points. Personally I don't care if it comes from a 'bend but don't break' defense or an aggressive gap control defense.
 
Vinny said:
I bet he is barely hanging on to his job as we speak. I think that when we see something done well, we are witnessing the talent on the d and not so much coaching scheme. Early in the year I mentioned that my biggest concern with the "more attacking style" of defense was giving up big plays. Also, well coached teams talk to each other and help each other recognize the formation as awareness is harped on and harped on. If you listen to the crowd, they were buzzing about Johnson split out wide but nobody was helping anyone out on the Texans D. I was sure the crowd was going to "help" out the D but still, nobody snapped...this reeks of a poorly coached unit, especially in lieu of the debacles of last week as well.
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What's interesting, if you watch the Chris Johnson TD catch play, is that he splits wide with exactly 15 seconds left on the play clock (which is when the coaches mike gets turned off, I think). I'd love to hear what Johnny Holland was yelling right at that point and I wonder what procedures are in place on the field once that communication device is turned off. I'm hoping against hope that some good questions, with follow-ups, are asked Kubiak about those broken plays in about 5 minutes.
 
Vinny said:
this defense is giving up a ton of yards and a ton of points. Personally I don't care if it comes from a 'bend but don't break' defense or an aggressive gap control defense.
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You don't think it would be better to give up 24 points and give the offense the ball 12 times versus giving up 24 points and giving the offense the ball 10 times?
 
Isn't Bush preaching 'simplify' to our D? Reduce confusion and increase aggression? I see aggression, but for a 'simple' scheme I see way too much confusion.
 
dalemurphy said:
What's interesting, if you watch the Chris Johnson TD catch play, is that he splits wide with exactly 15 seconds left on the play clock (which is when the coaches mike gets turned off, I think). I'd love to hear what Johnny Holland was yelling right at that point and I wonder what procedures are in place on the field once that communication device is turned off. I'm hoping against hope that some good questions, with follow-ups, are asked Kubiak about those broken plays in about 5 minutes.
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Everyone on the D should know where the feature back is and someone should have been helping each other find him and at least calling a time out. The crowd is pretty quiet in Nashville when the Titans line up...I've been there and the fans do a great job being quiet for the offense.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Bennett is a joke too. If he ain't getting beat on a route, he's making a pussified attempt at a tackle.
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It's been a long time since I've seen him do something promising. He's got the tools to be a high caliber player and it's like there is no one behind the controls. How many times are you gonna watch a curl route unfold and not jump the route for a pick 6?
 
dalemurphy said:
What's interesting, if you watch the Chris Johnson TD catch play, is that he splits wide with exactly 15 seconds left on the play clock (which is when the coaches mike gets turned off, I think). I'd love to hear what Johnny Holland was yelling right at that point and I wonder what procedures are in place on the field once that communication device is turned off. I'm hoping against hope that some good questions, with follow-ups, are asked Kubiak about those broken plays in about 5 minutes.
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Hopefully he isn't yelling anything because if he saw the play before the snap they should have called a timeout. They had to have missed it themselves.
 
Vinny said:
Everyone on the D should know where the feature back is and someone should have been helping each other find him and at least calling a time out. The crowd is pretty quiet in Nashville when the Titans line up...I've been there and the fans do a great job being quiet for the offense.
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You're right. I just wonder what the communication, or attempted communication, between the coaches and players were at that point. I also wonder if it is a problem to have the LB coach as the primary communicator to the defense with a new system in place.

What concerns me most about this defensive staff is their insistence on playing Barber, Okoye, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
 
Scooter said:
isnt this more what we're looking for though? instead of "read and react", or "bend but dont break" - we've been asking for "boom or bust". our bad plays are unnatural from the game design and need to be addressed and if kubiak's attitude after the game carries over to practice, they will be. most of the busts are coming from our secondary and i see several things being fixed with the addition of busing and reeves.
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Scooter we keep throwing some of our secondary under the bus, but if you look at the two long runs, nothing is really just the secondary's fault, the only thing is the obvious no cover on #28. The other plays are more towards our front 7 and leaving gaping holes and then having OL coming down the field against our secondary which is just bad.

I'm hoping that #40 works his way in to the secondary starting role, he's a ball hawk and seems to be a playmaker on the field.
 
TimeKiller said:
It's been a long time since I've seen him do something promising. He's got the tools to be a high caliber player and it's like there is no one behind the controls. How many times are you gonna watch a curl route unfold and not jump the route for a pick 6?
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Exactly. Or, how about the 2-5 yard out when he's giving a 7-10 yard cushion. Then he misses the tackle and a 2-5 yard out goes for a 1st down plus some. An "aggressive" front 7 doesn't do squat for you if your DB's give up quick and easy passes.
 
dalemurphy said:
If they are corrected, we are going to win a lot of games when the defense makes 9 tackles behind the line of scrimmage, gets 2 turnovers, and gives the offense 13 posessions.
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I think this is really the main point of Dale's argument.

He's being very positive and basing his argument on the hope that the coaches do get the major mental errors corrected.

I think a major aspect to many of the mental errors is that there are several 1st and 2nd year players involved.

specifically in regards to players like McCain, Barber, Cushing, Okam etc.
 
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