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So what about the Connor Barwin to Jason Babin comparisons ?

N

nunusguy

Hall of Fame
Anybody else having a sense of deja vu all over again with this years second round pick ? The similarities between these 2 guys are obvious, no make that striking.
Both are/were the "great white-hopes" to kick-start the Texans pass-rush as they are Michigan natives who's college careers were at less than major league midwestern schools where they faced a dubious level of competition. And their physical profiles/athletic measurements are also very similar as they
are both in the 6'2" - 6'3", 250 - 260 lb range with 40 times in the 4.5 - 4.6
range as an example of their similar workouts.
And finally their respective combine performances and Senior Bowl appearances had a lot to do with their Draft stock skyrocketing in the final weeks leading up to the Draft.
 
Different GM, Different HC, Different DC, Different results! And now we have more talent on D than we did back then.
 
nunusguy said:
Anybody else having a sense of deja vu all over again with this years second round pick ? The similarities between these 2 guys are obvious, no make that striking.
Both are/were the "great white-hopes" to kick-start the Texans pass-rush as they are Michigan natives who's college careers were at less than major league midwestern schools where they faced a dubious level of competition. And their physical profiles/athletic measurements are also very similar as they
are both in the 6'2" - 6'3", 250 - 260 lb range with 40 times in the 4.5 - 4.6
range as an example of their similar workouts.
And finally their respective combine performances and Senior Bowl appearances had a lot to do with their Draft stock skyrocketing in the final weeks leading up to the Draft.
Click to expand...

Babin came in and had to do something he didn't do in college. Stand up. He wasn't a 3-4 OLB. He was a DE, and not a bad one at that. I think we severed ties with Babin a little too early. We also didn't trade half of our draft for the guy. We just stayed there and took him. Cincinnati playes better competition then Western Michingan. I think Barwin has better measurables and motor as well.
 
nunusguy said:
Anybody else having a sense of deja vu all over again with this years second round pick ? The similarities between these 2 guys are obvious, no make that striking.
Both are/were the "great white-hopes" to kick-start the Texans pass-rush as they are Michigan natives who's college careers were at less than major league midwestern schools where they faced a dubious level of competition. And their physical profiles/athletic measurements are also very similar as they
are both in the 6'2" - 6'3", 250 - 260 lb range with 40 times in the 4.5 - 4.6
range as an example of their similar workouts.
And finally their respective combine performances and Senior Bowl appearances had a lot to do with their Draft stock skyrocketing in the final weeks leading up to the Draft.
Click to expand...

I'll be the first to admit I compared him to Babin. But that was only based on what I saw. When he got drafted more stuff came up on the dude and I don't think there is any real comparison to their style of play. Babin was supposed to be this bull rushing DE but only had a spin move. Barwin is very fast off the snap and looks way more athletic.

Aside from all that, this regime picked Barwin in the right spot. The 2nd round and didn't waste picks to get him in the 1st.
 
The Babin:Barwin analogy is about as apt as your Cincinnati:Western Michigan analogy.

People often have trouble seeing past the color of one's skin. The fact that your average Texan fan had never heard of either guy before the draft doesn't help either, but that doesn't make their futures similar.
 
The old regime seemed to have a habbit of drafting guys that were't that good at what they were being asked to do...

This thread reminds me of that...
 
nunusguy said:
Anybody else having a sense of deja vu all over again with this years second round pick ? The similarities between these 2 guys are obvious, no make that striking.
Both are/were the "great white-hopes" to kick-start the Texans pass-rush as they are Michigan natives who's college careers were at less than major league midwestern schools where they faced a dubious level of competition. And their physical profiles/athletic measurements are also very similar as they
are both in the 6'2" - 6'3", 250 - 260 lb range with 40 times in the 4.5 - 4.6
range as an example of their similar workouts.
And finally their respective combine performances and Senior Bowl appearances had a lot to do with their Draft stock skyrocketing in the final weeks leading up to the Draft.
Click to expand...


Barwin ran a 4.47 at his Pro Day.

I can't say that I pay enough attention to what players did in college to do a proper comparison, but I asked John Harris of 1560 his thoughts on this:

"[A]s I said yesterday, the Texans needed defensive play makers. One of my worries, though, is some people will see him as another Jason Babin. Rest assured, he's not Jason Babin. Babin couldn't hold this kid's jock. But, this is a scenario that we talked about for a while, speed/dominant pass rusher opposite Mario."

Seems little harsh, but that's one guy's opinion. Also, Babin played right away and over his head. And played while he was injured. He had a hard time fitting in on a team that resented his contract.

The Texans are going to use Barwin in obvious passing downs. This assumes that the Texans can get teams into obvious passing downs given how many yards they have typically given up on first down.
 
there is nothing to the comparisons imo...it's just natural to muse about how similar his name is, the fact that he went to a small school and how he wasn't on the radar of the fans for the most part. nuns, you always inject race into everything...how come?
 
Why don't we wait until after a game or two before we start making up our minds? Any of our our draft picks might be anything from wonderful to horrible. We just won't know till they put on the pads and play.
 
nunusguy said:
Anybody else having a sense of deja vu all over again with this years second round pick ? The similarities between these 2 guys are obvious, no make that striking.
Both are/were the "great white-hopes" to kick-start the Texans pass-rush as they are Michigan natives who's college careers were at less than major league midwestern schools where they faced a dubious level of competition. And their physical profiles/athletic measurements are also very similar as they
are both in the 6'2" - 6'3", 250 - 260 lb range with 40 times in the 4.5 - 4.6
range as an example of their similar workouts.
And finally their respective combine performances and Senior Bowl appearances had a lot to do with their Draft stock skyrocketing in the final weeks leading up to the Draft.
Click to expand...


all of that, and to top it off, I just realized that each player has 2 syllable first and last names! Yep, I think that clinches it... Barwin is destined to have the same career as Jason Babin. Otherwise, the world just wouldn't make sense.
 
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whiskeyrbl said:
Different GM, Different HC, Different DC, Different results! And now we have more talent on D than we did back then.
Click to expand...

I've got concerns about Barwin as well, but I wouldn't make comparisons to Babin for the reasons mentioned here, as well as the fact that we won't be asking Barwin to do something he's never done before, play OLB in a system he's never played in.

& the thing about more talent on D, is a big plus. We don't need him to be a full time player. He'll be part of a much more solid rotation than Babin ever was.
 
Barwin will definitely be a more effective DE pass rusher than Babin, because he doesn't have all those tattoos to weigh him down.:pirate:
 
And Jason Babin, er, I mean Connor Barwin is a "high-motor", 'blue-collar" type who gives it a 100 % every moment he's on the field of play. They're all about their intensity. I'm not saying the results are gonna be the same, but I am just sayin', well I dunno did anybody get a DNA specimen when Babin was in H-town because I wouldn't be surprised if they are related ?
 
nunusguy said:
And Jason Babin, er, I mean Connor Barwin is a "high-motor", 'blue-collar" type who gives it a 100 % every moment he's on the field of play. They're all about their intensity. I'm not saying the results are gonna be the same, but I am just sayin', well I dunno did anybody get a DNA specimen when Babin was in H-town because I wouldn't be surprised if they are related ?
Click to expand...
geesh
 
nunusguy said:
And Jason Babin, er, I mean Connor Barwin is a "high-motor", 'blue-collar" type who gives it a 100 % every moment he's on the field of play. They're all about their intensity. I'm not saying the results are gonna be the same, but I am just sayin', well I dunno did anybody get a DNA specimen when Babin was in H-town because I wouldn't be surprised if they are related ?
Click to expand...

medium_schleprock.jpg



I am just sayin'.
 
If we had taken Babin in the 2nd and not traded our other picks away to get him.....it would not have been the end of the world. But we did.

I don't have the same feel for this one. Like others have said....there is no position change for him. He is a situational pass rusher for the first year or two of his career. For the record, I wanted one of the interior lineman at that spot....but I like the guy. I think he can develop into an every down, high motor, and productive player for us. :texflag:
 
Texans_Chick said:
Barwin ran a 4.47 at his Pro Day.

I can't say that I pay enough attention to what players did in college to do a proper comparison, but I asked John Harris of 1560 his thoughts on this:

"[A]s I said yesterday, the Texans needed defensive play makers. One of my worries, though, is some people will see him as another Jason Babin. Rest assured, he's not Jason Babin. Babin couldn't hold this kid's jock. But, this is a scenario that we talked about for a while, speed/dominant pass rusher opposite Mario."
Click to expand...
First off I don't pay near as much attention to "Pro Day" measurements as I do to the official times, distances, etc. that are compiled at the Indy combine. One is a standarized envirnoment where all compete under the same conditions and the other, well I'm not saying it can be manipulated to produce favorable results but lets just say its less regulated and varies from school to school.
Regarding the John Harris comment, I have a lot of respect for his opinion and I'm a fan and pay attention to him when he's evaluating college football players potential to make it in the NFL. But I'd like to hear something more definitive, some more detail in support of his remark that "Babin couldn't hold this kid's jock". After all the story on Barwin is very limited as he's the same kind of one-year wonder as Clay Matthews was in college, which was and remains a big concern of many about Matthews NFL potential.
We've got a guy or 2 who posted in this very thread who was nuts about Babin at one time, but then finally realized later than most that he was a bust. I'm just gonna take a wait and see attitude about Barwin, because I dunno how he's gonna be but I sure see some striking similarities between him and Babin.
On the other hand I like the pick because we've got to make an effort to bolster the pass-rush, which means taking some risks like I think this pick clearly is.
 
nunusguy said:
First off I don't pay near as much attention to "Pro Day" measurements as I do to the official times, distances, etc. that are compiled at the Indy combine. One is a standarized envirnoment where all compete under the same conditions and the other, well I'm not saying it can be manipulated to produce favorable results but lets just say its less regulated and varies from school to school.
Regarding the John Harris comment, I have a lot of respect for his opinion and I'm a fan and pay attention to him when he's evaluating college football players potential to make it in the NFL. But I'd like to hear something more definitive, some more detail in support of his remark that "Babin couldn't hold this kid's jock". After all the story on Barwin is very limited as he's the same kind of one-year wonder as Clay Matthews was in college, which was and remains a big concern of many about Matthews NFL potential.
We've got a guy or 2 who posted in this very thread who was nuts about Babin at one time, but then finally realized later than most that he was a bust. I'm just gonna take a wait and see attitude about Barwin, because I dunno how he's gonna be but I sure see some striking similarities between him and Babin.
On the other hand I like the pick because we've got to make an effort to bolster the pass-rush, which means taking some risks like I think this pick clearly is.
Click to expand...

You're going to take the "wait and see attitude", yet you've already dubbed him similar to Babin?

As Vinny eloquently stated...Geesh!
 
Babin played TE too?

******************************

Babin was terrible in space. Barwin is not.
 
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Barwin is not Babin. Completely different player that I'm sure has a completely different attitude. Babin didn't work that hard when he came into the league from what I hear and I also used to hear that Babin was a frequent coke user as well. Babin just wasn't that good.

I like what I see out of this Barwin guy. I think he'll pose some mis matches and take advantage of them. I could be wrong, and he could have been a reach, but I'll wait and see on Barwin. I'm excited to see what multiple abilities that Barwin and Casey bring to this team.
 
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nunusguy said:
I'm just gonna take a wait and see attitude about Barwin, because I dunno how he's gonna be but I sure see some striking similarities between him and Babin.QUOTE]

You're going to take a wait and see approach but you are already comparing him to Babin? Isn't that just a tad hypocritical? :foottap:
Click to expand...
 
Texecutioner said:
Barwin is not Babin. Completely different player that I'm sure has a completely different attitude. Babin didn't work that hard when he came into the league from what I hear and I also used to hear that Babin was a frequent coke user as well. Babin just wasn't that good.

I like what I see out of this Barwin guy. I think he'll pose some mis matches and take advantage of them. I could be wrong, and he could have been a rach, but I'll wait and see on Barwin. I'm excited to see what multiple abilities that Barwin and Casey bring to this team.
Click to expand...

You would think he would have had a better motor...
 
Barwin is worthless! Cushing is worthless! The team is in ruins! We'll go 0-16 this year for sure!


.....hummm.....maybe I'll switch to decaff.....
 
The only comparison I think is apt is how athletically raw each player was/is coming out of college. I'm not defending Babin but I think Capers staff did him no favors by trading up for him and asking him to try and stand up at linebacker which he seemed completely out of place. They did a horrible job of developing him.

My concern with Barwin isn't that he's just like Babin b/c he's not and he's played against better talent. My problem is that I can't help but wonder is he a one year wonder? Cinci played some pretty good teams this year including Oklahoma outside Big East play. I know we have pieces to a new staff, but I can't help but wonder if they can coach this kid up. They haven't made good use of early talent and to me it looks like some of the street FA signings have been more sheer will of making it in the NFL then good coaching.

Not a big a big gamble as trading up and reaching but I still have concerns. After looking at what we have at DE I'm starting to be inclined to say this is a good pick IF we can develop him.
 
Porky said:
nunusguy said:
I'm just gonna take a wait and see attitude about Barwin, because I dunno how he's gonna be but I sure see some striking similarities between him and Babin.QUOTE]

You're going to take a wait and see approach but you are already comparing him to Babin? Isn't that just a tad hypocritical? :foottap:
Click to expand...
There are strong similarities in their backgrounds including their origin and college hsitory, even their physical dimentions and appearance are similar in some respects but hopefully its all coincidental. And they've been drafted
to play essentially the same position, though in different schemes.
But what is most important is Barwin is a blank slate when it comes to an NFL resume, so I'm hopeful than unlike Babin he will succeed here.
Click to expand...
 
Lets see, Barwin-Babin

Barwin led a BCS confrence in sacks despite only playing one year at DE. Babin played @ Directional Michigan.

Barwin ran a 4.47 at his pro day. Babin has never run a 4.47 in his life.

Babin had to change positions. Barwin is not going to change positions.

The only thing Barwin has in common with Babin is they are both white and white guys cant play DE in the NFL.

Everybody knws this is an undeniable truth.

Respectfully

Jared Allen
 
Thorn said:
Barwin is worthless! Cushing is worthless! The team is in ruins! We'll go 0-16 this year for sure!


.....hummm.....maybe I'll switch to decaff.....
Click to expand...

LOL

Lets give Barwin a chance before calling him a bust.
 
nunusguy said:
On the other hand I like the pick because we've got to make an effort to bolster the pass-rush, which means taking some risks like I think this pick clearly is.
Click to expand...

This is another reason I "like" the pick. Connor Barwin is not "THE" answer to our pass rush. His second round selection is one of many, including a new DC, a new DL coach, Antonio Smith, and Brian Cushing.

I'm thinking with so many actions to cure one problem, I think we'll see a significant improvement of our pass rush in '09
 
Barwin has several things going for him that Babin did not:

1) He's more athletic than Babin

2) He's got a higher motor than Babin

3) He's got Mario on the other side taking up double teams

4) He's got Antonio Smith playing DE on obvious run downs so he will be eased into the rotation on obvious pass downs so he can just pin his ears back and rush the passer like Mark Anderson did his rookie season with the Bears

5) The offense is light years ahead of where they were while Babin was here so there's a much better chance opposing teams will be passing more to play catch up with our offense.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Barwin has several things going for him that Babin did not:

1) He's more athletic than Babin

2) He's got a higher motor than Babin

3) He's got Mario on the other side taking up double teams

4) He's got Antonio Smith playing DE on obvious run downs so he will be eased into the rotation on obvious pass downs so he can just pin his ears back and rush the passer like Mark Anderson did his rookie season with the Bears

5) The offense is light years ahead of where they were while Babin was here so there's a much better chance opposing teams will be passing more to play catch up with our offense.
Click to expand...
doesnt wear makeup....
 
Polo said:
Babin played TE too?

******************************

Babin was terrible in space. Barwin is not.
Click to expand...

This is one thing I've noticed on the few highlights I've seen that illustrates a big difference to me between the two. Barwin doesn't just have straight line speed and brute strength, he's quite agile and difficult to evade as a QB.

As far as Barwin's prospects as an NFL DE though, at this point color me skeptical. He seems like a solid person and a great athlete, but his inexperience as a defender much less a DE makes me think he's going to struggle early on. He may have been able to run circles around stone-footed tackles in college, but I'm not sure how his athleticism will translate against the quicker LT's that predominate the NFL now. Will be interesting to see his progression in camp and pre-season.
 
Fox said:
This is one thing I've noticed on the few highlights I've seen that illustrates a big difference to me between the two. Barwin doesn't just have straight line speed and brute strength, he's quite agile and difficult to evade as a QB.

As far as Barwin's prospects as an NFL DE though, at this point color me skeptical. He seems like a solid person and a great athlete, but his inexperience as a defender much less a DE makes me think he's going to struggle early on. He may have been able to run circles around stone-footed tackles in college, but I'm not sure how his athleticism will translate against the quicker LT's that predominate the NFL now. Will be interesting to see his progression in camp and pre-season.
Click to expand...

All the more reason its great that we have the luxury to bring him along slowly and only use him when its a situation where he's allowed to do what he does best (rush the QB).
 
nunusguy said:
Anybody else having a sense of deja vu all over again with this years second round pick ? The similarities between these 2 guys are obvious, no make that striking.
Both are/were the "great white-hopes" to kick-start the Texans pass-rush as they are Michigan natives who's college careers were at less than major league midwestern schools where they faced a dubious level of competition. And their physical profiles/athletic measurements are also very similar as they
are both in the 6'2" - 6'3", 250 - 260 lb range with 40 times in the 4.5 - 4.6
range as an example of their similar workouts.
And finally their respective combine performances and Senior Bowl appearances had a lot to do with their Draft stock skyrocketing in the final weeks leading up to the Draft.
Click to expand...

Barwin is longer than Babin, and probably more athletic. However, people have to temper their expectations. He may tear it up from day one, but history has shown that very few defensive linemen become dominant pass rushers in their first season. And, let's not forget that we're talking about a guy who's only been a DE for one year. He's far from a polished final product.

Barwin was mostly able to get by on sheer athleticism in college, but his 11 sacks show just how natural a pass rusher he is. I don't care which conference you play in at the Division I level -- 11 sacks is highly impressive and suggests that he has a natural feel for rushing the passer.

It's highly doubtful that Barwin will record double-digit sacks in his first season, especially as a situational player. Even in one-on-one match-ups with OTs, if he's not technically sound and diverse in his pass rush moves, he's going to get engulfed. It may take him some time to adjust to the NFL game. Fans will need to be patient with him, most likely.
 
Cincinnati had an awesome defense, better than Michigan and Big 10 schools. He would've produced in any college conference. Its all about hunger and he plays with a lot of it.
 
Still not getting the Babin-Barwin comparison.

Babin played at 280+ in college, and often kicked inside to DT so they could get more speed on the field. He was more stout against the run, and had a better variety of pass rush moves(that unfortunately didn't translate to the NFL).

Barwin played at 250, maybe 255 if he had just eaten and had a tall glass of water. He got by on speed and effort.

Comparing their body types, Babin had a thick, squat frame vs Barwin's long lean frame.

They have very little in common except position and skin color.

If you want to compare Barwin to an NFL player physically look at D.Ware or L.Little. He hasn't developed their moves yet, but that's the type of player he could be.
 
Let's see ...

Barwin
Babin

Barwin played college basketball as a forward which means you're pretty fluid . Babin watched college basketball .

Barwin quit basketball and went through aone offseason weight program and gained 15 pounds to 255 . Babin dropped weight to get to 260 where he ran a 4.69 forty yard dash . Barwin , like Texans_Chic mentioned hit a 4.47 at his proday to go along with a 40" vertical leap .
 
Texecutioner said:
Babin didn't work that hard when he came into the league from what I hear and I also used to hear that Babin was a frequent coke user as well. Babin just wasn't that good.
Click to expand...

You didnt hear this from youre dealer did you? I heard those guys arent real reliable. :smiliedance:
 
every player ever drafted can be compared to another player whos measurables were almost identical coming out of college.

Some of them are busts and some of them are superstars...trying to say that someone is going to bust, or thrive, because someone similar who came out of college before them did so... is just stupid.
 
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