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We need a new QB in 09!
- Thread starter Hook'er
- Start date
Silver Oak
All Pro
I think our defensive needs outweigh our need at QB, but that's just me pissing into the wind of discontent.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
The needs of the defense outweigh the needs of the offense.
I'd like to hear Leanord Nimoy say that. LOL
beerlover
Hall of Fame
"the needs of the many (defense) outweigh the needs of the few (offense)"
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
Dude. I want your pink soap. I'm ready to just set a nuke off into the entire front office. Just blow it all up and start from scratch.
TimeKiller
Guest
I wouldn't mind Graham Harrell as long as it's nothing higher than a 4th or so. With the weapons we have recieving he would fit.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Mari-OWNED!
Bucco Bruce
Yeah I'm all for drafting a QB in the 4th and the rest of the draft being nothing but defense!
QB's I'd like the Texans to draft in the 4th if they happen to be there... (In no specific order)
Chase Daniel, Cullen Harper, Graham Harrell, Nate Davis, and Zac Robinson.
If there's a QB that you think is awesome that I didn't put in that list, it's probably because I think they'll be gone before the 4th round.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
It's true though. It's not like our offense doesn't move the ball, just the QB turns it over.
The Defense on the other hand has been the part of the team that other teams have been able to have their way with.
BuffaloglennTX
Noob
Or the one! I couldn't resist completing the quote. Unless we solve our issues at C and RG, it won't matter who our QB is (short of someone named manning). And, unless we can get a few stops on defense, we can't expect to win many games in the NFL by outscoring people. That may work in college, but not with the big boys.
I just vomitted a little in my mouth
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
"Of all the souls I've encountered, Richard Smith's defense was the most.... H-U-M-A-N," he said while weeping.
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
I fail to see the logic here.
QB is not the issue on our team and while some of you guys on here are harping on the 2 oline positions, there is little doubt that the real issue is defense. Even when our QB play hasnt produced alot of turnovers in games Minus the Cinci game, our Defense has still given up 30 ppg. Wholesale changes on Defense need to be made
We already have a QB for 09, we dont need to go looking for another one.
So lets change the thread title to the obvious issue: We need a Defense in 09!
eriadoc
Texan-American
I think you have to give Schaub the chance to show what he can do, but at the same time, you can't hamstring the organization. I think the team has to draft a QB this year to groom. Best case scenario, we end up in a Brees/Rivers situation. If not, hopefully one of them will be worth a damn.
The problems this team has on offense are QB related .... especially in the redzone. Schaub just doesnt have any feel for when its time to get .... as in out or rid of the ball .... Rosencptor takes too many chances that lead to turnovers and makes some poor reads which lead to more turnovers.
They do fine between the 20's but when they get in the RZ , when the heat goes up .... we all know what happens.
For Schaub , replacing the C and RG MIGHT help some by extending the time he has to stand in the pocket ... but it wont solve all the problems.
Sage needs to go to the Wizard of Oz and get himself a brain ..... his problems arent fixable otherwise.
I think the bigger issue for Schaub is staying on the field .... again leading back to his taking some hard hits from lack of knowing when ..... to get out of the pocket or get rid of the ball. (outside of maybe the JA hit). Is it the OL or is it on Schaub ? Only one way to find out , fix the RG and C spots and throw him out there again next season. But if he goes down again .... do we stick w/ Sage (please no!) , find a vet backup or pick up a QB somewhere in the middle of this draft? I'd like to do both of the latter depending on who's available from the 4th round on. But that (fixing the C and RG) kinda limits some picks that could be spent on the defense .... Ugh it has to be fixed.
I just dont see being able to fix both the OL and Defense in one offseason. Best bet for this team is to pick up a vet backup who has started in the NFL and who fits the system for next season. Fix the Defense during this offseason. Unless someone you have rated extremely high falls in your lap on the offensive side of the ball.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Lack of knowing? Let's examine this. Four injuries.
Concussion--late hit by Haynesworth, flagged play, ball already gone.
Concussion--cheap shot by San Diego player, flagged play, ball long gone and already intercepted.
Shoulder--clean sack and folks could argue about this but there basically was a jail break by the DL so IMO it wasn't a holding the ball issue.
Knee--two cheap shots, fined plays, in both cases ball already gone.
I don't see where pre-throw lack of knowledge and his injuries correlate.
cowbellm00
100% Houstonian
wow, that's an excelent point. I never thought about that end of it. Our D might actually not be as bad as we all are thinking. Anyones D would look bad if they started in as bad of field position as often as our D does due to Offensive turnovers.
Great point sir.
But still, much work needs to be done on both sides of the ball and for sure the D-Line needs to put more pressure on QBs than they have been. That would help a ton!
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
wow, that's an excelent point. I never thought about that end of it. Our D might actually not be as bad as we all are thinking. Anyones D would look bad if they started in as bad of field position as often as our D does due to Offensive turnovers.
Great point sir.
But still, much work needs to be done on both sides of the ball and for sure the D-Line needs to put more pressure on QBs than they have been. That would help a ton!
I would agree, but we turn the ball over the most in the red zone. They have 80 yards to go, and normally do just that.
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
Then explain to me how we still lose games when we score 28 and dont turn the ball over. Thats happened a couple of times this year and that last game we played, the Sage INT had very little to do with that loss. Had we not given up 500 yds from the Defense e would have won the game. So I still dont buy the new QB in 09 argument.
How about we fix the biggest problem first, which is our "Red Sea Defense"
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
I disagree, I think the defense is just as much to blame for the turnovers. Our offense is always playing from behind and knows that our defense can't hold anybody down so they are forced to play too aggressively. We need a defense that can stop people so we don't have to give up on the running game by halftime. When this happens the turnovers will go down drastically. Look at the Colts, how many turnovers did they need to rack up 470+ yards? All of their drives were long and time consuming. We would have been better off if we had onside kicked literally every time they scored. In conclusion our defense is poo.
ATX
Hall of Fame
Not saying our defense isn't crappy......it is. I just wanted to throw that in there because it's relevant. I want a good defense too, but I don't care how good a defense is if your QB throws a bunch of pick sixes.......they aren't on the field. Look at Tennessee for example. Great defense, average offense, but Collins isn't throwing alot of interceptions. 3 major problems I see for the Texans....
1. Terrible Defense
2. Too many giveaways
3. Not enough takeaways
Fix those 3 and this team is a playoff team
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
I agree wholeheartedly with those three things that we must do to improve. My point is the defense can possibly kill all three of them whereas a new QB could only hope to take away 1 and frankly I'm not sure there are many QBs in the league who could succeed with our defense and the amount of aggressive throws we have to make to stay in the game.
The fact is that we are going to have limited resources to attack our problems this offseason. The draft and FA, and we have shown to be terrible in FA. In an ideal world sure, lets grab a potential upgrade at QB and LT/OG/C etc. and then focus on the defense. Can't happen though, we only have so many impact draft picks. We won't even be able to fix the defense completely this offseason imo but we can certainly make an impact with new coaching and talent. In the end QB, while attractive, should not be a priority over defense and I don't think its even close.
ATX
Hall of Fame
I agree that beefing up the defense is a priority over getting another QB.
I see our red zone problems being more running back and OL then QB. We have a smallish RB and a small offensive line. Teams know we can't overpower them in the trenches, so they know we're going to throw.
If we could improve our run blocking (C/G) or improve our running back in the red zone, I think we'd really see an improvement in our RZ efficiency
Hooston Texan
Rookie
This has not been the case, actually. I did a post/thread on this a few weeks ago before I lost interest in the issue when our season went inot the toilet the last few weeks.
But for all of our turnover issues, the defense has actually done a good job of limiting the damage. This is the only thing the defense has done right this year.
Of the AFC-high 287 points we've surrendered, only a total of 47 were the result of turnovers that led to TD returns (14) or that set the opponent up on our side of the 50 (33). The other 240 points we've allowed were the result of drives that started on the other teams half of the field.
The two TD returns were against Tennessee (a meaningless score) and, of course, the Rosencopter play. 16 of the other 33 points (2 TDs and a safety) were in the debacle against Baltimore.
But however you count them, we're middle-of-the pack in terms of our turnovers leading to easy scores for the other teams. But we might still have the worst defense in all of football in terms of giving up long, sustained marches (or big plays) by the other offense.
The offenses' turnover issues have cost us chances to score, but, generally speaking, they have not led to easy scores by the opponent. Those shotgun wounds to the defenses' feet have been almost entirely self-inflicted.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I'm not going to discount the need to make the defense better, but the most important player on the field is the qb. If you can get #5 by giving up a 2nd, u do it. We can talk about the texans top 10 offense, but the qb's are double agents. I've never seen 2 qb's be responsible for all the to's excepts 2 is crazy. Those red zone int's, the fumbles and just mayybe the leadership in the huddle will improve bigtime with Mcnabb. That's why miami and the jets are winning. If the qb plays good football and don't to the ball, tis teaam would be 6-4. Solve the qb and the rest will follow.
Tailgate
Fall of Hame
Yes, several defensive positions are a priority over QB play right now when looking at the field.
However, Sage will be gone soon. And a decision on Schaub will have to be made after next year whether or not to continue with this contract which would cost us MILLIONS. Thus, the Texans defnitely need a young stud QB on the roster to replace Sage and at the very least replace Schaub after next year if he does not pan out or stay healthy.... and at this point we really cant say he will. It pains me to even think about drafting a QB high, but if one is there that we love... it definitely makes sense to think about taking him considering the future.
However, Sage will be gone soon. And a decision on Schaub will have to be made after next year whether or not to continue with this contract which would cost us MILLIONS. Thus, the Texans defnitely need a young stud QB on the roster to replace Sage and at the very least replace Schaub after next year if he does not pan out or stay healthy.... and at this point we really cant say he will. It pains me to even think about drafting a QB high, but if one is there that we love... it definitely makes sense to think about taking him considering the future.
ReliantTexan
Waterboy
I'd give Schaub one more year,and if he hasn't cemented himself as the franchise QB, then we can opt out of his contract. Then maybe we draft a QB in 2010, which looks to be a much better QB class anyway.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
The concussion in the San Diego play is notable because it may have led to the expansion of the fining system. Drayton Florence got fined $15,000 for the hit and GM Rick Smith actually publicly said that they weren't happy about that.
Within a few weeks of that, the league made it clear that if you head hunt QBs you run the risk of being suspended.
Before the season started, the league put out a memo about player safety saying that players can be fined or suspended for dirty hits, even on the first offense.
Some thing that a lot of folks forget that Schaub and Rosenfels really haven't had that many starts between them. The saddest thing about the second hit that Schaub took was that even though the line had caved in almost immediately, Schaub found a way to step through the pressure, make a big completion and then is hit low after the ball is gone.
I think you are onto something there with the OL in the red zone .... I dont think its Slaton as much as I do the line , he runs pretty damn hard. I think a lot of it is this finesse scheme .... When you get in the red zone and everything gets tight , its hard to finesse your way thru heavier , stronger guy's. Meyers and Brisel get blown up on a regular basis ....
DiehardChris
You betcha!
He reminds me a whole lot of another back people thought was too small .... only to put up 18,355 yards over 15 seasons.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I think as most will tell the qb is the most important spot yet its effected the mostt by what around him. If the texans have a chance to get mcnabb, they should do it. Schaub had 18m guaranteed through the 1st 3yrs. They get #5, schaub rides the pine for a yr aand then you get him to restructure or he gets cut. If mcnabb can put up those numbers without a #1 or 2 wr and having daniels and slaton, the offense would be top 5. Not only that, mvnabb hhas a 2:11 td-int ratio and of the 66 fumbles,he's only lost 9
Texans Horror
All Pro
A DE would do a lot more for the pass rush and pass defense than drafting a qb. That being said, I think the Texans need to look to the future. Take a qb that can be groomed over the next year or two without the pressure of having to perform on day 1.
Except for his last play, Sage looked pretty good out there last game. I'm not as doom-and-gloom as some. I think there is promise and some coaching up, mostly because we have two quarterbacks who aren't seeing enough field time to really improve. I don't think we need to worry about finding a vet to pull a Kurt Warner/Jeff Garcia - at least, I'm not ready to say that yet.
Except for his last play, Sage looked pretty good out there last game. I'm not as doom-and-gloom as some. I think there is promise and some coaching up, mostly because we have two quarterbacks who aren't seeing enough field time to really improve. I don't think we need to worry about finding a vet to pull a Kurt Warner/Jeff Garcia - at least, I'm not ready to say that yet.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I mean when you look at McNabb's number as far as int/td ratio and consider who he has as wr's, its really impressive.
2008
PHI
10
227
382
59.4
2711
7.1
14
90
8
84.7
When you look at probably his worse game this past weekend when he threw 3 ints, his ratio is over 2:1. How many of those games would the texans have won if not for the to's? I mean they were there in tennessee,minny,baltimore and mcnabb isn't throwing all those picks and turning over the ball week 1 against pittsburgh or think about jacksonville. McNabb gives you a chance every week because he's a low to guy. I mean he's 2nd place all time for int per pass att. He just passed Odonnell. Consider he's had 2- 1000 yd receiver in 10 yrs. TO 1 yr and Curtis last yr. As poor as the defense is, better more consistent qb play gives them 6 wins vs 3.
2008
PHI
10
227
382
59.4
2711
7.1
14
90
8
84.7
When you look at probably his worse game this past weekend when he threw 3 ints, his ratio is over 2:1. How many of those games would the texans have won if not for the to's? I mean they were there in tennessee,minny,baltimore and mcnabb isn't throwing all those picks and turning over the ball week 1 against pittsburgh or think about jacksonville. McNabb gives you a chance every week because he's a low to guy. I mean he's 2nd place all time for int per pass att. He just passed Odonnell. Consider he's had 2- 1000 yd receiver in 10 yrs. TO 1 yr and Curtis last yr. As poor as the defense is, better more consistent qb play gives them 6 wins vs 3.
I want Graham Harrell. Even if it means reaching a bit for him in the 3rd. I'm all for Schaub right now, but I want someone young that can take over this franchise in a couple of years without missing a beat. And Kubiak's the right guy to groom a young QB. Let's get one in here before Kubes gets fired.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
I would imagine that the Pats snag him first. With Cassel being a FA and the fact that they run a version of the spread means Harrell would be a perfect fit
GP
Go Texans!
And I predicted this thread way back in the summer. 
I said that fans on this board would be clamoring for a QB because we'd back into the routine of Schaub being hurt and Sage leading the way. Again.
Still, I got ragged on hard for saying this. How dare I?
So, I'll pat myself on the back and remind those of you who love to flame me and say I don't know crap about football. Anybody who thought Schaub would be playing the whole season are the ones who don't know crap, IMO.
I can't wait to see how in the hell this organization will find a way to fool itself into even remotely thinking about starting Matt Schaub next year after the shoulder injury and now a serious knee injury? Going to be fun to see Matt Schaub zipping all those training camp passes.
I know a bad QB when I see one--I supported Carr way too long. After he was gone, I decided that it shouldn't take too long to know if you got something good or not. It should be pretty resognizable right off the bat. And Schaub was reeking about the 4th game of last season, with each week getting a little worse than the previous one.
QBs love to come to Houston: You get several seasons of suckiness and STILL get to be the starter. What a gig.
I said that fans on this board would be clamoring for a QB because we'd back into the routine of Schaub being hurt and Sage leading the way. Again.
Still, I got ragged on hard for saying this. How dare I?
So, I'll pat myself on the back and remind those of you who love to flame me and say I don't know crap about football. Anybody who thought Schaub would be playing the whole season are the ones who don't know crap, IMO.
I can't wait to see how in the hell this organization will find a way to fool itself into even remotely thinking about starting Matt Schaub next year after the shoulder injury and now a serious knee injury? Going to be fun to see Matt Schaub zipping all those training camp passes.
I know a bad QB when I see one--I supported Carr way too long. After he was gone, I decided that it shouldn't take too long to know if you got something good or not. It should be pretty resognizable right off the bat. And Schaub was reeking about the 4th game of last season, with each week getting a little worse than the previous one.
QBs love to come to Houston: You get several seasons of suckiness and STILL get to be the starter. What a gig.
GP
Go Texans!
Not so sure. They signed Kliff Kingsbury out of TTU back when the spread offense was first started at TTU, and he lasted on the PS and was later dropped.
Granted, Graham Harrell might be better than Kingsbury. But...I wouldn't want Graham to come here unless COACH MIKE LEACH came here and installed the Run-N-Shoot again. Now that would be freaking awesome.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I'm not playing Monday Morning qb, but I didn't think they should have drafted Carr in the 1st place because the team wasn't ready to support the qb.. My 1st draft wouldve netted the Texans peppers, portis, bryant and Garrad. I thought they shouldve signed a vet and let him get beat up until you build the line on both sides. In 3 yrs, The line would be ready to support the qb. That's dead and gone now.
I thought at the time schaub might be Rob Johnson. A guy with some attributes, but to handle a team every down is different than subbing out. I'm glad they got rid of Carr, but they now have 2 qbs who are turnover prone. I know McNabb will be on the block this year. He's out of bonus money, so a trade is really easy now. Get Mcnabb, restructur Schaub's salary since they already is pying his bonus and put a young guy as the 3rd. Get what you can for sage. The worse thing a avg talent team can have is a double agent at qb. Right now, the texans have double agents at qb. Like I've said earlier, even with the defense, this team is solid qb play from 5-5,6-4 which would have them in the thick of the playoffs. Mcnabb I turning 32 and looking at warner,favre,collins, and garcia, I don't see why we can't expect him to play at a high leve for another 5 yrs or so. I wouldn't give up my 1st, but I might swap 1st and give them my 2nd and maybe a player to make it happen. This team is ready offensively, but the inconsistent turnover happy qb's are holding the team back.
I thought at the time schaub might be Rob Johnson. A guy with some attributes, but to handle a team every down is different than subbing out. I'm glad they got rid of Carr, but they now have 2 qbs who are turnover prone. I know McNabb will be on the block this year. He's out of bonus money, so a trade is really easy now. Get Mcnabb, restructur Schaub's salary since they already is pying his bonus and put a young guy as the 3rd. Get what you can for sage. The worse thing a avg talent team can have is a double agent at qb. Right now, the texans have double agents at qb. Like I've said earlier, even with the defense, this team is solid qb play from 5-5,6-4 which would have them in the thick of the playoffs. Mcnabb I turning 32 and looking at warner,favre,collins, and garcia, I don't see why we can't expect him to play at a high leve for another 5 yrs or so. I wouldn't give up my 1st, but I might swap 1st and give them my 2nd and maybe a player to make it happen. This team is ready offensively, but the inconsistent turnover happy qb's are holding the team back.
GP
Go Texans!
I don't think a better QB turns this thing around.
Good teams have good coaches that match the players on the field. Our offense is doing OK, despite the obvious problem at QB, so it tells me that Kubiak would be a great offensive coordinator here. Just not a good HC.
A good HC doesn't tie himself to a crappy defensive coordinator for so long. In fact, he wouldn't even remotely think of Richard Smith as a choice at all. Would he? No, a good HC is a manager of coaches. Kubiak is not a HC, IMO.
Even a decent QB on this team is going to be puzzled as to why he does everything he can...yet the team finds ways to screw it up. And make no mistake about it, this team cannot get over itself in the area of finding a way to choke itself into unconsciousness. That's on the coaches. They are there to instill, remind, motivate, repeat the teaching, hold them accountable. If coaches are not supposed to be held accountable, then why are they there? Why not just have the players play sandlot football and call their own shots on their own?
Kubiak has one more season before he's off and hitching a ride to somewhere else. Only a miracle of all miracles during the offseason will save him. And I don't see him giving up on Matt Schaub.
