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Rogers Cromartie is crazy fast, but with a 38" vertical, and 4.48 speed, how can you not take Talib. What was Cromartie's vertical?
 
I would still take cromartie because he can go man to man with the fastest wr's in the league and Talib times are average at best 4.48 that's pretty much 4.5 on average and cromarties slowest time is 4.34 in the 40 and is 6'1 185 that's huge at the CB spot.
 
PHAROAH said:
I would still take cromartie because he can go man to man with the fastest wr's in the league and Talib times are average at best 4.48 that's pretty much 4.5 on average and cromarties slowest time is 4.34 in the 40 and is 6'1 185 that's huge at the CB spot.
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I would not want to be making the call between the two. 4.48 at 204 is moving, especially coupled with a 38" vert and great game films against Big 12 talent.
 
What did Flowers, Cason, Jenkins, & Lee run? I didn't see anything prior to the M's.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
I would not want to be making the call between the two. 4.48 at 204 is moving, especially coupled with a 38" vert and great game films against Big 12 talent.
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I agree 4.48 is a good time but a 4.28 is special and we have to look at what he averages proabably a 4.31 with both runs that's moving and 4.48 is a 4.48 no matter how we try to cut it with the size and all of that so to me i'm going with a guy who can run step for step with Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne vs. a guy who they both can run away from plus he has the height 6'1". Look at his cousin in San Diego Antonio Cromartie big and and fast and he is proabably the best corner in the NFL.
 
A few observations:

While DRC ran the fastest 40, he is also the lightest DB. He weighs something around 185 lbs, and these other guys weight close to 200 lbs. 15 lbs is pretty big when it comes to running a 40 yard dash. The guy is damn fast, but how fast would he be at 200 lbs? Could you say that his 40 time is equivalent to a 4.4 at 200 lbs? I dunno. 4.30 is impressive but you've got to look at the whole picture.

Trae Williams is pretty overrated guys. He is a pretty decent corner but the guy benefited from playing next to one of the best corners in this draft (a guy who has led the NCAA in pass deflections the last 4 years). Teams have been throwing to his side quite a bit the last few years and his INT stats show it. I know his stats are intriguing, but watching the guy play, he is pretty much average.
 
PHAROAH said:
I would still take cromartie because he can go man to man with the fastest wr's in the league and Talib times are average at best 4.48 that's pretty much 4.5 on average and cromarties slowest time is 4.34 in the 40 and is 6'1 185 that's huge at the CB spot.
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I know there should be a period somewhere in here. Sorry, the teacher in me.

I would be ok with either, but Id rather have Talib. He is a more physical CB and seems to be a little more versitle. He supports the run a little better and can jump like a gazel.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
Talib looks really tight in the hips, plus they just showed him getting burned by 4.51 Jordy Nelson.
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Talib whiffed on his bump at the line. Any corner will get burned if that happens. I look at the WRs the Texans face in division, and there aren't a lot of speed demons. There are a lot of big, physical receivers that Talib would matchup against very well. Talib would be a good fit, here.
 
PHAROAH said:
I agree 4.48 is a good time but a 4.28 is special and we have to look at what he averages proabably a 4.31 with both runs that's moving and 4.48 is a 4.48 no matter how we try to cut it with the size and all of that so to me i'm going with a guy who can run step for step with Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne vs. a guy who they both can run away from plus he has the height 6'1". Look at his cousin in San Diego Antonio Cromartie big and and fast and he is proabably the best corner in the NFL.
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Why does a guy have to run a 4.28 to keep up with Wayne and Harrison when neither one of those guys run faster than a 4.5? Harrison may have back in the day but not anymore and Wayne never did. THose 2 guys are great becuase of the routes they run, timing, and their ability to create seperation with burst. Has nothing to do with 40 time. SO that said I will take the guy that has the best recovery speed and best ball skills.

I am not going to fall in love with anyone based on a 40 time.....Ahmad Carrol anyone. ANd dont go over board on me either because I know that a guy that runs a 4.7 or 4.8 probably wont cut it at the CB position but the 40 is a "sexy" stat that doesnt mean THAT much.
 
Guys the tape doesn't lie on Talib and the workouts showed that he will get beat in man coverage because his hips were tight. I have a question for everyone who wants talib how many times did you see him in man coverage on film? The jayhawks played a lot of Zone coverages and the texans like to play in man coverage so he isn't a good fit IMO for what the texans want in a cornerback in the 1st round. I think that the best fit will be Leodis Mckelvin or D. Rogers-Cromartie.
 
TexansSeminole said:
A few observations:

While DRC ran the fastest 40, he is also the lightest DB. He weighs something around 185 lbs, and these other guys weight close to 200 lbs. 15 lbs is pretty big when it comes to running a 40 yard dash. The guy is damn fast, but how fast would he be at 200 lbs? Could you say that his 40 time is equivalent to a 4.4 at 200 lbs? I dunno. 4.30 is impressive but you've got to look at the whole picture.

Trae Williams is pretty overrated guys. He is a pretty decent corner but the guy benefited from playing next to one of the best corners in this draft (a guy who has led the NCAA in pass deflections the last 4 years). Teams have been throwing to his side quite a bit the last few years and his INT stats show it. I know his stats are intriguing, but watching the guy play, he is pretty much average.
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On Trae Williams, it seems as if you are knocking him because he played opposite "best CB in draft". His stats as you state seem to indicate he did good with ball coming at his area. Seems like just the guy I'd be looking for. A "pretty decent" cb in 4th round seems to be a positive not a negative. You sound like the guy that went into the upscale steak house and ordered the $4.99 special. It is a pretty good steak but not the rib eye.
 
CORNERBACKSName Time
Branch, Tyvon 4.31
Scandrick, Orlando 4.32
Rodgers-Cromartie, Dominique 4.33
Porter, Tracy 4.37
Grant, Michael 4.37
Wheatley, Terrence 4.37
McKelvin, Leodis 4.38
Wilhite, Jonathan 4.38
Jenkins, Mike 4.38
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers
*****************************
"Official times" from todays 40s for the CBs.
 
badboy said:
On Trae Williams, it seems as if you are knocking him because he played opposite "best CB in draft". His stats as you state seem to indicate he did good with ball coming at his area. Seems like just the guy I'd be looking for. A "pretty decent" cb in 4th round seems to be a positive not a negative. You sound like the guy that went into the upscale steak house and ordered the $4.99 special. It is a pretty good steak but not the rib eye.
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4th or 5th round. Yea he would be a good pickup. I was getting a vibe that he may be a 3rd round type of guy for us, and I just think it would be a big mistake. My point was that his INT stats are high because of how many balls he saw throughout his career. I'd easily bet that most of these guys didn't see nearly as many balls as Trae Williams did. Just watching him play overall, he is average. He is not football fast, and he didn't run a fast 40. He's also undersized. He reminds me alot of Faggins.

Do you see him being anything above average? If you do, what is it? I just dont see anything he does real well.
 
bigbrewster2000 said:
Why does a guy have to run a 4.28 to keep up with Wayne and Harrison when neither one of those guys run faster than a 4.5? Harrison may have back in the day but not anymore and Wayne never did. THose 2 guys are great becuase of the routes they run, timing, and their ability to create seperation with burst. Has nothing to do with 40 time. SO that said I will take the guy that has the best recovery speed and best ball skills.

I am not going to fall in love with anyone based on a 40 time.....Ahmad Carrol anyone. ANd dont go over board on me either because I know that a guy that runs a 4.7 or 4.8 probably wont cut it at the CB position but the 40 is a "sexy" stat that doesnt mean THAT much.
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First off I didn't say that we have to draft a guy that runs a smoking 4.28 and in my opinion I would rather have a guy that can play man coverage than to have a guy like Aqib Talib who played 80% Zone covarage at Kansas. The tape didn't lie when they played it on the NFL network the only time in man coverage he was beat bad by Jordy Nelson who runs a 4.51. During the drills his hips were tight and IMO I just would like to have a guy who can play man coverage and who can run with the fast wr's on the colts and if he happens to run a smoking 4.28 vs. 4.48 then i'm all for it and again that is my preference as a fan.
 
My favorite Safety prospect in this draft is Josh Barrett from Arizona St.

I saw that he ran a 4.35 at 225 lbs.

Is it true?

That's wicked for a SS.
 
TexansSeminole said:
4th or 5th round. Yea he would be a good pickup. I was getting a vibe that he may be a 3rd round type of guy for us, and I just think it would be a big mistake. My point was that his INT stats are high because of how many balls he saw throughout his career. I'd easily bet that most of these guys didn't see nearly as many balls as Trae Williams did. Just watching him play overall, he is average. He is not football fast, and he didn't run a fast 40. He's also undersized. He reminds me alot of Faggins.

Do you see him being anything above average? If you do, what is it? I just dont see anything he does real well.
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I don't think we will grab a CB starter in FA. I am a super fan of Stewart at #18 and don't think a trade down will occur. So at third I am either going with a LT or CB. I believe that Tony Hills will be our best shot at landing a LT that could possibly start by mid season. Although Heath Benedict of Division 2 has tweeked my interest this week. Check out 6'5" 325 lbs and 4.99 speed. Daaymm! What could this guy do under Gibbs? Back to my story. When I compare our needs with what is available in rounds, I think Williams would be a great 4th round. He would be our # 2 and might hold his own ala Bennett. I do see our offensive scheme especially with a locomotive like Stewart, keeping the D off field a bit more and that will benefit our DBs.
 
PHAROAH said:
Guys the tape doesn't lie on Talib and the workouts showed that he will get beat in man coverage because his hips were tight. I have a question for everyone who wants talib how many times did you see him in man coverage on film? The jayhawks played a lot of Zone coverages and the texans like to play in man coverage so he isn't a good fit IMO for what the texans want in a cornerback in the 1st round. I think that the best fit will be Leodis Mckelvin or D. Rogers-Cromartie.
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I do not necessarily disagree with your evaluation, but, depending upon Rhodes influence, we should expect to see plenty of zone.
 
badboy said:
I don't think we will grab a CB starter in FA. I am a super fan of Stewart at #18 and don't think a trade down will occur. So at third I am either going with a LT or CB. I believe that Tony Hills will be our best shot at landing a LT that could possibly start by mid season. Although Heath Benedict of Division 2 has tweeked my interest this week. Check out 6'5" 325 lbs and 4.99 speed. Daaymm! What could this guy do under Gibbs? Back to my story. When I compare our needs with what is available in rounds, I think Williams would be a great 4th round. He would be our # 2 and might hold his own ala Bennett. I do see our offensive scheme especially with a locomotive like Stewart, keeping the D off field a bit more and that will benefit our DBs.
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I don't think we will get a starting CB in the FA either.

A guy in the 4th round I would like alot is Chevis Jackson. He has good size and good ball skills but he does get beat early in routes a little too much for comfort. A guy in the 5th or 6th round that I like is Jonathan Zenon from LSU also. I actually think this guy is a better cover guy than Chevis Jackson and I am not so sure he doesn't go in the 4th round also.

I would really like for us to either go 1st round or 3rd round CB. There should be a few guys like Lee, Porter, Thomas, and Godfrey there in the 3rd.

With our need of a cornerback, and the strength of the corners in the first round, it just makes the most sense to me to take one in the first.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't think we will get a starting CB in the FA either.

A guy in the 4th round I would like alot is Chevis Jackson. He has good size and good ball skills but he does get beat early in routes a little too much for comfort. A guy in the 5th or 6th round that I like is Jonathan Zenon from LSU also. I actually think this guy is a better cover guy than Chevis Jackson and I am not so sure he doesn't go in the 4th round also.

I would really like for us to either go 1st round or 3rd round CB. There should be a few guys like Lee, Porter, Thomas, and Godfrey there in the 3rd.

With our need of a cornerback, and the strength of the corners in the first round, it just makes the most sense to me to take one in the first.
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I really like Jackson also but think he will go before we pick in 4th and maybe as high as 3rd round. Zenon will be right there with Darnell Terrell whom I like in 5th. I'd be ok with Zenon but Darnell bigger and faster.

I have CB as biggest need position but we can get a pretty good one in 4th and sign a franchise type back in Stewart or maybe Mendenhall who is having a pretty good combine. Fill one of your need positions with a franchise type player and get a " pretty good" player at CB. One thing last draft proved to me. Smith should fill our RB, LT and CB holes and still get solid players in 4,5,&6. Maybe even 7th (Zach Diles).
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't think we will get a starting CB in the FA either.

A guy in the 4th round I would like alot is Chevis Jackson. He has good size and good ball skills but he does get beat early in routes a little too much for comfort. A guy in the 5th or 6th round that I like is Jonathan Zenon from LSU also. I actually think this guy is a better cover guy than Chevis Jackson and I am not so sure he doesn't go in the 4th round also.

I would really like for us to either go 1st round or 3rd round CB. There should be a few guys like Lee, Porter, Thomas, and Godfrey there in the 3rd.

With our need of a cornerback, and the strength of the corners in the first round, it just makes the most sense to me to take one in the first.
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If I had a guarantee that Tony Hill would be available in 4th round, I'd go Godfrey in third.
 
PHAROAH said:
First off I didn't say that we have to draft a guy that runs a smoking 4.28 and in my opinion I would rather have a guy that can play man coverage than to have a guy like Aqib Talib who played 80% Zone covarage at Kansas. The tape didn't lie when they played it on the NFL network the only time in man coverage he was beat bad by Jordy Nelson who runs a 4.51. During the drills his hips were tight and IMO I just would like to have a guy who can play man coverage and who can run with the fast wr's on the colts and if he happens to run a smoking 4.28 vs. 4.48 then i'm all for it and again that is my preference as a fan.
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I have no argument with what you just said except that the colts recievers arent fast. That was my whole point not that I wanted Talib, mainly that the 40 time is not what I am concerned about. What I am concerned about are things like you said tight hips and deep coverage.

I was just pointing the speed thing out because you said you wanted a guy that could keep up with the Colts recievers. I Like I said, it is far more important to have the quick burst and coverage skills IMO.

And you did say that you wanted a guy that could run a 4.28 to keep up with the Colts recievers, thus implying that a guy that ran a 4.48 couldnt.
 
PHAROAH said:
The tape didn't lie when they played it on the NFL network the only time in man coverage he was beat bad by Jordy Nelson who runs a 4.51.
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You do realize there is more to beating a corner than running really fast straight ahead. The receivers that beat corners the most often are the best route runners, not the speed receivers.
 
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