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Best Trade Down Scenero

beerlover said:
do some research on the kid from Troy State (DeMarcus Wares school) Leodis McKelvin. he is ascending talent, electric speed & return abilities combined with better tackling skills. mark my words if he is there @ #18 the Texans will probably not trade down & take him, but you know as well as me that the Texans would still listen to trade down offers.
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I agree with you on this one. Especially if there is even an inkling of a thought that they might move Winston to LT. We could probably pick up Kirk Barton (if he slips) or Carl Nicks in the 4th round to play RT. I still like the idea of grabbing Cory Boyd (RB) in the later rounds.

By the way, how about trading our 3rd round pick for two 4th round picks & future considerations? Assuming of course, that anyone has two 4th's.
 
beerlover said:
there is no question about Adam Jones talent on the field, but could'nt the Cowboys get similar cb talent in the 1st without the off field distractions?

do some research on the kid from Troy State (DeMarcus Wares school) Leodis McKelvin. he is ascending talent, electric speed & return abilities combined with better tackling skills. mark my words if he is there @ #18 the Texans will probably not trade down & take him, but you know as well as me that the Texans would still listen to trade down offers.
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I like this kid more and more for the Texans every time I hear his name.
 
bah007 said:
I like this kid more and more for the Texans every time I hear his name.
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he could be the one. hopefully he'll get some air time the rest of the week @ the Senior Bowl so y'all can catch a peek. my biggest fear however is that he breaks out of the pack & establishes himself as one of the elite cb's. looking at his weigh in, still good size & build. 5-10 5/8" 190 lbs. 30" reach & bigger hands than Sam Baker (of course thats not saying much).

just for reference Dunta Robinson also measured 5-10 5/8" & weighed 186 lbs. @ 2004 combine.
 
beerlover said:
I would be surprised if there is not a run on them late 1st rd. Sam Baker, Jeff Otah & Chris Williams are all worthy, Gosder Cherilus too, even if he's projected to guard.
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I think you guys are giving to much value to some of the offensive lineman going in round 1 watch the senior bowl practices on the NFL Network and you will see the top 2 are golden the others are boarderline 1st round in reality 2nd round picks.

:thinking:
 
PHAROAH said:
I think you guys are giving to much value to some of the offensive lineman going in round 1 watch the senior bowl practices on the NFL Network and you will see the top 2 are golden the others are boarderline 1st round in reality 2nd round picks.

:thinking:
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I'm questioning one Sam Baker right about now, but Cherilus is solidifing his stock so while one moves down another rises.
 
threetoedpete said:
You could be well right. However, with the need at tackle...all over the legue... and the limited resource....you may as well wait on the project guys in the fourth and fifth ss select an OT in the third at what will be left on the board. What you are saying with that move is we are living with Salaam as the starter in "08. Also you are saying you will let the guys back up who are alredy signed to the roster.

Hitting a Tony Ugoh in the third would be a shear swing with your eyes closed home run. Gibbs better be a guru...or the Rb the second coming of Erick Dirkerson if your goal is to catch a play off spot. You currently have no depth at the C/G spot.

The FAs better make a monumental leap.

So beerlover just how many day two/FA O-lineman were blocking for the RBs yesterday ?
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Couple things about your post. First, day two guys up until now were 4th round and below. Next draft it will be 3rd and below which should offer better options if you want to use "day two" terminology. Yes, I do think Salaam will be the starter game one. At 6'7" 300lbs, even at his age he might be better in ZBS under Gibbs. I'm not sure those tackles available at #18 and below could beat out our incumbant. Many will disagree, but we will just have to wait and see. I am not a Jordan Black fan and truly hope he's gone. I disagee with you and think there will be a tackle or two in 3rd that will be better than waiting for a project in 4th. I do not consider any player that does not start until second year a "project" especially when Olinemen, Dlinemen and QBs hit stride in 2nd to 3rd years.

To clarify my position, I would go RB in first only if Stewart is there as I know only what I've seen posted on MB about Mendenhall. Otherwise, I go with LT in first as I have urged for several drafts. CB should be addressed in FA and maybe OLB.

Remember with Salaam, you have a guy that played most of the snaps last two seasons. A back up, even if a rookie draft selection that could offer a few plays off for our starter, could make Salaam the answer for another year. I think that is how Kubes and Smith GM will see it.
 
beerlover said:
there is no question about Adam Jones talent on the field, but could'nt the Cowboys get similar cb talent in the 1st without the off field distractions?

do some research on the kid from Troy State (DeMarcus Wares school) Leodis McKelvin. he is ascending talent, electric speed & return abilities combined with better tackling skills. mark my words if he is there @ #18 the Texans will probably not trade down & take him, but you know as well as me that the Texans would still listen to trade down offers.
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Personally I would not touch Pacman, yet I said the same about TO who had some good years with Dallas with out flaking out.
 
PHAROAH said:
Other than Long and Clady the other LT prospects in this years draft are not worthy of 1st round selection IMO maybe in the 2nd round. :thinking:
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Baker, Chris Williams (Vanderbilt) and Otah have 1st round possiblities and I think Gosder, Anthony Collins, Tony Hills and Oneil Cousins may be gone by our turn in third. Having said that, if Gibbs says he wants a LT before an RB it is possible that one of the last four could go in first if no trade getting a send or earlier third is made.

The key for me is can, not will, a trade down be made and what Gibbs thinks he requires. Again, corner back can throw a wrench into the whole thing. Let's say Texans do not resolve CB in FA as I hope and a great one is sitting there at 18. Hmmm.
 
Hottoddie said:
I agree with you on this one. Especially if there is even an inkling of a thought that they might move Winston to LT. We could probably pick up Kirk Barton (if he slips) or Carl Nicks in the 4th round to play RT. I still like the idea of grabbing Cory Boyd (RB) in the later rounds.

By the way, how about trading our 3rd round pick for two 4th round picks & future considerations? Assuming of course, that anyone has two 4th's.
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I vote NO on trading 3rd for two fourths.
 
PHAROAH said:
I think you guys are giving to much value to some of the offensive lineman going in round 1 watch the senior bowl practices on the NFL Network and you will see the top 2 are golden the others are boarderline 1st round in reality 2nd round picks.

:thinking:
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I am not going on my evaluation of talent, I usually want a different guy than Texans select anyway. I think there will be a strong desire to draft Oline this draft on day one.
 
badboy said:
Couple things about your post. First, day two guys up until now were 4th round and below. Next draft it will be 3rd and below which should offer better options if you want to use "day two" terminology. Yes, I do think Salaam will be the starter game one. At 6'7" 300lbs, even at his age he might be better in ZBS under Gibbs. I'm not sure those tackles available at #18 and below could beat out our incumbant. Many will disagree, but we will just have to wait and see. I am not a Jordan Black fan and truly hope he's gone. I disagee with you and think there will be a tackle or two in 3rd that will be better than waiting for a project in 4th. I do not consider any player that does not start until second year a "project" especially when Olinemen, Dlinemen and QBs hit stride in 2nd to 3rd years.

To clarify my position, I would go RB in first only if Stewart is there as I know only what I've seen posted on MB about Mendenhall. Otherwise, I go with LT in first as I have urged for several drafts. CB should be addressed in FA and maybe OLB.

Remember with Salaam, you have a guy that played most of the snaps last two seasons. A back up, even if a rookie draft selection that could offer a few plays off for our starter, could make Salaam the answer for another year. I think that is how Kubes and Smith GM will see it.
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http://www.drafthistory.com/teams/patriots.html

Well after seven years of floundering....you'd think we'd get it. I'm not worried about Salaam starting, I'm worried about him staying up right. MS would then become judas goat number II. Like MM's there bad, just can't choke on one ?
I'm wondering if we could possably run through two QBs in one season ? Well if they see it your way, my book says they'll never see year six.
 
Here is an attempt at a realistic off season:
In FA we sign
Travelle Wharton - LT Panthers
Terrell Suggs - DE Baltimore
Marcus Trufant - CB Seattle

These signings would fill three holes we have right away. Leaving FS, RB, OLB as three needs in the draft. I would trade out of the first with Atlanta for their two 2nd rounders ( chart value #18-900pts. - #37 - 530 pts., and # 49 - 420 pts. = 950 pts.) So my draft would look like this:
RD 2
a. Felix Jones RB Ark.
b. Ali Highsmith OLB LSU

RD3
Erin Henderson OLB Maryland

RD4
DaJuan Morgan FS NC State

RD5
Kirk Barton OT Ohio State

RD6
Xavier Omon RB NW Missouri St.

RD7
BPA

This would give IMO a starting 22 of
DEF.
Williams, Okoye,T. Johnson, Suggs - DL ( Formidable line capable of constant pressure )
Highsmith, Ryans, Henderson - LB ( 3 very athletic LB's )
Trufant, Bennett, Morgan, Demps - DB ( Hard Hitting, good cover Db's)

Offense
Wharton, Pitts, Eslinger, Briesel, Winston ( Young, capable line )
A.J. , Walter (Davis, Jones) Good receivers
Daniels (future pro bowl TE )
Schaub - QB
Leach - FB, Jones - HB( Green, Omon, Walker )

OK tear it apart
 
whiskeyrbl said:
Here is an attempt at a realistic off season:
In FA we sign
Travelle Wharton - LT Panthers
Terrell Suggs - DE Baltimore
Marcus Trufant - CB Seattle

These signings would fill three holes we have right away. Leaving FS, RB, OLB as three needs in the draft. I would trade out of the first with Atlanta for their two 2nd rounders ( chart value #18-900pts. - #37 - 530 pts., and # 49 - 420 pts. = 950 pts.) So my draft would look like this:
RD 2
a. Felix Jones RB Ark.
b. Ali Highsmith OLB LSU

RD3
Erin Henderson OLB Maryland

RD4
DaJuan Morgan FS NC State

RD5
Kirk Barton OT Ohio State

RD6
Xavier Omon RB NW Missouri St.

RD7
BPA

This would give IMO a starting 22 of
DEF.
Williams, Okoye,T. Johnson, Suggs - DL ( Formidable line capable of constant pressure )
Highsmith, Ryans, Henderson - LB ( 3 very athletic LB's )
Trufant, Bennett, Morgan, Demps - DB ( Hard Hitting, good cover Db's)

Offense
Wharton, Pitts, Eslinger, Briesel, Winston ( Young, capable line )
A.J. , Walter (Davis, Jones) Good receivers
Daniels (future pro bowl TE )
Schaub - QB
Leach - FB, Jones - HB( Green, Omon, Walker )

OK tear it apart
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I have no problem with that, I think you just put the Texans in the playoffs with those aquisitions :doot:
 
threetoedpete said:
http://www.drafthistory.com/teams/patriots.html

Well after seven years of floundering....you'd think we'd get it. I'm not worried about Salaam starting, I'm worried about him staying up right. MS would then become judas goat number II. Like MM's there bad, just can't choke on one ?
I'm wondering if we could possably run through two QBs in one season ? Well if they see it your way, my book says they'll never see year six.
Click to expand...

I want a LT! Now having said that I ask what makes you think Salaam can't stay up right? Granted he is not what we want, but can you not see that Kubes may think he can get by another year especially with Gibbs running ZBS and possible step up by back ups? Then throw in a possible return by Spencer?
 
whiskeyrbl said:
Here is an attempt at a realistic off season:
In FA we sign
Travelle Wharton - LT Panthers
Terrell Suggs - DE Baltimore
Marcus Trufant - CB Seattle

These signings would fill three holes we have right away. Leaving FS, RB, OLB as three needs in the draft. I would trade out of the first with Atlanta for their two 2nd rounders ( chart value #18-900pts. - #37 - 530 pts., and # 49 - 420 pts. = 950 pts.) So my draft would look like this:
RD 2
a. Felix Jones RB Ark.
b. Ali Highsmith OLB LSU

RD3
Erin Henderson OLB Maryland

RD4
DaJuan Morgan FS NC State

RD5
Kirk Barton OT Ohio State

RD6
Xavier Omon RB NW Missouri St.

RD7
BPA

This would give IMO a starting 22 of
DEF.
Williams, Okoye,T. Johnson, Suggs - DL ( Formidable line capable of constant pressure )
Highsmith, Ryans, Henderson - LB ( 3 very athletic LB's )
Trufant, Bennett, Morgan, Demps - DB ( Hard Hitting, good cover Db's)

Offense
Wharton, Pitts, Eslinger, Briesel, Winston ( Young, capable line )
A.J. , Walter (Davis, Jones) Good receivers
Daniels (future pro bowl TE )
Schaub - QB
Leach - FB, Jones - HB( Green, Omon, Walker )

OK tear it apart
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I can't find anything on Wharton for 2007 after he tore up his knee in 2006. Can someone address this potential Boselli?
 
badboy said:
I can't find anything on Wharton for 2007 after he tore up his knee in 2006. Can someone address this potential Boselli?
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Played every game. But most people see the Panther as protecting either Wharton or Jordan Gross. And Gross is a RT for them.
 
I think this would be a good trade down scenario with the Cowboys at #29 and we pick up the cowboys 2nd round pick.


RD.1- #29 - Felix Jones - Arkansas - RB
RD.2 - From Dallas - Terrell Thomas - USC - CB
RD. 3 - Phillip Wheeler - Georgia Tech - OLB
RD. 4 - Marcus Griffin - Texas - FS
RD. 5 - Chilo Rachal - USC - OG
RD.6 - Tommy Blake - TCU - DE
RD.7 - Shannon Boatman - FSU - OT

:fans: :bat:
 
I am playing here, Cowboys swap there two 1st this year and next years 3rd for the Pats 1st. The Cowboys take McFaddin who has dropped to #7. This gives the Pats #22 & 28.

Pats trade up to #18 with the #22 and #95 to grab Dan Connor before the Eagles grabbed him. At #22 QB Woodson has fallen and the Falcons who took Jake Long with there 1st pick decide to trade back into the 1st by giving up there #37 and #68.

Now we have a 2nd, 3 thirds, that's four guys instead of two in the the top 3 rounds. 37, 68, 79, 95, 114
Using Walters 1-24 Mock as a rough guide to draft order, I am going to slide a little both ways on some guys because that can and does happen.

37 - Derrick Harvey DE, solid RDE, explosive off the end
68 - Chevis Jackson CB NFL ready player can fill in for Dunta, and move to nickle when Dunta is back, whenever that is
79 - DaJuan Morgan FS Top FS according to Mike Mayock
95 - Duane Brown OT tackle that Gibbs can work with
114 - Ahtyba Rubin NT Next to Okoye, the middle of the DL becomes an explosion on every snap.
143 - Brad Cottam TE Supersized TE that can run routes and catch, injuries helped him drop.
174 - Thomas Brown RB Sparkplug RB
205 - Jeremy Zuttah OG can back four positions now, and we might to teach him OC. Has not given up a sack in two years at RT for Rutgers.

I did not get the LB I wanted. But this is how this shakes out.

Def primary rotations- DE Williams, Harvey Cochran Kalu
DT - Travis Johnson, Okoye, Rubin, Maddox
Lbs - Clark, Ryans, Greenwood, Diles, Barber, Anderson
CBs - Bennett, Jackson, Hutchins, Fletcher, (PUP Robinson)
S - Earl, Demps, Morgan, Brown, Harrison

Off primary rotations
QB - Shaub, Rosenfels
RB - Green, Dayne, Taylor and Brown
WR - Johnson Walters, Davis, Jones
TE - Daniels, Cottom, Bruenner, Dreessen
OTs - Winston, Salaam, Butler, Brown
OGs - Pitts, Frye, Studdard, Zuttah
OC - McKinney, Briesel, White

Add some mid level FAs and this could work.
 
threetoedpete said:
Are they going to repave Gibbs drive way ? Inquiring mind wish to know.
Brown has as much chance at starting for the Texans as I do.
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I don't think I had Brown starting. He appears to be the #4 OT on my list. So that would make him inactive for most games. Gibbs is known for taking throw away players and making the group of them top 10. You don't like Brown insert your OT that is available with the last pick in the 3rd, try John Greco or Heath Benedict. Also remember Cottom has the size and could add 20 lbs and move to tackle if Gibbs chooses (a couple year project at best). Also Joey Haynos say a scout has mentioned that about him also.

Also the odds are Salaam will be our OLT at the start of the year, even with taking a rookie 1st round "stud".
 
painekiller said:
I don't think I had Brown starting. He appears to be the #4 OT on my list. So that would make him inactive for most games. Gibbs is known for taking throw away players and making the group of them top 10. You don't like Brown insert your OT that is available with the last pick in the 3rd, try John Greco or Heath Benedict. Also remember Cottom has the size and could add 20 lbs and move to tackle if Gibbs chooses (a couple year project at best). Also Joey Haynos say a scout has mentioned that about him also.

Also the odds are Salaam will be our OLT at the start of the year, even with taking a rookie 1st round "stud".
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And that is exactly the trouble. We're always patching instead of building. Wanna reach at least take the big TE for the OLT, cottom .
At least Gibbs has a history of doing that. Twenty-eight games and couting...What year was Lepsis in when he hung them up? Your basing the whole '08 Season and the QBs health on Salaam making it sixteen games once again with your draft. Lotta eggs in that basket. Good Luck.
 
threetoedpete said:
And that is exactly the trouble. We're always patching instead of building. Wanna reach at least take the big TE for the OLT, cottom .
At least Gibbs has a history of doing that. Twenty-eight games and couting...What year was Lepsis in when he hung them up? Your basing the whole '08 Season and the QBs health on Salaam making it sixteen games once again with your draft. Lotta eggs in that basket. Good Luck.
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First off my name is not Smith, Kubiak, Gibbs, or Benson, so I have no clue how the team has evaluated the current roster. They may have already figured on one of the young guys at LT. Don't know. But there are some veterans OL on the roster that I want to watch this offseason at LT, Winston, Pitts, Butler, Frye, Spencer.

Next we do not know the board. We are playing a guessing game for fun, trying to open up people minds to new ideas, like a double trade down and no 1st rounder. You only complained about a late 3rd rounder, my 4th pick. I went with some one I liked last week in Houston, and Smith showed last year he likes to do that, take guys who play in the East West game in the later parts of the draft.

Again until FAs and the draft is over, none of use know what the team is doing. And I did point out Cottom as a possible position switcher. I think I addressed the trenches pretty well. Other than a few guys each year most OL draftees need time to adjust to the NFL, so I believe Salaam starts the season at OLT again no matter who you draft.
 
painekiller said:
I am playing here, Cowboys swap there two 1st this year and next years 3rd for the Pats 1st. The Cowboys take McFaddin who has dropped to #7. This gives the Pats #22 & 28.

Pats trade up to #18 with the #22 and #95 to grab Dan Connor before the Eagles grabbed him. At #22 QB Woodson has fallen and the Falcons who took Jake Long with there 1st pick decide to trade back into the 1st by giving up there #37 and #68.

Now we have a 2nd, 3 thirds, that's four guys instead of two in the the top 3 rounds. 37, 68, 79, 95, 114
Using Walters 1-24 Mock as a rough guide to draft order, I am going to slide a little both ways on some guys because that can and does happen.

37 - Derrick Harvey DE, solid RDE, explosive off the end
68 - Chevis Jackson CB NFL ready player can fill in for Dunta, and move to nickle when Dunta is back, whenever that is
79 - DaJuan Morgan FS Top FS according to Mike Mayock
95 - Duane Brown OT tackle that Gibbs can work with
114 - Ahtyba Rubin NT Next to Okoye, the middle of the DL becomes an explosion on every snap.
143 - Brad Cottam TE Supersized TE that can run routes and catch, injuries helped him drop.
174 - Thomas Brown RB Sparkplug RB
205 - Jeremy Zuttah OG can back four positions now, and we might to teach him OC. Has not given up a sack in two years at RT for Rutgers.

I did not get the LB I wanted. But this is how this shakes out.

Def primary rotations- DE Williams, Harvey Cochran Kalu
DT - Travis Johnson, Okoye, Rubin, Maddox
Lbs - Clark, Ryans, Greenwood, Diles, Barber, Anderson
CBs - Bennett, Jackson, Hutchins, Fletcher, (PUP Robinson)
S - Earl, Demps, Morgan, Brown, Harrison

Off primary rotations
QB - Shaub, Rosenfels
RB - Green, Dayne, Taylor and Brown
WR - Johnson Walters, Davis, Jones
TE - Daniels, Cottom, Bruenner, Dreessen
OTs - Winston, Salaam, Butler, Brown
OGs - Pitts, Frye, Studdard, Zuttah
OC - McKinney, Briesel, White

Add some mid level FAs and this could work.
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Your running backs absolutely suck!!!!!
 
really focusing on how the Texans assimilate into a more physical team given Kubiaks recent comments paired with the hiring of OC of running game Gibbs & soon to be DC in charge of secondary Rhodes. both positional players will be addressed in FA & the draft @ CB/OL/RB.

with enphasis on value I feel its more likely now than ever the Texans will trade down. odds are against the Texans that the ideal 1st rd. cb prospects will be available @ #18. same with the tackles, not sold on any of them for zbs. RB maybe but with additional 3rd I'd put money on the value of a RB who fits Gibbs system.

so here goes another scenero involving trading down, once again it involves Atlanta. the Texans trade #18 (900 points) for Atlanta high 2nd #37 & 3rd #68 (= 780 points). they get a discount on points & can select a top tier RB/QB who projects to be gone by the 2nd. the Texans could then select a zbs OT like Anthony Collins, Kansas. a best fit for Gibbs, toughness, measureables & upside. has long arms, size, nasty streak if he had stayed in would have been a 1st rd. pick in 09. with two 3rds you can get both a rb & cb. I'm thinking Forte with the Atlanta pick & bpa cb Branden Flowers, VT, Patrick Lee, Auburn, Chevis Jackson, LSU.
 
Prety much agree with that ...I do not believe they will be rednundant and draft another Petie...and that is what Jackson is. A heady player with marginal speed. We got that...in spades. Iowa Cb might fit. He had a great week.
 
threetoedpete said:
So does your pick of Tommy Blake in the 6th round. The only thing he could be used for is a paper weight in Kubiak's office.
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The guy could be a steal late if people figure out how to get his head right. He is a good kid who was a pre-season All-American and a 1st round type pick. People still haven't figured out what went wrong and my Mom is pretty close to the going ons at TCU. They need to get him back to where he was his junior year. The talent is there.
 
I don't know what you saw in the east west Shiners game....What I saw was a guy who was lost. He saw where to go, but his over weigth body couldn't deliver him where he needed to be. Believe what you want....

this guy just ate himself out of twenty million bucks or so. His prime weight is at 252. He is at 272. Now you're telling me he's going to drop twenty pounds and run a 4.7 in the combine....Ok I'm with ya. What I'm seeing is a guy who is a mere shell of what he was two years ago. What he was two years ago was a proto typical 3-4 OLB with an outstanding first step. Well he's lost the first step. And the only thing you could hope for is his crisis in faith would pass and he figures out that God made him to be a football player. No reason why you can't apostltize as a football player. First thing he has to do is make a commitment. One way or another Tommy Blake must grow up. He's gotta put something on the table first before someone will draft him.

Believe anything believe that.
 
threetoedpete said:
I don't know what you saw in the east west Shiners game....What I saw was a guy who was lost. He saw where to go, but his over weigth body couldn't deliver him where he needed to be. Believe what you want....

this guy just ate himself out of twenty million bucks or so. His prime weight is at 252. He is at 272. Now you're telling me he's going to drop twenty pounds and run a 4.7 in the combine....Ok I'm with ya. What I'm seeing is a guy who is a mere shell of what he was two years ago. What he was two years ago was a proto typical 3-4 OLB with an outstanding first step. Well he's lost the first step. And the only thing you could hope for is his crisis in faith would pass and he figures out that God made him to be a football player. No reason why you can't apostltize as a football player. First thing he has to do is make a commitment. One way or another Tommy Blake must grow up. He's gotta put something on the table first before someone will draft him.

Believe anything believe that.
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And that is exactly what I said. No need to rant. I didn't say he looked good. But the fact is he WAS a preseason All-American. The guy has the God given talent. If someone takes him with the 6th or 7th pick he could be a steal. It isn't like these guys don't drop lbs in a hurry and workout with trainers year round. The #1 thing is getting his head straight. Who knows what happened but I'm not going to critisize if it was a depression type issue that was real. Late rounds are guess work so if someone interviews him and thinks they can get #1 talent for a #6-7 pick, they will take a flyer.
 
HoustonFrog said:
And that is exactly what I said. No need to rant. I didn't say he looked good. But the fact is he WAS a preseason All-American. The guy has the God given talent. If someone takes him with the 6th or 7th pick he could be a steal. It isn't like these guys don't drop lbs in a hurry and workout with trainers year round. The #1 thing is getting his head straight. Who knows what happened but I'm not going to critisize if it was a depression type issue that was real. Late rounds are guess work so if someone interviews him and thinks they can get #1 talent for a #6-7 pick, they will take a flyer.
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Well I got Marcus Smith WR New Mexico as the as sixth round sleeper what the heck do I know? I'm just bracing you for the fact that the guy has more chance at being a free agent flop than he does at being drated by anyone. He is over weight and he shows abolutey no commitment what so ever. And what got him the pereason ranks is exactly what the guy dose not have now.

I have no idea what you're basing your faith that he can turn it around on ?


Rant ? Calls them as I sees them.
 
beerlover said:
really focusing on how the Texans assimilate into a more physical team given Kubiaks recent comments paired with the hiring of OC of running game Gibbs & soon to be DC in charge of secondary Rhodes. both positional players will be addressed in FA & the draft @ CB/OL/RB.

with enphasis on value I feel its more likely now than ever the Texans will trade down. odds are against the Texans that the ideal 1st rd. cb prospects will be available @ #18. same with the tackles, not sold on any of them for zbs. RB maybe but with additional 3rd I'd put money on the value of a RB who fits Gibbs system.

so here goes another scenero involving trading down, once again it involves Atlanta. the Texans trade #18 (900 points) for Atlanta high 2nd #37 & 3rd #68 (= 780 points). they get a discount on points & can select a top tier RB/QB who projects to be gone by the 2nd. the Texans could then select a zbs OT like Anthony Collins, Kansas. a best fit for Gibbs, toughness, measureables & upside. has long arms, size, nasty streak if he had stayed in would have been a 1st rd. pick in 09. with two 3rds you can get both a rb & cb. I'm thinking Forte with the Atlanta pick & bpa cb Branden Flowers, VT, Patrick Lee, Auburn, Chevis Jackson, LSU.
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bump, for ytf
 
I appreciate it. He was more valuable to our team than Talib, but didn't get the same hype. He should have stayed in school for his senior year but made a pact with Talib as Freshman.

However, I have a personal Vendetta against Collins because he allowed the sack at the end of the season against Mizzu on the last drive that killed KU's chance for perfection. Other than that, however, he was stellar.
 
I could be happy trading down and getting Anthony Collins, Kansas, and Patrick Lee, Auburn. Added to Forte or Choice, just think the RBs are going in the 4th.
 
upon countless hours breaking down the tackle class & trying to get the most bang for the buck to the Texans organization its my conclusion if they can trade down from the 1st rd. to the 2nd rd. they could address the LT position for the long term with Kansas All-American Junior, Anthony Collins. http://kuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121107aab.html most all the press (rightfully so) has gone to their other All American Junior, Aquib Talib (who would also garner attention by the Texans with the 18th pick) who declared early entry into the NFL. http://kuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/010708aab.html while Collins announcement went quietly into the hat. I also beleive if he had stayed his senior season he would be in the 1st rd. next year along with Michael Oher has the top tackle prospects. http://kuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/collins_anthony00.html

here is a tweek of the trade down option. say the Texans cannot find one of the really bad teams (early 2nd rd. picks) who want to trade but a team like Seattle (#25) wants Jonathan Stewart, so you trade back 7 spots. the Texans now have the 25th selection & Hawks 3rd (#85). try & trade down again depending on who is available balanced with incoming offers. lets say there is a cb who the Texans really like still on the board, maybe Talib or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie who you have to imagine if either is available they use the pick here.

now we're into the second rd. (past our traded away for Schaub pick to Atlanta) & Anthony Collins is still on the board would the Texans consider moving up to the 2nd using those two 3rd rd. picks to take the OT they want? we would not have a 3rd rd, pick anymore but we would have our new cb & LT

it sounds a little complicated, but its just being creative & finding ways to get the right players for the best value. its all about staying true to your draft board, not over reaching for need & knowing when to pull the trigger via alternate paths to achieve superior results.
 
just to be fair it seems this is turning into an all Kansas draft so should clarify I would also be happy with an all LSU draft, or Arkansas or USC or...............:specnatz:
 
already posted on my Texans Mock Draft taking Roy Schuening, G, Oregon State as the #1 option with 3rd rd. pick & I see no reason whatsoever to change that pick, unless a player who fits our system & grades out higher is available like Ray Rice.

Roy is an ideal fit for zbs. he is a Gibbs type of player, technique, diciplined, quick in space, smart & hard working. love his game & would give the OL a real shot converting to a more true Gibbs style of zbs. Still need to address Center position & you can do that with Mike Pollack, Arizona State in the 4th. of the Centers @ the Senior Bowl he was most impressive, did not get pushed around & seemed able to dictate direction @ the point of contact, moving well with solid base & good footwork/hands.
Click to expand...

Beerlover- I quoted you from the DRC thread ...how would you like this!?

Houston picks up a starting CB in FA without breaking the bank, and possibly a decent starting OLB. ATL drafts McFadden in the first, then trades their 2 2nd round picks to us so they can draft Brohm or Woodson:

2nd (thru ATL): Houston selects LT Anthony Collins
2nd (thru ATL thru HOU): Houston selects RB Ray Rice
3rd: Houston selects G Roy Schuening
4th: Houston selects C Mike Pollack
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
Beerlover- I quoted you from the DRC thread ...how would you like this!?

Houston picks up a starting CB in FA without breaking the bank, and possibly a decent starting OLB. ATL drafts McFadden in the first, then trades their 2 2nd round picks to us so they can draft Brohm or Woodson:

2nd (thru ATL): Houston selects LT Anthony Collins
2nd (thru ATL thru HOU): Houston selects RB Ray Rice
3rd: Houston selects G Roy Schuening
4th: Houston selects C Mike Pollack
Click to expand...
I'm ok with Collins but would go Jamaal Charles over Rice. If Charles gone, Rice is good. What about our 18 this year plus our first next season to Dallas for their two firsts in 08 and a 4th next season?
 
beerlover said:
upon countless hours breaking down the tackle class & trying to get the most bang for the buck to the Texans organization its my conclusion if they can trade down from the 1st rd. to the 2nd rd. they could address the LT position for the long term with Kansas All-American Junior, Anthony Collins. http://kuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121107aab.html most all the press (rightfully so) has gone to their other All American Junior, Aquib Talib (who would also garner attention by the Texans with the 18th pick) who declared early entry into the NFL. http://kuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/010708aab.html while Collins announcement went quietly into the hat. I also beleive if he had stayed his senior season he would be in the 1st rd. next year along with Michael Oher has the top tackle prospects. http://kuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/collins_anthony00.html

here is a tweek of the trade down option. say the Texans cannot find one of the really bad teams (early 2nd rd. picks) who want to trade but a team like Seattle (#25) wants Jonathan Stewart, so you trade back 7 spots. the Texans now have the 25th selection & Hawks 3rd (#85). try & trade down again depending on who is available balanced with incoming offers. lets say there is a cb who the Texans really like still on the board, maybe Talib or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie who you have to imagine if either is available they use the pick here.

now we're into the second rd. (past our traded away for Schaub pick to Atlanta) & Anthony Collins is still on the board would the Texans consider moving up to the 2nd using those two 3rd rd. picks to take the OT they want? we would not have a 3rd rd, pick anymore but we would have our new cb & LT

it sounds a little complicated, but its just being creative & finding ways to get the right players for the best value. its all about staying true to your draft board, not over reaching for need & knowing when to pull the trigger via alternate paths to achieve superior results.
Click to expand...

I like this. I believe this year draft is very strong & next years draft will be very weak due to all of underclassmen coming out. The 06 draft was strong & the 07 draft was weak because of this. That is why I would be for trading 09's draft picks for extra picks in this years draft. 07 2nd rounders included Mc Neil & Jones- Drew. I think Collins & Mc Neil are comparable.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
Beerlover- I quoted you from the DRC thread ...how would you like this!?

Houston picks up a starting CB in FA without breaking the bank, and possibly a decent starting OLB. ATL drafts McFadden in the first, then trades their 2 2nd round picks to us so they can draft Brohm or Woodson:

2nd (thru ATL): Houston selects LT Anthony Collins
2nd (thru ATL thru HOU): Houston selects RB Ray Rice
3rd: Houston selects G Roy Schuening
4th: Houston selects C Mike Pollack
Click to expand...

:specnatz:

it might be of some mild importance down the road that this was the year where the foundation was layed marking a real transformation to the Bronco Gibbs/Kubiak zbs. Because of our past/present personel they have been running a sort of hybred not a true zbs form. with Gibbs assistance, they're going to specificly target the talent which suits zbs. addressing/improving three starting OL positions is a long term proposition, along with a trigger RB like Rice or Forte to enhance its effectivness. Pitts remains @ LG & Winston RT with the others rehabing & retained for depth as long as not cap prohibitive. Rhodes knows the league & its defensive personel if he can match this with FA market talent (maybe a certain Seahawk CB) or other secondary, OLB, DT, DE mid-level cost talent he can coach up then I would say the Texans are in the buisness of winning :)
 
steelbtexan said:
I like this. I believe this year draft is very strong & next years draft will be very weak due to all of underclassmen coming out. The 06 draft was strong & the 07 draft was weak because of this. That is why I would be for trading 09's draft picks for extra picks in this years draft. 07 2nd rounders included Mc Neil & Jones- Drew. I think Collins & Mc Neil are comparable.
Click to expand...

Collins is MUCH quicker than McNeil when they play. Collins is also more athletic.

As it stands right now, this is who I'm targeting w/out a trade down.

1st:
a. Cromartie
b. Talib
c. McKelvin

3rd:
a. Collins
b. Rice
c. Bowman

4th:
a. Bennidict
b. Steltz
c. T. Thomas

Why?
Well, Cromartie is currently my top target. I think he will be NFL ready sooner than we all think, and his measurables coupled with his on-field performance at the senior bowl more him up the board. Talib is a great fall back option, as is McKelvin. I feel McKelvin will fall back to earth before the draft. In the third, Collins is my top target. He has long arms and a good kick-step, along with ideal size for a LT. Rice is my fall back plan, as he combines very good speed with toughness inside; he is bigger than most think. Bowman is a physical freak. Absolute freak. However, his hands cost him millions at the senior bowl, but Andre didn't have the best hands leaving Miami. His physical ability is too much for me to pass on; look at it like this: if his hands develop like Andre's did, we have two Andres. Bowman is that size with that speed and mentality. In the fourth I looked to pick up a very good lineman in Bennidict. He has been playing OT for Newbery, but I feel he is best suited to slide inside to guard. I have liked Steltz all year, and think he is just a player. Thomas from USC would be a very good addition to our DB's in the fourth round.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Collins is MUCH quicker than McNeil when they play. Collins is also more athletic.

As it stands right now, this is who I'm targeting w/out a trade down.
Click to expand...

don't forget Collins does not have back problems, yet he was taken in the 2nd rd. & proved well worth the pick. Collins is also a much better fit for zbs.

YoungTexanFan said:
1st:
a. Cromartie
b. Talib
c. McKelvin

3rd:
a. Collins
b. Rice
c. Bowman

4th:
a. Bennidict
b. Steltz
c. T. Thomas

Why?
Well, Cromartie is currently my top target. I think he will be NFL ready sooner than we all think, and his measurables coupled with his on-field performance at the senior bowl more him up the board. Talib is a great fall back option, as is McKelvin. I feel McKelvin will fall back to earth before the draft. In the third, Collins is my top target. He has long arms and a good kick-step, along with ideal size for a LT. Rice is my fall back plan, as he combines very good speed with toughness inside; he is bigger than most think. Bowman is a physical freak. Absolute freak. However, his hands cost him millions at the senior bowl, but Andre didn't have the best hands leaving Miami. His physical ability is too much for me to pass on; look at it like this: if his hands develop like Andre's did, we have two Andres. Bowman is that size with that speed and mentality. In the fourth I looked to pick up a very good lineman in Bennidict. He has been playing OT for Newbery, but I feel he is best suited to slide inside to guard. I have liked Steltz all year, and think he is just a player. Thomas from USC would be a very good addition to our DB's in the fourth round.
Click to expand...

where is your trade down in there?

Collins should grade out early to mid 2nd rd. he has great measureables especially for the Texans scheme & more upside than some of those 1st rd. tackles, no way makes it to the 3rd or middle of the 3rd. now in buried in this thead somewhere I did propose trading up into a mid 2nd level pick with him still on the board in exchange for a pair of 3rd's (aquired for trading down in the 1st & taking Talib) then selecting Collins.

I really like Ole Miss scenero :lion: its realistic we get great players that meet our needs then Rhodes does his defensive FA magic.
 
NFL Draft Scout is upgrading their server so if you go to the website you can access some free information right now until later this afternoon. check it out :music: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/

anyway I clicked on 2008 offensive prospects Center list & noticed that Pollack is now rated as the #1 Center prospect & given a 2nd rd. grade. so go ahead & scratch off that hopeful 4th rd. selection I was espousing :cool:
 
beerlover said:
NFL Draft Scout is upgrading their server so if you go to the website you can access some free information right now until later this afternoon. check it out :music: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/

anyway I clicked on 2008 offensive prospects Center list & noticed that Pollack is now rated as the #1 Center prospect & given a 2nd rd. grade. so go ahead & scratch off that hopeful 4th rd. selection I was espousing :cool:
Click to expand...
Have it on my favorites and just finished reviewing new info on LT Tony Hill of U.Texas. He had ten blocks that resulted in touch downs and gave up one QB sack in 07. 3 penalties, 1 was personal fouls and 2 holding.

The more I think on it, if Stewart or Mendenhall is available at 18, I want that rather than a trade down. You get a possible franchise RB and a very good candidate in Hills for the ZBS. His speed/weight ratio seem to be just what dr. ordered. I'd look strong at FS in 4th. I see CB and OLB in free agency.
 
badboy said:
Have it on my favorites and just finished reviewing new info on LT Tony Hill of U.Texas. He had ten blocks that resulted in touch downs and gave up one QB sack in 07. 3 penalties, 1 was personal fouls and 2 holding.

The more I think on it, if Stewart or Mendenhall is available at 18, I want that rather than a trade down. You get a possible franchise RB and a very good candidate in Hills for the ZBS. His speed/weight ratio seem to be just what dr. ordered. I'd look strong at FS in 4th. I see CB and OLB in free agency.
Click to expand...

I love Hills, but in some games last year he just looked soft.

He moved over from TE so his technique is still raw.

I love his size & speed though. Incredible athleticism for a LT.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
Beerlover- I quoted you from the DRC thread ...how would you like this!?

Houston picks up a starting CB in FA without breaking the bank, and possibly a decent starting OLB. ATL drafts McFadden in the first, then trades their 2 2nd round picks to us so they can draft Brohm or Woodson:

2nd (thru ATL): Houston selects LT Anthony Collins
2nd (thru ATL thru HOU): Houston selects RB Ray Rice
3rd: Houston selects G Roy Schuening
4th: Houston selects C Mike Pollack
Click to expand...

If this happened I'd do backflips after the draft.

ATL has the firepower to move up and NEEDS a QB...but if McFadden is there how can you pass up that kind of talent? Especially after the vick Fiasco. Something has to pull fans back in.
 
Goldensilence said:
If this happened I'd do backflips after the draft.

ATL has the firepower to move up and NEEDS a QB...but if McFadden is there how can you pass up that kind of talent? Especially after the vick Fiasco. Something has to pull fans back in.
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking all long. I got my head on the block over a cowboys move up...but if they don't, with McFaddin the Falcons have a guy who instantly gives them a workhorse at RB. Nothing against Warwick Done, er Dunn....but there are only so many draws you can run. McFaddin can move the chains for you. The fact that they do have the twoes...means they can patch with a FA or pick the pick of the litter at Qb as they pass by. I meaan the o-line is already set up for the ZBS. Bring in another young Qb to groom, draft a hot shot o-lineman...they can be competitve out of the gate. Makes sense to me. Saw where the Brownies are comikng off of their #1 demand of anderson and are now just looking for a two in compenstion. Interesting.
Take Anderson to hold the fort & groom up the Young guy...come back and draft Dennis Dixon or the hot shot out of of San Deigo Johnson, as the groom guy. Micheal who ?
 
Maddict5 said:
the more i hear if anthony collins, the more i want to take him- even at 18
Click to expand...

Me too but as crazy as I am about it...I let you post that. I'm not as frantic as I was last year with Thomas and Brown on the board...I can see the argument of moving back or taking the CB. And there is enough tallent on the board, I'm not going to be too upset if they hold their water and go RB/CB. After the third it gets a little dicey. The scouts come up with a worst case scenario starter for Salaam after the thrid, they will have earned their oats.
 
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