R
real
Guest
If you want to take those stats from a limited sample, and clearly in situations which weren't always the best for a QB to succeed....then be my guest....
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Schaub Listed As Top Breakout Star for 2007
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If you want to take those stats from a limited sample, and clearly in situations which weren't always the best for a QB to succeed....then be my guest....
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
1. Green is 37, and he was best available at that point- if he could've gotten Schaub for a conditional 5th round pick in June, I'm sure he would've
2. If the Browns would've gotten Schaub, obviously that would've freed them to take someone other than Quinn- which I'm sure Crennel would've appreciated doing- particularly now that Quinn is apparently very unimpressive in OTAs.
3. McNair is beat up and aging and has difficulty getting the ball downfield these days. Troy Smith-- give me a break!
4. The Raiders tried to trade for Schaub before the draft but were outmaneuvered by the Texans
5. The Bucs have a stop-gap in Garcia, a retired vet in Plummer, and two guys- gradowski and simms who've proven to have serious issues
Texans Horror
All Pro
I'd be willing to open it up to his entire career, but that kind of facetiousness almost makes him sound like a rookie...
R
real
Guest
Texans Horror
All Pro
I think if they really wanted Matt, they would have gotten him. They all had the chance. There must be a reason that those teams chose the quarterbacks they did, and I doubt it was simply that Matt wasn't available. Maybe the problem is that the Texans are the only team who thought Matt was worth two second-round picks.
I think your "very solid reasons" are a matter of perspective. Stats are great for fantasy football, but fail to provide background for a deeper analysis. We can spin an argument in just about any direction with stats.
Perhaps I believe in Coach Kubiak more than I should, but I'm not going to be negative on his decisions and choices without giving him a chance to implement them. Kubiak chose Schaub, and he's had some great things to say about his potential to run this offense.
While I will not address the ignorant assumptions made by some, nobody has crowned Schaub as 'king'. There are those of us that wish to enjoy the seemingly positive direction that this franchise is headed, and that is just a choice for each individual fan to make.
Texans Horror
All Pro
What else is new
Why Tru, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Working from the same statistics:
He's thrown 6 interceptions but 4 of them were his rookie year. One of them last year happened in the Dallas game when he was down 10 points and had 26 second to go in the game and he threw it 60 yards into the endzone hoping his WR could make a play. That's 5 picks I don't have a problem with and I don't know offhand what was up with the 6th.
His QB rating his rookie year was 42. When he played a couple of full games in his second year, his rating was 98.1. Then in spot action his third year, his rating was 71.2. In the Dallas game, he went 3/5 with one pick but I've already pointed out the situation of that one pick. That's going to make his rating look worse. So I don't see any problem with his QB rating.
If you look at his rate of long throws, it's over TWICE what Carr was getting and that's if you include Schaub's and Carr's rookie stats. Last year, Carr had 442 attempts and 3 of them ended up in 40+ yard plays; in his career, Schaub has had 161 attempts and 4 of the have ended up in 40+ yard plays. If Schaub gets that same ratio and has the same number of attempts that Carr had last year, he'll get almost 11 40+ yard plays.
You point to his statistics as a reason to be worried and what I see there makes me hopeful.
R
real
Guest
I'd be willing to open it up to his entire career, but that kind of facetiousness almost makes him sounds like a rookie...
Yeah, because your past has nothing to do with how people percieve you in the future ?
As I said, there are no real arguments as to why Schaub will be a failure ; merely a few fans that bring up hypothetical situations in which all the positives some how amount to the guy failing...
But, that's JMO.
R
real
Guest
Maybe the Texans were the only team smart enough to give up two second round picks.
It's all a matter of perspective.
Texans Horror
All Pro
Must be a matter of perspective cause any time a stat shows Matt in a negative way, or it is mentioned how poor and unchanged the line is, some people shrug it off.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
dude whatever, unlike you, I saw the emperor had no clothes and I saw that long before most people. Schaub has yet to play a down yet you criticize him and pine for your little Carr boy. Something tells me that you don't know squat.
I haven't said anything about Schaub being the definitive answer, but one thing I have said is that he deserves at least a snap before all you Carr zealots start throwing him under the bus. After all we gave that pinup doll of yours 5 years before most people woke up.
once again, I refer you to the Panthers board as you have little faith and even less smarts. take your negative nancy krap elsewhere. while you are at it, please learn to construct a proper sentence as your current vernacular outs you as an ignorant and bitter Carr homer. k thx bye
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
what is really pathetic is the people that are the first to criticize Schaub before he even plays a down for the Texans are the same yokels who still homered for Carr even after 5 years of just embarassing QB play.
I don't know what is going to happen this year in regards to Schaub or anything for that matter. He may or may not succeed. One thing I do know is that some of you guys have an agenda because your little boyfriend choir boy pansy got sent packing. its sad and pathetic.
I don't know what is going to happen this year in regards to Schaub or anything for that matter. He may or may not succeed. One thing I do know is that some of you guys have an agenda because your little boyfriend choir boy pansy got sent packing. its sad and pathetic.
Porky
Hall of Fame
The line isn't that poor imo, especially if/when Spencer returns. If he can't return, LT is certainly an issue, as it is for 25 or so other teams. It may not be a great or even good line, but with a healthy Spencer it's at bare min about the NFL average, and improving.
As far as stats go, figures lie, and liars figure. I don't know how many times some fan from another team would wonder why many of us were so down on Carr last year. After all, they would point out, his completion % was great and his QB rating was pretty good until the end. Without the benefit of watching the games they didn't know that much of that was because the offense was dumbed down and most of his passes were little hitches and screens and so forth. And some fans are simply not very insiteful/knowlegable/perceptive even if they do watch the game. Stats don't win games, people do. I never saw a 90.8 QB rating win a game. Have you?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Ultimately, some people wanted Carr to continue to be our QB and are going to look for anything to hold against Schaub becuase he's not Carr.
If you're going to look at statistics, then you've got to interpret what they mean. If you say that Schaub has thrown 6 TD's and 6 INT's, well, that's only slightly better than Carr. But if you analyze those numbers, then they're actually much better than that. It's because of analysis like that and taking the game situations into account that so many people considered Schaub the best QB on the market.
Is Schaub a "proven" commodity? No. Was there a proven commodity out there that we could have gotten? Only flawed proven commodities. Our FO made the move to bring in the best QB that was on the market this offseason. Whether the move is going to work out or not remains to be seen.
Now, the next question is just how poor is our offensive line? Were the sacks given up a product of how bad the line was or how bad the QB was? Will "fixing" the QB position fix the line? That's the question. I think it will, you think it won't. That's not shrugging it off. That's just not agreeing. We'll have to see which way it goes.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
One could make that argument about any of the QBs. For instance, Oakland was trying to trade down but nobody offered the "right" price". Quinn fell to 20 something- anyone could've traded up for him or taken him where he fell. I'm sure almost any QB in the league could be gotten for a price. However, there is only one team that actually pulls the trigger- that doesn't neccessarily mean the team overpayed for him. By that definition, every player in the league was overpayed for.
Drew Brees was available last year and 31 teams passed on him- I guess that means NO overpayed? Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Every team in the NFL could've had him 5 times. I guess NE overpayed for him?
Yes, I think the Falcons could want to revisit that decision.
R
real
Guest
LOL, that's your problem...
You keep leaning towards stats as your indicator....
No wonder you were so high on Dave...
When I talk about the positives of Schaub I'm not talking about anything statistical....
Historyhorn
Waterboy
Look, the premise of my post was not to take into account the contract situations, what each team spent for the player, how many current QB's are on their roster. I know full well, that I'm neither an NFL coach nor an NFL GM, but I'm speculating and simplifying things by declaring that we're looking at each team having the straight up opportunity send their number one to us and our number one to them without cap concerns, draft picks, etc. Just potential production over the next three to five years.
So I'll answer your concerns:
The Dolphins got Trent Green with a fifth round pick as he was at the deadline for having to be cut from KC. He's productive but older than dirt. He's also like a candle....One good blow and he's out. The Dolphins would trade Trent "Methusela" Green for Schaub in a heartbeat.
The Browns aren't sold on Frye and took Quinn as their QB for the future, but there are serious question marks about Quinn's skills. Quinn will probably need at least part of the year to learn before he even takes the field and then let the horror show begin. Put Schaub behind their improved line (new OT, Steinback), Jamal Lewis, their recieving threats (Edwards, KWII), and their improving defense and they become competitive in the toughest division in the NFL. No playoffs, but in it until the last two or three weeks.
The Ravens got McNair because Boller couldn't cut it and was a bust. Their defense is the best in the league, but with Boller at the helm, their offense was so anemic, they couldn't make the playoffs. McNair helped them to a division crown, but he's a mobile QB who is aging. They'd trade because Schaub offers a better potential for success over 3 to 5 years. McNair is also an injury waiting to happen. Baltimore will contend again this year, but with Schaub, they'd contend for the next five. Anyone who would take Troy Smith over Schaub has sniffed too much glue. He could surprise, but no-one would rate him over Schaub.
The Raiders spent the number one overall on Russell, but he's at least a year away from really being able to help that team. His physical skills might make him a better QB than Schaub in five years, but over those five, they'll lose a bunch as he gets seasoned and learns the ropes. The Raiders would trade spots. Would you as a Texans fan take Russell straight up to lead the team this year? It'd spell at least three more years of losing.
Finally, the Bucs. They don't have a starting QB. Chris Simms has nevery recovered from having his spleen ruptured and then removed.
They've got Garcia who is on the downhill side of his career. Two years maybe? Chucky would take Schaub and send Garcia without a second thought. Don't even get me started with that Gradkowsky (sp?) cat.
The point is there are lots of teams who would like to have Schaub instead of who they've got, but circumstances get in the way. After the season, player's stock may rise or fall, but Schaub would give at least 13 teams a better chance to win than what they've got right now IMO.
Go Texans
lostboy
Undrafted Free Agent
Overalls
All Pro
Not that I am ready to say Schaub is the next great QB or that he will be a bust, but he has played 3 years, not 4
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
How many has Quinn thrown in the NFL or Russell? Every QB is inkown until they get the chance to start on a consistant basis, you bring up stats about how he has performed on a limited basis and want to use them to prove a point that holds no water.
Texans Horror
All Pro
Never was that high on "Dave."
R
real
Guest
You're right....
You just wanted to keep him around for one more year because you are the rare breed of fan that actually likes watching bad QB play....
Gotcha!
Texans Horror
All Pro
Excellent point. I'm sure there's several QBs the Texans would trade Schaub for. For example, this Ultimate Mock Draft has the Texans taking Vince Young if they could take any player available (P. Manning, Brady, and Palmer were already chosen).
Texans Horror
All Pro
The point is that there is more reason to doubt that MS will be the Golden Child from Game 1 than simply "he is an unknown." The stats can back it up. They do hold water. You may disagree with them, but they fit.
R
real
Guest
Again we revert back to the stats...
I don't even think you really, truly believe in your own mind that those stats prove or even suggest a damn thing....
Texans Horror
All Pro
I am humbled by everybody's passion for the Texans and their love for this guy. Believe me when I say I want Matt to succeed. But I have been told many times that the Texans have "the answer," going way back to their first picks. I have also seen an unwillingness to give players a chance to develop. It seems a good portion of the fan base wanted players canned after their first rookie mistake. I have seen Williams, Babin, Weary, and Winston all called busts at one point or another. The guys loved today are panned by October. I suspect at that time I will be arguing with some of you the same thing I am arguing now - that Matt will need time to develop. The only difference is that you will be calling for his head instead of giving him such unflinching praise. Just my 
Texans Horror
All Pro
Again we revert back to the stats...
I don't even think you really, truly believe in your own mind that those stats prove or even suggest a damn thing....
Suggest? Definitely.
R
real
Guest
I guess whatever floats your boat.
If you choose to look at stats without the context in which they were accumulated then I guess they could 'suggest' a whole lot.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Damn...
Porky
Hall of Fame
I am humbled by everybody's passion for the Texans and their love for this guy. Believe me when I say I want Matt to succeed. But I have been told many times that the Texans have "the answer," going way back to their first picks. I have also seen an unwillingness to give players a chance to develop. It seems a good portion of the fan base wanted players canned after their first rookie mistake. I have seen Williams, Babin, Weary, and Winston all called busts at one point or another. The guys loved today are panned by October. I suspect at that time I will be arguing with some of you the same thing I am arguing now - that Matt will need time to develop. The only difference is that you will be calling for his head instead of giving him such unflinching praise. Just my
Huh? Name another QB that has had five years of the "quality" of play that David Carr had that is still fawned over by so many. Most fans, myself included, were extremely patient with the guy, but sooner or later you have to fish or cut bait. If he played in Philly they would have carved him up like a Thanksgiving Turkey and eaten him for lunch by now, and that is just the media. The fans would have then picked the leftover meat off his bones. Houston fans are some of the most patient and fogiving in the Country.
I have not seen Winston or Weary called busts. They were drafted too low to achieve that label. Babin, yes to some extent has been a bust, but again I think the majority of the fanbase has been extremely patient. On Mario, I myself have used the bust label, but only in relationship to his rookie year, and what we could have had instead. I can only speak for myself, but I am certainly not writing him off as a career bust. He still has a chance to be an impact player. You can't compare a rookie with a 5 yr vet. Keep things in their proper prospective. I will say that Mario and Jason Babin need to crap or get off the pot this year.
The stats are too limited to have a high confidence level in the negative impression they indicate.
Schaub has played in too few games (that I daresay most of the members of this board haven't even seen) to form a solid basis for some of the level of success that is being predicted for him.
The most accurate prediction is that he will be better than Carr. While this is true, it doesn't say much. Rags and Sage would have been too, given the same opportunities Carr enjoyed. This is not to say Schaub isn't any better than those two, by the way.
Personally, I think most of the detailed analysis based on his very limited playing experience is jejune. However, until game time that is all we have.
Schaub has played in too few games (that I daresay most of the members of this board haven't even seen) to form a solid basis for some of the level of success that is being predicted for him.
The most accurate prediction is that he will be better than Carr. While this is true, it doesn't say much. Rags and Sage would have been too, given the same opportunities Carr enjoyed. This is not to say Schaub isn't any better than those two, by the way.
Personally, I think most of the detailed analysis based on his very limited playing experience is jejune. However, until game time that is all we have.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
jk, very well put.
michaelm
vox nihili
Hey, if you're going to spin his stat for passes over 40yds as "just 4 in four years" why don't you spin his interceptions as "just 6 in four years"?
Well, maybe you need to work on presenting accurate facts (3 years, not 4) before you get around to polishing your consistency...
Maybe we can spin it as such:
After his rookie year, he has a QB rating of nearly 85.
In that time he has a better than 2 to 1 td/int ratio.
Also in that time, he threw a 40+ yard pass every 17 completions, and a 20+ yard pass every 5.666 completions...
He has only started 2 games in his career, yet has 1033 yards and 6 tds.
Those are all factual stats...
I got them here:
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050
I'm not saying anything about how I think Matt Schaub will perform this year... merely pointing out how malleable stats can be.
michaelm
vox nihili
rickyb
Scarlet is hot.
I'll grant you, we do not yet know if Schaub is the answer.
But we do know, with certainty, that Carr was not. Both he and the Texans benefit from a change of scenery.
rickyb
Scarlet is hot.
thank you!
(there should be one of those animated widgets for a nuclear mushroom cloud)
If you treat Schaub like you would a rookie QB, then you'd go by his college career. And those stats are nothing to sneeze at:
YR Team......| G | CMP ATT PYD TD IN
2001 Virginia | 11 | 140 240 1524 10 8
2002 Virginia | 14 | 288 418 2976 28 7
2003 Virginia | 11 | 281 403 2952 18 10
I'm not predicting anything with Schaub or even implying that he's definitely going to be a great QB.
What I have advocated is for Texans fans to be positive about our future, to hope that the signs we've seen so far are indications of greater things, and to actually believe in this team.
Is that really so hard to do? We gave our previous QB the benefit of the doubt, so why not do the same with our new QB?
Until the season starts and we actually see things in action, being positive or negative is a choice you make as a fan. But be careful of the company you keep when choosing to have a negative perspective, as some of those folks are bitter from a personality flaw.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
you have an agenda and no one is buying it. please go away. k thanks bye.
I think the bigger question is can you deal with it.
Why the hate, caddy?
I'd say the last thing that strikes me when you post is "fear". Probably the first thing I think of is pity, to be honest.
It's gonna' be alright, man. When the Texans get this thing going, and it's only a matter of time, I won't hold your negative attitude against you. I just hope it doesn't kill you first and you get to enjoy Texans success with the rest of us.
Porky
Hall of Fame
The reason that they keep bringing up Carr in response to your drivel is simple. They and everyone else that has seen your writings over the years, know you have a hidden agenda. Jeez, do you really take these people as fools? They weren't born on the back of a turnip truck ya know. They may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I think most folks don't consider him the only problem . I think most folks think that if you can change one position and make the most impact ... it would be QB .
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
whatever, go directly to Panthers board. do not pass go, do not collect $200. this is for fans of the Texans not fans of some crappy QB with nice hair.
R
real
Guest
Neither do I. But he was definitely a part of the reason and being the QB that magnifies the fact. It's just life. Get over it.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's nothing new but I do disagree with this. I think there are plenty of instances where 1 person was the reason a team wasn't winning. Just last year, you've got the Titans losing and losing bad with Kerry Collins at the helm and then becoming winners with Young. You've got the Cowboys having problems with Bledsoe at the helm and then getting better with Romo at the helm.
How many times over the years have we seen teams be good with a good (or great) QB but when that QB goes down, the team falls apart? Are the Saints in the hunt for a playoff spot last year with Aaron Brooks as the QB?
One player can be the reason a team is a losing team. And in our case, I think one player was the reason we were a losing team last year. That doesn't mean that I think there are no other weaknesses on the team. But I think that with a better QB and no other improvements, we could have gone 9-7.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
The question is... why hasn't that idea occurred to YOU?
We finished 6-10. I can think of 4 games that we lost that we could easily have won. Our QB play was really bad and we could have won all of those games, and possibly others, with better QB play. That's 10-6 right there. So, yes, I think it's fairly obvious that with a different QB we could have gone 9-7.
Do you deny that we went 6-10?
Do you deny that we lost a game in overtime?
Do you deny that we lost a game in the last 30 seconds?
Do you deny that we lost a game by 4 points where our QB threw for 176 yards (which is over his average)?
Do you deny that we lost a game by 6 points where our QB gave the other team a TD when he fumbled and it was returned for a TD?
Why do you think that 9-7 was out of our grasp last year? Do you think we weren't one or two plays away in those other games?
I always gave David Carr the benefit of the doubt until last year. Carr had better protection last year and looked horrible. I'm excited about Schaub, he looks like a QB that can make good reads and get the ball to someone who can make a play. Carr never learned to make his reads, maybe his fault maybe bad line play, doesn't matter now.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Dude. What is it with you and gambling? Have you thought about seeing help about that?
Now, go back and read my post. How far away from 9 wins were we last year? That's the question.