Dunta_23
Rookie
You are kind of right....at the level they tendered him at now...they receive no compensation, but as the other poster said, at the next level up they would have gotten a 2nd rounder had he gotten signed
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Vonta Leach Signs Giants Offer Sheet - Texans Match
- Thread starter Buffi2
- Start date
You are kind of right....at the level they tendered him at now...they receive no compensation, but as the other poster said, at the next level up they would have gotten a 2nd rounder had he gotten signed
12Gage
Noob
SamuraiSword
Waterboy
come on Rick Smith Get-R-Done!!!!!
Arky
Veteran
Whelp, I have to give some kudos to the NY Giants personnel dept for spotting Leach. You'd think a street free agent might slip under the radar. Somebody over there was watching!
Leach is, according to Kubiak, a different type of football player... Clark Kent in practice, Superman during the game. I've known some football players like this before - teammates can be shocked sometimes at how well they play during the game....
Ya, there have been a few. Moulds comes to mind. You gotta think it is very difficult to bat 1.000 as a GM and/or Coach combo.... Things are going to happen - one just hopes they get more right than wrong...
Leach is, according to Kubiak, a different type of football player... Clark Kent in practice, Superman during the game. I've known some football players like this before - teammates can be shocked sometimes at how well they play during the game....
Ya, there have been a few. Moulds comes to mind. You gotta think it is very difficult to bat 1.000 as a GM and/or Coach combo.... Things are going to happen - one just hopes they get more right than wrong...
Let's try this again
Practice Squad
Yea but if that would've been the case then the Giants probably would live with out him knowing that a 2nd rdr would be at stake.
Nothing to be too upset about
Quibbling over 450 K for a productive player & fan favorite, even though his position may be the offenses equivalent of the safety positions on defense
in terms of relative importance, is an example of "penny wise and pound foolish" if I ever heard one in the area of cap management.
in terms of relative importance, is an example of "penny wise and pound foolish" if I ever heard one in the area of cap management.
GP
Go Texans!
Exactly.
Leach wasn't offered the big $ from NY for nothing. He's worth it.
This is the one signing that I have been nervous over (the most).
As GM, he struck gold on Leach...there's no telling if you can reproduce that result if you let Leach go. We saw how much Cook (as our FB) cost us in terms of potentially being the game-losing play vs. Giants.
Then Leach comes in, and that stuff was stopped in its tracks.
Lock him up for four years and never worry about the FB position unless he gets injured. Lock...it...up.
R
real
Guest
Hmmmm....This is interesting...kinda....
I don't think he'll be back though...
I doubt the Texans match the offer...
I don't think he'll be back though...
I doubt the Texans match the offer...
MightyTExan
It's go time!
I think Reese's Titan blood is flowing and is trying to screw us as he has been taught to do by Bud all those years..............................
Stampede
Waterboy
Nope, this is all Mario's fault. He shoulda never done that ballin stuff on the Giants field last year.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Agreed. I'd like to see him back, but if Smith and Co. do not think he's worth the amount of money offered...eh let him go. If he were a Means, Alstott or Strong then by george throw some money at him. IMO, if a FB doesn't have that kind of talent then he's just another FB. I won't cry in my pie either way.
GP
Go Texans!
I give it a 50% chance that we match it.
We have, IMO, a new GM and HC who are rescuing this team from the clutches of mis-spending. I can see us making the decision of "That's too much to spend on the FB position...we'll just go out and find another guy."
There's a strong sense around here, by Kubiak and Smith, that they are supremely confident in their ability to unearth hidden gems. And that sort of mentality lends itself to letting players go when they eat up too much salary...especially when the team is in such dire need of help at virtually every position imagineable.
Therefore, I will not be surprised if we do not match the offer. I'd rather keep one foot on ground (in reality) than both feet in the air (in high expectation).
I say we lock him up for the four years and then never have to worry about it unless he gets injured.
We cut a lot of dead weight recently, guys who were injured or just past their usefulness, so maybe we did it in anticipation of needing to spend a little on Leach.
We have, IMO, a new GM and HC who are rescuing this team from the clutches of mis-spending. I can see us making the decision of "That's too much to spend on the FB position...we'll just go out and find another guy."
There's a strong sense around here, by Kubiak and Smith, that they are supremely confident in their ability to unearth hidden gems. And that sort of mentality lends itself to letting players go when they eat up too much salary...especially when the team is in such dire need of help at virtually every position imagineable.
Therefore, I will not be surprised if we do not match the offer. I'd rather keep one foot on ground (in reality) than both feet in the air (in high expectation).
I say we lock him up for the four years and then never have to worry about it unless he gets injured.
We cut a lot of dead weight recently, guys who were injured or just past their usefulness, so maybe we did it in anticipation of needing to spend a little on Leach.
texans83
Rookie
I put my faith in Smith and Kubes. They found this guy off the street and if they dont think he is worth that much money then fine let him go and wish him luck but I think they know they can findsome one else for less money and I put my trust in them to do just that. I dont think they will spen that much money in him IMO
The Giant's GM is Jerry Reese, who has been with NY since '94.
Floyd Reese resigned in January as the Titans' GM after 21 seasons in the organization, 13 as GM.
R
real
Guest
I hope we don't match, or draft one.
I'd rather pick up two or three undrafted free agents and let them battle it out...
MightyTExan
It's go time!
The Giant's GM is Jerry Reese, who has been with NY since '94.
Floyd Reese resigned in January as the Titans' GM after 21 seasons in the organization, 13 as GM.
My bad, I thought he went to the Giants..........................
Vinny
shiny happy fan
donno, this is a wco with heavy fullback involvement. The 5th and 6th rounds should get you a top caliber fullback....we need one if we are going to run this offense. If you just want the crappy offense you saw in years past we should trot out fodder like you want. I'd look for us to take a FB as early as round 4. For instance, I love the kid from Tennessee....he can do it all and would upgrade Leach imo.
Blake
MMQB
Im still a little bitter about not taking Lawrence Vickers [FB Colorado] last year. I hear he is going to be the starter this year. I didnt know we were in the FB market, but I guess without Vonta, we are.
R
real
Guest
Cory Anderson....the kid from Tennessee
Sounds like your opinion of Leach is lower than some on this board...
I saw a couple good things out of Vonta, but IMO, he isn't really worth the money...
I agree that we need a good fullback with this offense, but I just don't think that there are going to be a lot of teams drafting them...I could be wrong...
Another FB that'd be good in our system is Deion Anderson from Conneticut.
R
real
Guest
It's more to it than "smashing fools" in our offense...
He needs to be able to catch and run a little...
Exithios
Waterboy
And not to mention, he needs to be able to read defenses and catch the blitz. The fullback can very well be the last stop before the QB is sacked.
GP
Go Texans!
Also heard that the guy from Rutgers might be beefing up to transition into an NFL FB. He's got great hands, great feet, and made some clutch plays in some big games.
He'll probably be gone by 2nd or 3rd, though.
When we see what we paid dead weight, over the past four years, then I don't understand why we can't pay a guy like Leach who actually contributes in an effective manner. Just seems to be "the right thing to do" when we paid guys like Todd Wade and Gary Walker so much money.
Oh well, I guess it's gonna go down like it's gonna go down eh?
He'll probably be gone by 2nd or 3rd, though.
When we see what we paid dead weight, over the past four years, then I don't understand why we can't pay a guy like Leach who actually contributes in an effective manner. Just seems to be "the right thing to do" when we paid guys like Todd Wade and Gary Walker so much money.
Oh well, I guess it's gonna go down like it's gonna go down eh?
R
real
Guest
Are you talkinga bout Brian Leonard ?
He started as a running back but moved to fullback to make room for Ray Rice...
He is losing weight because he wants NFL people to think of him as a running back...
Exithios
Waterboy
My understanding, Brian Leonard was doing just the opposite. He was dropping weight to show the NFL he could be a Tailback. He would have been smart to build on his success at the fullback position IMO, he was a very successful fullback and a mediocre to below average tailback at best.
texans83
Rookie
this is also what I heard. I think if we do draft someone then it should be in the 5 or later. I agree that I think we can pick up someone that can fill in in the later rounds.
Andrew6
All Pro
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/03/20/leach.giants.ap/index.html
I don't see the Texans going out of there way to acquire him. At 7 million dollars I don't the Texans picking up too many players. If this has alreaady been posted, sorry. I saw it on SI and wasn't sure if anyone caught it or not.
I don't see the Texans going out of there way to acquire him. At 7 million dollars I don't the Texans picking up too many players. If this has alreaady been posted, sorry. I saw it on SI and wasn't sure if anyone caught it or not.
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
I noticed a few people upset about the money offered Leach when you say another 450K would have kept the Giants from offering because of a second round pick, but Leach was an unkonwn commodity before last season so the offer was a legit one in order to have the right of first refusal. I am sure most on this board would not of thought a contract that size would have been offered. Also, the Texans are in cap hell until all this dead money is off the books.
I want him back because he is a proven commodity and drafting any player 4 thru the 7 rounds is hit and mis. Why not draft a guy in the 6th as a back-up and if you find out he can do the job then cut Leach and save the money on the remainder of Leaches contract.
I want him back because he is a proven commodity and drafting any player 4 thru the 7 rounds is hit and mis. Why not draft a guy in the 6th as a back-up and if you find out he can do the job then cut Leach and save the money on the remainder of Leaches contract.
R
real
Guest
I can just imagine Giant fans with a WTF look on their faces....
dtran04
Veteran
Battle from UH would be decent.
I don't see why the Texans couldn't match the offer sheet, and trade Leach to the Giants for a 2nd day pick. I still think they screwed up not giving Leach the 2nd round tender. Not that any team would give up a 2nd round pick for Leach, but they could have gotten a sign & trade deal for a 2nd day pick that would have resulted in less dead money. Still, the Texans could get something out of this.
TheCD
Rookie
My point wasn't that it would have kept us from losing him, but that at least we would get something as compensation. As of now, we won't get anything if we lose him.
If they definitely wanted him back ,they would have probably tendered him at the next level. No other team would give up a 2nd round draft pick for Leach so that would have effectively taken him off the market.
It's possible that the Texans gambled and lost on this deal, thinking that no one was going to offer him more than the 850k that the Texans did.
Or it's quite possible that the Texans valued Leach as a 850k per year player and aren't interested in paying him 2 million per year.
Or it's possible that the Texans were fishing (to see what the market was) -thinking that they might be able to sneak him through the process and hang on to him - while holding some bait in reserve just in case they had to come up with more $$$ to eventually lock him up. That's a stretch.
After thinking about it a bit, I have a feeling the Texans won't match. If they do, they will be admitting that they underestimated his value and screwed up the tender, OR they were trying to lowball him.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
It's worth $8 million for 4 years. It includes $1.6 mil in guarantees. I didnt see any posts about this so i'll put the site up here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2805169
We have seven days to match it.
Looks like Leach turned some heads with his performance at the end of the year last year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2805169
We have seven days to match it.
Looks like Leach turned some heads with his performance at the end of the year last year.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
I don't understand why people are getting so worked up over this.
The Texans took a chance on the minimum, and maybe that is what they think the guy is worth! Only one team has shown great interest, so maybe it's the Giants that are overpaying in relation to value. If he is such a commodity, where are the other teams?
We traded for Moulds this time last year, and I said the Texans overpaid because they could have gotten him after he cleared waivers. Now, he is no longer on the squad. The Texans overpaid there.
Leach was drafted then cut by the Packers after two years and we picked him up later.
The Texans have zero little invested into this deal except for what they paid him.
Like I said, maybe the Giants are reaching on this one. Due to increases in the cap, there are guys that are getting pay raises that probably shouldn't. Keep that in mind with regards to Leach.
The Texans took a chance on the minimum, and maybe that is what they think the guy is worth! Only one team has shown great interest, so maybe it's the Giants that are overpaying in relation to value. If he is such a commodity, where are the other teams?
We traded for Moulds this time last year, and I said the Texans overpaid because they could have gotten him after he cleared waivers. Now, he is no longer on the squad. The Texans overpaid there.
Leach was drafted then cut by the Packers after two years and we picked him up later.
The Texans have zero little invested into this deal except for what they paid him.
Like I said, maybe the Giants are reaching on this one. Due to increases in the cap, there are guys that are getting pay raises that probably shouldn't. Keep that in mind with regards to Leach.
Probably because our rushing game was non-existant with Cook starting at FB.
Example:
Moran Norris is now considered a top 5 fullback after leading the way for Domanick, and now taking Frank Gore (49ers) to the pro-bowl and a career year.
ROCKY
Noob
I think everyone is crapping on the FO just for crap's sake. Vonta was pulled into the Texans squad OFF THE STREETS. Just finding him tells you alot about Rick Smith (along w/several other "off the street guys" who had an impact). They did'nt drop the extra cash for the second rounder deal because who would have thought Vonta would be so good?
After all he was just a crappy player picked up by a crappy gm for a crappy team (yes, that's sarcasm, aimed at all the REALLY negative people on the board)
PS. that being said....match the deal Rick.
After all he was just a crappy player picked up by a crappy gm for a crappy team (yes, that's sarcasm, aimed at all the REALLY negative people on the board)
PS. that being said....match the deal Rick.
R
real
Guest
Vonta Leach was a GB guy...
Rick smith didn't do a bad job, but it's not like he was just doing some hell-uv-a scouting either....
hollywood_texan
All Pro
That doesn't mean the only solution is Leach by matching the Giants offer.
we know leach works. everyone else is a gamble.
isn't the deal going to be backloaded anyways...there is rarely a deal that is done 4yrs 8 mill that is worked at 2 mil/per year...it's usually something in the 450,000 range that ends up at 3.5 mil the last year...i haven't read anywhere that if we match the deal that we have to garentee the whole deal either...just that 1.6 mil of it is garenteed...am i correct in that?
i don't see a reason not to match the offer
i don't see a reason not to match the offer
Exactly...we have too many questions already...let's lock up Leach as the answer to the FB position for the next 4 yrs. Get'er done Smith!
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Nice post A.J.
Well the reason I'm getting worked up over this, the emergence of Leach last year just happened to coincide with the return of the running game after Spencer went down. With Leach you had a lock for a decent rushing attack even with the grey beards at OLT, and running back. With out him, you're basically starting over. Dayne and Green have to have a sliver of day light to make it work. The iso play was just about all they had at the end of last year. Now in all probablity that's gone off to N. Y. all we're left with is the dinks and dunks passes. Yeah he didn't cost much, but it's going to be a bear to replace him. Someone that young that compitent...we're you going to get him from ?