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David Carr Subject about to come up on PTI Pardon The Interruption

Second Honeymoon

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
just an fyi

Carr is going to be a subject for PTI here after this commercial break. It doesnt look like it is going to go well for him. ESPN
 
Aikman is wicked smart....Geez, if he wanted to run a football team either managing or coaching, I wouldn't have a problem with him getting the keys.
 
LOL Wilbon was spot on....he pretty much said that the Texans look like idiots passing on a QB in the best QB class in decades if they draft a rookie a year later in a poor QB class.
 
Vinny said:
LOL Wilbon was spot on....he pretty much said that the Texans look like idiots passing on a QB in the best QB class in decades if they draft a rookie a year later in a poor QB class.
Click to expand...

No surprise that Wilbon called it like it is. Both pretty much stated that they wont draft a QB in the 1st Round. I don't think they should either and because of this, expect the Texans organization to do the exact opposite and draft a QB in the 1st Round.

My draft board for Texans
OT Joe Thomas
DE Gaines Adams
WR Calvin Johnson
DT Alan Branch
CB Leon Hall
FS Leron Landry

Any one of those guys could come in and help from Day One. I know it sounds kinda stupid but I think they should hope Gaines Adams falls to him. He is the perfect yin to Mario's yang. Mercurial DE opposite Herculean DE....hello Peyton, nice to have met ya
 
Second Honeymoon said:
No surprise that Wilbon called it like it is. Both pretty much stated that they wont draft a QB in the 1st Round. I don't think they should either and because of this, expect the Texans organization to do the exact opposite and draft a QB in the 1st Round.

My draft board for Texans
OT Joe Thomas
DE Gaines Adams
WR Calvin Johnson
DT Alan Branch
CB Leon Hall
FS Leron Landry

Any one of those guys could come in and help from Day One. I know it sounds kinda stupid but I think they should hope Gaines Adams falls to him. He is the perfect yin to Mario's yang. Mercurial DE opposite Herculean DE....hello Peyton, nice to have met ya
Click to expand...

I think Calvin Johnson and Joe Thomas will be gone before we pick.....I'd definitely take Thomas, but I know AZ needs a new LT.

As for Branch and Adams....I just think we have too much money spent on the Oline. Williams, TJ, and Babin were all 1st rounders....all are getting paid like 1st rounders.

I'd take the last 2 guys Hall and Landry if we win a few more games and pick later.

I guess you're not big on Peterson since you didn't put his name up there...just curious as to what holds you back from him?
 
Vinny said:
LOL Wilbon was spot on....he pretty much said that the Texans look like idiots passing on a QB in the best QB class in decades if they draft a rookie a year later in a poor QB class.
Click to expand...

Eh, I disagree. We believed that Kubiak could ressurect Carr, there is nothing to ashamed of in that. We were wrong, eh, it happens. So we missed out on Cutler, Young, and Leinart - that doesn't make it foolish to draft Russell if we truly believe he can be our future.

If, 5 years down the road, we passed up Young in '06 draft, drafted Russell in the '07 draft, and made a Super Bowl appearence in '09 would it really look that silly?

Building a football team isn't about preserving your pride, it is about putting the best product on the field as you can. If you make a mistake, like we obviously did in '06, there is nothing wrong with recognizing that and moving past it. There is nothing more ominous than letting our '06 mistake dictate our '07 draft. Acknowledge your mistake, learn from it, and move on - don't let it control future decisions.
 
NEROtheZERO said:
Eh, I disagree. We believed that Kubiak could ressurect Carr, there is nothing to ashamed of in that. We were wrong, eh, it happens. So we missed out on Cutler, Young, and Leinart - that doesn't make it foolish to draft Russell if we truly believe he can be our future.
Click to expand...
Carr had 60 NFL starts before he was extended to 60 mil in salary and 3 more years. He starts 14 more games and then there is nothing to be ashamed of in your qb evaluation? In whose universe?
 
Vinny said:
Carr had 60 NFL starts before he was extended to 60 mil in salary and 3 more years. He starts 14 more games and then there is nothing to be ashamed of in your qb evaluation? In whose universe?
Click to expand...

Well, if we were working under the premise that Carr's flaws were products of the previous coaching staff's system and coaching tactics, which we were, and thought our super-genius new HC could fix those problems, which he didn't, then it makes sense.

I understand that it would have been prudent to go ahead and draft a QB in case we were wrong, but we didn't and to realize and fix our mistake now is more beneficial to the team than would be sulking over hindsight.

All I am saying is that dwelling on past mistakes creates future mistakes. Regardless of how wrong our past decisions were and regardless of what we missed out on because of those decisions, there is no reason to pass up a QB that we feel can make our team a contender.
 
Kornheiser also brought up Plummer coming in to replace Carr and Wilbon acted like it was the dumbest thing he eve heard. He acted like he'd never heard of the idea although it's been talked about for weeks.

Kinda went like this:

"Plummer?!!! No way they'll bring Jake Plummer in!!!"

I think it was schtick just to dig at Kornheiser. That's what the show's about.
 
NEROtheZERO said:
Well, if we were working under the premise that Carr's flaws were products of the previous coaching staff's system and coaching tactics, which we were, and thought our super-genius new HC could fix those problems, which he didn't, then it makes sense.

I understand that it would have been prudent to go ahead and draft a QB in case we were wrong, but we didn't and to realize and fix our mistake now is more beneficial to the team than would be sulking over hindsight.

All I am saying is that dwelling on past mistakes creates future mistakes. Regardless of how wrong our past decisions were and regardless of what we missed out on because of those decisions, there is no reason to pass up a QB that we feel can make our team a contender.
Click to expand...
I understand, but as an organization it looks like you are incompetent when you give a guy that much money and a year later he is the exact same guy he was the first three years. Now you need a QB and not one of the QB's in this draft grade as high as the 3rd best QB in last year's draft class. It just reeks of incompetence is all I'm saying. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 but it's not all hindsight when half the fans here were begging for a change last year.
 
NEROtheZERO said:
Well, if we were working under the premise that Carr's flaws were products of the previous coaching staff's system and coaching tactics, which we were, and thought our super-genius new HC could fix those problems, which he didn't, then it makes sense.

I understand that it would have been prudent to go ahead and draft a QB in case we were wrong, but we didn't and to realize and fix our mistake now is more beneficial to the team than would be sulking over hindsight.

All I am saying is that dwelling on past mistakes creates future mistakes. Regardless of how wrong our past decisions were and regardless of what we missed out on because of those decisions, there is no reason to pass up a QB that we feel can make our team a contender.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying, but drafting high for QB this year seems to be investing in .com's a year after the bubble burst and it isn't coming back in the foresable future.

They missed the wave, they don't need to try a catch a wave that really isn't there.

:snobord:

I think that is what Vinny is trying to say.

Also, it's tough to draft your way out of a QB mess when you took the QB mess #1 in the draft 5 years ago and missed on an excellent opportunity the year before.

They missed it, fix it from a different direction that isn't so expensive or risky is what I am saying. This team has so many other issues.
 
Vinny said:
I understand, but as an organization it looks like you are incompetent when you give a guy that much money and a year later he is the exact same guy he was the first three years. Now you need a QB and not one of the QB's in this draft grade as high as the 3rd best QB in last year's draft class. It just reeks of incompetence is all I'm saying. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 but it's not all hindsight when half the fans here were begging for a change last year.
Click to expand...

I agree with that. I guess I just feel it would compound troubles if we went another offseason without fixing them. The same thing goes for the o-line.
 
i dont know a whole lot about gaines adams..but i think we need to build up that d-line. Might not technically have to be during the draft..but mario cant be double teamed forever...we need to build it up so strong, that the opposing teams need to put 7 or 8 at the line to block us.
 
Vinny said:
Carr had 60 NFL starts before he was extended to 60 mil in salary and 3 more years.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's $46.2 million total earnings if he satisfies all 7 years of his initial contract plus three year option (through '08) which he won't. About 12 million of that $46.2 is his base for '07 and '08 which is in some serious jeopardy at the moment. That said, the 30+ million in real dollars he's been paid since '02 is ridiculous considering the minimal return.
 
Vinny said:
LOL Wilbon was spot on....he pretty much said that the Texans look like idiots passing on a QB in the best QB class in decades if they draft a rookie a year later in a poor QB class.
Click to expand...

I understand what Wilbon said, but....... the Texans look like idiots regardless what we do in the '07 draft. The only thing that will keep the Texans from looking like idiots..... is if we get the running game going.... & David starts playing better.

Cutting David..... we still look like idiots.

trading David.... we still look like idiots.

Starting David..... we look like we're too dumb for our own good.
 
We look like idiots until we start winning. Hence, do whatever it takes to start winning games over teams not named the Jaguars in '07.
 
I remember the words that came out of Wilbon's mouth were "dysfunctional franchise" when the idea came up of drafting a QB in the 1st round.

It looks like the national media is coming around to the thinking of realistists around here.
 
NEROtheZERO said:
Eh, I disagree. We believed that Kubiak could ressurect Carr, there is nothing to ashamed of in that. We were wrong, eh, it happens. So we missed out on Cutler, Young, and Leinart - that doesn't make it foolish to draft Russell if we truly believe he can be our future.

If, 5 years down the road, we passed up Young in '06 draft, drafted Russell in the '07 draft, and made a Super Bowl appearence in '09 would it really look that silly?
Building a football team isn't about preserving your pride, it is about putting the best product on the field as you can. If you make a mistake, like we obviously did in '06, there is nothing wrong with recognizing that and moving past it. There is nothing more ominous than letting our '06 mistake dictate our '07 draft. Acknowledge your mistake, learn from it, and move on - don't let it control future decisions.
Click to expand...



Preach!!!! Winning is the cure-all plain & simple.
 
NEROtheZERO said:
Well, if we were working under the premise that Carr's flaws were products of the previous coaching staff's system and coaching tactics, which we were, and thought our super-genius new HC could fix those problems, which he didn't, then it makes sense.

I understand that it would have been prudent to go ahead and draft a QB in case we were wrong, but we didn't and to realize and fix our mistake now is more beneficial to the team than would be sulking over hindsight.

All I am saying is that dwelling on past mistakes creates future mistakes. Regardless of how wrong our past decisions were and regardless of what we missed out on because of those decisions, there is no reason to pass up a QB that we feel can make our team a contender.
Click to expand...

Right On. Regardless of what the experts on and off these boards say NONE of the QBs drafted last year are Hall of Famers yet. Lets just get our team better however it takes.
 
Tayton said:
Right On. Regardless of what the experts on and off these boards say NONE of the QBs drafted last year are Hall of Famers yet. Lets just get our team better however it takes.
Click to expand...


I love how these guys in the media can judge a draft before the season is even over. They'll be biting their tongues in a few years if Mario becomes what we expected him to be and we're winning.
 
atxcoolguy said:
I love how these guys in the media can judge a draft before the season is even over. They'll be biting their tongues in a few years if Mario becomes what we expected him to be and we're winning.
Click to expand...


No, they won't be. There's a youtube video floating around near the top of the board about the Expansion draft. On the YouTube site, it's linked to the 2002 College Draft in which you can clearly hear Mel Kiper state in reference to Carr and Harrington that 3 or 4 years from now, no one's going to be calling either of these guys busts or disappointments.
 
Sarg01 said:
No, they won't be. There's a youtube video floating around near the top of the board about the Expansion draft. On the YouTube site, it's linked to the 2002 College Draft in which you can clearly hear Mel Kiper state in reference to Carr and Harrington that 3 or 4 years from now, no one's going to be calling either of these guys busts or disappointments.
Click to expand...

That's what I mean though....they're biting their tongues and not saying that maybe they were wrong about Carr and Harrington.
 
NEROtheZERO said:
Well, if we were working under the premise that Carr's flaws were products of the previous coaching staff's system and coaching tactics, which we were, and thought our super-genius new HC could fix those problems, which he didn't, then it makes sense.

I understand that it would have been prudent to go ahead and draft a QB in case we were wrong, but we didn't and to realize and fix our mistake now is more beneficial to the team than would be sulking over hindsight.

All I am saying is that dwelling on past mistakes creates future mistakes. Regardless of how wrong our past decisions were and regardless of what we missed out on because of those decisions, there is no reason to pass up a QB that we feel can make our team a contender.
Click to expand...

Nice post rep coming you way.
 
[[Gary Kubiak]];547457 said:
I think Carr needs a new scenery. 5 years is enough for any QB. Thunder is right, we will look like idoits either way. More likely Carr will fo somewhere else and make us look bad.

In his defense in 5 years:

- We never had a top 20 defense
- A top 20 running game
- A pocket that collapses faster than anybody else

For his own good, he needs to go somewhere.
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Our first year we had a pretty damn good defense.....atleast top 15. We had a top 20 running game the past 2 years....last year we were 15th in the league in rushing, 2004 we were 12th in the league in rushing. Got the stats off nfl.com
 
Yea but ask anyone.. ANYONE around the US that watches or pay attention to the NFL... ask them

What do you think of when you talk about the Texans.

9/10 will say "Worst Offenseive Line"
 
t_flare said:
Yea but ask anyone.. ANYONE around the US that watches or pay attention to the NFL... ask them

What do you think of when you talk about the Texans.

9/10 will say "Worst Offenseive Line"
Click to expand...


sadly...that's probably true. What would the 1/10 say?
 
David Carr is damaged good right now, we may never know what he could have been if put in right environment but now he is not capable of carrying a team on his back by him self. When David Carr was drafted he was a franchise quarterback similar to Payton Manning and Carson Palmer but now he is broken down man, allot of things have gone wrong for him. If Mr. bob McNair want to salave Carr and bring him again next year then he needs to draft Adrian Peterson and build the offensive line this off season.

How quickly we forget about Oilers. I have been watching football in Houston 30 years now and I can say Oilers were just as bad as the Texans with Dante Pasterini at the helm and every one wanted him out of town (aka David Carr) but he was saved when the Oilers drafted Earl Cambell in 1978. Mr. Bob McNair can do the same by drafting Adrian Peterson this off season.

We will end up some place around 4 -6 in draft position and AD should be available to us. David Carr can be salvaged if he has Adrian Peterson behind him. Kubiak also need to fix the offensive line this off season. With the improvement of running game and better offensive line Carr career can be salvaged some what in Houston.

But don't ever expect Carr to become Payton Manning, Carson Palmer or Warren Moon clone.

Texans didn't make any mistake when they drafted Mario Williams, he was the right pick and a need pick as well. Vince Young may have many qualities but he is not Payton Manning, Carson Palmer or Warren Moon. Give couple of years before we judge 2006 class.

Adrian Peterson >>>>> Reggie Bush
Payton Manning, Carson Palmer >>>>> Vince Young
Adrian Peterson = Eric Dickerson

Here I said it all.
 
dbspi said:
Texans didn't make any mistake when they drafted Mario Williams, he was the right pick and a need pick as well. Vince Young may have many qualities but he is not Payton Manning, Carson Palmer or Warren Moon. Give couple of years before we judge 2006 class.
Adrian Peterson >>>>> Reggie Bush
Payton Manning, Carson Palmer >>>>> Vince Young
Adrian Peterson = Eric Dickerson

Here I said it all.
Click to expand...

It's funny. This was the statement made by every sports analysist when Mario was leading the pact. Then when Young beat us and Reggie had two good games this statement flew out the window.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Any one of those guys could come in and help from Day One. I know it sounds kinda stupid but I think they should hope Gaines Adams falls to him. He is the perfect yin to Mario's yang. Mercurial DE opposite Herculean DE....hello Peyton, nice to have met ya
Click to expand...


I don't think it sounds too stupid. If he is the only guy available to us and we can't draft down I say go for it. I don't think it will happen though.
 
El Tejano said:
It's funny. This was the statement made by every sports analysist when Mario was leading the pact. Then when Young beat us and Reggie had two good games this statement flew out the window.
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Yeah.. well at that time, our QB looked competent to the outside world..

Now, he looks like a joke.

Mario still wasn't a bad pick. If there were no Vince, or Reggie in this draft, I doubt anyone would question our choice. He is worthy of the #1 overall....... just like David Carr was...... once upon a time.

Had David thrown 4 TDs instead of INTs this past Sunday...... no one would question our decision.
 
Tayton said:
Right On. Regardless of what the experts on and off these boards say NONE of the QBs drafted last year are Hall of Famers yet. Lets just get our team better however it takes.
Click to expand...

atxcoolguy said:
I love how these guys in the media can judge a draft before the season is even over. They'll be biting their tongues in a few years if Mario becomes what we expected him to be and we're winning.
Click to expand...

El Tejano said:
It's funny. This was the statement made by every sports analysist when Mario was leading the pact. Then when Young beat us and Reggie had two good games this statement flew out the window.
Click to expand...


Great replies. Good to see some rational thinking.

The greatest QB class in years? Nah...Still unproven at this point.

How about greatest prospects in years.

Ryan Leaf was a great prospect his first year, we all know how that turned out...:secret:

Yep...the player we drafted is a bust and the ones we passed on are future hall of fame players.:sarcasm:

And they haven't even played a full season yet...:shades:

When bspn and their "experts/anal ists " become my source of information I'll give up football.

:coffee:
 
dbspi said:
Adrian Peterson >>>>> Reggie Bush
Payton Manning, Carson Palmer >>>>> Vince Young
Adrian Peterson = Eric Dickerson

Here I said it all.
Click to expand...

So Peterson is already better than Bush and equal to Dickerson. Ok, whatever you say...

I love Peterson and I think Bush has a lot to work on. However, Bush has already come into the NFL and made a difference. Period. End of Story. And to even compare much less equate Peterson with a game re-defining player like Dickerson is just out and out blasphemy.

I think Peterson could be a great back in the NFL. He is better suited for the NFL than Bush as an everydown back. However, Adrian has a lot of mileage on them tires. Stoops ran that dude into the ground ala Bum with Earl. He had the dude returning kicks for crying out loud. That is just stupid but is a testament to Peterson's game breaking ability.

I wouldn't have a problem with the Texans drafting Peterson but dont act like its a done deal. Peterson is more of a question mark than Bush was last year. Injuries. Wear and tear.

one thing you cant question is Adrian's heart. He runs hard and will do anything to help his team win. just dont jump to conclusions just yet.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
you can't always trust the opinions of the 'sheeple'
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Except when they happen to be backed up with facts like 2 of the worst pass protection seasons in the history of the NFL - including the absolute worst ever?

I'm not going to defend a 4 INT game, but the Carr haters keep forgetting some plainly obvious realities.
 
cuppacoffee said:
Great replies. Good to see some rational thinking.


Ryan Leaf was a great prospect his first year, we all know how that turned out...:secret:
Click to expand...

Pretty bad example....

Leaf threw 2 touchdown passes and 15 interceptions in the 10 games he played in his rookie season. You could tell pretty quick that he wasn't going to work out (on the field and off) -- just like you could tell pretty quick that VY and Leinart are going to work out. Give him a few more starts and I'm sure that Cutler will show that he belongs as well...
 
Sarg01 said:
Except when they happen to be backed up with facts like 2 of the worst pass protection seasons in the history of the NFL - including the absolute worst ever?

I'm not going to defend a 4 INT game, but the Carr haters keep forgetting some plainly obvious realities.
Click to expand...

he sacks himself. opposing players have said this and knowledgeable fans have seen this numerous times.

you can't just think sacks given up are all on the OL or how you judge the quality of an OL.

this isn't baseball where you can just open your daily newspaper and look at the stats and come up with a valid analysis.

but anyway, keep keep making excuses for David's horrible career and keep losing game after game for all I care....I gave up on some of you homers a long time ago

for the record, the OL did play poorly in New England. Second worst game of their season behind the Dallas game.
 
My problem with carr is that he should already know before he says "hut" that there gonna blitz. So why not set up a hot route a screen perhaps or drop back 2/3 steps and if you dont see nothing start running. No he rather sit there knowing there gonna blitz and with a bad OLine
 
jayjordan said:
My problem with carr is that he should already know before he says "hut" that there gonna blitz. So why not set up a hot route a screen perhaps or drop back 2/3 steps and if you dont see nothing start running. No he rather sit there knowing there gonna blitz and with a bad OLine
Click to expand...

The problem with that is THEY'RE NOT BLITZING. It just looks like they are because their 3 or 4 linemen run through our pass protection like a line of turn-styles.

They're actually running deep cover zones.
 
aj. said:
Pretty bad example....

Leaf threw 2 touchdown passes and 15 interceptions in the 10 games he played in his rookie season. You could tell pretty quick that he wasn't going to work out (on the field and off) -- just like you could tell pretty quick that VY and Leinart are going to work out. Give him a few more starts and I'm sure that Cutler will show that he belongs as well...
Click to expand...

I've come to respect your postings on the board more than most.

I am just not quite ready to put any of this years draft class into the hof yet as some are wont to do.

:coffee:
 
atxcoolguy said:
I love how these guys in the media can judge a draft before the season is even over. They'll be biting their tongues in a few years if Mario becomes what we expected him to be and we're winning.
Click to expand...

No they won't. They will be saying crap like, " I knew it all along" and, " I told you that was a good pick." That is the way these hacks work and noone ever calls them out on it. It is terrible. It reminds me of the 1992 Vice Presidential debate between Dan Quayle, Al Gore, and Admiral James Stockdale. In that debate Al Gore starts blathering on on one side of an issue and Dan Quayle interjects that Al Gore had taken an entirely different position in his book, which Al Gore denied. Dan Quayle then proceeded to read directly from Al Gore's book and prove his point. It was hilarious watching Al Gore squirm while Dan Quayle nailed him, but it was also sad how the reporting on that debate was buried in the news. To me, it was just one more piece of evidence of a left wing bias in the news industry. Had the roles been reversed it would have been blasted all over the news the way the whole potato mispelling thing was, and that is the way that this story of spineless sports-media hacks changing their stance on a draft pick and not admitting they were wrong would be treated as well, buried in the news.
 
dbspi said:
David Carr is damaged good right now, we may never know what he could have been if put in right environment but now he is not capable of carrying a team on his back by him self. When David Carr was drafted he was a franchise quarterback similar to Payton Manning and Carson Palmer but now he is broken down man, allot of things have gone wrong for him. If Mr. bob McNair want to salave Carr and bring him again next year then he needs to draft Adrian Peterson and build the offensive line this off season.

How quickly we forget about Oilers. I have been watching football in Houston 30 years now and I can say Oilers were just as bad as the Texans with Dante Pasterini at the helm and every one wanted him out of town (aka David Carr) but he was saved when the Oilers drafted Earl Cambell in 1978. Mr. Bob McNair can do the same by drafting Adrian Peterson this off season.

We will end up some place around 4 -6 in draft position and AD should be available to us. David Carr can be salvaged if he has Adrian Peterson behind him. Kubiak also need to fix the offensive line this off season. With the improvement of running game and better offensive line Carr career can be salvaged some what in Houston.

But don't ever expect Carr to become Payton Manning, Carson Palmer or Warren Moon clone.

Texans didn't make any mistake when they drafted Mario Williams, he was the right pick and a need pick as well. Vince Young may have many qualities but he is not Payton Manning, Carson Palmer or Warren Moon. Give couple of years before we judge 2006 class.

Adrian Peterson >>>>> Reggie Bush
Payton Manning, Carson Palmer >>>>> Vince Young
Adrian Peterson = Eric Dickerson

Here I said it all.
Click to expand...

Even if Adrian Peterson were the second coming of Eric Dickerson, that wouldn't be enough to turn this team around like the Oilers did with Earl Campbell. Partly because Petersen would need to be the second coming of Earl Campbell, and not Eric Dickerson, as you have suggested he is. Earl Campbell was by far the best RB I have ever seen. The things he did behind a similarly bad O-line for the Oilers were nothing short of amazing. A Campbell-like runner is the only single player I can think of that could have the kind of impact you are alluding to the Texans having with Adrian Peterson. Of course the summation of multiple talented players could have that kind of impact, but for it to come from a single player it would need to be from a player like Earl Campbell. Now, I don't want people to feel that I am somehow denigrating the accomplishments of Eric Dickerson or Adrian Peterson for that matter, but if we are to assume that Adrian Peterson is the second coming of Eric Dickerson then the Peterson would need to play under similar circumstances with the Texans that Dickerson had with the Rams if we are to expect similar results. Well, this is where the real breakdown in your analogy occurs. For you see, the Rams had one of the best O-lines in all of the NFL at that time, and yes I know you also indicated in your post the need for the Texans to improve their line as well, but it isn't very plausible to suggest that one of the worst O-lines in NFL history could become one of the best in the league next year in one off-season. In conclusion, it will take time for the Texans to fix their O-line as well as the plethora of other problems this team has, and the addition of any RB less than the spectacular Earl Campbell isn't going to change that.
 
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