Jadmakaveli
Veteran
Wait "people" arguing Deshaun has a weak arm? I thought we left that in 2016....
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Right?Wait "people" arguing Deshaun has a weak arm? I thought we left that in 2016....
Would it not be easier to read and take a post for what it says?
If someone says the sky is blue. That's what they posted. They didn't post the sky is green or want you to assume it is.
Same here. If someone says Watson is/isn't wearing #4 that is what they said. They didn't say anything about his ability, lack of ability, IQ or anything else. They said he wears #4.
The number of people/posters who have to argue, not debate like proper adults also is nearly ALWAYS the ones who have to name call, disagree with no facts and things like this.
I can safely say Watson has a weak arm according to the numbers he posted at the combine. You can Google it, but you can not argue with that. It is a fact. Like it or not. Could it be stronger now, sure. I assume that he has gotten some more strength. However, it still will not change the fact that at the combine using radar and other technology the ball he throws did not have a high speed on it due to arm strength (lack of).
Proof that can not be argued about. Compared to the other QBs that were invited to the combine. He is the tied for the 3rd lowest. And yes 1mph/number is a very big difference.
Deshaun Watson Clemson 45 (Left) 45 (Right)
Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2023
The most respected source for NFL Draft info among NFL Fans, Media, and Scouts, plus accurate, up to date NFL Depth Charts, Practice Squads and Rosters.www.ourlads.com
I'm sure you are aware but just to clarify I don't think the Texans or any other NFL team do any drug testing. I think that's done by independent NFL personnel. I am sure that's what you meant.Thats hindsight and if we are going to use hindsight then no team ever has really gotten it right. Would I have liked them to trade Fuller even at the time, yes because we need the picks and cap space but isn't the thing we hammered Cal for is letting OB trade Hopkins for nothing? So while I would have traded at the same time if say GB was just offering a 6th then yeah I would have kept him and taken my chances with the comp pick. I'm not going to beat up the Texans for not knowing Fuller was taking banned meds and I'm not going to beat up Watson in particular for it. Far as i know Texans are limited by the CBA in how much and often they can drug test, correct me if I'm wrong, so they like every other team has to roll the dice.
Wouldn't you like to have DK Metcalf on roster rather than Lonnie Johnson?I wouldn't. I would bring Stills back at a great price, develop Keke and accent Akins. With the college game and all the passing, you can get wrs. I've been trying to replace Fuller with Stills, Metcalf, and McLaurin for the past couple of years. Not only that, there are always discount dudes in free agency.
Yeah!! Uh, so why are there no reports of all these coaches and potential GMs causing traffic jams on Kirby?
I'm sure you are aware but just to clarify I don't think the Texans or any other NFL team do any drug testing. I think that's done by independent NFL personnel. I am sure that's what you meant.
Not that I could make any sense of that post, but if someone says the sky is blue, there aren't any problems. It's when someone says the sky is green, posing it as fact, goes on ad nauseam about it giving no actual facts to his claim, and ignores the facts that are then provided by countless others. That's where the problem lies.
Then he laughs in your face with the bullshit lie that he doesn't know how to copy & paste links. For the amount of his life he spends on this message board for a decade or more, if you can't do that simplest of things, you can't be much smarter than a bag of sand. And if that's the case, the takes he floods this board with are supposed to mean something?
That, my friends, is a troll. And 75% of this forum is everyone who responds to just that one person's bullshit. It's the damnedest thing I've ever seen. Hell, I've got him on ignore and I'm still responding to this bullshit. But like I said, it's 75% of the content on here, so what can you do if you want to participate in the forum?
Dissenting opinions and the discussing it brings...nothing wrong with that. Rehashing the same ol bullshit by the same ol poster, on and on and on and on and on and on and on, that's not discussion. That's playing the game of a troll.
We aren't worthy of being mentioned but yet; we're, Always On Your Mind.They know who they are. I don't even feel they deserve to be mentioned.
I'm one of those, but alas, have no soul, for I was born a ginger.Issue is you're talking as there are a lot of different souls... back it up
How dictatorial of you to try to suppress the opinions of the minority.Not that I could make any sense of that post, but if someone says the sky is blue, there aren't any problems. It's when someone says the sky is green, posing it as fact, goes on ad nauseam about it giving no actual facts to his claim, and ignores the facts that are then provided by countless others. That's where the problem lies.
Then he laughs in your face with the bullshit lie that he doesn't know how to copy & paste links. For the amount of his life he spends on this message board for a decade or more, if you can't do that simplest of things, you can't be much smarter than a bag of sand. And if that's the case, the takes he floods this board with are supposed to mean something?
That, my friends, is a troll. And 75% of this forum is everyone who responds to just that one person's bullshit. It's the damnedest thing I've ever seen. Hell, I've got him on ignore and I'm still responding to this bullshit. But like I said, it's 75% of the content on here, so what can you do if you want to participate in the forum?
Dissenting opinions and the discussing it brings...nothing wrong with that. Rehashing the same ol bullshit by the same ol poster, on and on and on and on and on and on and on, that's not discussion. That's playing the game of a troll.
Hell Yes.Wouldn't you like to have DK Metcalf on roster rather than Lonnie Johnson?
It’s like you jumped into the middle of a debate & didn’t read either argument.
In Maverick’s argument he is referring to idiots saying, “Now ya’ll saying Watson has a weak arm.”
When one poster said Watson has a weak arm & 13 posters said otherwise.
Maverick thinks maybe the idiot misunderstood his post, if he thinks more than one (ya’ll) believes Watson has a weak arm.
You said Texans are limited by CBA in how often they can drug test. They don't test and are not limited. No big deal.Isn’t that what I said? That they are limited and bound by agreements on what drug testing they can do.
You said Texans are limited by CBA in how often they can drug test. They don't test and are not limited. No big deal.
You are a ginger unmentionable! I love this message board! And you quote Willie Nelson, ever thought about going into politics? If so, you have to get a picture of yourself shopping in Walmart.We aren't worthy of being mentioned but yet; we're, Always On Your Mind.
Delicious.
I'm one of those, but alas, have no soul, for I was born a ginger.
How dictatorial of you to try to suppress the opinions of the minority.
Hell Yes.
You and me both.Have to be honest, you scare me a little sometimes.
Ahhh the weak arm debate, now that brings back memories lol i think i remember reading somewhere that deshaun was focusing on accuracy/touch not power during passing drills hence the low number. And if you watch his games, even his rookie year, he's got plenty of arm strengthI can safely say Watson has a weak arm according to the numbers he posted at the combine. You can Google it, but you can not argue with that. It is a fact. Like it or not. Could it be stronger now, sure. I assume that he has gotten some more strength. However, it still will not change the fact that at the combine using radar and other technology the ball he throws did not have a high speed on it due to arm strength (lack of).
Proof that can not be argued about. Compared to the other QBs that were invited to the combine. He is the tied for the 3rd lowest. And yes 1mph/number is a very big difference.
Deshaun Watson Clemson 45 (Left) 45 (Right)
Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2023
The most respected source for NFL Draft info among NFL Fans, Media, and Scouts, plus accurate, up to date NFL Depth Charts, Practice Squads and Rosters.www.ourlads.com
I'm putting your argument into his example. No one was arguing about Watson's freak'n arm until he used that example.No seriously I don’t remember saying anything about a weak arm. I remember saying Mahomes has a stronger arm and saying I have concerns about Watson’s accuracy, both of which I stand by, but did I ever say he has a weak arm?
No seriously I don’t remember saying anything about a weak arm. I remember saying Mahomes has a stronger arm and saying I have concerns about Watson’s accuracy, both of which I stand by, but did I ever say he has a weak arm?
You and me both.
I had to quit drinking when I quit smoking 4 years ago or so..... so I gotta deal with the voices in my head..... sober
No wonder dude agrees with almost everything one particular member says. And it’s amazing when those that speak positive of Watson play y’all quickly refutes it and then start throwing the accuracy thingy around, he’s not a leader, he’s not a Super Bowl quality quarterback, and the arm strength. Why don’t you ever charge those guys up when they come after those members who highlights the positive aspects of his game. You don’t think those members blow things out of proportion either?
And let’s not forget a team not winning the Super Bowl if the quarterback eats up a certain percentage of the cap.
I gave up drinking (regularly) 7 years ago (October 2013) and haven't had a drink at all since @steelbtexan 's last Superbowl party ... Its dangerous when you don't have an off switch.
I quit smoking (again) October 1 of this year .... Still have a craving every now and again but I definitely feel better ...
Pretty sure you just proved @Corrosion point. Plenty of times someone has spoken positively of Watson but that gets forgotten the moment that person also criticizes him, I have said I think Watson can be a great QB he just needs a scheme that fits him better, Corrosion has said that he could design an insane scheme for a QB with Watson's talents, @steelbtexan has listed multiple times what he feels Watson's strengths are when asked directly.
You, and yes I mean you @Texansballer74 because I'm tired of these dance around names game, seem to take everything someone says to the extreme. They say Watson has accuracy issues or isn't as accurate as another QB you act as though they said he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, they say he doesn't have the strongest arm, something no one has really brought up for years, you act like they said he has a wet noodle for an arm, they say he isn't a leader, which I agree doesn't make sense, and rather than taking it as one person's opinion you act like its the general feeling of everyone that has ever said anything. Finally the fact that no team has won a Superbowl when a QB is 15% or more of the cap you act like that is an attack on Watson when it's simply a fact of the NFL. Doesn't matter if the QB is Rodgers, Wilson, Big Ben or any other QB you care to name the fact is it has never been done but again you act like its an attack on Watson.
Its like you think we all sit around and discuss how we are going to run Watson down today or hell even talk to each other about any of these outside of these posts. I won't speak for the others but I can count the number of PM conversations I have had on one hand and have fingers left over and only one of them was about Watson and it wasn't about his on field play but what his role on the committee was. So my question to you is why is this so personal for you and why do you feel you have to defend him with every post and answer everything that is said? Its why people have said that Steel is in your head because he could say Watson has bad taste is clothes and you would make 10 posts defending his taste in clothes.
Why are you even expounding on this . Dude nobody is even talking about you. This is your freaking problem right here. I’m not the only one who feels this way. Speedy, Earl , Optimistic, Santo and several other members complains about the negativity from those select few as well. But of course your weak self only wants to charge me up. Nobody was fn with you when you disagreed constantly with Steel. And dude stop the fabrication crap. That dude doesn’t really give Watson any props. There’s alway a freaking but behind it. Like I said it’s crazy when we give the man his creds y’all are so quick to diss it. But when people criticize y’all quickly jump on board.
I’ve told you once before what you can do. If you don’t like my comments then bypass them or better yet hit the ignore button. You and I don’t ever have to discuss football around these parts. Just that simple
Better yet, the subject of the thread.You guys stop talking about each other and get back on the subject of football ....
You guys stop talking about each other and get back on the subject of football ....
Back on topic : This offense will struggle without Fuller. It always does that’s why they want him back next season
What do you think is a fair number for him ?
Where do you draw the line and say "Thats too much"??
You give the man what the market thinks he’s worth. I don’t set those numbers the league does.
You don't have unlimited funds and can't pay everyone market value - Teams have to hope that some of their lower salary guys outperform their pay grade.
If the market will pay him "transition tag" money which is $15.68m .... I feel like that's just too much when they are already up against the cap and will have to cut that amount of salary TWICE to fill out the roster and resign WFV
Being over the cap by $12,499,748 They are going to have to shed between $25-30m just to fill out the 17 roster spots - That means cutting players and replacing them with guys on lesser deals.
Then you've got the $X value for WFV , again having to cut players to create that cap space.
You can only cut so much from around the margins before you cut the quick.
How many other players are you willing to give up to keep WFV ?
Moving Watt gives you about $5m in usable space , you got 12-17m plus WFV's $X to go .... who you cutting ?
You give the man what the market thinks he’s worth. I don’t set those numbers the league does.
NFL Draft 2020 - Latest Draft News and Predictions
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/www.cbssports.com
Here’s the wide receivers coming out in this year’s draft. Who you think will be there that has the potential to take Fuller’s place?
I'd like in on that. I'll pick you up @steelbtexanYou do make some good shine though.
Really looking forward to doing this again after they get the Covid under control.
I would think the market for a WR that gets hurt every yr and gets caught using PED's in a contract yr in an effort to stay healthy and get paid would be very depressed. No more than 4-5 mil per yr on a 2 yr deal with 5 or 6 mil guaranteed. Personally I would let WFV walk and re-up Cooks at say 8 mil per yr for 3 yrs with 12 mil up front. (He can give you the same things WFV gives you) and sign a cheap bigger bodied WR to replace WFV. If Coulter shows he can play in the remaining games then this will also help answer these issues.
I hate that 1. They didn't trade WFV 2. He got popped. But since this is a lost season anyways it's time to get a look at guys like Coulter and some of the young guys on defense. Speaking of young guys playing is Heck going to play this yr or is this going to be his redshirt yr?
Also if Bienemy becomes the next Texans HC I would pay great $$$$ to see Andy Heck come with Bienemy. If Fangio gets fired then Munchak would be at the top of my list as the next OL coach and I would pay him top dollar. Have y'all seen the improvement in Denver's OL this yr? I bet guys like Howard/Scharping could really improve under his watch. N.Martin/Fulton would probably be gone if not next yr then in 2 yrs.
I understand all of that and you do not need to put anything in bold letters either. It’s like you have some type of attitude and for what?
Get rid of B Mac, Fulton, Kelemete, David Johnson, Eric Murray and possibly Nick Martin.
----------- Cap Hit ----- Dead Money ----- Savings
BMac $7.75m $1.5m $6.25m
Fulton $3m $750k $2.25m
Kelemete $5.75m $250k $5.5m
David J. $9m $2.1m $6.9m
Murray $6.75 $6.5 $250K
Martin $8.75m $2.5m $6.25m
(I wouldn't cut Fulton , he's actually been the best interior lineman on the team and is a bargain at that price , you won't replace him for less)
You just freed up $27.4m and cut 6 players and now have 23 open roster spots to fill. $12.5m of that $27.4 was "over the cap" so you have an effective cap of $14.9m.
You need a starting C , LG , RB , WR and ILB along with 18 other roster spots to fill and have that $14.9m to work with ....
If you cut or traded Watt and didn't pay any of his salary that figure is $32.4m and add a DE to your list of needs with 18 more roster spot to fill.
Must have C , LG , RB , ILB , DE , WR + 18.
You really willing to pay WFV $15-17m ?
You do make some good shine though.
Really looking forward to doing this again after they get the Covid under control.
I'd like in on that. I'll pick you up @steelbtexan
Ahhh the weak arm debate, now that brings back memories lol i think i remember reading somewhere that deshaun was focusing on accuracy/touch not power during passing drills hence the low number. And if you watch his games, even his rookie year, he's got plenty of arm strength
I see Fuller as a 2 yr - 8M dollar player who will need to hit performance thresholds if he wants more money out of the next 2 seasons. He definitely has had his moments but they just don't overshadow his injuries and now his foolish decision to use PED's in a contract season. I don't see teams knocking themselves out to sign Fuller in the off-season b/c of his history. Fuller is probably going to to find out that the market will be extending him low money contracts with performance bonuses as the carrot.....and those will definitely be on short term offers with easy outs financially for the team.
Fuller would be better served to take a prove-it contract from the Texans versus going to a new team and offense. If Fuller can right the ship in 2021-22.....he's still young enough to cash in on his talent.
----------- Cap Hit ----- Dead Money ----- Savings
BMac $7.75m $1.5m $6.25m
Fulton $3m $750k $2.25m
Kelemete $5.75m $250k $5.5m
David J. $9m $2.1m $6.9m
Murray $6.75 $6.5 $250K
Martin $8.75m $2.5m $6.25m
(I wouldn't cut Fulton , he's actually been the best interior lineman on the team and is a bargain at that price , you won't replace him for less)
You just freed up $27.4m and cut 6 players and now have 23 open roster spots to fill. $12.5m of that $27.4 was "over the cap" so you have an effective cap of $14.9m.
You need a starting C , LG , RB , WR and ILB along with 18 other roster spots to fill and have that $14.9m to work with ....
If you cut or traded Watt and didn't pay any of his salary that figure is $32.4m and add a DE to your list of needs with 18 more roster spot to fill.
Must have C , LG , RB , ILB , DE , WR + 18.
You really willing to pay WFV $15-17m ?
You and me both.
I had to quit drinking when I quit smoking 4 years ago or so..... so I gotta deal with the voices in my head..... sober
Fuller imo is pretty close to a must keep at this point. I would Restructure 1/2 those guys on your list. If they won't do it try to get what you can in a trade for them. If all else fails, then yeah, clip them. its as simple as that.
I agree. If we keep Will for more than $5M/yr, I'll be disappointed.I would think the market for a WR that gets hurt every yr and gets caught using PED's in a contract yr in an effort to stay healthy and get paid would be very depressed. No more than 4-5 mil per yr on a 2 yr deal with 5 or 6 mil guaranteed.
I like the idea of having both. A big body receiver would be nice, but I like two speedsters on the outside.Personally I would let WFV walk and re-up Cooks at say 8 mil per yr for 3 yrs with 12 mil up front.