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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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Corrosion said:
Really those things we have seen in the plays we have dissected are the norm , not a rarity and they are a direct issue with Watson's style of QB or lack of vision , one the other or a combination of the two.
I've noticed them going back to year one but at that time he was making enough big plays that they overcame these issues , as defenses have adjusted (and the talent reduced) , those big plays have dried up.
This is what I expected when we were discussing him pre draft when I stated "I would not draft Watson."
At Clemson he was only asked to make one or two reads on one half of the field and usually had the best athletes on the on his side ... Those same things are what holds him back today and in the NFL the talent is fairly equal , windows shorter and smaller , defenses much more complex.

Unless they get a coaching staff in here that can simplify the reads and reduce the options for him while building the offense around his athleticism , what I think we get for the next 2-3 years is more of the same , a highlight reel play here and there but inconsistency for the most part.

Not a popular opinion .... but how I see it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely NOT TRUE.

First three plays here are full-field reads.

I had noted during the draft that Watson often doesn't have to go past his first two reads, but that does not mean that he can't or didn't read the whole field competently.

Also there are guys that played in the WCO in college that turn out to be greatly successful in the pros.
Pretty much all college QBs don't make full-field reads all that often.
But the better ones can recognize defenses presnap.

Watson played against top notch defenses in the country so he had seen a fair deal of what to be expected in the pros.
 
76Texan said:
Absolutely NOT TRUE.

First three plays here are full-field reads.

I had noted during the draft that Watson often doesn't have to go past his first two reads, but that does not mean that he can't or didn't read the whole field competently.

Also there are guys that played in the WCO in college that turn out to be greatly successful in the pros.
Pretty much all college QBs don't make full-field reads all that often.
But the better ones can recognize defenses presnap.

Watson played against top notch defenses in the country so he had seen a fair deal of what to be expected in the pros.
Click to expand...
Smdh, find an exception to the rule.

Truth is DW4 hasn't learned a thing in 4 years and this isn't likely to change. This ain't college anymore to all of those but he was great at Clemson fanboys.
 
Everyone keeps referring to "system" in this thread.

Can someone tell me *what* his system is?

No. Seriously.

7 years in, I don't know. I consider myself to know a fair amount of football. I've watched it for 25 years or so now. I don't know Xs an Os like, say, baseball, but I'd like to think I know a lot.



Are we supposed to be smash mouth?
Are we supposed to be heavy/vertical passing?
Are we supposed to be versatile, creative, motion-oriented?
Are we supposed to be WCO/PA/rollouts?
Are we supposed to be ball hawks?
Are we supposed to be bend but don't break?
Are we supposed to be relentless blitzers?


Seriously have no idea.

Do we have any stated mission statement?

I'm not joking in the slightest.
 
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TheMatrix31 said:
Everyone keeps referring to "system" in this thread.

Can someone tell me *what* his system is?

No. Seriously.

7 years in, I don't know. I consider myself to know a fair amount of football. I've watched it for 25 years or so now. I don't know Xs an Os like, say, baseball, but I'd like to think I know a lot.



Are we supposed to be smash mouth?
Are we supposed to be heavy/vertical passing?
Are we supposed to be versatile, creative, motion-oriented?
Are we supposed to be WCO/PA/rollouts?
Are we supposed to be ball hawks?
Are we supposed to be bend but don't break?
Are we supposed to be relentless blitzers?


Seriously have no idea.

Do we have any stated mission statement?

I'm not joking in the slightest.
Click to expand...

They have an identity,

They're the Houston Watson's according to some around these parts.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Everyone keeps referring to "system" in this thread.

Can someone tell me *what* his system is?

No. Seriously.

7 years in, I don't know. I consider myself to know a fair amount of football. I've watched it for 25 years or so now. I don't know Xs an Os like, say, baseball, but I'd like to think I know a lot.



Are we supposed to be smash mouth?
Are we supposed to be heavy/vertical passing?
Are we supposed to be versatile, creative, motion-oriented?
Are we supposed to be WCO/PA/rollouts?
Are we supposed to be ball hawks?
Are we supposed to be bend but don't break?
Are we supposed to be relentless blitzers?


Seriously have no idea.

Do we have any stated mission statement?

I'm not joking in the slightest.
Click to expand...


It’s a brand new dance called the Bill O’Brien.
 
76Texan said:
Absolutely NOT TRUE.

First three plays here are full-field reads.

I had noted during the draft that Watson often doesn't have to go past his first two reads, but that does not mean that he can't or didn't read the whole field competently.

Also there are guys that played in the WCO in college that turn out to be greatly successful in the pros.
Pretty much all college QBs don't make full-field reads all that often.
But the better ones can recognize defenses presnap.

Watson played against top notch defenses in the country so he had seen a fair deal of what to be expected in the pros.
Click to expand...


Talk to me in a couple years when the tide has shifted ....
 
Well well well, that didn't last long...
https://www.nfl.com/news/texans-change-how-they-call-plays-with-bill-o-brien-more-involved

From the article:
With an 0-3 start, and a talented offense near the bottom of the league, the Houston Texans are making some changes.

Head coach Bill O'Brien will be far more involved in game-planning and play-calling, sources say, after attempting to take a step back from both to begin the season. While offensive coordinator Tim Kelly will still physically relay the plays in to quarterback Deshaun Watson, O'Brien will take a heavy hand in which plays are called, just like he was intimately involved with the game plan.
Click to expand...
 
Corrosion said:
Unless they get a coaching staff in here that can simplify the reads and reduce the options for him while building the offense around his athleticism
Click to expand...
I don’t think he needs an offense built around his athleticism. He just needs to be allowed to use it, which I think O’Brien is allowing.

To me it looks like Watson is choosing not to.

So to me, whether BO’b is calling good plays or not doesn’t matter. If Watson isn’t going to keep the ball when his RPO read says keep the ball, it doesn’t matter. If he’s not going to take the quick slant when the blitz says take the slant, it doesn’t matter.

At the same time, if Nick Martin continues to help Scharping even though Fulton struggles... it doesn’t matter.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don’t think he needs an offense built around his athleticism. He just needs to be allowed to use it, which I think O’Brien is allowing.

To me it looks like Watson is choosing not to.

So to me, whether BO’b is calling good plays or not doesn’t matter. If Watson isn’t going to keep the ball when his RPO read says keep the ball, it doesn’t matter. If he’s not going to take the quick slant when the blitz says take the slant, it doesn’t matter.

At the same time, if Nick Martin continues to help Scharping even though Fulton struggles... it doesn’t matter.
Click to expand...


I've made similar statements to the bold about the RPO .... I don't know who to blame for those times Watson should keep the ball and doesn't - it could be Watson or it could be OB telling him not to take those hits.

Still , its maddening to watch that RB run into a disadvantage .... If they aren't going to take advantage of the concept , they'd be better off eliminating it from the playbook and running something else - like a run from a single back set (under center) .... maybe help set up those play action plays that are always a pass from that set.

There's a whole lot to complain about with this team .... on both sides of the ball from players to coaches , schemes , decisions .... everything.

I do expect them to win today , mainly because the Vikings defense is missing both starting corners - if Watson and Co can't take advantage of that ....
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Everyone keeps referring to "system" in this thread.

Can someone tell me *what* his system is?

No. Seriously.

7 years in, I don't know. I consider myself to know a fair amount of football. I've watched it for 25 years or so now. I don't know Xs an Os like, say, baseball, but I'd like to think I know a lot.



Are we supposed to be smash mouth?
Are we supposed to be heavy/vertical passing?
Are we supposed to be versatile, creative, motion-oriented?
Are we supposed to be WCO/PA/rollouts?
Are we supposed to be ball hawks?
Are we supposed to be bend but don't break?
Are we supposed to be relentless blitzers?


Seriously have no idea.

Do we have any stated mission statement?

I'm not joking in the slightest.
Click to expand...


Your examples are more about identity than system. Think about the Steelers (really, even the Patriots) they’ve used basically the same “system” forever. But their identity has changed through the different coordinators.

Because they do it “right” they are able to establish an identity based on their personnel.
 
Corrosion said:
I do expect them to win today , mainly because the Vikings defense is missing both starting corners - if Watson and Co can't take advantage of that ....
Click to expand...
I’m trying to be positive. I’m rooting for the win, but the same can be said about our defense. Minnesota is looking for a get well game too. & their offense (which is closer to last year’s than our defense is to last year’s) is better than our defense.

First one to 50 wins & they’re more likely to score 50 than we are.
 
Corrosion said:
I've made similar statements to the bold about the RPO .... I don't know who to blame for those times Watson should keep the ball and doesn't - it could be Watson or it could be OB telling him not to take those hits.

Still , its maddening to watch that RB run into a disadvantage .... If they aren't going to take advantage of the concept , they'd be better off eliminating it from the playbook and running something else - like a run from a single back set (under center) .... maybe help set up those play action plays that are always a pass from that set.

There's a whole lot to complain about with this team .... on both sides of the ball from players to coaches , schemes , decisions .... everything.

I do expect them to win today , mainly because the Vikings defense is missing both starting corners - if Watson and Co can't take advantage of that ....
Click to expand...

I agree as well.

In that QB show w/ Watson, Kurt Warner, and Brian Baldinger... Watson mentioned sometimes they give an RPO look, but it's a handoff to the RB no matter what.

I want to see Watson keep the ball more often as well, even if it's just for 4 yards and slide. You need that threat to open up the run game for the RB.
 
thunderkyss said:
Your examples are more about identity than system. Think about the Steelers (really, even the Patriots) they’ve used basically the same “system” forever. But their identity has changed through the different coordinators.

Because they do it “right” they are able to establish an identity based on their personnel.
Click to expand...

Sure. But identity usually comes from system and that's mostly a two way street. Mostly related.
 
dream_team said:
I agree as well.

In that QB show w/ Watson, Kurt Warner, and Brian Baldinger... Watson mentioned sometimes they give an RPO look, but it's a handoff to the RB no matter what.

I want to see Watson keep the ball more often as well, even if it's just for 4 yards and slide. You need that threat to open up the run game for the RB.
Click to expand...
I'm with @Corrosion on this point. Just rip the RPO out of the playbook. Hell, get a FB in there. You're going to run it anyway.
 
It wasn’t so much going empty..it was the defense teams were playing...notice our offense looked good at the ends of halves and games...that’s b/c teams we’re/are largely playing prevent...
 
pirbroke said:
I’ve always been a bit more patient than most people. I’m probably the last person but I’m now in the fire Bill crowd. Maybe even trade everyone away and completely start over.


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Click to expand...
I agree wholeheartedly with firing BoB. But trade who for what? The only players worth trading would be traded away with the other team consuming a bad contract, which the Texans would have to eat part, if not most of. O'Brien has made trades nearly impossible.
 
banned1976 said:
I agree wholeheartedly with firing BoB. But trade who for what? The only players worth trading would be traded away with the other team consuming a bad contract, which the Texans would have to eat part, if not most of. O'Brien has made trades nearly impossible.
Click to expand...

For future draft picks, for the next coach. I mean everyone, Watt, Watson included.


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pirbroke said:
For future draft picks, for the next coach. I mean everyone, Watt, Watson included.


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Click to expand...

And to add to my quote, I wouldn’t mind trading all draft picks for next two or 3 years for future draft picks. Just tank your but off and sign players that have potential to trade for injured playoff teams midseason.


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Carr Bombed said:
You don't trade Watson.. you rebuild around him and give him a offensive mind that supports him to work with..

QBs aren't easy to find.. The move should've been made two years ago.. if it was, we'd still have the assets to be right on track.
Click to expand...

Bill really hurt the team for new coach to rebuild around Watson, no high draft picks. I just think it would be a long process that Watson wouldn’t want to go through. Send him to a contender


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pirbroke said:
Bill really hurt the team for new coach to rebuild around Watson, no high draft picks. I just think it would be a long process that Watson wouldn’t want to go through. Send him to a contender


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Click to expand...

Deshaun Watson still has like 12 years left in his career.. There's PLENTY of time for someone to come in here and right the ship.. Trade Watt to a contender.. He deserves it..
 
BO’b: We’d have won that game if you’d have let me sign Earl Thomas

McNair: Because you truly believe that is exactly why we’re letting you go.
 
banned1976 said:
However you want to slice it, whether you look at it from the angle of the quarterback not doing his job well or not, O’Brien and Easterby haven’t made one single move that has made this team better positioned to win a super bowl in the near future. As you said, and I completely agree with you Watson is a bad fit for this offense and he was just signed for a mega deal with a no trade clause (I believe that’s the case). And being that this thread is about O’Brien, that’s the angle I’m going with.

I wrote going back to last year, I wasn’t opposed to the Texans trading Watson if the return was too good to pass up. Because this theory about Watson and O’Brien not being good for each other isn’t new. What is new is the franchise doesn’t have a true reliable #1receiver for the quarterback to look to when he gets into trouble.

I believe the one lone decent move this Texans front office made was Roby. The rest of the moves look like they were extremely lopsided against the team. I could use just 2 players to illustrate this - David Johnson and Mercilus. The Texans have a tremendous amount of cap space tied up in these two players and both of them, on most teams they’re bench players.

There’s absolutely no justification for O’Brien keeping his jobs. He’s a terrible negotiator and evaluator of talent. And I guess so is Jack Easterby. In addition to O’Brien being a horrible GM, he’s an equally bad HC. Only fools would continue to employ him to “run” any franchise.
Click to expand...

Fair
 
thunderkyss said:
BO’b: We’d have won that game if you’d have let me sign Earl Thomas

Anyone but McNair: Because you truly believe that is exactly why we’re letting you go.
Click to expand...

McNair: Since you truly believe that, and you don't quite have the personnel that you need. We are going to give you another contract extension!
 
Lucky said:
Kelly was awful. He had zero credentials for the job. That's on O'Brien, though.
Click to expand...

......that was O'Brien!!!! Kelly is the fall guy. And to pull this shite before the Vikings game, what a turd. If OB is going to do this....wish he had the balls to it against the Ravens or Steelers. Fire this moron.
 
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