Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
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Dump O'Brien. The offense is on him.
- Thread starter TripleTap
- Start date
Texansballer74
The Marine
They didn't think they were good enough plain and simple. They believed at that time in the QB'S they had on the roster. Do please remember the Owner Mr. McNair saying they didn't need an elite QB. So they brought in Fitzpatrick, then Hoyer and Mallett who had experience in the system. They were really hoping a young Mallett would be thier guy.
Bridgewater was not good as advertised.
Carr finally broke out last season. Took three years.
Jimmy doesn't have enough on his resume to say if he's competent or good.
And any damn body could look good behind the Cowboys oline and elite running game.
And please stop the nonsense. We don't know how these players would've fared if we drafted them.
Oh let's not act like we passed on Jimmy G. The Patriots wiggled their way in front of us to snatch that kid up. The Vikings did the same exact thing.
I dont know, as I didn't say that.
And that thing with Derek is guesswork. Maybe he thrives here under the pressure. Maybe he's embraced further than he could ever be in Oakland because of the history.
And I agree about luck, absolutely. But that can only go so far accompanying benefit of the doubt when the succession of bad results is what it is. The question was simply whether or not there were good prospects to be had all along versus the tire fire we kept going with. And the answer to that question, no matter the excuse gymnastics, never isn't yes.
Further excuse gymnastics to a simple question and answer.
No reasonable football fan thought we were winning consistently with Hoyer or Fitz, and Mallett was a pipedream relief at best.
Bridgewater was coming along and I'd take his play before getting injured to be enough to help guide us to a conference title game.
Carr was solid from jump and on a clear trajectory to success.
Jimmy doesn't need much more on his resume to look like a more appealing option than the riff raff we've had. That beyond the fact that numbers of scouts/observers had glowingly praised his potential, which has been nothing but reinforced each time he's seen the field.
Bottom line, those guys were available, with many in this community alone making strong arguments for each, and we went with a continuous and obvious tire fire. Backflips and dismounts to justify it all day though..
Texansballer74
The Marine
They didn't think they were good enough plain and simple. They believed at that time in the QB'S they had on the roster. Do please remember the Owner Mr. McNair saying they didn't need an elite QB. So they brought in Fitzpatrick, then Hoyer and Mallett who had experience in the system. They were really hoping a young Mallett would be thier guy.
Bridgewater was not good as advertised.
Carr finally broke out last season. Took three years.
Jimmy doesn't have enough on his resume to say if he's competent or good.
And any damn body could look good behind the Cowboys oline and elite running game.
And please stop the nonsense. We don't know how these players would've fared if we drafted them.
Oh let's not act like we passed on Jimmy G. The Patriots wiggled their way in front of us to snatch that kid up. The Vikings did the same exact thing.
No Jimmy does not. Its the same damn case we had with Mallet. Another prospect that might pan out. Bridgewater has not done anything worth writing home to momma about. Nobody can put a strong argument on the unknown. You are reaching big time there bud. Again nobody knows if either of tjose players would've fit O'Brien scheme.
What am I reaching at?
I agree, it did not make sense to bring Fitzpatrick in on a contract richer than the one the Titans just released him from.
It did not make sense to release him from said contract, then bringing Hoyer in on an even richer contract. While I do agree the most likely scenario is O'Brien picked these guys off a list Smith provided... it was Smith's dumn a55 that negotiated the monies.
I also believe Smith gave O'Brien a list of QBs in the 2014 draft & O'Brien rated Tom Savage as highly as he rated Derek Carr & Jimmy Garoppolo. But it was Smith who assumed he could get one of them in the third round or later, which he did.
I could see him thinking Derek Carr & Jimmy Garoppolo would be There at the top of the third. I can see him being disappointed neither were there. It's like playing blackjack, knowing a face card is due, but when the guy ahead of you gets it, you still have to decide if you want to take a hit, or stay your hand when your turn comes around.
I think there's a little more to it than that... in my mind, if you think the guys is going to be an elite guy... a true franchise QB, not the Matt Stafford or Phillip Rivers "franchise" then no price is too high, & no BS family/team history is an obstacle.
Did they think Carr could be good? Probably. But they didn't think he would win Super Bowls... or they would have took him in the first. Tom Savage may be as good as Derek Carr one day, but he'll never get the opportunity to prove it, being taken in the fourth round and all.
Regardless the make up of the team, or how well Savage plays, he will not be allowed to start 10 games after losing his first 9. Just not going to happen.
I remember O' Brien saying there were some QBs that are pretty close in skill set/potential and the Texans went on to draft Savage.
I haven't seen anything to make me believe anyone but Tom Brady will fit O'Briens "scheme"
We've yet to see O'Brien have a "scheme"
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Nope.
Just saying OBrien is the coach, godfather is the GM. I maintain that OBrien does not beat the bushes looking for prospects. That is the scouts / gm job.
You want to call that an agenda fine, but it's just the way it is. OBrien is handed a list to choose from.
Don't know why your agenda says he isn't. But believe what you wish and I will do the same.
Nope.
Just saying OBrien is the coach, godfather is the GM. I maintain that OBrien does not beat the bushes looking for prospects. That is the scouts / gm job.
You want to call that an agenda fine, but it's just the way it is. OBrien is handed a list to choose from.
Don't know why your agenda says he isn't. But believe what you wish and I will do the same.
O'Brien just choosing from a list he is given doesn't really make him look good
Texansballer74
The Marine
He's still got to do his due diligence. That's the way it's done. While he's studying his NFL opponents, evaluating his team, coaching his team, & scheming for game day, scouts are studying & grading players not on his team.
Then in the offseason, they bring him up to speed & he becomes part of the selection process.
I'm sure, if he comes across a prospect that didn't make the list (Chicken&Shrimp) he asks the scouts to work up a little something/something which then becomes part of the process.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Nope.
Just saying OBrien is the coach, godfather is the GM. I maintain that OBrien does not beat the bushes looking for prospects. That is the scouts / gm job.
You want to call that an agenda fine, but it's just the way it is. OBrien is handed a list to choose from.
Don't know why your agenda says he isn't. But believe what you wish and I will do the same.
BWHAHAHA ok Yeah i have an agenda of speaking the truth. I go off of whats being said by both O'Brien and Smith. O'Brien also gives Rick and Company a list as well of players he believes would fit his scheme. they compare list and go from there.
Not what BOB said in his season ending PC.
You calling BOB a Liar?
What's up with the BWHAHAHA thingy? You use it often. You have a thingy (See I use the same words again and again too) for BBW's?
Delete
All he said was that he wasn't into the contracts. Not that he doesn't tell Rick who to try to get and keep.
Also just makes it obvious that he is clueless about the salary cap, which is a big deal these days.
Texansballer74
The Marine
So I can't laugh and enjoy myself. And you might want to revisit several of Bill O'Brien presser concerning the discussion at hand.
Point me to the last PC
Sean ending Pc
I laughed at my bbw comment and hope you did too.
Texansballer74
The Marine
So I can't laugh and enjoy myself. And you might want to revisit several of Bill O'Brien presser concerning the discussion at hand.
Yes I laughed at that comment too.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No. You're over-reading. He has said 50 times that he and Smith jointly make decisions on personnel. You want to put everything on Smith.
Again,That's not what he said in his season ending press conference.
Ricky McNair is the GM?
Please find and post the quote you're talking about. I looked on the HT.com website and I can't find it.
I heard it on 610 at the time and am not going to spend my time looking it up. The quote was basically this, Ricky gets players and it's our job as coaches to coach them up to the best of our abilities.
Cak knows the quote I'm talking about. He's just glossing over it.
Fact is after 11 yrs of Rick Smith and 3 yrs of BOB after taking over a 2-14 team that Rick had assembled the team is no better than it was in 2009. Rick has presided over 2 regimes with basically the same results and had no/very little accountability. How many more yrs until fans start realizing the problem is Bob/Ricky McNair.
If Watson doesn't work out will Ricky be held accountable? (Doubtful) I hate it for Watson that he's going to have to go thru some of the things that Warren Moon went thru due to Ricky's incompetence.
If Watson doesn't work out will Ricky be held accountable? (Doubtful) I hate it for Watson that he's going to have to go thru some of the things that Warren Moon went thru due to Ricky's incompetence.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
No your reading what you want to believe into what was said... OB said something along the lines of Rick gets the players coaches coach them.
That in no way implies that OB isn't involved in the process of getting players.
As others have pointed out to you MANY times - if Rick and OB discuss what players are available in FA and the draft and who they might potentially want and come to an agreement on that list of players. It is still Rick that goes and get's those players. Pretty simple unless you just want to make every post in the world "Rick Smith sucks".
OB last year wasn't able to make the offense even look like an NFL offense - as much as you like to blame Rick, that ain't his fault. Not like he gave them a bag of scrubs, there were a few injury issues that messed the line up, but there is NFL talent on the offense, OB or Godsey just failed to develop a plan that actually worked.
That in no way implies that OB isn't involved in the process of getting players.
As others have pointed out to you MANY times - if Rick and OB discuss what players are available in FA and the draft and who they might potentially want and come to an agreement on that list of players. It is still Rick that goes and get's those players. Pretty simple unless you just want to make every post in the world "Rick Smith sucks".
OB last year wasn't able to make the offense even look like an NFL offense - as much as you like to blame Rick, that ain't his fault. Not like he gave them a bag of scrubs, there were a few injury issues that messed the line up, but there is NFL talent on the offense, OB or Godsey just failed to develop a plan that actually worked.
I do agree McNair is the ultimately the problem.
He can't hire the right people to build a competent front office and coaching staff, although Crennel is great
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
They have said they haven't disagreed.
In other words my BOB quote was correct.
Who decided to neglect the OL in FA/Draft last offseason? I know he drafted Martin, I was speaking of drafting an OT to replace Newton before last offseason and be Brown's replacement. To be fair I didn't want Ricky to re-sign Netwon in the 1st place.
Who decided to neglect FA in total and only make a token effort to fix the OL in the draft this offseason? Until the OL gets fixed it wont matter who the QB is.
That's truly amazing if true and both of them should be fired as I've said many times. I don't believe for a minute that they agreed on the Os signing.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
You're insfferable - I never said your quote wasn't correct, I disagree with what YOU decide to read into a quote that OB said. What YOU are reading into it has never been uttered by OB not once, but the exact opposite of what YOU read into that quote has been stated by OB many, many, many (channeling Trump) times.
And that would be that these desicions are made together by Rick AND OB - and if they have a disagreement then McNair is the tie breaker. You ignore what OB actually says and swear to the gods that your interpetation, or amazing ability to read between the lines is how things actually are. It's like when you watch OB you see a special "wink" just for you that let's you know you're right.
So who decided to neglect the OL - Rick AND OB, as both have stated in actual words, many times.
I have to go... I see helicopters and men in black suits are knocking on the door - never give up SteelB! The truth is out there, find the smoking man!
Texansballer74
The Marine
They did not neglect the offensive line. They brought in Allen and Bergstrom (didnt pan out), drafted Martin, Filo, Queensbury ( cancer derailed his career) and several other linemen. So please lets not play that weak card.
How is drafting linemen a neglect. You do know the Cowboys built their mighty line through the draft.
I liked the Allen signing.
Most of the guys you named were late rd picks or in Bergstroms case replaced in Oakland by a better player. XSF = Busty and Martin has a lengthy injury history. Really it's not about where a guy gets picked, it's about who's doing the picking and that person has failed.
Take a look at how Dallas built their OL and compare that to how the Texans built their OL. If you cant see the difference then you aren't being objective.
So BOB's quote stands on its own.
I need not say more.
Carry on, no minds will be changed.
I'm not so sure there is a problem. We're not the only team not to do a Super Bowl I the last 11 years. We're closer than most, imo. Just a matter of time.
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Like 20 yrs or so.
One of 32... everyone else is a loser.
We're closer than 20 other teams.
I don't have 20 years to wait
VTexan
Rookie
lifelong texan and season ticket holder since 2005 here...
BoB has sure racked up his fair share of what my father and i call, "all-time texans losses" in his short time here....i'd have to say losing at home, after one of cities most emotional times, to a young and inexperienced jaguars team WITH the same sort of opening day dejavu of yanking your starting qb.... well add it to the list.
and add my name to the pink soap list.
BoB has sure racked up his fair share of what my father and i call, "all-time texans losses" in his short time here....i'd have to say losing at home, after one of cities most emotional times, to a young and inexperienced jaguars team WITH the same sort of opening day dejavu of yanking your starting qb.... well add it to the list.
and add my name to the pink soap list.
nut
Veteran
OBrien is an offensive genius. From 2015 to 2017, we were 21st, 28th & 23rd in scoring. How is that not indicative of a great offensive mind? We should give him a Smith - type contract extension for his all around excellence. When you throw in yesterday's stats, he looks even better.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I'll never come to the mans defense again. What he was hired to do and what we're looking at (really what we've been looking at for years now) are two entirely different things. I don't think this asshole knows a goddamn thing about offense to be honest. Every part of that side of the ball is worse than it was when he walked in the door and I no longer believe he even knows what a plan is much less actually has one in his possession.