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it's official - Rams to move to L.A.
- Thread starter toronto
- Start date
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I hope the Chargers don't move, but I guess it doesn't matter really. Their ownership sucks and they are a very poorly ran team. It could cause Rivers to go nuts though to where he would become available for a trade perhaps.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
These teams act like a bunch of desperate dudes that want to date the hot chick. only problem is she only dates chicks.
LA doesn't care about NFL football. They are even more apathetic than Jacksonville.
LA doesn't care about NFL football. They are even more apathetic than Jacksonville.
A trade that would be terrific for a team hungry for a bunch of meaningless numbers at QB. Maybe SD could get Cleveland to trade their water supply.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I can't imagine leaving San Diego for LA. Just bleh. San Diego is a great town. LA is Beelzebub's bunghole.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I didn't suggest that SD wanted to trade him. I was talking about Rivers possibly forcing one. He tried to last off season, and got really disgruntled. SD turned around and paid him a lot of money, and it was to good not to sign the extension for him. His biggest concern appeared to be his disdain for L.A and the possibility of them landing there from all of the talk. He wants nothing to do with that town, and people close to him have always stated that he is a country boy at heart that would love to play in several places in the South.
The sad part is that if the Texans would have made that move this season they'd easily be a SB contender right now, and maybe even the favorite with NE decimated. The team would be one dangerous group to deal with if they had Rivers leading the offense instead of Hoyer. That deal could have been made. Smith did the typical Smith though.
- I didn't suggest that you suggested that SD wanted to trade him.
- Nothing more than your guess, at best, that they (the Texans) would easily be a SB contender right now with Rivers. They could just as easily be a turmoiled and rudderless, devoid of offensive leadership, and loser albatrossed, entity with him. Rivers makes Marino look like a multi-time champion and leader of men. Pssshh.
What move could the Texans have made?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Are you serious? We just got to the playoffs with terrible QB play all season. Rivers can ball and could have easily gotten us at least two or three more wins. We'd be headed into the post season with a very good QB instead of a trio that can't get us anywhere unless you are crazy enough to lump Rivers in with Hoyer. Right now we are not a real contender. We are the best team in a bad division. Rivers was available for trade.
I'm seriously not convinced that Rivers isn't part of their problem at this point. Just like I'm becoming convinced that there's more to Rivers, or maybe I should say less to Rivers, than his numbers indicate. I'm becoming further convinced that his numbers are buoyed by his tools much in the same way that his results are anchored by his lack of intangibles. And I'm not putting SD's woes all on him, but I'm not ignoring the fact that he's been just as steady a factor throughout SD's years of mediocre to meaningless football.
You think Rivers has been sorely wronged by poor management there, I'm just not so quick to give Rivers a pass on all of their failures. In fact I think he may be more at the heart of them.
I think there is something to what you say, but also that he has been hampered by the team most years. He had his best shots early when LT was still there but was injured for the AFCG and still did pretty well. Most recent years that team has just not been good enough
QBs need good teams around them to succeed. Just look at Carson Palmer's career with the Bengals and Raiders compared to what he's been able to do with the Cardinals. I have no doubt that Rivers would be a badass on a team with a good defense and some offensive weapons. But no QB, not even the elite like Brady and Rodgers, can carry a team very far all by themselves.
As far as these teams moving, I hate it. It just reveals the underlying greed at the heart of the league. They act like they care about fans, but in truth, it's just the revenue from customers...errrr...fans that really matters. They demand loyalty from a fanbase but offer none in return without public financial guarantees and PSL scams.
As far as these teams moving, I hate it. It just reveals the underlying greed at the heart of the league. They act like they care about fans, but in truth, it's just the revenue from customers...errrr...fans that really matters. They demand loyalty from a fanbase but offer none in return without public financial guarantees and PSL scams.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Of course QBs can't do it by themselves. You have to have some semblance of a team. We focus on how hard it is to find a QB and all the QB busts, but there are plenty of busts at other positions too. You get lucky enough to get your QB, great. So what are you doing with the rest of your picks? I haven't ever really dove into San Diego Chargers draft history so I can't comment on what they've done in that regard.
What I do know is that the Texans have enough of a team already, that adding a Rivers caliber QB would make them SB contenders. He can cover up some of the flaws with this team that Hoyer and others can't.
Yeah, I understand the Texans won 9 games and are in the playoffs with 4 different QBs, which speaks for the team they have, particularly the defense, but what could they have done with one good one? I believe the Texans, with the defense they have, are a QB away from being real contenders on a year in year out basis. Of course you've still got to maintain that team.
Yep. You know, I see Kroger, HEB, Costco, Wal-Mart building these huge mega stores all around the city and don't ever hear of them trying to get the taxpayer to help build their stores. Maybe they get a kickback somewhere, I don't know. But if an NFL team wants to build a store (stadium), look out.
And I still don't get the fascination of LA. I mean I get it from a market size and money I'm told can be made there standpoint, but 3 teams moved away from that. And as it turns out, those same 3 teams want to go back?
If you were king, would you trade your picks to move up & get the QB you want.... Goff, Lynch, whoever... or would you trade those picks for Phillip Rivers, Matt Stafford/Ryan?
Or do you think Colin Kaepernick could be our guy?
The biggest reason they left is that they had to play in the Coliseum. Built in the 1920's in an area now that is a nightmare to get in and out of, almost impossible to sell out (no local tv or tv revenue). Looks like LA is agreeing for a new stadium that would be an improvement in all areas. Not surprising the teams want to go back
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
1st of all, I never thought Kaepernick was good ever. He's one of these great athletes that come out and can run like the wind, but don't know how to play QB. There's a guy who won that had a great team around him. A team that a Dilfer could "lead", VY, hell, maybe even Tebow.
So no, I do not think Kaepernick is the guy and wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.
Secondly, I don't know what kind of deals you're talking about to move up that far, but I'm guessing it would be pretty pricey. I don't make Ricky Williams type moves to go get one of those top QBs, whoever they may be. 1) even though I'm a firm believer that a good Schaub type QB or better is needed to contend yearly, there's only so many flaws that even the Brady's and Manning's can cover up. You still have to have a defense that can stop somebody (see Saints). You still have to have some semblance of a team.
So sacrificing a boat load of picks to get a QB that you have about a 20-25% chance of getting right, no, I don't do that. You'd almost have just as much of a shot of getting someone where you are in the 20's, whoever would be available there, or getting someone in the 2nd. I mean let's face it, just about any QB any one drafts any where is a project. Some just get thrown into the fire sooner than others.
2) I'd definitely pick up the phone to see what it would take to get a Rivers, Stafford, Ryan or anyone like that. Rivers at 34 probably still has at the very least 2-3 more good years in him. That would certainly buy you time to find a QB to groom while at the same time, making you a contender with the team you have. Same with Stafford, though at his age, he could be the guy for the next 5-7 years or more. I'd be more inclined, as king, to do more to try and get that done, with proven QBs, than take my chances in the draft.
I want a QB, you know I want a QB, but I don't want to be dumb about it. Like I said, I know moving up to get a Goff or whoever the top of the class is, will be very pricey. I have no idea what it would take to get Rivers or Stafford, but I'd be a lot more willing to do the latter than the former.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I hope the Rams get turned down for relocation and then I hope the city of St. Louis finds some way to lock their ass out of the stadium. They can go play in a high school stadium in Branson or something.
As for the Chargers staying in SD ... meh. All three of these teams left LA at some point in their history.
As for the Chargers staying in SD ... meh. All three of these teams left LA at some point in their history.
I agree completely that dropping Rivers into our roster would be a huge upgrade. I have no doubt that the Texans would dominate the division with this defense and a QB that can consistently make plays.
Another point that I completely agree with. You do not see cities bending over backwards and building publicly financed buildings for large manufacturing companies that can greatly benefit citizens much more than a sports team.
This is the topic where I separate the sport we love from the business of an entertainment industry. These team owners in various leagues have found a magic formula to scam taxpayers into believing self-image and quality of life are dependent on having a sports team. The L.A. situation with the NFL continues to reveal that a market is more important to the league/owners than having a team is to fans.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Happens all the time. Just not as widely publicized. You can pretty much guarantee if you see a major corporation move they have gotten a tax abatement etc. as an incentive.
Very large tax abatement's also
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Montgomery County has been giving out huge ones for the past few years
Tax abatement is not the same as publicly financed facilities. Hell, cities often confiscate land through eminent domain to build sports facilities. Contrast that to a local manufacturer that we have had as a client for years, and the city all but told them to move if they didn't want to pay going property tax rates. This manufacturing company employs thousands of local citizens.
True, but I do not see any pro sports team moving to Montgomery County any time soon. I've had clients look at land in Montgomery County, but then we do a cost analysis of how much more they will pay in inland freight to deliver shipments to/from the port / airport and it has often been of little benefit in big picture savings.
From a recent Forbes article: Publicly Financed Sports Stadiums Are A Game That Taxpayers Lose
And here's a forum darling skewering the same subject: Watch John Oliver shred public funding for sports stadiums
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Look at Kelo. Publicly financed at least you get the money back. It ain't free. They just steal land to bring in business. Not everyone has the stroke to do it but rest assured big business does.
Cities do not "get the money back" when you consider the massive infrastructure that must be built and maintained around sports facilities.
When you cut through the propaganda bullshit being served by the sports entertainment industry and actually look at the actual studies conducted by unbiased professional economists, there is clear and indisputable evidence supporting the fact that sports facilities benefit owners and offer no substantial positive economic impact for cities. I figure that you, of all folks, would appreciate the science behind it instead of the pandering and unverified claims being perpetuated by those who serve to benefit from it.
Did you watch the John Oliver video?
This is where you have to detach yourself from the emotion of being a sports fan and look at it from a citizen perspective.
The fact of the matter is that these leagues make plenty of money and could finance their own facilities, even including tax abatement as incentive, but they do not have to do so because they know that they can play on emotion and perpetuate the billion dollar scam over and over again.
I can find many reputable studies that not only challenge the lies being perpetuated by sports leagues, but blow their arguments out of the water time and time again.
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Funny, but I've yet to see a single fully-modeled analysis. There's clear correlative information to be certain, but correlation doesn't equal causation, especially when you're talking about tax revenues that go down to every mom & pop store that sells NFL merchandise.
It's not impossible to fully model, but it's awfully damn difficult. Most studies cherry-pick items of particular interest to them. Higher poverty rates, governmental budget shortfalls, etc. seem to have a correlation, but no direct link.
Owner's percentages of the build costs have actually gone up, but so have the overall costs of the facilities, so that cities are still forking out more overall money than ever for startup costs.
I'd rather the local entities start charging the owners an adjustable rate charge for use of the facilities as the years go by, rather than these cents-on-the-dollar deals. They might be reasonable at first, but shortchange the city badly less than halfway into their 30-year terms.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Bonds are a low interest loan. Tax abatements are a pure giveaway. If you have some evidence of NFL teams defaulting ...
We'll just agree to disagree on this one.
toronto
Hall of Fame
I can't help but think Jeffrey Loria has screwed everything for any pro sports team trying to move.
Every city/county/state remembers this and will NEVER be duped again.
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...am-in-professional-sports-is-in-miami/273644/
Every city/county/state remembers this and will NEVER be duped again.
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...am-in-professional-sports-is-in-miami/273644/
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Look at the numbers Rivers have been able to put up with a lot of okay weapons, but nothing that great. He helped lead them to an AFC championship game when they had a much better team, and they were cut short by Troy Brown making a huge play to strip the ball from a guy which may have had them in the SB otherwise. That game got Marty fired as well. It wasn't the fault of Rivers and that was also the SB winner they lost to which had won their 3rd ring that year.
Rivers has gotten screwed a lot due to injuries to Gates and his receivers throughout the years. One season management wouldn't even pay Jackson, so he sat out the entire season practically.
Bottom line, Rivers is 100 times better than anyone we've had in the last 2 seasons under OB. It isn't a stretch at all to suggest we'd have won two to three more games which would have us around a 12-4 type of season, and would have us a lot more capable in the post season. He is a lot better bet than anyone else we'd have had a shot at last off season or in this off season unless you want to argue for Stafford who seems like he can only play well when Calvin Johnson is playing out of his mind, and even then he isn't that hot. Stafford had one fantastic season in his 2nd or 3rd year though, and I thought he was on his way to being an elite level QB someday, but he just seems to be inconsistent and back and forth every other year.
Check into the incentives that auto manufacturers get when they move their plants into a new state. Here's what South Carolina offers just as an example. I remember when the Nissan plant was built right outside of Nashville, and this was back in the 70s, Nissan got the same sort of incentive package to locate in Tennessee. Happens all the time.
I like the idea of bringing Rivers here. But he has to bring Antonio Gates with him.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Rivers career QB Rating in the regular season is 95.5 with a 64.8 completion % with 281 TD's and 135 INT's.
Rivers career QB Rating the postseason is 85.2 with a 60.3 completion % with 11 TD's and 9 INT's.
He's clearly not the issue with the Chargers lack of postseasons success, but he is at least somewhat culpable.
Rivers career QB Rating the postseason is 85.2 with a 60.3 completion % with 11 TD's and 9 INT's.
He's clearly not the issue with the Chargers lack of postseasons success, but he is at least somewhat culpable.
htowntexans1985
1st Round Pick
Raiders owner Davis is pissed. I don't blame him having to watch his team play in the dirt of a baseball diamond on some weeks.
texanhead08
All Pro
LOL He's better right now than any QB we have ever had and most likely tan any QB we will have in the near future. This board is hilarious.
Can't speak for the future but sure, he'd likely be the best QB we've had. Woopty-doo. You're acting like that's a crowning achievement.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm surprised the Rams got the bid. I would have thought the Raiders would have gotten it considering they used to be in Los Angeles and the fact that they're a California based team. I hate seeing a team, like St. Louis, start to become a good team and then leave their city/state. Reminds me of what Oklahoma City did in basketball to Seattle fans.
The Rams belong in LA. Kroenke being very rich and putting up his own $$$$ to build his stadium in Inglewood sealed the deal.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The Rams were in LA for longer than they have been in St. Louis. The started for 7-8 years in Cleveland, spent about 50 in LA and then the last 20 in St. Louis.
The Raiders went to LA when the Rams left and only stayed about 12 years.
The Rams have by far the longest/largest LA history.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Still, it sucks for St. Louis fans. I know they only had a team because LA left in the first place, but I figure as Houston fans, we can sympathize with them a little bit.
If you think he is a bad QB that puts up meaningless numbers maybe you should change the way you watch football. What youre doing now isn't working.
No, that's like feeling bad for a thief when the victim takes back what was stolen from them. As former victims of this Houston should be the last ones feeling sorry for franchise thieves like St Louis. Also St Louis Rams still sounds as stupid as the Tennessee Oilers sounded.
Glad they're back to being the LA Rams.
Another thing it's interesting seeing St Louis supporters stating that LA already lost 2 teams in the past so have already proven that they can't support the NFL. Guess what? St Louis has now lost two NFL teams also so I guess they have proven the same.
I said what I think about Rivers in more detail earlier. I'd honestly be thrilled if you disagree.
Yep its definitely not working!
Very good.