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Chronicle: The Mallett/Hoyer Competition

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...s-Mallett-Hoyer-begin-friendly-QB-6295063.php

Bill O'Brien has a great sense of humor. Need proof? Look at how different the two guys are whom he chose to duke it out for the Texans' starting quarterback job in 2015.

Being the oddest of couples and the most polar of opposites in terms of their appearance, attitude and physical attributes, Ryan Mallett and Brian Hoyer do make a funny Mutt and Jeff pairing. O'Brien obviously believes there's more than one way to skin a Colt, a Titan or a Jaguar.

The 6-6 Mallett, a brash, cocksure country boy from Texarkana, is the very definition of gangly, and he can flat fling a football through the proverbial barn door. Unless, of course, he misses the barn altogether, which does happen on occasion. A short flat pass from Mallett to Jaelen Strong during the team's first OTA session this week drilled the startled rookie receiver squarely in the hands, then ricocheted 50 feet in the opposite direction.

While the 6-3 Hoyer is only 3 inches shorter, he looks markedly smaller standing next to his teammate. Also, in interviews, he comes across as almost urbane, expressing himself with a professorial eloquence (a shaved head and neatly trimmed beard add to the appearance). He offers insight, analysis and introspection in equal parts. And while he doesn't fire bullets, he usually throws bull's-eyes.

Apples and oranges, these guys.

But, in their own distinct ways, they're chasing the same prize again, except with far higher stakes. When they competed as New England Patriots in 2011 - O'Brien was their offensive coordinator - the winner, Hoyer, could tell folks he was Tom Brady's understudy. The winner in Houston gets handed the keys to the franchise.

Based on their history, the competition will be more friendly than fierce. Opposites do attract. Mallett called being reunited on the practice field and in the meeting room with Hoyer, who signed with the Texans as a free agent in March, "just like old times. We haven't missed a step. He's come in here and he's worked hard, and I'm trying to do the same."

O'Brien insists it's a "may-the-best-man-win" dynamic, and there's no reason to question the coach's sincerity.

Nonetheless, the coach probably would prefer that Mallett, who held the job briefly last season before being injured in a freak weight-room mishap, seize the moment because he's younger and stronger with, arguably, far more upside potential. But Hoyer knows all about having the deck stacked against him, having dealt with Johnny Manziel in Cleveland last season.

It's old hat for Hoyer

Battling for the starting job with "Hard Knocks" for a backdrop will be a lark compared with coping with Johnny Football hysteria.

"I've been through it before, so I'm not going to let it affect me," Hoyer said. "I'll just be myself and really focus on those things that I can control."

Although Hoyer has been out of O'Brien's offense since 2011, spending a season with both Pittsburgh and Arizona before playing with his hometown Browns in 2013-14, he said his retention is good and the fundamental principles of the system remain unchanged.

"I felt real comfortable out there; I thought it went well," he said after the first OTA. "There were a few new concepts, some new terminology, but it wasn't much. It really is the same offense, and it's a great offense."

It's one that requires discipline, careful calibrations and football smarts.

Mallett has had his detractors on each count at different junctures in his career, but nobody can claim he didn't have a firm grip on the reins when he made his first NFL start last fall, beating Hoyer and the Browns in Cleveland. But he suffered a torn pectoral muscle lifting the next day, then tried to play through the pain the next Sunday against Cincinnati, with predictably abysmal results.

He has healed up fine. Ask Strong, who's still looking for a couple of his fingers.

"I was ready to go," said Mallett, who was acquired in a trade with the Patriots after training camp last summer to be Ryan Fitzpatrick's backup. "It felt like I haven't played ball in a while, so it was good to go out there and go 11-on-11, not just install plays and run with the offense. It was fun to be out there with the guys. It's back to work, (time to get) ready for the season.

"We're starting to form a foundation now."

Mallett oozes confidence

A reporter pointed out how settled under center Mallett appeared during the practice and how sure of himself he sounded afterward.

"Come on," he said, "I've never lacked for confidence. I felt good out there. I felt in control at the line and with the guys."

Hoyer suggested mastering O'Brien's scheme "is 30 percent physical and 70 percent mental."

"You can be the most physically talented quarterback there is, but if you don't know where to go with the ball, you're going to be lost," Hoyer said. "The mental part is by far the most important part of it. And it really requires you to be accurate. So footwork and throwing motion matter a lot. You have to get your body in position to make the right throws."

Mallett proved, at least for a single afternoon in 2014 - at Hoyer's expense - he's up to the task, no matter how much intellect or precision is required. Hoyer, in turn, has yet to prove anything as a Texan.

"For me, it's about getting back into the system with new guys," Hoyer said. "This is the time to learn your personnel and teammates, then you regroup heading into training camp with all those things kind of resolved.

"You try to get better every day as far as communicating, being a leader. Obviously at quarterback, that's kind of a big part of the job. Just getting everybody lined up (correctly), those type of things are huge right now.

"You try to eliminate pre-snap mistakes. The quarterback is responsible for a lot of that. I think also building (relationships) with the receivers, so you know who you're throwing to and you know what receivers are good at 'in' cuts, 'out' cuts. This is the time to learn."

Game on.

Bolded in red. Discuss.
 
...mastering O'Brien's scheme "is 30 percent physical and 70 percent mental."

"You can be the most physically talented quarterback there is, but if you don't know where to go with the ball, you're going to be lost," Hoyer said. "The mental part is by far the most important part of it. And it really requires you to be accurate. So footwork and throwing motion matter a lot. You have to get your body in position to make the right throws."
...
"You try to eliminate pre-snap mistakes. The quarterback is responsible for a lot of that..."

OB's hierarchy of required QB traits...

1) Smart
2) Accurate
3)...​

I'll be focusing on how both fulfill requirement #2.

Add, cool pic in the article of Mal pointing the Mike...

1024x1024.jpg

Brett Coomer/chron.com
 
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Okay so we have
(a) The 6-6 Mallett, a brash, cocksure country boy from Texarkana, is the very definition of gangly, and he can flat fling a football through the proverbial barn door. Unless, of course, he misses the barn altogether, which does happen on occasion. A short flat pass from Mallett to Jaelen Strong during the team's first OTA session this week drilled the startled rookie receiver squarely in the hands, then ricocheted 50 feet in the opposite direction.

or

(b)
While the 6-3 Hoyer is only 3 inches shorter, he looks markedly smaller standing next to his teammate. Also, in interviews, he comes across as almost urbane, expressing himself with a professorial eloquence (a shaved head and neatly trimmed beard add to the appearance). He offers insight, analysis and introspection in equal parts. And while he doesn't fire bullets, he usually throws bull's-eyes.

Forgive me if my preference is to take bulls-eyes over ricochets.
 
I'm optimistic reading stuff like this. But at the same time, after our history of carting multiple QBs off in the medical cart every year, we may not even have the faintest clue who'll be starting for the Texans in December.
 
2) Accurate​
I'll be focusing on how both fulfill requirement #2.

Forgive me if my preference is to take bulls-eyes over ricochets.

Bit of narrative license to say that Hoyer usually throws bull's-eyes.

I'm not getting this Hoyer accuracy narrative that is being reported/spun. It doesn't match what my eyes tell me or the stats.

Mallet's one healthy start 66.67% (with not 1 RB dump off). Hoyer's 16 starts in Cleveland 56.0%.
 
So who's lying?
One report says Mallett is throwing the ball through receiver's hands and says Hoyer is throwing bulls-eyes. The next report says Hoyer is high and Mallett is on target. Reminds me of a dozen witnesses seeing the same accident and when police question them they get a dozen different stories.
:mariopalm:
 
So who's lying?
One report says Mallett is throwing the ball through receiver's hands and says Hoyer is throwing bulls-eyes. The next report says Hoyer is high and Mallett is on target. Reminds me of a dozen witnesses seeing the same accident and when police question them they get a dozen different stories.
:mariopalm:

I don't consider throwing too hard - "through receiver's hands" - to be an accuracy issue. That's touch. But I agree with your point.
 
All in on Mallett. If teams stack up against the run Malletts sheer arm strength will make those bitches back off
 
Isn't wanting accuracy from your QB pretty much universal among all coaches?
Cam Newton. Matthew Stafford. Joe Flacco (x/Kubiak). Kaepernick. Mark Sanchez. Even most years of Eli Manning/Jay Cutler.

Alex Smith.

Where do they value it? How high is it on their list?

Blake Bortles or Teddy Bridgewater. Not everyone agrees.
 
Wright: There Should Be No Texans Quarterback Competition

“Competition is always good.” That’s a cliché you hear from football coaches so often that we just take it to be a fact. Kind of like, “The media causes distractions” or “While my locker room can handle criminals, racists and Neanderthals, a gay guy would be just TOO MUCH TO DEAL WITH!”, these are just things coaches say, and they’re rarely true.

How does this apply to your Houston Texans? Well, here’s how: I don’t want a competition at quarterback and I don’t think a competition at quarterback is necessary. Let’s address these two points individually.

Why don’t I want a competition at quarterback? Quite simply, because I want Ryan Mallett to be the starter, basically no matter what. My logic on his is very simple: There’s a chance that Ryan Mallett, if given the opportunity, can be a great starting quarterback. Now, that chance is very small, probably less than 10%, but it’s a chance all the same.

On the other hand, there’s literally no chance that Brian Hoyer can be an elite starting quarterback. None. It’s quite literally impossible. He’s got an entire body of work that shows us exactly what he is: a journeyman quarterback who is better than most backups but significantly worse than most starters.

Now, you might be thinking that if this is what I think of Brian Hoyer, why would I worried about a quarterback competition. Well, because some guys aren’t great practice players and Hoyer has exponentially more experience than Mallett and it’s totally possible that in the small sample size of split reps at Training Camp that Brian Hoyer could outshine Ryan Mallett… and that would be awful for the Texans.

Why would it be awful for the Texans? That’s easy. There is only one easy path to the Texans becoming Super Bowl contenders. And that path is Ryan Mallett being a franchise quarterback. Every other path involves some amount of random blind luck in the draft. And I’m talking about extreme luck in the draft because the Texans don’t plan on picking in the top 10, much less the top 5, anytime soon. Thus, if Mallett isn’t the guy, it’s entirely possible that they go the entire Bill O’Brien era without ever finding the guy that is.

Now to the second point, why a competition isn’t necessary. This one is pretty simple. Do you really believe that if Ryan Mallett is named the starting quarterback for an NFL team, all of a sudden, he’s going to stop working hard? If he finally officially has his opportunity to make tens of millions of dollars and reach his lifelong dreams, that he’s all of sudden, going to decide to start getting high and playing Xbox after practice? If that were his mentality he’d have never gotten this far to begin with.

No, what’s more likely is this: Ryan Mallett is named the starter, he gets the lion’s share of reps in practice, he’s not constantly looking over his shoulder or worrying about making the mistake that’s going to put him behind in the “competition” and he plays as well as he can play, for good or for bad. And that, my friends, is exactly what the Texans should want. Even if it goes against the spirit of “competition.”
 
If I've learned anything from studying Pete Carroll (who I think is the best football coach in the world right now) it would be that competition is essential to the growth and development of a player and a team.

"Handing" the job to a specific player is detrimental to that player, because that player did not have to play up to his best to earn the position. If you practice at your best you will play at your best. It's no wonder that the best players in the league have a reputation for being competitive in practice as well. How many stories have we all heard about Brady or Manning busting a guy's chops in practice? Those guys practice at an elite level so that they are already in that mindset for the game. They don't have to be motivated or flip a switch. Now, not all elite players are like that. But most are, and it's not a coincidence.

Lack of competition is also detrimental to a team. Carroll has always pushed the belief that competition between teammates should be so intense that the actual game should feel like a cakewalk in comparison. You can just go out and have fun because you know that no opponent can push you to a level that you haven't already been pushed in preparation for that moment.

I basically just ended up writing an essay about that and I didn't mean to. Long story short, unless Mallett is so far ahead of the other QBs that it isn't even in doubt who is the best, then it would be in his best interest to push himself to a level beyond what he has previously reached so that he can guarantee he will stay ahead in the race. The same goes for Hoyer and Savage. And if all three do this then it doesn't matter who wins the job. Because if all three have competed against each other to improve themselves, then each will be better than they otherwise would have been if there had been no competition in the first place.
 
If I've learned anything from studying Pete Carroll (who I think is the best football coach in the world right now) it would be that competition is essential to the growth and development of a player and a team.

"Handing" the job to a specific player is detrimental to that player, because that player did not have to play up to his best to earn the position. If you practice at your best you will play at your best. It's no wonder that the best players in the league have a reputation for being competitive in practice as well. How many stories have we all heard about Brady or Manning busting a guy's chops in practice? Those guys practice at an elite level so that they are already in that mindset for the game. They don't have to be motivated or flip a switch. Now, not all elite players are like that. But most are, and it's not a coincidence.

I think you may be on to something. But I don't think it is competition that make these guys great. Peyton Manning never had to compete with anyone. He practices the way he does because he knows he has to to get what he wants.

I don't think Pete Carroll picked Russell Wilson because he was more accurate than Flynn on thedeep out. He more than likely saw someone who expects more from himself, works hard to accomplish his goals, & has the ability to inspire others to work toward those goals.

It's highly likely that OB doesn't see those qualities in Mallett, but he saw them in Hoyer. Maybe that's why he was willing to out I'd the competition to acquire Hoyer, but left Mallett with a take it or leave it deal.
 
Mallet and Hoyer have a lot to the table. But really it is about outdoing yourself. And playing hard.
 
OK. This is out there, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

Just suppose that we have a good camp and Mallett, Hoyer and Savage shine brightly in a system they have mastered. Now imagine that the Patriots find out that Brady will sit the full 4 games and Garappolo gets an injury that takes him out of the first four games. Would we want to trade a good QB that will probably be a backup to New England leaving us with just two QBs?
 
If it's not Mallett then we are screwed. Hoyer is who he is -- and that's Fitz part deux.
If Mallett has an entire season like the browns game we'll be ok. If not, then
get ready for BoB to bring in another round of scrub FA QB's again next year..
 
OK. This is out there, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

Just suppose that we have a good camp and Mallett, Hoyer and Savage shine brightly in a system they have mastered. Now imagine that the Patriots find out that Brady will sit the full 4 games and Garappolo gets an injury that takes him out of the first four games. Would we want to trade a good QB that will probably be a backup to New England leaving us with just two QBs?

If we get something out of it that makes us better, sure.

I wouldn't mind a situation where we go with Mallett with Savage as our backup and trade Hoyer to the Patriots for someone like... oh... I don't know... Chris Jones? :)
 
OK. This is out there, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

Just suppose that we have a good camp and Mallett, Hoyer and Savage shine brightly in a system they have mastered. Now imagine that the Patriots find out that Brady will sit the full 4 games and Garappolo gets an injury that takes him out of the first four games. Would we want to trade a good QB that will probably be a backup to New England leaving us with just two QBs?
If we get something out of it that makes us better, sure.

I wouldn't mind a situation where we go with Mallett with Savage as our backup and trade Hoyer to the Patriots for someone like... oh... I don't know... Chris Jones? :)
I'm thinking Donte Hightower.
...and a 3rd

......for Hoyer
:D
 
OK. This is out there, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

Just suppose that we have a good camp and Mallett, Hoyer and Savage shine brightly in a system they have mastered. Now imagine that the Patriots find out that Brady will sit the full 4 games and Garappolo gets an injury that takes him out of the first four games. Would we want to trade a good QB that will probably be a backup to New England leaving us with just two QBs?

Seeing as we'd have them by the short and curlies, no less than a 2nd rounder and sure. Otherwise tell 'em they can enjoy the Tavaris Jackson/Jason Campbell/Mike Vick/Matt Flynn life.
 
If we get something out of it that makes us better, sure.

I wouldn't mind a situation where we go with Mallett with Savage as our backup and trade Hoyer to the Patriots for someone like... oh... I don't know... Chris Jones? :)

I see what you did there...
 
i25.jpg



From Mile Silver's profile of OB.

"Both guys are competitive as hell," O'Brien said. "We feel like we have two really good guys. I know people on the outside aren't high on our quarterbacks, but I feel really good about our situation."​

And while it has been presumed that the impending quarterback competition between Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett, two players O'Brien previously coached during his time as the New England Patriots' offensive coordinator, will be one of the reality show's most obvious and compelling storylines, he might be giving that the wet-blanket treatment, as well.

"That decision may be made before training camp," O'Brien said. "They're out here competing (in OTAs and at mandatory minicamp) every single day, and it's pretty intense. So, we may pick a guy very soon. And if we don't, and the decision does go into training camp, it'll be made pretty early on. The team needs to know who the guy is, and we need to go forward."


For the first time I think it may be Hoyer.
 
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If it's Hoyer, then my hope is that we go 0-16 in a tanked attempt to get Christian Hackenberg at #1.
 
I was down last year this time about Fitzpatrick being our starting QB. And while he did not light it up, he certainly played above anything I expected from him. I attribute it to coaching...and Foster and defense, of course. ;)

That said, I'm going to hold on getting down about it if Hoyer is given the job. I'm not stoked about the guy, but, I'm also not going to assume the worst. I figure O'Brien has earned at least a little benefit of the doubt until the season starts and we see Hoyer in action during meaningful games.
 
That said, I'm going to hold on getting down about it if Hoyer is given the job. I'm not stoked about the guy, but, I'm also not going to assume the worst. I figure O'Brien has earned at least a little benefit of the doubt until the season starts and we see Hoyer in action during meaningful games.

And what is it exactly that makes everyone think that if Hoyer does get the job, he continues to keep it if he doesn't play well? Just because it might be his job on opening day, does that mean OB stops evaluating his performance?

I think this whole "if Mallett doesn't 'get the job' the sky will fall" doomsday scenario is getting a little overblown.
 
"If you were to give [the starting job] tomorrow, I think it would go to Brian Hoyer but there's still a long way to go.

Accuracy has been issue for both. Accuracy was an issue for Mallett in NE, it was an issue last year, and it's still an issue and honestly it will be difficult for Mallett to win the starting spot if he can't become more accurate."

-- Brian T Smith, Chron.com
 
How much more accurate do you have to be? Hoyer is 56% for his career. Fitzpatrick is 60%. This is why I think we stay in QB hell if Hoyer wins this thing. I don't think he's going to be as good as Fitz was. Fitz was 3% better than his career average last season and even if Hoyer has that same increase he's still below 60%. Schaub's worst year here was 61%. If Mallett is so bad with accuracy that he can't beat out a 56% completion percentage, then we're fuqd at QB another year.
 
How much more accurate do you have to be? Hoyer is 56% for his career. Fitzpatrick is 60%. This is why I think we stay in QB hell if Hoyer wins this thing. I don't think he's going to be as good as Fitz was. Fitz was 3% better than his career average last season and even if Hoyer has that same increase he's still below 60%. Schaub's worst year here was 61%. If Mallett is so bad with accuracy that he can't beat out a 56% completion percentage, then we're fuqd at QB another year.

Accuracy isn't summed up in completion percentage.
 
Accuracy isn't summed up in completion percentage.
Of course it isn't. But it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the games I saw of Hoyer last season, he couldn't hit the water if he fell out of a boat. If Mallett can't beat that, then we're in trouble.
 
Of course it isn't. But it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the games I saw of Hoyer last season, he couldn't hit the water if he fell out of a boat. If Mallett can't beat that, then we're in trouble.

Mallett isn't being tasked with beating out last year's Cleveland Hoyer though, he's being tasked with his best right now in camp beating out Hoyer's current best as well. This system may fit Hoyer like a glove and be night and day different from any year he could have had in Cleveland.
 
Mallett isn't being tasked with beating out last year's Cleveland Hoyer though, he's being tasked with his best right now in camp beating out Hoyer's current best as well. This system may fit Hoyer like a glove and be night and day different from any year he could have had in Cleveland.

Maybe, maybe not. If Hoyer wins it, I hope that's the case. I'm not as optimistic about it as you apparently, but it's all just speculation with us any way. I'm not anybody when it comes to judging talent, and I only get to see game action, and I realize teams and o-lines and offensive philosophies can make a difference, but I just didn't see it in Hoyer last year. Yes, I know it was only his 1st full season and tons of great QBs take a minute to get going, and it was Cleveland. So there is that.

And believe me, I hate taking one good game from Mallett and putting my faith in that. But that's just how I feel after watching them both play. Maybe I'm still influenced by the excitement of Mallett taking over last year and playing well, but I just think Mallett has the bigger upside. Again, purely speculative.

If Hoyer is the starter, I hope like hell I'm just another MB poster that knows nothing.
 
I was down last year this time about Fitzpatrick being our starting QB. And while he did not light it up, he certainly played above anything I expected from him. I attribute it to coaching...and Foster and defense, of course. ;)

That said, I'm going to hold on getting down about it if Hoyer is given the job. I'm not stoked about the guy, but, I'm also not going to assume the worst. I figure O'Brien has earned at least a little benefit of the doubt until the season starts and we see Hoyer in action during meaningful games.
I agree. When Fitz was proclaimed the starter last spring I thought we were doomed. But O'Brien got more out of him than I sure thought he had. So now O'Brien has another "Fitz" who has knowledge of this offense. If O'Brien can get Fitz to have his career year in an offense he didn't know, I have to think he can get better from Hoyer, a guy who comes to camp already familiar with it.
 
And what is it exactly that makes everyone think that if Hoyer does get the job, he continues to keep it if he doesn't play well? Just because it might be his job on opening day, does that mean OB stops evaluating his performance?

I think this whole "if Mallett doesn't 'get the job' the sky will fall" doomsday scenario is getting a little overblown.

Pretty sure a lot of the reaction is based on Hoyer's career body of work. Which is to say politely, not impressive. And with turning 30 in October, there are legitimate questions about continued development and windows of opportunity for being a franchise QB.

Let's hope that if he is the starter, OB can get a career year out of him like he did with Fitz. Which would essentially make him Fitz. Same song different verse.

If Mallett can't be the "accurate" that OB is looking for, it's going to be Savage or back to the draft. I just can't envision Hoyer being anything other that Fitz. IMHO, of course.
 
I agree. When Fitz was proclaimed the starter last spring I thought we were doomed. But O'Brien got more out of him than I sure thought he had. So now O'Brien has another "Fitz" who has knowledge of this offense. If O'Brien can get Fitz to have his career year in an offense he didn't know, I have to think he can get better from Hoyer, a guy who comes to camp already familiar with it.

I think the big difference is that Fitz was signed as a stop-gap measure until The Guy could be found. Hoyer, who at 30 does not possess the career arc that Fitz did, is being brought in to compete for being The Guy. When Fitz was his age he had ~50 NFL starts under his belt and was coming of his career year of 3,800 yards with 24TD's on 62% accuracy. Hoyer at 29-turning-30 is still long on potential and short on results. And this is what I don't like, that we can put his up against Fitz and he doesn't come out favorably. That's a pretty low benchmark.
 
I think the big difference is that Fitz was signed as a stop-gap measure until The Guy could be found. Hoyer, who at 30 does not possess the career arc that Fitz did, is being brought in to compete for being The Guy. When Fitz was his age he had ~50 NFL starts under his belt and was coming of his career year of 3,800 yards with 24TD's on 62% accuracy. Hoyer at 29-turning-30 is still long on potential and short on results. And this is what I don't like, that we can put his up against Fitz and he doesn't come out favorably. That's a pretty low benchmark.
But if Hoyer does win the starting job it's not about comparing him to Fitz any more. It's about Mallett not stepping up to beat the "old guy" out.
 
But if Hoyer does win the starting job it's not about comparing him to Fitz any more. It's about Mallett not stepping up to beat the "old guy" out.

Agreed that it's about Mallett not being able to seize the opportunity. But in the OB regime, Fitz is the benchmark like it or not. Just because Hoyer could beat out Mallett doesn't mean he will be as good as Fitz was last year.

I get that OB is really really excited that these two are ultra-competitive with each other. But that doesn't mean that the winner between the two will put up a better season than Fitz did last year. And this team will need more than that to get to the next level.

Based on what I know about Hoyer's performance and Mallett's potential, and hearing about accuracy issues from both of them, I'm just not sure now that either are going to be The Guy. Good thing Foster is healthy and the defense is looking good.
 
But if Hoyer does win the starting job it's not about comparing him to Fitz any more. It's about Mallett not stepping up to beat the "old guy" out.

BTW, your blue font always makes me think you are speaking in sarcasm...
 
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