speedfreek
All Pro
Here's an interesting question:
Would you have rather traded for Mallett or Garoppolo?
(if that had been an option)
Would you have rather traded for Mallett or Garoppolo?
(if that had been an option)
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Here's an interesting question:
Would you have rather traded for Mallett or Garoppolo?
(if that had been an option)
Here's an interesting question:
Would you have rather traded for Mallett or Garoppolo?
(if that had been an option)
You say "no team would" so convincingly I am sure you have examples of teams signing high dollar backup contracts to keep expiring rookie contract QBs?
Mallett had an interview back before the draft where he made pretty clear when it was time to sign his next contract he wanted a starting shot. Haven't heard a hint of a whisper about either the Texans or Patriots actually talking contract to him. But all this the Patriots could re-sign him if they want stuff is nonsense. He would be a fool to do it. It would be all but the end of his football career. Brady's going to play another 4+ years and then he'd be an 8 year backup with 20 NFL throws, dead in the water. Look to see this same saga play out with Garoppolo at the tail end of his rookie contract unless Brady is clearly on his way out.
NE's philosophy is to let a guy go 1-2 years too early rather than keep said player 1-2 too late. We just saw this with them trading Mankins away. They won't have near the same dilema when Garapolo's contract is about to end b/c they'll likely be ready to part ways with Brady regardless.
Here's an interesting question:
Would you have rather traded for Mallett or Garoppolo?
(if that had been an option)
NE's philosophy is to let a guy go 1-2 years too early rather than keep said player 1-2 too late. We just saw this with them trading Mankins away. They won't have near the same dilema when Garapolo's contract is about to end b/c they'll likely be ready to part ways with Brady regardless.
So your saying Mallett is good for this season and maybe next?
I'll believe that philosophy applies to Brady the day I see it happen. In this particular instance it especially is a no way in Hades of it happening before the end of this contract because the way they did it his cap hit is a bargain for a starter much less a GOAT.
It may not come up. Brady's contract ends the same year Garoppolo's does - after 2017. I believe it will hang on what Brady is saying about the future at that point.
Preseason stats mean nothing without watching the game. The coach has an expectation of each & he calls the game accordingly. If I were the coach, I would expect Mallet to know the play book much better than Garappolo & I would expect him to call & run the plays as designed. I would call a different game for Garoppolo.
Mallet would be told to stay in the pocket, go through his progressions before breaking the pocket to make something happen. Garoppolo would have no restrictions, may be one read, then go.
I would expect Garoppolo's numbers to be higher, because for him it doesn't matter if the receivers ran the wrong route, or if the protection wasn't called correctly. Mallet... if his receiver runs the wrong route, he's not supposed to throw the ball.
I know this explanation won't make sense with most fans. Especially if they're Garoppolo fans. But there's no way Garoppolo knows the play book as well as Mallet. & just because one does "better" in the preseason than someone else, doesn't mean they are more talented..... Garoppolo is more talented than Brady, just because he's more athletic than Brady makes him more talented. But he's not a better QB, he's not more ready.
I am not saying that Mallet is better than Garoppolo, just saying you can't prove it one way or the other with preseason stats. If that were the case, then Zack Mettenberger is the most talented QB from this draft. & we know that's not true. If it doesn't hold water in Mettenberger's case, it doesn't prove anything in Garoppolo's.
I'll believe that philosophy applies to Brady the day I see it happen. In this particular instance it especially is a no way in Hades of it happening before the end of this contract because the way they did it his cap hit is a bargain for a starter much less a GOAT.
It may not come up. Brady's contract ends the same year Garoppolo's does - after 2017. I believe it will hang on what Brady is saying about the future at that point.
You can't possibly know this to be true and I'm positive that you're just making it up. Are you not familiar with Bill Belichick? Let his QB have no restrictions and then go? You do realize Mallett had twice as many rush yards as Garoppolo in the preseason right? He also rushed for one.
Again you are making assumptions.
He showed much more command of the offense, was more poised in the pocket, and was much more accurate.
Agree to disagree. Even after watching them both in the preseason, all things being equal Mallet would be my #2, Garoppolo my #3. If Brady was out of the picture, I'm starting Mallet before Garoppolo.
That's your prerogative, but for all of you to say that Garoppolo was handed the job because Mallett was halfway out the door is simply not true. He outplayed Mallett this preseason and it was perfectly reasonable for the Pats to select him as the backup because of it.
This thread has just reeked of guys hyping up Mallett because he's wearing a Texans jersey now.
That's your prerogative, but for all of you to say that Garoppolo was handed the job because Mallett was halfway out the door is simply not true. He outplayed Mallett this preseason and it was perfectly reasonable for the Pats to select him as the backup because of it.
This thread has just reeked of guys hyping up Mallett because he's wearing a Texans jersey now.
You say "no team would" so convincingly I am sure you have examples of teams signing high dollar backup contracts to keep expiring rookie contract QBs?
But... I wouldn't have drafted Garoppolo before the Aj McCarron, Zach Mettenberger, Aaron Murray, Connor Shaw, or Tom Savage. So I don't think he "outplayed" anyone, regardless how JonnyFootball he looked in the preseason.
What's the cost for each?Here's an interesting question:
Would you have rather traded for Mallett or Garoppolo?
(if that had been an option)
That's your prerogative, but for all of you to say that Garoppolo was handed the job because Mallett was halfway out the door is simply not true. He outplayed Mallett this preseason and it was perfectly reasonable for the Pats to select him as the backup because of it.
This thread has just reeked of guys hyping up Mallett because he's wearing a Texans jersey now
Garopollo was drafted because Brady continues to assert that he is going to play until he sucks. They knew Mallett would not stick around for another contract after this year. That is pretty freaking obvious to anyone who takes a look at things beyond the stat lines of glorified scrimmages. Completely freaking obvious.
For three years Mallett was THE guy who was going to be in the game should Brady go down. I doubt that BB would put him in that position if he was a bust. It just happens to be that BB got lucky on Brady's durability and never had to find out. Combined with Brady never leaving a game so he could pad stats, Mallett is a complete unknown at this point. That is why they are still using the word POTENTIAL for a guy in the last season of his rookie contract.
We all have opinions, but it was clear that Mallett was going to be the heir apparent before Brady started doing a Favre. Not everyone is like Kubiak and content to be a backup for their entire career to an HOFer. Garopollo has a much better chance of being that heir apparent simply because of Brady's age by the time his rookie contract is up.
But to say that they went with Garopollo instead of Mallett based only on their pre-season performances? That decision was made on draft day, and it had nothing to do with whether Mallett was a good QB or not.
Preseason stats mean nothing without watching the game. The coach has an expectation of each & he calls the game accordingly. If I were the coach, I would expect Mallet to know the play book much better than Garappolo & I would expect him to call & run the plays as designed. I would call a different game for Garoppolo.
Mallet would be told to stay in the pocket, go through his progressions before breaking the pocket to make something happen. Garoppolo would have no restrictions, may be one read, then go.
I would expect Garoppolo's numbers to be higher, because for him it doesn't matter if the receivers ran the wrong route, or if the protection wasn't called correctly. Mallet... if his receiver runs the wrong route, he's not supposed to throw the ball.
I know this explanation won't make sense with most fans. Especially if they're Garoppolo fans. But there's no way Garoppolo knows the play book as well as Mallet. & just because one does "better" in the preseason than someone else, doesn't mean they are more talented..... Garoppolo is more talented than Brady, just because he's more athletic than Brady makes him more talented. But he's not a better QB, he's not more ready.
I am not saying that Mallet is better than Garoppolo, just saying you can't prove it one way or the other with preseason stats. If that were the case, then Zack Mettenberger is the most talented QB from this draft. & we know that's not true. If it doesn't hold water in Mettenberger's case, it doesn't prove anything in Garoppolo's.
No team can afford two franchise QBs. Since Brady's still playing, Mallet had to leave to get a contract.
You say "no team would" so convincingly I am sure you have examples of teams signing high dollar backup contracts to keep expiring rookie contract QBs?
Mallett had an interview back before the draft where he made pretty clear when it was time to sign his next contract he wanted a starting shot. Haven't heard a hint of a whisper about either the Texans or Patriots actually talking contract to him. But all this the Patriots could re-sign him if they want stuff is nonsense. He would be a fool to do it. It would be all but the end of his football career. Brady's going to play another 4+ years and then he'd be an 8 year backup with 20 NFL throws, dead in the water. Look to see this same saga play out with Garoppolo at the tail end of his rookie contract unless Brady is clearly on his way out.
Well if the Pats were willing to trade Garoppolo then he was a higher round draft pick who couldn't beat out a no experience backup and the Pats clearly saw nothing in him so he's crap, right?
I agree that preseason stats mean nothing, but it was clear to anyone who watched the Pats this preseason (which includes yours truly) that Garoppolo had more control of the offense than Mallett. He got the ball out quickly and accurately while Mallett held the ball and looked very hesitant with his reads.
You can't possibly know this to be true and I'm positive that you're just making it up. Are you not familiar with Bill Belichick? Let his QB have no restrictions and then go? You do realize Mallett had twice as many rush yards as Garoppolo in the preseason right? He also rushed for one.
Again you are making assumptions.
I don't know whether Mallett knows the playbook better or not but that's not the issue. His issue is diagnosing and attacking coverages. That much has been very clear all the way back to college. If Garoppolo was confused then he just dumped the ball down, which is what a QB is supposed to do. When Mallett is confused he still pushes the ball to his 1st or 2nd option, which can result in turnovers.
I'm not saying Garoppolo is more talented than Mallett. I'm saying that, if you paid attention, he clearly won the competition for the backup QB job. He showed much more command of the offense, was more poised in the pocket, and was much more accurate.
msr
I have to laugh at those of you who keep saying O'Brien has not hinted at starting Mallet so therefore he is not planning to. Remind me again when we have gotten any straight answers or insight into what O'Brien planned to do before he did it again? I mean as of a day before the trade happened O'Brien said during a press conference "As we sit here right now Keenum makes the 5 man roster" and he already knew the trade was going through.
The Pats have been trying to deal Mallet since last season. And like always what kept him from being dealt is BB was asking too much and nobody was desperate enough to give up so much for someone that would have to learn a new system. But for us he is a perfect fit and he does not have to learn anything but new terminology. BB and BO were playing chess with this trade since O'Brien got the job. BB blinked and BO got his man IMO. I predict we will all know soon enough. I grow tired of this argument. Same nonsense that went on with the Keenum situation, and I would bet it's those same Keenum fans trying their hardest to knock Mallett before he ever even gets a snap.
This thread has just reeked of guys hyping up Mallett because he's wearing a Texans jersey now.
Might want to check your timeline on that. Mallett was a subject of discussion long before he was wearing a Texans jersey.
Might want to check your timeline on that. Mallett was a subject of discussion long before he was wearing a Texans jersey.
Exactly. Not even sure where that comment came from.
I think Mallett was being talked about since OB hiring was announced...Maybe even speculation before that linking the two IF he was hired.
I know that before we traded for Mallett, I said I think if we did he'd be the most talented QB on the roster.
No team can afford letting a franchise QB leave for only a guaranteed 7th rounder. Mallett wouldn't have gotten a huge contract. Most probably not even Fitz money. If the Pats believed someone was gonna give him starting QB type money, they wouldn't have traded him to us for only a guaranteed 7th since they would've gotten a higher compensatory pick.
If the Pats were convinced, that Mallett was their guy, they wouldn't have drafted a QB in the second round and they would've extend Mallett at premium backup QB money. If he wouldn't bite, they'd either get a higher compensatory pick or a better trade offer, than what we gave them.
The reality is: Mallett was a third round pick that hasn't shown anything in preseason or regular season so far. He has talent, that's why we traded for him. But labeling him a franchise QB or even a QB worth starting is way premature and most probably never gonna be true.
anybody else think it's weird there is not a peep about mallett in any interviews with Obrien and godsey? questions about him off limits from reporters?
Quarterbacks Coach George Godsey("on what went into the decision to trade for Ryan Mallett) Any time we make decisions whether it is to release a player or trade a pick for a player or trade for another player for player, its always made with the best interest of the team. What is best for the team? Whats best for the team, one of the things that is best for the team is to have the most competitive roster you can possibly have on a week-to-week basis, on a month-to-month basis, on a year-to-year basis. So any decision thats made as it relates to the roster is always made with the best interest of the team in mind.
(on if Ryan Mallett is the backup quarterback) Yes.
(on how Ryan Mallett is picking things up) The foundation of what he knows is very similar to what we had in the three years in New England. He was drafted in 11 when I was there. We spent the rookie year together, and then I went to Penn State. 12 and 13 he stayed and was attentive in meetings. Its obvious since hes been here. Just the transition of Ryan coming in to this offense, certainly we do things, some things a little bit differently than what they do based on our personnel based on what their personnel is, but the foundation of it is very similar, so hes been able to pick right up.
(on what is different now about Ryan Mallett compared to the season they spent together) Three years older. I believe hes a guy thats worked hard. He understands the pro game better than he did obviously, when he was a rookie. I think hes worked extremely hard. You can tell on things like being in the weight room, hes worked on his accuracy and hes definitely improved in his knowledge of our offense. Thats obvious. Hes a guy that just has to keep working, keep improving and like I said, hes our number two quarterback and its good to have him here.
(on when the team decided to trade for Ryan Mallett) Im not sure. Im not sure. Just when the discussions started we decided that was the best thing for the team.
(on if Ryan Malletts understanding of the offense allowed the team to trade for him this close to the season) It makes it easier. Obviously, when you have a guy that knows the basis of your offense, how to call a play, the cadence, the formations, the motions, the shifts, the different personnel groupings, how we call defense, it makes it a lot easier when you have a guy that you think can help you as a backup quarterback. Thats good.
Were on really our third day of preparation for Washington, and I think as a group obviously, everybody is out there working hard, especially, the quarterbacks trying to get the game plan. I think its important that the whole unit sees the game plan through the same set of eyes and I think thats what were trying for here, and again were on our third day with that process.
(on how his past relationship with Ryan Mallett makes it easier for Ryan) Anytime with any position there is familiarity, but its not only the personality but how you can relate what one system is apples and the other system is oranges and try to put that together into one common language. I think it makes the process a little bit easier.
(on how Ryan Mallett is different now than he was a few years ago) Weve talked about this for a first year quarterback or a second year quarterback, which is where Ryan was when I was in New England until now, I think that through the reps, through constantly studying personnel, I think you improve. From where hes at now from when I was first with him, I think there is an improvement.
(on worrying whether Ryan Mallett would have a grasp of the offense by Week 1) I think anybody that comes into a system within a week before the game there is always that concern. I think thats why we have the C on our chest to coach and try to make it a little bit easier for them.
(on how involved he was in bringing in Ryan Mallett) I mean, my job is the quarterback coach, to basically coach the quarterbacks that are here and to improve them.
...
(on picking up Ryan Mallett and not pushing too much on Tom Savage) I think its back to the whole rookie quarterback conversation. Its not easy to get underneath the center right there and grasp our offense and really any offense within the amount of time that rookie quarterback is asked to do. I think that played a big part in it.
(on the relationships he is building with the quarterbacks) Within the relationship between a coach and a player, I think it has to extend more than just the meeting time. That is one thing that I can say with all three quarterbacks. That a lot of my time isnt just spent in the meeting room with them. Its on the phone, its conversations back and forth that occur throughout the day and not just the time that were actually together.
(on Ryan Malletts maturation from his rookie season) The first thing is you have to be willing to put the time in. Ryan was able to do that than, and obviously that was three years ago. Its about putting the time in now with our system and really trying to catch up almost in a faster format because there is a little bit more you have to teach a rookie quarterback as opposed to a quarterback that maybe has been in the league a little bit.
(on the difficulties for a rookie quarterback) Yeah, I think that is an understatement just as far as, and I think Tom (Savage) can really comment to that, how much of it is really on a rookie quarterback, regardless of whatever system. Youre not only dealing with your own system, but youre dealing with the recognition of personnel defensively and then youre dealing with the recognition of the scheme defensively, which there is a lot of schemes and there is a lot of good coaches. Especially, the coaches were going against this week that have a lot of good defensive schemes that not only fit their personnel, but challenge the offense.
(on a snapshot of some of the work he has been doing with Ryan Mallett compared to the other two quarterbacks) Each quarterback is different. Again, with the coaching of each one of them I think we try to play to each one of their strengths. As much of we can get the reps at a full speed with the personnel that we anticipate being in there, I think we can kind of simplify some things. For example, Ryan being here for only a few short days, I think by game time thats where well have certain, for him his game plan may just be a little shorter than maybe Ryans (Fitzpatrick), but were still not to that point to make that decision.
...
Not going to hear much chatter about the backup QB during the season unless the starter struggles. OB said Fitz graded out 100% in getting us out of/in to the correct plays at the LOS vs. Washington.
There are only two ways we see Mallett.I don't want to see "The Texas Hammer" until he is 100% ready to
go in our scheme.
Not going to hear much chatter about the backup QB during the season unless the starter struggles. OB said Fitz graded out 100% in getting us out of/in to the correct plays at the LOS vs. Washington.
OB said Fitz graded out 100% in getting us out of/in to the correct plays at the LOS vs. Washington.
I'm not going to flat out call OB a liar, but he's lying.
j/k..... however, I don't expect OB to tell us 100% what he's thinking at any time.
BoB lies constantly.
The whole spiel about Martin being the most improved player?
Riiight..
That's why they signed the kid from Tulsa and IMMEDIATELY
had him returning kicks and playing slot -- after 3 days of practice!
I don't mind if a coach keeps things close to the vest (like Gary)
But to flat out bulsht the fan base is annoying to me..
I like a lot of things about the guy, but that ain't one of them.
I don't want to see Jim Adler at QB either, only hope to see Mallet if Fitz struggles.I don't want to see "The Texas Hammer" until he is 100% ready to
go in our scheme.
Fitz has some leash until the guy comes up to speed, and we can't
expect either one of them to be "perfect"
Now, now...BoB lies constantly.
The whole spiel about Martin being the most improved player?
Riiight..
That's why they signed the kid from Tulsa and IMMEDIATELY
had him returning kicks and playing slot -- after 3 days of practice!
I don't mind if a coach keeps things close to the vest (like Gary)
But to flat out bulsht the fan base is annoying to me..
I like a lot of things about the guy, but that ain't one of them.
BoB lies constantly.
The whole spiel about Martin being the most improved player?
Riiight..
That's why they signed the kid from Tulsa and IMMEDIATELY
had him returning kicks and playing slot -- after 3 days of practice!
I don't mind if a coach keeps things close to the vest (like Gary)
But to flat out bulsht the fan base is annoying to me..
I like a lot of things about the guy, but that ain't one of them.
Man, somebody rep this guy...I've tried to get him twice today with no luck.
Lot of speculating going on in this part of your post....
Man, somebody rep this guy...I've tried to get him twice today with no luck.
Lol what's funny is he isn't obligated to tell the fanbase anything.
Man, somebody rep this guy...I've tried to get him twice today with no luck.
Then he should just be tight lipped -- don't shine on crap he knows isn't true.
It's going to get really ugly if he does that when the team hits a
losing streak..
It should be common sense that the chances you get a franchise QB with just a guaranteed 7th rounder are slim to none. Of course, stuff like this does happen - Brady get taken in the 6th round, Wilson in the 4th, Drew Brees was undervalued... but only a guaranteed 7th rounder? That means, that at least 32 teams don't believe he can be a franchise QB. Just common sense.
I am not hating on Mallett. I like him, and I like his potential. As soon as he sees the field I will cheer and await anxious to see, what he is capable of doing. If he turns out to be starting material or even more than that I will be very happy. But it sounds like a lot of people in here have way too high hopes. The chances of Leinart working out here were way higher than the chances of Mallett working out...
Which of these 32 teams didn't already have a starter in place or a top draft pick with one foot on the field?
TB? StL after Bradford? Now besides them, none of the others are going to want to give up a legitimately valuable draft pick for a bonus commodity.
I think you're overestimating the market to throw in a big offer for a kid who wants a shot to start relatively soon and wants to be paid like it. The same reasons NE knew they had to look to go younger and cheaper at QB2 and so drafted Garoppolo. He was a fit for us in a buyer's market and we scooped him, it's pretty simple really.
Like I said, I didn't mean he doesn't have talent. I am just saying when you get a QB with a 7th round pick in about 99,5% of times he won't ever become a valuable starter. There are a lot of teams with no franchise QB and a lot of teams that could use an upgrade. Even for teams like the Cowboys, the Jets or the Titans it would be a no brainer to give up a 7th round pick for a guy that could be a franchise QB. Look at the Seahawks, they didn't have a QB so they signed a "big" FA and drafted one. If any team had the illusion of Mallett being a great starter for them, they would have easily offered a little more than what we did.
Franchise QBs are hard to come by. I'd say only perhaps 15 fanbases are really comfortable with their QB. Most of these QBs were drafted high or created some buzz when they entered the league. All we have from Mallett are unimpressive preseason tape (which doesnt mean too much) and unimpressive 4 NFL passes.
Even for teams like the Cowboys, the Jets or the Titans it would be a no brainer to give up a 7th round pick for a guy that could be a franchise QB.