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Ideal Scenarios

Number19

Hall of Fame
One question going around the board is: do we draft a QB with our top pick or do we trade down, picking up a QB lower in the draft, in rounds two or three? I offer the suggestion that we wait until 2015 to pick up our QB of the future. With this as a possibility, here is one "Ideal Scenario".


1) Hire Mike Munchak as OL coach. From what I've read, Munchak has a reputation of coaching up his players to perform beyond expectations and abilities. Taking this into account; and keeping Myers, Brooks, Brown, Quessenberry and Williams as a core, we can go into the draft with an eye toward drafting one player with a high pick.

2) For BoB to spend many sleepless nights analyzing Keenum and Yates and finding enough that he thinks, with a full off season, he can work with what the team already has. In making this decision, what must be evaluated is whether a QB drafted in the mid-rounds is much of an improvement over these two. If he doesn't much like what he sees, that means, of course, we must address the position higher in the draft.

3) For a trade with Cleveland to materialize and we end up with another first this year and a first next year.

4) For two of the three premium QB's, and Clowney, to be taken in the first three picks; and for a team at the bottom of the top 10 to give up a second for pick #4.

5) We end up with two #1's and two high #2's this year and an extra #1 next year.

6) With these four picks, we pick up our OL'man and three defensive players.

7) After training camp, if not earlier, we pick up a veteran QB, no more than a two year contract. Our expectations for the season is to win 6-8 games with either Keenum or Yates at QB ( or the veteran ), which should be possible with our weak schedule. Using this draft to upgrade the overall talent on defense and offense, BoB now has a full year to evaluate Case and TJ within his offense and, if then necessary, using our two, first round, picks in 2015 to draft our QB.

In my mind, the key to this scenario is whether Case, or TJ, bring as much to the table as any possibility in the mid-rounds of this year's draft. TJ is your larger, pocket passer and Case is your spread offense smaller, running QB. Both are young QB's without much playing time; and the playing time they do have was under difficult mid-season changes. So the decision facing BoB is first, do we take a QB with 1-1; and if we decide not to, how to then evaluate Case and TJ against the other possibilities. The only way to make this decision is film room time - lots of film room time.
 
Neither QB is capable of starting and winning more than they lose. At some point in the future they may be but not now and neither of them have a high ceiling. Coming into last season case was an unknown. Now he is a known. If we are rebuilding and looking for a warm body for a year fine but this team has playoff aspirations. If any QB on our roster is our starter next year it is a disaster.

Mike
 
Not directed at you, but as a springboard:

Can we please eliminate all the Bob stuff? It's confusing having it all over the MB about both the coach and owner with umpteen different spellings to boot.

To illustrate - BoB FYI was steelb's slam at McNair for being cheap.
 
My ideal scenario is at hand. Next football season I'll be retired and watching at my leisure. No more b!tching about late night games (like we'll have any) because they won't matter.

152 days and counting beyoutches. :lol:
 
Ideal scenario- we will never see anything Denver related in Houston ever again!!! Can I get a high five?!
 
Neither QB is capable of starting and winning more than they lose. At some point in the future they may be but not now and neither of them have a high ceiling. Coming into last season case was an unknown. Now he is a known. If we are rebuilding and looking for a warm body for a year fine but this team has playoff aspirations. If any QB on our roster is our starter next year it is a disaster.

Mike

Yep. The young guns should be able to win without help, right? They can pass the ball, catch the ball, and run away from the sieve which was our oline. I gotcha. No help required.
 
Not directed at you, but as a springboard:

Can we please eliminate all the Bob stuff? It's confusing having it all over the MB about both the coach and owner with umpteen different spellings to boot.

To illustrate - BoB FYI was steelb's slam at McNair for being cheap.

But BO would be confusing with an OBAMANATION with the same initials.

BM isn't really a good thing to call our owner unless he starts wearing Jersey number 2.

I'll go along with BOB for the coach and Bob for the owner. Fair enough?
 
But BO would be confusing with an OBAMANATION with the same initials.

BM isn't really a good thing to call our owner unless he starts wearing Jersey number 2.

I'll go along with BOB for the coach and Bob for the owner. Fair enough?

Marshall!!!! You made the switch to Texans Talk too?!.
 
...this team has playoff aspirations...
Mike
IMO, you are wrong. Next year's team isn't even assembled yet, so it is flat out impossible for "it" to have any kind of expectations. Now, if you mean "you" have playoff aspirations for the team next season, IMO, you are setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. Of course, you may be speaking only in hypotheticals, in which case all 32 teams have playoff aspirations. But realistically, significant improvement is what should be expected, or as I previously stated, 6 to 8 wins. We may do better, but, as fans, it should not be realistically expected. And I also think that O'Brian, and his future staff, will be much more qualified to determine what he can accomplish with T.J. and Case.

If we use the 1-1 on a QB, I have no doubts that this player will perform at a higher level than either Keenum or Yates. But I wouldn't bet the farm that this would hold true for a player selected in the mid-rounds.
Yeah, that would approach what I'd pretty much call ideal... :ahhaha:
Although realistically the chance of the two trade down is unlikely to happen, it is not at all uncommon. If we can get that first trade with Cleveland, I'd definitely be looking for that second trade to move a few spots lower in exchange for another two. If we trade the 1-1, to get value, we absolutely will get at a minimum a one and a two. A one next year, in trade value, is counted as a two this year, so an extra one this year and a one next year is value for value. Trading from #4 to #9 is worth a two; so that is how I arrived at my picks. Really, if the cards fell right, not that hard to see happening.

The only real question mark is how O'Brian evaluates Keenum and Yates. My personal opinion is that Keenum has the higher chance of sticking with the team. But Kubiak saw something to draft TJ in the 5th, so maybe a new coach and a new system would give TJ a new chance.
 
Can we please eliminate all the Bob stuff? It's confusing having it all over the MB about both the coach and owner with umpteen different spellings to boot.
Agree.

O'Brien's nickname has been OB (O'Bie) or Billy. OB is shortest/easiest for me.
 
We draft Teddy, he becomes an elite QB a la Rodgers and thus become contenders for over a decade.
Fair answer and in agreement with many. But what are your expectations, under this scenario, for the defense. You do agree that to be contenders we do need a fairly good defense? We have one, maybe two holes to address on offense, which you've addressed. But we have as many as 6 or 8 holes to address on defense. What's your answer to this?
 
I got an infraction for talking smack about the Colts. I guess we should all love other teams especially our rivals.

Land of misfit Posters here. I left there after they banned Texian for expressing his opinion, and maybe some other things. Havent gone back since, not even to " check things out"
 
IMO, you are wrong. Next year's team isn't even assembled yet, so it is flat out impossible for "it" to have any kind of expectations. Now, if you mean "you" have playoff aspirations for the team next season, IMO, you are setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. Of course, you may be speaking only in hypotheticals, in which case all 32 teams have playoff aspirations. But realistically, significant improvement is what should be expected, or as I previously stated, 6 to 8 wins. We may do better, but, as fans, it should not be realistically expected. And I also think that O'Brian, and his future staff, will be much more qualified to determine what he can accomplish with T.J. and Case.

If we use the 1-1 on a QB, I have no doubts that this player will perform at a higher level than either Keenum or Yates. But I wouldn't bet the farm that this would hold true for a player selected in the mid-rounds.
Although realistically the chance of the two trade down is unlikely to happen, it is not at all uncommon. If we can get that first trade with Cleveland, I'd definitely be looking for that second trade to move a few spots lower in exchange for another two. If we trade the 1-1, to get value, we absolutely will get at a minimum a one and a two. A one next year, in trade value, is counted as a two this year, so an extra one this year and a one next year is value for value. Trading from #4 to #9 is worth a two; so that is how I arrived at my picks. Really, if the cards fell right, not that hard to see happening.

The only real question mark is how O'Brian evaluates Keenum and Yates. My personal opinion is that Keenum has the higher chance of sticking with the team. But Kubiak saw something to draft TJ in the 5th, so maybe a new coach and a new system would give TJ a new chance.
You might be interested in my mock draft in that forum presented as BADBOY's January mock. I have been talking about a trade with Browns for some time and offer a second trade also. Appreciate the thought you put into your thread POV.
 
Land of misfit Posters here. I left there after they banned Texian for expressing his opinion, and maybe some other things. Havent gone back since, not even to " check things out"

The other board has become intellectually incestuous about what can and cannot be the belief of it's posters. God cannot be mentioned, even in passing. But drunkenness and debauchery is promoted ceaselessly.

If you have a political opinion, it better be progressive or your toast.

I actually prefer this board. The other was just convenient with links from NFL.com.
 
Fair answer and in agreement with many. But what are your expectations, under this scenario, for the defense. You do agree that to be contenders we do need a fairly good defense? We have one, maybe two holes to address on offense, which you've addressed. But we have as many as 6 or 8 holes to address on defense. What's your answer to this?

I'm not Allstar but...

Our defense was not that bad except in terms of forcing turnovers and performing in the red zone. So I'm not buying that it needs that many "fixes" despite what a lot of people may think.

We can go with KJ, JJo, Danieal, and Swearinger and hopefully bring along some young talent. Hopefully, a change in scheme will make some of the depth guys better or we'll have to get some more depth guys (Harris, Keo, Buoye, Pleasant, etc.)

Our outside guys are not great. Hopefully, we can nab someone like a Worilds in free agency, draft a guy to replace Reed or Mercilus, OR one of those guys (including Trevardo Williams) develops.

Our inside backers... well... see... we've got Cushing and then we've got depth. We need another starter there, afaic.

We need a big guy in the middle and we may need to swap out our current crop of DEs for two gappers.

But the responsibilities of the front 7 might change dramatically. Yes, Crennel has been known to favor a more classic 3-4 but he's also implemented a 4-3. I have a feeling he's going to take a look at the personnel we have, see how many picks he can get, ask for a FA or two, and then implement some sort of hybrid to take advantage of everyone's strengths.
 
I'm not Allstar but...

Our defense was not that bad except in terms of forcing turnovers and performing in the red zone. So I'm not buying that it needs that many "fixes" despite what a lot of people may think.

We can go with KJ, JJo, Danieal, and Swearinger and hopefully bring along some young talent. Hopefully, a change in scheme will make some of the depth guys better or we'll have to get some more depth guys (Harris, Keo, Buoye, Pleasant, etc.)

Our outside guys are not great. Hopefully, we can nab someone like a Worilds in free agency, draft a guy to replace Reed or Mercilus, OR one of those guys (including Trevardo Williams) develops.

Our inside backers... well... see... we've got Cushing and then we've got depth. We need another starter there, afaic.

We need a big guy in the middle and we may need to swap out our current crop of DEs for two gappers.

But the responsibilities of the front 7 might change dramatically. Yes, Crennel has been known to favor a more classic 3-4 but he's also implemented a 4-3. I have a feeling he's going to take a look at the personnel we have, see how many picks he can get, ask for a FA or two, and then implement some sort of hybrid to take advantage of everyone's strengths.
I'm not quite as satisfied with our defensive backs. I saw too many deep balls being given up. But I do agree that fixing our pass rush may help alleviate this problem. And maybe new coaching might help the cover skills.

I agree that the players named form a good core to bring back. I still think we need at least one safety and one CB.

We need an OLB and an ILB. Maybe Reed moves inside.

And I agree, the big hole we need to address is the big guy in the middle of the DL.

But I think you overlooked replacing Antonio Smith. Do you expect him back? Maybe Crick replaces him, but I think we still need another player here.

So I've got six holes that need addressing, at a minimum. Some of these may be addressed in free agency, as you say. I don't think we are that much in disagreement.

It's just that I'd address these with quality draft picks. By that, I mean taken in the first three rounds. Maybe the forth. But this is more holes than we have picks to fill.

So when you write, "... I have a feeling he's going to take a look at the personnel we have, see how many picks he can get, ask for a FA or two, and then implement some sort of hybrid to take advantage of everyone's strengths...", I'm in total agreement.

I'm just thinking that two quality draft picks doesn't do it.
 
Not directed at you, but as a springboard:

Can we please eliminate all the Bob stuff? It's confusing having it all over the MB about both the coach and owner with umpteen different spellings to boot.

To illustrate - BoB FYI was steelb's slam at McNair for being cheap.

sounds like the "official" boards with all these bs rules.
 
I'm not quite as satisfied with our defensive backs. I saw too many deep balls being given up. But I do agree that fixing our pass rush may help alleviate this problem. And maybe new coaching might help the cover skills.

I agree that the players named form a good core to bring back. I still think we need at least one safety and one CB.

We need an OLB and an ILB. Maybe Reed moves inside.

And I agree, the big hole we need to address is the big guy in the middle of the DL.

But I think you overlooked replacing Antonio Smith. Do you expect him back? Maybe Crick replaces him, but I think we still need another player here.

So I've got six holes that need addressing, at a minimum. Some of these may be addressed in free agency, as you say. I don't think we are that much in disagreement.

It's just that I'd address these with quality draft picks. By that, I mean taken in the first three rounds. Maybe the forth. But this is more holes than we have picks to fill.

So when you write, "... I have a feeling he's going to take a look at the personnel we have, see how many picks he can get, ask for a FA or two, and then implement some sort of hybrid to take advantage of everyone's strengths...", I'm in total agreement.

I'm just thinking that two quality draft picks doesn't do it.

The DB's will do a lot better when they're not asked to play man every down.
 
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Compare this place to the other board?

You frikkin kidding me?

Well complaining about a nickname for someone is kinda stupid. If you don't like it cool, but don't try to enforce or push users into calling people something else. BOB is OBriens name even on the Penn St forums, so its not that big a deal.
 
Well complaining about a nickname for someone is kinda stupid. If you don't like it cool, but don't try to enforce or push users into calling people something else. BOB is OBriens name even on the Penn St forums, so its not that big a deal.

He asked, not threatened.

Show respect or don't or you can be an a$$hole about it.

I don't like it either, confuses the $hit out of me because we have been calling McNair (BoB) for years.
 
He asked, not threatened.

Show respect or don't or you can be an a$$hole about it.

I don't like it either, confuses the $hit out of me because we have been calling McNair (BoB) for years.

Well you know what they say about a-holes. You need em' around to keep **** flowing :kitten:
 
I wasn't given a choice after the Mods went on a hissy fit.

I got banned for quoting a moderator's post and then using his favorite words "Don't discuss non-Texans in the Bullpen." He discusses non-Texan in the Bullpen, but I was banned for "moderator abuse" for saying what he said every day. LOL. This board is 100x better.
 
Basically, what I'm reading, between the off topic comments, is that we bring in new coaches and a new defense.

Defensively, we bring in a quality FA, and several lower cost FA's. Then maybe take the big guy in a later round, maybe the 4th or 5th. And we address two defensive spots in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

We draft a QB with 1-1.

We go with our current offensive linemen and maybe bring in an affordable FA or two.
 
Not directed at you, but as a springboard:

Can we please eliminate all the Bob stuff? It's confusing having it all over the MB about both the coach and owner with umpteen different spellings to boot.

To illustrate - BoB FYI was steelb's slam at McNair for being cheap.

Meh, I prefer ByOB!!:ahhaha:
 
I got banned for quoting a moderator's post and then using his favorite words "Don't discuss non-Texans in the Bullpen." He discusses non-Texan in the Bullpen, but I was banned for "moderator abuse" for saying what he said every day. LOL. This board is 100x better.
I, among many others, am a refugee from that board, where the troll-like moderators shut down my IP address so that I can't even read the posts without using an alternate internet provider.
 
Ideal scenario we have 7 picks, they all become probowlers as rookies, go undefeated, win the Super Bowl and in his downtime JJ Watt finds the cure for cancer.
 
Ideal scenario..........nfc champ forfeits its superbowl bid vs the texans cause the texans have outscored their opponents 9 million to zero
 
So many folks complaining about the "official" board and how good this one is. I agree with both but would like to point out this board uses donations to keep "our" board trucking and allowing Hook'em Horns to do what he needs. So put your money where your mouth is (I say pleasantly). Let's prove we enjoy opportunity to come here and do our thing.
 
I don`t understand the logic of waiting for our QB till next season. I don`t think McNair or O`Brien will be happy with a 3 win season or worse. Yet, if we finish any better, we probably have no chance at a top 3 pick. Now if the QBs in next years draft are as good as the people who want us to wait think are, then we have no real chance to get them.

Of course, we might get one with giving up on basically our whole draft and "overpaying" heavily for him. But even then, there is no guarantee that QB actually lives up to his projected potential.

Now this year we can get the best QB of this class basically for free, because we already own the first pick. Of course, we might get a great offer for that pick, but if we are at all comfortable with any of the QBs available I believe you have to take him - because we might not have a chance to get another top rated QB in the near future.

Ideal scenario? We draft a QB and he fulfills his potential.
 
BILL is going to figure out which QB he likes the most in this draft, someone he will be able to work with year 1.. we have the running game to back the QB up with foster healthy (i do believe he will come back healthy)

If there is no clear cut QB BILL likes then I do see us trading back a couple slots and taking a QB there...

And all people are saying that no RBS will go in round 1 so i wouldn't mind taking the best available.. our defense needs some fixing but lets just keep getting explosive on offense
 
Ideal scenarios:

1. O'Brien becomes the best HC the Texans ever had.

2. O'Brien can put together the best staff the Texans ever did.

3. O'Brien is the best talent evaluator the Texans ever had he can influence the GM and the scouting department to find him the right guys for the team.

None of us will have anything to worry about; we'll just enjoy watching football.
:ahhaha:
 
You have it wrong. The logic is not to draft a QB next year; it's whether to trade down from our 1-1 pick, to acquire additional picks to upgrade our overall talent, particularly on defense.

Acquiring our QB next year is only one course of action in the trade down scenario, and is dependent upon two factors; 1) acquiring an additional #1 pick for 2015, to be used with our own #1 pick, to trade up in the 2015 draft; and 2) O'Brien evaluating Keenum and Tate and concluding he can win with one or the other.

Unfortunately, O'Brien will not have the opportunity for on field evaluation, so this decision must be based solely on film study.

There is another branch to the trade down scenario where we might acquire a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round rather than waiting until next year.

The logic of trading down is also dependent upon the coaching staff evaluating our defensive talent and its fit within the new defensive scheme and coming to the conclusion that the best course of action is to upgrade our defensive talent.
 
One question going around the board is: do we draft a QB with our top pick or do we trade down, picking up a QB lower in the draft, in rounds two or three? I offer the suggestion that we wait until 2015 to pick up our QB of the future. With this as a possibility, here is one "Ideal Scenario".

I don't have the patience to wait another year for a QB when we are in position right now to pick a long term solution at the position nor do I have the patience to move back twice in this draft .... essentially pissing away the season muddling around with Case and Yates @ QB. I want to see a commitment to winning - Not losing.

Coaching changes aside , I think the ideal situation is to move back with Cleveland in exchange for 4 , 25, 69 + a future first or 4 , 25 & 36 in this draft.
You also need one of Clowney or Matthews taken in those first three picks leaving you one of Bortles , Bridgewater & Manziel at the 4th pick - I'd be happy with any of the three ....and would be content with taking the leftovers for the above compensation.

With those other picks , I'd take a TE , DE & RT in no specific order , the order & names would be dependent upon which of the above compensation packages were offered / accepted.

Think of coming out of this draft with one of Bortles , Bridgewater or Manziel and the following in the first three rounds :

25 - Cyrus Kouandjio or Antonio Richardson
33 - Trent Murphy
36 - Jace Amaro
65 - Shane Skov or E.J. Gaines


25 - Cyrus Kouandjio or Antonio Richardson
33 - Trent Murphy
65 - Arthur Lynch
69 - Shane Skov or E.J. Gaines
+ next years #1.


That sure solves a lot of the problems this team has quickly.
69
 
You have it wrong. The logic is not to draft a QB next year; it's whether to trade down from our 1-1 pick, to acquire additional picks to upgrade our overall talent, particularly on defense.

Acquiring our QB next year is only one course of action in the trade down scenario, and is dependent upon two factors; 1) acquiring an additional #1 pick for 2015, to be used with our own #1 pick, to trade up in the 2015 draft; and 2) O'Brien evaluating Keenum and Tate and concluding he can win with one or the other.

Unfortunately, O'Brien will not have the opportunity for on field evaluation, so this decision must be based solely on film study.

There is another branch to the trade down scenario where we might acquire a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round rather than waiting until next year.

The logic of trading down is also dependent upon the coaching staff evaluating our defensive talent and its fit within the new defensive scheme and coming to the conclusion that the best course of action is to upgrade our defensive talent.

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