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Lions interested in Glover Quin *UPDATE* Signed by Lions

The Lions don't have a lot of cap room. What is this guy talking about?

All costs? No, I don't think Quin should be kept regardless of what stupid contract he might get offered. He's like the 7th best player on the defense. Nice to keep, but hardly irreplaceable.
 
I REALLY hope we can keep Quin, dude is damn good Safety. He is a vital player to this D, and comes to play with intensity every game.
 
steelbtexan said:
Wilson/Phillips/Delmas anyone?

The chickens are coming home to roost Slick Rick.
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haha always got something negative to say about the FO or the owner. Typical.

Anwyay, yes, Glover Quin is going to have some interest around the league, but there are a lot of guys (now that Mikell was cut too) that are decent to good safeties that are going to be on the market. (Wilson I believe is signed iwth the TItans, would have to look that up.) If Quin does leave, I'm willing to wait and see how more of FA plays out before I start talking with broad metaphors that could mean anything (chickens coming home to roost I don't even know wtf that could be a reference to).
 
Norg said:
arent we lined up to take one of the best safties in the draft ..???
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We will be in trouble if we expect a rookie safety to replace Quinn.

I hope the Texans learned that lesson with their right side of the line. Even if a vet like Winston is slightly above average, he's likely better than the inexperienced rookie you are going to throw out there into the fire.

The great teams don't rely on their rookies to make big impact their rookie season.

I hope we keep Quinn, but at a reasonable price
 
Lucky said:
He's like the 7th best player on the defense. Nice to keep, but hardly irreplaceable.
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Help me out with this.

  1. Watt
  2. Cushing
  3. Smith
  4. Kjax

At least for 2012 I don't think another player outplayed Quin on our defense.


I do agree that he's not an "at all cost" player. We screwed the pooch & overpaid for Manning (I think), but that's free agency & that's what free agency is about. Over paying for Quin isn't going to fix that.
 
thunderkyss said:
Help me out with this.

  1. Watt
  2. Cushing
  3. Smith
  4. Kjax

At least for 2012 I don't think another player outplayed Quin on our defense.


I do agree that he's not an "at all cost" player. We screwed the pooch & overpaid for Manning (I think), but that's free agency & that's what free agency is about. Over paying for Quin isn't going to fix that.
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  1. Watt
  2. Cushing*
  3. Smith (debatable)
  4. JJo (debatable)
  5. Kjax
  6. Quin

You could argue that Manning is better ... or not ... which would put Quin #7.


I really hope he sticks around for a fair deal for both sides, what that turns out to be is up for debate tho I think somewhere in the 3-4m range might get it done.
 
We need to beef up our front seven in this draft. We could use an upgrade at nose tackle, another starter at inside linebacker (next to Cushing), and a future upgrade at right end (the ninja is aging). Let's face it guys, we could have Pee Wee Herman starting in the secondary and he would still look good if our front seven was dominating. We need a better pass rush from our front seven, not just a one-man show out of J.J. Watt.
 
Daniel Jeremiah is usually reliable. He's one of the few in sports media whose opinion I regard highly.

But I think he's off on this one because of the Lion's cap space. I'll be worried when someone from Tampa Bay or the 49er's start calling.
 
ASidd_1990 said:
Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks


https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/311309181565169665

Losing Quin would be a big blow to our secondary. Hope management keeps him at all costs.

Thoughts?
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We want to keep him, but not at any cost. I have no idea what he wants, but it looks like he didn't like our offer.

If I've learned anything is that we seem to give an offer that we think is fair for the player and the team and then let him look around. He Quin gets better than what we offer we'll find someone else.

It could be like Brisiel. Everyone would have liked him back, but not at the $$ that Oakland gave him. If someone give Quin a 4 year $20-$25 million dollar contract he's leaving.

We have more important players on the team that are making too much money to shell out that much for Quin.
 
fiasco west said:
We will be in trouble if we expect a rookie safety to replace Quinn.

I hope the Texans learned that lesson with their right side of the line. Even if a vet like Winston is slightly above average, he's likely better than the inexperienced rookie you are going to throw out there into the fire.

The great teams don't rely on their rookies to make big impact their rookie season.

I hope we keep Quinn, but at a reasonable price
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With Manning, JJo, and KJax back there I think we can play a rookie safety and be in good shape. Well, it would depend on who the safety is. If it's a 6th round pick he might struggle more than someone like Vaccaro. I wouldn't mind him back there, but I'm afraid his off the field issues would keep him from being considered.
 
TexanBacker93 said:
With Manning, JJo, and KJax back there I think we can play a rookie safety and be in good shape. Well, it would depend on who the safety is. If it's a 6th round pick he might struggle more than someone like Vaccaro. I wouldn't mind him back there, but I'm afraid his off the field issues would keep him from being considered.
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Vacarro only had a couple of minor incidents off the field. He got into a bit of a scuffle during an intramural basketball game, and he didn't leave a pizza joint when asked. But he's a top 20 pick anyway. Someone like Swearinger is more realitic.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
We need to beef up our front seven in this draft. We could use an upgrade at nose tackle, another starter at inside linebacker (next to Cushing), and a future upgrade at right end (the ninja is aging). Let's face it guys, we could have Pee Wee Herman starting in the secondary and he would still look good if our front seven was dominating. We need a better pass rush from our front seven, not just a one-man show out of J.J. Watt.
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I dunno man, Pee Wee Herman had his moments, but when it comes to the 4th quarter, I get the feeling that he will pull out at the most inopportune time.
 
TexanBacker93 said:
With Manning, JJo, and KJax back there I think we can play a rookie safety and be in good shape. Well, it would depend on who the safety is. If it's a 6th round pick he might struggle more than someone like Vaccaro. I wouldn't mind him back there, but I'm afraid his off the field issues would keep him from being considered.
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Not unless the rookie is ready to man up against NFL slot receivers and TEs right away . He will also have to play Quin's role in nickel and dime situations, which is unorthodox. He also needs to be a solid tackler considering how many TD saving tackles Quin made from that position.

This whole "Quin is not that important or good" attitude is perplexing, almost funny.

I'd like to hear the 6 or 7 defenders that are more important to the Texans than Quin. I'm not talking about Antonio Smith, a guy at the end of his career. That's not comparable to how important Quin can be if signed to a new contract. I certainly wouldn't pay a guy like Smith big money right now if he were an UFA. Quin still has alot of football left in him. So, you have Watt and Cushing that are more important than Quin to our future, name some more. I'll give you JJo too.
 
Brisco_County said:
Vacarro only had a couple of minor incidents off the field. He got into a bit of a scuffle during an intramural basketball game, and he didn't leave a pizza joint when asked. But he's a top 20 pick anyway. Someone like Swearinger is more realitic.
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I have to say no to Vacarro in the first.
He made some good plays within the scheme and he's a hard-nose player..

But you need to be an impact player to a certain degree as a first rounder.
IMO, drafting him in the first (depending on the spot) is like paying Quin $3.5-4.5M a year.

Neither is the guy you need to get over the hump, even though they are good players.
 
TexanBacker93 said:
With Manning, JJo, and KJax back there I think we can play a rookie safety and be in good shape. Well, it would depend on who the safety is. If it's a 6th round pick he might struggle more than someone like Vaccaro. I wouldn't mind him back there, but I'm afraid his off the field issues would keep him from being considered.
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All 3 of these should be even better this season and I agree the right rookie will be okay. Phillips is good at adjusting. Might not be used at LB as Quin was on occasion but should be ok. Deep draft especially if CBs that can convert are counted. I still think Quin is a Texan this year.

TJ McDonald- 4th
Josh Evans -4th
Terry Hawthorne (CB)- 4th

Zeke Motta - 5TH
 
TexansSeminole said:
Not unless the rookie is ready to man up against NFL slot receivers and TEs right away . He will also have to play Quin's role in nickel and dime situations, which is unorthodox. He also needs to be a solid tackler considering how many TD saving tackles Quin made from that position.

This whole "Quin is not that important or good" attitude is perplexing, almost funny.

I'd like to hear the 6 or 7 defenders that are more important to the Texans than Quin. I'm not talking about Antonio Smith, a guy at the end of his career. That's not comparable to how important Quin can be if signed to a new contract. I certainly wouldn't pay a guy like Smith big money right now if he were an UFA. Quin still has alot of football left in him. So, you have Watt and Cushing that are more important than Quin to our future, name some more. I'll give you JJo too.
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Could Brandon Harris or Roc Carmichael take Quin's spot? Antonio Smith has 2-3 more years and there has been frequent talk on this MB about reworking his contract and extend.
 
badboy said:
All 3 of these should be even better this season and I agree the right rookie will be okay. Phillips is good at adjusting. Might not be used at LB as Quin was on occasion but should be ok. Deep draft especially if CBs that can convert are counted. I still think Quin is a Texan this year.

TJ McDonald- 4th
Josh Evans -4th
Terry Hawthorne (CB)- 4th

Zeke Motta - 5TH
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No, that actually won't be ok. When Quin moves into that position in nickel and dime, it is because that is the only way we can matchup with teams that spread out defenses. It barely works as is, because Wade Phillips doesn't want to come off his man scheme. So, no, that will not work. We will need two players to replace Quin if said rookie can't fill that role. It's either that or change the scheme, which is not going to happen.
 
badboy said:
Could Brandon Harris or Roc Carmichael take Quin's spot? Antonio Smith has 2-3 more years and there has been frequent talk on this MB about reworking his contract and extend.
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Hell no they can't fill any of his roles. Roc doesn't even touch the field in between the lines. Harris is not very good as he has shown. We don't have anyone on the roster that can do it or you would have seen them do it.

I mean, I suppose they "could," but we would suck.

Also, Smith is 31, Quin is 27. Quin is certainly worth more, ALOT more.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Not unless the rookie is ready to man up against NFL slot receivers and TEs right away . He will also have to play Quin's role in nickel and dime situations, which is unorthodox. He also needs to be a solid tackler considering how many TD saving tackles Quin made from that position.

This whole "Quin is not that important or good" attitude is perplexing, almost funny.

I'd like to hear the 6 or 7 defenders that are more important to the Texans than Quin. I'm not talking about Antonio Smith, a guy at the end of his career. That's not comparable to how important Quin can be if signed to a new contract. I certainly wouldn't pay a guy like Smith big money right now if he were an UFA. Quin still has alot of football left in him. So, you have Watt and Cushing that are more important than Quin to our future, name some more. I'll give you JJo too.
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I think Quin is good. I think he's important. What he is, IMO, is replaceable if needed. I think he's one of the top 5 defensive players on the team. I want him back in Houston, but we can't do it at a risk of not being able to extend Cushing or pay Watt when that comes time.

I think you are right that in our D the safety is asked to do more than in other defenses. Still, there have been safeties coming out of college that succeeded as rookies. At equal or even similar costs, I'd rather have Quin than any rookie right now, but that won't happen.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Hell no they can't fill any of his roles. Roc doesn't even touch the field in between the lines. Harris is not very good as he has shown. We don't have anyone on the roster that can do it or you would have seen them do it.

I mean, I suppose they "could," but we would suck.

Also, Smith is 31, Quin is 27. Quin is certainly worth more, ALOT more.
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Heh not sure about 'ALOT'. Other than Watt, Smith was the only pressure we had and that helps the coverage. Smith was graded 6th among 3-4 DE's on PFF, was second amongst them in QB hurries. Quin has his worth and most folks want him back. They are just saying it isn't like he is a top notch player that can't be replaced so they won't go running around like mad men if he isn't retained at some ridiculous amount of money. It's all about keeping it reasonable.

Put it like this...Quin allowed a QB rating of 95.9 and the 3rd most touchdowns allowed by safeties last year. Is that 'can't miss talent?' type of numbers where you break your bank? Course not. Solid but not exceptional.
 
TexanBacker93 said:
I think Quin is good. I think he's important. What he is, IMO, is replaceable if needed. I think he's one of the top 5 defensive players on the team. I want him back in Houston, but we can't do it at a risk of not being able to extend Cushing or pay Watt when that comes time.

I think you are right that in our D the safety is asked to do more than in other defenses. Still, there have been safeties coming out of college that succeeded as rookies. At equal or even similar costs, I'd rather have Quin than any rookie right now, but that won't happen.
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Everybody is replaceable. It won't be easy to replace Quin and all the roles he plays for the team. Quin does way more for the team than Manning, he is much more versatile.
 
TexansSeminole said:
No, that actually won't be ok. When Quin moves into that position in nickel and dime, it is because that is the only way we can matchup with teams that spread out defenses. It barely works as is, because Wade Phillips doesn't want to come off his man scheme. So, no, that will not work. We will need two players to replace Quin if said rookie can't fill that role. It's either that or change the scheme, which is not going to happen.
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My understanding is Quin only moved into that role when the LBs fell apart. It is not the scheme Wade prefer to run frequently. Man is good so let's not knock Phillips for that (if you were). ANother LB in draft that can cover will work.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Hell no they can't fill any of his roles. Roc doesn't even touch the field in between the lines. Harris is not very good as he has shown. We don't have anyone on the roster that can do it or you would have seen them do it.

I mean, I suppose they "could," but we would suck.

Also, Smith is 31, Quin is 27. Quin is certainly worth more, ALOT more.
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Kubiak stated before season ended that Harris had improved and had to get his timing in game down. We need to allow both him and Carmichael same time we allowed KJ to develop. Both were getting reps at corner not safety so I think it is possible if we draft another LB that can cover.
 
deucetx said:
Heh not sure about 'ALOT'. Other than Watt, Smith was the only pressure we had and that helps the coverage. Smith was graded 6th among 3-4 DE's on PFF, was second amongst them in QB hurries. Quin has his worth and most folks want him back. They are just saying it isn't like he is a top notch player that can't be replaced so they won't go running around like mad men if he isn't retained at some ridiculous amount of money. It's all about keeping it reasonable.

Put it like this...Quin allowed a QB rating of 95.9 and the 3rd most touchdowns allowed by safeties last year. Is that 'can't miss talent?' type of numbers where you break your bank? Course not. Solid but not exceptional.
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Certainly you would want him at a fair value. The question is what are we prepared to offer him and what is he prepared to sign for. We have no idea what those numbers are.

Also how does anybody go about assigning a QB rating that was allowed by one defensive player??? That's impossible to do. How do they determine that he allowed the TD and not somebody else. We have already had this discussion on silly stats a million times. A QB rating allowed assigned to a defensive player? Seriously?

The reality of the NFL is that nearly nobody is paid at fair value. Some players are overpaid due to a lack of available options, or because he provides something to your defense that would be even more expensive to replicate with other players. Quin provides us with a safety that can man up on the slot and TEs effectively and can play the run well. Name me some guys in free agency or through the draft that can do it as well as him.

I'll save you some time and tell you that there aren't any that will sign for lower than Quin and we can't afford a slip in production. Safety play is the most important thing in THIS Wade defense outside of pass rush. You start putting Manning or a less competent man cover safety in Quin's role and we are going to get SMASHED by the likes of the Patriots and other spread offenses. Just warning you now.
 
badboy said:
Kubiak stated before season ended that Harris had improved and had to get his timing in game down. We need to allow both him and Carmichael same time we allowed KJ to develop. Both were getting reps at corner not safety so I think it is possible if we draft another LB that can cover.
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The position that Quin was put in in nickel and dime situations is extremely difficult to handle. He could barely do it and he is actually good at it. There aren't many safeties in the NFL that can do all the things he did successfully. Center fielders as safeties don't work in that role. It takes a specific skill set. There isn't a linebacker in the league that could play that position successfully. Not one.

Bottom line is if we expect to keep Wade and this scheme, this position is very important and shouldn't be taken lightly, as if we can get quality play there at a low price. That's not reality.
 
badboy said:
My understanding is Quin only moved into that role when the LBs fell apart. It is not the scheme Wade prefer to run frequently. Man is good so let's not knock Phillips for that (if you were). ANother LB in draft that can cover will work.
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No, he was put in the position because its impossible for a linebacker of 240 plus pounds to play that position effectively. He has been doing it since Wade arrived.

badboy said:
Kubiak stated before season ended that Harris had improved and had to get his timing in game down. We need to allow both him and Carmichael same time we allowed KJ to develop. Both were getting reps at corner not safety so I think it is possible if we draft another LB that can cover.
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Roc and Harris never had the potential of a KJax. Neither of those guys is worth anything. Maybe Harris is a decent #4 corner but that is speculative at best. I saw the potential in KJax when the majority of folks around here wanted his head cut off. I took major heat for it too. Now people are saying that KJax is more important than Quin. I disagree with that. It's funny how quickly people change their tune though.
 
I still don't understand why we let this guy hit the open market, especially with Keo as his backup. We did the same thing last year. We very well could have lost Chris Myers last year and lost Mike Brisel, I am not a fan of this policy to say the least. If you have a guy that is a top priority to resign you do not let his ass hit the open market. Most of the time he will cost you more if he is any good because you have to compete with teams with a lot of cap room and dumb General Managers and owners who continually overpay for players.
 
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TexansSeminole said:
Everybody is replaceable. It won't be easy to replace Quin and all the roles he plays for the team. Quin does way more for the team than Manning, he is much more versatile.
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I'm not suggesting that Manning is more valuable. If it were a situation where they were both FAs and you could only re-sign one, I'd take Quin right now. However, Manning is under contract already.

Technically everyone is replaceable. The problem lies with can you replace them with a comparable level or better player.

It would be a lot easier to get another S of Quin's ability than a DE of Watt's or a WR of Johnson's.
 
SW H-TOWN said:
I still don't understand why we let this guy hit the open market, especially with Keo as his backup. We did the same thing last year. We very well could have lost Chris Myers last year and lost Mike Brisel, I am not a fan of this policy to say the least. If you have a guy that is a top priority to resign you do not let his ass hit the open market. Most of the time he will cost you more if he is any good because you have to compete with teams with a lot of cap room and dumb General Managers and owners who continually overpay for players.
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Maybe the player decides to test the market on his own. Ever think about that?
 
SW H-TOWN said:
I still don't understand why we let this guy hit the open market, especially with Keo as his backup. We did the same thing last year. We very well could have lost Chris Myers last year and lost Mike Brisel, I am not a fan of this policy to say the least. If you have a guy that is a top priority to resign you do not let his ass hit the open market. Most of the time he will cost you more if he is any good because you have to compete with teams with a lot of cap room and dumb General Managers and owners who continually overpay for players.
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The only way to keep them from the open market is to hit them with the franchise tag. While the hit for safeties is lower than most spots it is still too costly for him when we don't have a lot of room.

I guess it would have been possible to extend at the beginning of the season, but as we've seen with Schaub that can backfire. I'm sure there has been an offer on the table for a long term deal since the season ended, or soon thereafter. Obviously, it wasn't exactly what Quin wanted, but you have to have a budget and know how much you can pay a player. If the team has to start cutting too many players to sign one then you create even more holes.
 
SW H-TOWN said:
I still don't understand why we let this guy hit the open market, especially with Keo as his backup. We did the same thing last year. We very well could have lost Chris Myers last year and lost Mike Brisel, I am not a fan of this policy to say the least. If you have a guy that is a top priority to resign you do not let his ass hit the open market. Most of the time he will cost you more if he is any good because you have to compete with teams with a lot of cap room and dumb General Managers and owners who continually overpay for players.
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I heard an interview with Quin the other day and he said the Texans had to want to keep him here. Reading between the lines, he's asking a certain amount, and the Texans don't want to pay it. So let him test the waters, and if the best he can do is 3.5m a year for 4 years, the Texans will probably match it. If the Browns offer him 5 years 30 million, then he's gone. The guy hasn't made a whole lot in his career so far, so I can't blame him for wanting top dollar.
 
TexanBacker93 said:
I'm not suggesting that Manning is more valuable. If it were a situation where they were both FAs and you could only re-sign one, I'd take Quin right now. However, Manning is under contract already.

Technically everyone is replaceable. The problem lies with can you replace them with a comparable level or better player.

It would be a lot easier to get another S of Quin's ability than a DE of Watt's or a WR of Johnson's.
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Right, I definitely agree with you about Cushing and Watt. The big point I am trying to make is that the level of play we got from Quin will cost a good chunk of change and/or a high draft pick to replace.

A guy like Byrd would never be able to play Quin's role. I don't think Delmas can either. Maybe you can say that Byrd is "as good" as Quin, but it boils down to scheme and what a player is asked to do. Byrd in this scheme would suck compared to Quin, and Quin as a centerfield type of safety would probably not be as effective as he is now. Even if they could, why do people assume they can be had for less than what Quin is asking or would want?

I didn't mean to insinuate that you were saying anything about Manning, just using him as an example of a player that won't fill the role. Manning is good at what he does though.

I'm all for replacing him with a cheaper option if we get the same level of play. I just don't think that is as easy as it sounds or really even possible given what is out there. If that's what we want, it's going to have to be someone on a rookie contract.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Right, I definitely agree with you about Cushing and Watt. The big point I am trying to make is that the level of play we got from Quin will cost a good chunk of change and/or a high draft pick to replace.

A guy like Byrd would never be able to play Quin's role. I don't think Delmas can either. Maybe you can say that Byrd is "as good" as Quin, but it boils down to scheme and what a player is asked to do. Byrd in this scheme would suck compared to Quin, and Quin as a centerfield type of safety would probably not be as effective as he is now.

I'm all for replacing him with a cheaper option if we get the same level of play. I just don't think that is as easy as it sounds or really even possible given what is out there. If that's what we want, it's going to have to be someone on a rookie contract.
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It could be that they figure they can get a slight drop-off in production with a rookie safety, but can upgrade more significantly at DT and OLB for the same amount of money it would cost to keep Quin. It could be like going with JJo and Manning instead of Nnamdi. We upgraded 2 positions for the same cost as just upgrading the one.

The key is going to be what do they do at their open positions.
 
TexansSeminole said:
No, he was put in the position because its impossible for a linebacker of 240 plus pounds to play that position effectively. He has been doing it since Wade arrived.



Roc and Harris never had the potential of a KJax. Neither of those guys is worth anything. Maybe Harris is a decent #4 corner but that is speculative at best. I saw the potential in KJax when the majority of folks around here wanted his head cut off. I took major heat for it too. Now people are saying that KJax is more important than Quin. I disagree with that. It's funny how quickly people change their tune though.
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Not going to bring up the KJ debate all over but to your response KJ was terrible first season and mediocre second. New coaching has developed him into what he is today. Same coaching could do same for Brandon & Roc. This will be KJ's 4th season and he really looked like a starter in his third season. This is the third season for Harris & Carmichael.
 
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