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"You take the 3 points and move on"

It's a matter of philosophy & situation & tendencies imo. a d-coordinator might choose to blitz if he's trying to force the qb to throw it quickly allowing the db's to sit & drive on those short routes that they know the WR's are going to be running b/c the fear of getting beat deep is pretty much non-existent.



Teams don't blitz a lot in the RZ because you are almost giving up the quick pass.

When you are in the middle of the field and you blitz, guys will play off the recievers a little bit and drive on the short routes because they figure with the blitz they don't have much time to do a double move. if the guy catches the ball, ok...Just make the tackle...

In the redzone you generally don't want to concede any yardage...and then if the WR catches the ball and the guy in coverage on them misses that's almost a guaranteed TD because now you are so thin back in coverage.

& ok, maybe zero percent was a bit of an exageration...maybe it has about 10% to do with it simply b/c even at the egde of the redzone a 20 yd. throw is nothing for any NFL qb to make & put on a rope...even for guys like schaub....As long as he can step into his throw. His arm strength issues really only rears it's head when he's throwing deep.


When throwing deep you can actually hide your arm more, by making faster reads and throwing the ball early. I think Schaub's deep ball passes have some to do with his arm strength, but where it shows up more than any other place is when he has to throw into really tight spaces i.e. the RZ.

But we can agree to disagree on this. No biggie.
 
not when the FG range is anything from 45-50 yards out not with this kicker ur better off just punting it or trying to convert a 1st down
 
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?

Not me. This is a foot-on-the-throat, grind-out-a-win type of football. This is COWHER type of football (for those people still wanting Cowher in here.) That's Parcells type of football.

Also, I believe that we're setting up tendencies in the regular season so we can break them in the post-season.
 
Also, I believe that we're setting up tendencies in the regular season so we can break them in the post-season.

Interesting. I still cannot get my head around the way we played Baltimore in the divisional round last year. I thought that was so anti-Kubiak, so maybe you've got a point.

But the way I see it, without an "elite" QB, to win consistently against the "elite" QBs, we're going to have to keep them off the field. I know that goes against the grain of where the NFL is right now, but the NFL is cyclical. Putting together a good run game & a good defense is easier than finding a franchise QB. Even looking at Andrew Luck yesterday, I'm not sold that the Colts hit the lottery everyone thinks they did.
 
Not me. This is a foot-on-the-throat, grind-out-a-win type of football. This is COWHER type of football (for those people still wanting Cowher in here.) That's Parcells type of football.

Also, I believe that we're setting up tendencies in the regular season so we can break them in the post-season.

Thank you TPN. So often people here suggest that the coaching staff does not want everything in the cupboard on film and I agree with this. Though I have no way of proving it except letting the powers that be prove it throughout the playoffs which are right around the corner. That "Denny's Menu" so often discussed I believe will get a lot thicker during the run. Depending on how deep we go and the situations that will most assuredly present themselves I think there will be some calls that leaves this fanbase and others thinking "Where the hell did that come from? I've never seen that before." I think Kubiak is just setting up the pieces. This chess match isn't over. Heck, it hasn't even really started yet. All that keyboard poking to say: Get your :popcorn:ready.

I hope. :worm:
 
No, it doesn't. It's correct if unappealing on the surface. Sometimes I wish they'd get their gamble on a little more but it's not like this doesn't work. It's obviously working just fine and has been since, well probably since 2007 to be honest.

Gary fixed the offense (fixed by his definition I think) in 2007 when he brought Schaub in and our offensive stats started climbing. What he didn't fix was the defense and that is why we were looking at 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, and 6-10. A defense of any ability on those teams probably turns that into at least a few 10+ win seasons with a little luck against the injury bug mixed in.

We're good. Remains to be seen if we're good enough but you know, after watching the 49'ers in the first half of their game last night make the Patriots look like us when we played the Patriots, and then nearly collapse and give it all away I'm forced to conclude that NFL football is a game of preparedness and controlled emotion. We're as good as any team in the league. Getting better isn't going to happen because there is no "better" in terms of collected talent out there. It's about coaching and consistency and finding a spark ("it" factor, whatever). Teams get hot and cold through the course of the year and we talk about peaking too soon or too late. Harbaugh changed out Smith for Kapernick (sp?) and at the time I thought he was making a mistake but Kap gives them a spark and the rest is already in place. Coaching is solid, talent level is consistent with a contender, and they have enough experience to handle adversity. Add a spark and things happen.

The Texans are young, don't all know how to handle adversity too well, and at least on the offensive side we don't have anyone giving us that spark consistently. Sometimes AJ can do it, Foster can get rolling and make it happen. Every once in a while Schaub has a magic day where he can do it. No one there consistently does it though. Not like Watt does on the defensive side. That's the difference between Schaub and the Bradys and Rogers of the world. Mostly Schaub runs the machine and sometimes he provides the energy with his play. Those other guys that get the elite title get it because they make it happen most of the time and when they don't get it done that's the exception to the rule.

What we've been seeing for most of the last 6-7 games has been a good team with no spark on offense. We're just good enough to beat most teams and we got lucky a little too. AJ stepped up and put the team on his shoulders for a few weeks.

Somebody on the offense needs to throw this thing on his shoulders and lead on the field, hold everyone else accountable, and provide the spark that makes the offense run like it is capable of running during the playoffs. Doesn't matter who but someone needs to bring the energy. That's what I think anyway.

I don't hold this over Kubiak anymore. He built the kind of offense that he knows how to build and he's seen it work in the past. It's up to the guys on the field to make plays now.
Repped.
I've been singing this mantra for years. The coach/coordinators can only call plays. The players have to step up/man up and beat the guy in front of them and MAKE the plays. If they don't, no play call will work. But when they do, it's a thing of beauty.

Did y'all see Brady and Welker going up and down the Pats' sideline pumping up their teammates. It got them back in the game. That's the "Bring the Energy" part you spoke of. We gotta have some guys on offense do that like Watt and Cushing (man, we miss him) do it on defense.
 
Can't think of a better place to drop this.... since we're talking about breaking tendencies & the Denny's Menu.

Listening to the Kubiak show, they asked him about the script in the second half. Kubiak said yeah, they had a script, but since the first few plays were going so well, he scrapped the script & went heavily on the run.

The first drive after the half, Foster had a big run, then a pass to Andre, then we ran it down the field the rest of the way. we used up about 6 minutes on that drive even though we stalled in the redzone & kicked a field goal.
 
people don't blitz on passing plays all that often in the redzone. It makes much more sense to sit back in a zone and force the qb to throw into a tight window. If he tries to run it, you have people looking at him.

Qb's that can move well and put pressure on the defense with their legs and/or arm tend to have a lot of red zone success.

And i disagree that arm strength doesn't have anything to do with it. imo it has a lot to do with it. You said it yourself...the windows are smaller. Arm strength becomes more apparent in shorter spaces. Guys with guns can zip balls into tight spaces on a regular basis. Having some mobility also helps because it makes defenders abandon their zones to stop the qb from running.

Schaub doesn't have either one of those attributes going for him and that's why he's never been a really good red zone qb
.

qft
 
Not me. This is a foot-on-the-throat, grind-out-a-win type of football. This is COWHER type of football (for those people still wanting Cowher in here.) That's Parcells type of football.

Also, I believe that we're setting up tendencies in the regular season so we can break them in the post-season.

More concerning for me was the two games against two upper tier teams and the results of those two games coupled with how the Texans played. They weren't even competitive. I couldn't care less if we kick 9 field goals and win 27 to 10... Every Super Bowl winner has had ugly wins (with exception of the '85 Bears)...

I don't think teams look for tendancies with the Texans. I think they look at the Texans and think :hmmm: (first thought) should we shut down their running game or take out the passing game? No matter what we pick, what adjustments can we make to slow down the other part of that equation.
 
More concerning for me was the two games against two upper tier teams and the results of those two games coupled with how the Texans played. They weren't even competitive. I couldn't care less if we kick 9 field goals and win 27 to 10... Every Super Bowl winner has had ugly wins (with exception of the '85 Bears)...

I don't think teams look for tendancies with the Texans. I think they look at the Texans and think :hmmm: (first thought) should we shut down their running game or take out the passing game? No matter what we pick, what adjustments can we make to slow down the other part of that equation.

It's the NFL. Texans are near the top of the league in beating quality opponents and not losing to them. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/stats/2012/16/QS/

Ultimately, I think we are overthinking this. Sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes you are the bug. This year we're the windshield more.
 
Relax... the Texans are just letting everyone believe, thats what they do everytime... then at the superbowl all of a sudden - bam, TD!

Just like at the NE game when they were holding back to get them in the playoffs...


... no, I don`t believe it either, but it`s way more fun to think that way...
 
Ultimately, I think we are overthinking this. Sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes you are the bug. This year we're the windshield more.

True.... true.

It's amazing that we lose to the Patriots & everything about our team is bad. QB, Coach, Players, Defense, offense, running game, special teams...... well ok, our ST are bad.

But the Patriots do the same thing the following week & they're not so bad. They're still one of two teams we don't want to see in the play-offs.

I understand the Patriots have been there done that & maybe that affords them a pass, I can see how you wouldn't be worried about their ability to win a Super Bowl. But don't they do this every year? Get to the Super Bowl & lose? It feels like it anyway, & no one here would be happy if we get to the Super Bowl & lose.

It's going to be because our QB isn't clutch, it's going to be because our Coach is too conservative, it's going to be because you can't play man coverage against Kaepernick & Harbaugh...

Say, that reminds me. The Patriots didn't win the Super Bowl last year with a clutch, HOF QB & coaching combo & they didn't play a lot of man coverage.

We probably won't win the Super Bowl, but it won't be because of any of those things. It will be because that other team will be better than us that day. That's football. That's just the way it goes.
 
This is the NFL, you take the points but you do not sissy up when in the red zone. Sure our QB is going to do what HC wants. But when you 3 and goal from the 7 you should at least try to reach the goal line. I saw where we sissyed up and kicked once or twice and we still won. But we have played some games where we needed 7 points and we got it so what do you do we have a HC while he is not the Best he is 12 and 2. Lets get behind him and hope we dont zig when we needed to Zag
 
This is the NFL, you take the points but you do not sissy up when in the red zone. Sure our QB is going to do what HC wants. But when you 3 and goal from the 7 you should at least try to reach the goal line. I saw where we sissyed up and kicked once or twice and we still won. But we have played some games where we needed 7 points and we got it so what do you do we have a HC while he is not the Best he is 12 and 2. Lets get behind him and hope we dont zig when we needed to Zag

Really not understanding why you mixed in some periods.

:brando:
 
Arm strength has 0 to do with why we don't throw in the red zone. It's b/c the field is shorter, defenders are in closer proximity than they normally are, which makes them a little more agressive driving on short crossing routes & curls, def coordinators are less afraid of being burned if they choose to blitz...it's just too risky for an offense. Matt's right, against good teams you have to take the points when you can get them...don't even see why this is a debate.

Fans keep calling for that fade/jump ball throw to AJ like it's a surefire TD if we throw it to him just b/c on paper the match up favors us 9 out of 10 times. Those kind of throws are at best 50/50 balls b/c many times the db doesn't have to turn his back & run with the WR..he can just back up & get a hand on the ball....possibly tip it to himself or another nearby defender.

Last year this is all Stafford & Calvin Johnson did in the end zone & they were extremely successful...This year, not so much. & we all saw what happened to the Ravens right before the half yesterday trying to do this exact same thing; pick 6 the other way.


Maybe you mix up your playcalling a bit and run a few trick pass plays but for the most part i agree with schaub here & don't really have a problem with them taking the points.

Running the ball is a strength of ours, we've got 1 of the best rb's in the game that has a nose for the end zone.

Joe Flacco's pick wasn't a fade...It was a quick out route that Flacco just telegraphed all the way. Last year the fade with Stafford and Megatron was MONEY this year it's different because they don't even throw it because of the double coverage they have on Megatron once they reach the 5. The fade between Dalton and AJ Green is money as well as Romo/Dez, Ryan/Julio, Eli/Nicks(when healthy). When you have a 6'3 230 lb receiver who has a 40 inch vertical YOU HAVE TO THROW THE FADE AT LEAST ONCE. It's just stupid not to give it a try. As long as Schaub throws it right(which means high and to the sideline) it's INCREDIBLY hard to pick it off. Did you guys see Andre's catch when Schaub threw the back shoulder fade? Guess what? We could do that in the redzone as well. You're right when teams get into the redzone the coverage is much tighter which supports the argument of a fade to Andre as long as the coverage is 1 on 1.
 
Joe Flacco's pick wasn't a fade...It was a quick out route that Flacco just telegraphed all the way. Last year the fade with Stafford and Megatron was MONEY this year it's different because they don't even throw it because of the double coverage they have on Megatron once they reach the 5. The fade between Dalton and AJ Green is money as well as Romo/Dez, Ryan/Julio, Eli/Nicks(when healthy). When you have a 6'3 230 lb receiver who has a 40 inch vertical YOU HAVE TO THROW THE FADE AT LEAST ONCE. It's just stupid not to give it a try. As long as Schaub throws it right(which means high and to the sideline) it's INCREDIBLY hard to pick it off. Did you guys see Andre's catch when Schaub threw the back shoulder fade? Guess what? We could do that in the redzone as well. You're right when teams get into the redzone the coverage is much tighter which supports the argument of a fade to Andre as long as the coverage is 1 on 1.


Lol, Stafford is throwing them, they just aren't converting them as much b/c teams know what they like to do once they get into the red zone...like i said in another post addressed to Rey "tendencies". The coverage that Calvin has been seeing has nothing to do with it b/c teams have been sending all kinds of crazy coverage to Megatron....even last year..... it just didn't matter. They just had 1 of those years where they converted an abnormally high # of those type of plays & this year water found it's level.

Getting back on topic though, That fade throw is also incredibly hard for the qb to throw just right for it to be converted. It's also incredibly hard for the WR to catch it & get both feet down in bounds/maintain possession all the way down as well. & with there being no force out rule in effect anymore...it's even harder...Like i said it's a 50-50 ball at best if everything is done perfect & you've got an elite guy out there. If 1 of those variable is even a little out of whack, then it's exactly what matrix31 says..a waste of a down.

& regardless of whether it's was a fade or an out route that Flacco threw the premise about what i'm saying about a db's mentality in the red zone holds true. They're more apt to gamble and drive on short routes b/c they have no fear of getting beat deep & they know the WR's will be running them. They already have the 5 yard chuck rule to further shrink the room available & mess up the timing of the route & if a qb still chooses to force it in there the chances of a pick go up even higher.

So yes the fade is a relatively safe play to run with potentially a big reward..More often than not however you're going to be in a 3rd & long with limited playcalling. & while you may not think this is true, 3rd and 8 plus is alot tougher to convert than 3rd and 5 or less. This assumes that you run the ball for 2.5 yds on all other downs. The playbook options are that much more wide open.
 
True.... true.

It's amazing that we lose to the Patriots & everything about our team is bad. QB, Coach, Players, Defense, offense, running game, special teams...... well ok, our ST are bad.

But the Patriots do the same thing the following week & they're not so bad. They're still one of two teams we don't want to see in the play-offs.

I understand the Patriots have been there done that & maybe that affords them a pass, I can see how you wouldn't be worried about their ability to win a Super Bowl. But don't they do this every year? Get to the Super Bowl & lose? It feels like it anyway, & no one here would be happy if we get to the Super Bowl & lose.

It's going to be because our QB isn't clutch, it's going to be because our Coach is too conservative, it's going to be because you can't play man coverage against Kaepernick & Harbaugh...

Say, that reminds me. The Patriots didn't win the Super Bowl last year with a clutch, HOF QB & coaching combo & they didn't play a lot of man coverage.

We probably won't win the Super Bowl, but it won't be because of any of those things. It will be because that other team will be better than us that day. That's football. That's just the way it goes.

Pats went to the SB 5 times since and counting the 2002 SB and won it 3 times, but their 2 losses are the last 2 against NYG and they haven't won a SB wince Feb. 6, 2005 (2004 season); so, it's been a lot of playoffs and no actual rings since then, not that we can look down on that.
 
Pats went to the SB 5 times since and counting the 2002 SB and won it 3 times, but their 2 losses are the last 2 against NYG and they haven't won a SB wince Feb. 6, 2005 (2004 season); so, it's been a lot of playoffs and no actual rings since then, not that we can look down on that.

I agree, I didn't mean anything derogatory towards the Patriots. I'd be happy if that was us since 2002. However, I already get the feeling that we can't win with some of our fans here. I've already heard, "this season means nothing if we don't win the Super Bowl."

& I think that's a crock. I'm not planning a parade or anything, But I do expect a party if we win the AFCCG in Houston and I would have no problem with fans wanting to meet the team at Reliant if they lose the Super Bowl.

This has been an amazing season, as is. We don't look like the best team in football, but we're winning. We're beating decent teams, not the elites, but decent teams.

It's just exhausting.
 
I agree, I didn't mean anything derogatory towards the Patriots. I'd be happy if that was us since 2002. However, I already get the feeling that we can't win with some of our fans here. I've already heard, "this season means nothing if we don't win the Super Bowl."

& I think that's a crock. I'm not planning a parade or anything, But I do expect a party if we win the AFCCG in Houston and I would have no problem with fans wanting to meet the team at Reliant if they lose the Super Bowl.

This has been an amazing season, as is. We don't look like the best team in football, but we're winning. We're beating decent teams, not the elites, but decent teams.

It's just exhausting.

How would you feel if we lose the AFCC, presumably at home?
 
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?

I'm concerned...BUT sometimes you have to come to terms with the fact that you're not going to get a TD on each drive and 3 is better than a goose-egg.
 
How would you feel if we lose the AFCC, presumably at home?

I'm not going to be mad at the coach. I'm not going to be mad at the players. I'm not going to be mad at the owner.

I'm going to be heartbroken with my team. I may not even watch the Super Bowl.

But I'm going to be excited & looking forward to next season expecting the best. Expecting to win the Super Bowl.
 
I'm not going to be mad at the coach. I'm not going to be mad at the players. I'm not going to be mad at the owner.

I'm going to be heartbroken with my team. I may not even watch the Super Bowl.

But I'm going to be excited & looking forward to next season expecting the best. Expecting to win the Super Bowl.

Yeah, I guess that's about where I'm at.
 
I think it is a BIG issue come playoff time, the 3rd and long draws are getting predictable and ridiculous. 3's won't work against the Pats or Broncos giving their ability to score quickly. Schaub needs to learn to throw it up to AJ ONCE AND AWHILE, the guy is a beast, why no corner fades in the red zone???
 
I think it is a BIG issue come playoff time, the 3rd and long draws are getting predictable and ridiculous. 3's won't work against the Pats or Broncos giving their ability to score quickly. Schaub needs to learn to throw it up to AJ ONCE AND AWHILE, the guy is a beast, why no corner fades in the red zone???

We did throw the fade once in a while.
It doesn't work all that well.
 
Just bumping this, since it has become heated conversation after the Bengals game and leading into the Pats game.

Brady > FGs

Here's to hoping we have a coming out party or it is announced Schaub is having major surgery when the season is done.
 
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?

Combine these thoughts with the recient Kubiak statements about checking down in the red zone and I think its clear that Kubiak doesn't trust Schaub so we try to avoid mistakes as an offensive style.
 
I think if you're playing Cincinnati & you're moping the floor with them, if you don't get a TD with the three downs you're allotted, you kick the field goal. Makes no sense to "go for it" on 4th down. You're not proving anything other than you couldn't do it in 3.

If you're playing the Patriots & it's 0-0, you take the 3. If you're down by 3, you take the three. If you're up by three, you kick the field goal.

All the while, you are trying to get a TD. but if you don't get it, you kick the field goal, unless you're down by 7 or more & running out of time.
 
Combine these thoughts with the recient Kubiak statements about checking down in the red zone and I think its clear that Kubiak doesn't trust Schaub so we try to avoid mistakes as an offensive style.

This is certainly an issue. However, I think it's less about trusting Schaub and more about trusting the offensive line. Schaub seldom can take a step drop and have time in the pocket. Since Schaub doesn't have a gun and doesn't run, 3rd and goal beyond the 10 is a very difficult position for this team.
 
I think if you're playing Cincinnati & you're moping the floor with them, if you don't get a TD with the three downs you're allotted, you kick the field goal. Makes no sense to "go for it" on 4th down. You're not proving anything other than you couldn't do it in 3.

If you're playing the Patriots & it's 0-0, you take the 3. If you're down by 3, you take the three. If you're up by three, you kick the field goal.

All the while, you are trying to get a TD. but if you don't get it, you kick the field goal, unless you're down by 7 or more & running out of time.

We agree on this. The issue is Kubiak is playing conservative on 2nd and 3rd down. He's not really going for 6. He's going for 3 from 1st and 10 from the 20. 2 yard completions on 3rd and goal when youre on the 5 are useless. It's safer just to kick on 3rd down. Its the worst of both worlds -- no shot at 6 and risking a turnover
 
This is certainly an issue. However, I think it's less about trusting Schaub and more about trusting the offensive line. Schaub seldom can take a step drop and have time in the pocket. Since Schaub doesn't have a gun and doesn't run, 3rd and goal beyond the 10 is a very difficult position for this team.
that's not easy for any team period...but its way more than just a line issue to me...who on this team gets great separation now? Andre can and does, but even he doesn't even create the space he used to be able to create. Everyone else is pretty much a possession receiver.
 
that's not easy for any team period...but its way more than just a line issue to me...who on this team gets great separation now? Andre can and does, but even he doesn't even create the space he used to be able to create. Everyone else is pretty much a possession receiver.

Numbers 18 and 86 both have burned the D. The question is, do we have a QB capable of getting it to them?
 
Numbers 18 and 86 both have burned the D. The question is, do we have a QB capable of getting it to them?
Every possession wr in the NFL past and present can burn a d from time to time but you can't just count on tricking people or sneaking one by all the time. This team isn't fast or sudden on offense anymore.
 
From LZ's Twitter. Hard to win if your QB can't help you in the green zone.

Lance Zierlein‏@LanceZierlein

From wks 14-17, Schaub is 13 of 25 for 98 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs when attempting passes from between oppon. 39-20 yd line. Hard to win

Lance Zierlein‏@LanceZierlein

Know why Texans are bogging down from week 14-17 & kicking FGs? Maybe it has to do w/ Schaub's 28.4 QB Rating from opponents 39-20 yd line
 
Combine these thoughts with the recient Kubiak statements about checking down in the red zone and I think its clear that Kubiak doesn't trust Schaub so we try to avoid mistakes as an offensive style.

I think you're 100% right. So I either want 4 redzone TD's Sunday or the announcement of post season surgery to prove that you're wrong.

If that's our 'style' and 'strategy' (I think it is) then it makes me angry. Even if we went 14-2 and had homefield I would complain about it.

I have NEVER been a Schaub hater, but WTH happened this year? Was I blind in previous years?
 
From LZ's Twitter. Hard to win if your QB can't help you in the green zone.

This is what I was saying awhile ago.

For the year though, Schaub wasn't that bad.
He was mediocre.

I haven't got time to figure out exactly what happened between the 40-20 as of late.
 
We agree on this. The issue is Kubiak is playing conservative on 2nd and 3rd down. He's not really going for 6. He's going for 3 from 1st and 10 from the 20. 2 yard completions on 3rd and goal when youre on the 5 are useless. It's safer just to kick on 3rd down. Its the worst of both worlds -- no shot at 6 and risking a turnover

This is simply not true.
I had broken down all of Schaub's throws in the redzone in another thread.

The Texans did go for the endzone plenty enough as a percentage of number of pass plays. It's just that we called almost twice as many running plays and we weren't quite as good in that department (until we get to the 3 yard line).

I wished Kubiak had called more passing plays between the 20 and 4 yard line.
 
We agree on this. The issue is Kubiak is playing conservative on 2nd and 3rd down. He's not really going for 6. He's going for 3 from 1st and 10 from the 20. 2 yard completions on 3rd and goal when youre on the 5 are useless. It's safer just to kick on 3rd down. Its the worst of both worlds -- no shot at 6 and risking a turnover

I'll have to pay more attention, because I'm just not seeing this.

Kubiak doesn't have a run play for 3 yards & a different run play for 15. He calls the play & the guys are supposed to get what they're supposed to get.

He calls a pass and there are usually 3 receivers in the pattern. I don't know if I've ever seen a Gary Kubiak designed passing play where all three receivers are within 5 yards of the LOS.
 
Every possession wr in the NFL past and present can burn a d from time to time but you can't just count on tricking people or sneaking one by all the time. This team isn't fast or sudden on offense anymore.

Totally agree. I think Kubes feels that with the play action working and the overall offensive design that any WR good enough to be at this level can get open...and sometimes they can....but because he feels that way, he also doesn't want to invest the draft pick or money it takes to get one.

My point was simply that I've lost confidence in our signal caller to execute those plays, and my guess is so has Kubes...and if we do get a guy that can consistently burn defenses and get separation, how many more under-throws will be made? I mean can you get any more open at this level than James Casey? If that is Brady, that's a TD. With Schaub, it's a pick. So what if you can get open if the signal caller can't get it there with any consistency?

I'm not sure why he seems to be regressing? He's like a movie - The curious Case of Matt Schaub, who started the season as a grizzled vet and slowly becomes a rookie...because that is how he is playing.

Anyone got any theories? I'm wondering about the health and pain in that foot myself.
 
Something I hadn't seen from the Texans in a LONG ass time in the red zone? Passes to Arian.

That **** was money in 2010 and 11....only saw it once in 2012. It's time to go back to it.
 
Totally agree. I think Kubes feels that with the play action working and the overall offensive design that any WR good enough to be at this level can get open...and sometimes they can....but because he feels that way, he also doesn't want to invest the draft pick or money it takes to get one.

My point was simply that I've lost confidence in our signal caller to execute those plays, and my guess is so has Kubes...and if we do get a guy that can consistently burn defenses and get separation, how many more under-throws will be made? I mean can you get any more open at this level than James Casey? If that is Brady, that's a TD. With Schaub, it's a pick. So what if you can get open if the signal caller can't get it there with any consistency?

I'm not sure why he seems to be regressing? He's like a movie - The curious Case of Matt Schaub, who started the season as a grizzled vet and slowly becomes a rookie...because that is how he is playing.

Anyone got any theories? I'm wondering about the health and pain in that foot myself.
perhaps he has hit his plateau. Perhaps both of them have. Schaub can't move, doesn't have a big arm, not real accurate deep, but has the playbook mastered and is good when everything stacks up right. Kubiak knows the system he was taught, but doesn't seem creative enough to step out of it. It's not a dumb and dumber thing...I'm just kinda thinking that we have Richie Kotite coaching the washed up, end-of-his-career Boomer Esiason for the 95 Jets thing going on with our offense. Boomer was a better QB than Schaub ever was, but not when he was with the Jets.
 
perhaps he has hit his plateau. Perhaps both of them have. Schaub can't move, doesn't have a big arm, not real accurate deep, but has the playbook mastered and is good when everything stacks up right. Kubiak knows the system he was taught, but doesn't seem creative enough to step out of it. It's not a dumb and dumber thing...I'm just kinda thinking that we have Richie Kotite coaching the washed up, end-of-his-career Boomer Esiason for the 95 Jets thing going on with our offense. Boomer was a better QB than Schaub ever was, but not when he was with the Jets.

Good points. Love your football acumen as always, and yes I think that is an apt comparison.
 
Something I hadn't seen from the Texans in a LONG ass time in the red zone? Passes to Arian.

That **** was money in 2010 and 11....only saw it once in 2012. It's time to go back to it.

If I remember right we were at 3rd and goal from the 5-10 yard line and threw a short completion to Foster last Saturday. He caught it, gained a yard, and was tackled immediately
 
perhaps he has hit his plateau. Perhaps both of them have. Schaub can't move, doesn't have a big arm, not real accurate deep, but has the playbook mastered and is good when everything stacks up right. Kubiak knows the system he was taught, but doesn't seem creative enough to step out of it. It's not a dumb and dumber thing...I'm just kinda thinking that we have Richie Kotite coaching the washed up, end-of-his-career Boomer Esiason for the 95 Jets thing going on with our offense. Boomer was a better QB than Schaub ever was, but not when he was with the Jets.

I disagree with this.

This offense is not the offense Kubes ran in Denver. It's similar. It's got a lot of the same plays. It's based off the same concepts. But Kubiak has added a lot of new wrinkles over the years. He's much more creative with the tight-ends and how he pulls guys. It's not a pure zone blocking scheme all the time now -- it has trap and pull elements now.
 
I disagree with this.

This offense is not the offense Kubes ran in Denver. It's similar. It's got a lot of the same plays. It's based off the same concepts. But Kubiak has added a lot of new wrinkles over the years. He's much more creative with the tight-ends and how he pulls guys. It's not a pure zone blocking scheme all the time now -- it has trap and pull elements now.

& they added the wham block.

The Patriots used the "wham block" (so termed by John Gruden on MNF) to neutralize Antonio & Watt. The offensive lineman feigns a block, Antonio/Jj feels like they've penetrated the OL, and a TE/WR blindsides him.... seriously deterring his path to the RB.

We did the same thing a couple of times vs Cincinnati to Peko & Atkins. Very affective.
 
If they take this approach consistently against the Pats Sunday, they'll take the loss and head home.

In all honesty, I think not taking this approach cost us the Div game last year. It was very uncharacteristic of Kubiak, imo, to press the issue & try to score quick & fast against Baltimore.

According to Bruschi, it was Schaub pressing, trying to "keep up" with Brady that led to him uncharacteristically throwing that Int when the safe throw was underneath.

Gary-ball built a 20 pt lead on several teams this year, with a little help from the defense, we put 43 on the Ravens.

We need to stop trying to be somebody else, stop "trying" to score points & just play the game. Be the best we can & let the game come to us.
 
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