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Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

Hannah was a nobody before the combine. Definition of a workout warrior, and this is coming from an OU fan. 381 yards and 2 TDs on the season, only 52 catches for his career. He can block ok, but hardly a WOW blocker.

Lots of players boost their stock due to the combine.

Kind of weird to talk about his lack of production and at the same time pimp fleener.


I think if Hannah was in that system with luck throwing him passes he'd have been more productive.

The NFL is full of good te's. Almost every team has one. Sorry, but I don't see the value of us taking fleener in the first.

I think there are other options for TE that can be just as productive in our system.
 
Final Texan Group Mock Draft of 2012

Here is our annual final version 2012 Texan Mock Draft, compliments of Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover. No big reaches early, solid middle with low risk high reward prospects late. This was a group effort with multiple edited versions, starting with #26 & finishing with a total redo proposal trashed. Need really drove this draft, from giving Schaub protection, more targets in passing game, along with depth behind him & Yates. Wade Phillips didn't come away empty handed either, addressing OLB to provide depth/rotation & interior NT to develop. Even pushed a kicker for Joe Marciano to break in.

FIRST ROUND, #26: Coby Fleener TE Stanford. 6’6” 247, arm length 33 3/8”, hand size 10”
We have all identified that a huge need for the Texans is a second option in the passing game, and Fleener fits the bill nicely. While he is not a WR, Coby should provide match-up problems (size and strength vs DBs, speed vs LBs) that no WR in the draft can. Fleener possesses excellent body control and soft hands, both of which are musts in today’s NFL. We are not expecting him to be the next Gronkowski, but we do think he has the potential to be a premier receiving TE sooner rather than later. Fleener has steadily improved during his time at Stanford and turned into a technical, effective route runner who is able to separate at the top of routes. He would fast become Schaub’s #2 receiving option in double set TE formation Kubiak favors. Coby will go up for the ball in traffic, people will discover he is more physical than expected & willing blocker that will improve in time just like he showcased steady improvement while @ Stanford. He is a smooth athlete who looks natural running deep down the field, even at his height something Texans need & covet along with 2nd rounder Brian Quick this not only stretches the field it creates multiple match-up problems for defensive coordinators & Arian Foster should continue his ground assault without teams crowding the box.

SECOND ROUND, #58: Brian Quick, WR Appalachian State. 6’4” 220, 34 ¼” arm length, hand size 9 ¾”
Former Basketball player & High Jumper Quick passes the eye test looking the part of a NFL 1st rd. WR. If not for his late start (played only one year of High School Football) he would have been heavily recruited by a bigger school other than a NCAA Division I FCS level school, but then probably doesn’t make it to 58th overall selection after developing four years into a 1st team All American. 71 receptions, 1096 yards & 11 TD’s his senior year. Quick has also proven to be durable with no recent nagging injuries to speak of, no ACL tears or hamstring issues, you have to go back 2007, his second year playing football, that he redshirted because of back pain, but not before helping Mountaineers upset Michigan in that memorable upset when young Brian used his length & vertical jump to block what would have been a game winning field goal for that devastated Wolverine team. Check off the Texan requirements in both size & speed departments, ran in low 4.5’s w/outstanding length, over 80” wingspan. Clean on/off field. Willing blocker, special teams standout & does not have diva attitude, someone for Andre to help groom to reach his potential.

THIRD ROUND, #76: Ronnell Lewis DE/OLB Oklahoma. 6'2" 253, 32 ½” arm length, hand size 9 ¼”
Early-entry Junior nicknamed "The Hammer" by teammates. Although he only played in 10 games, stats good: 59 T with 13 TFL (5.5 sacks) 5 passes batted down with a forced fumble and 1 INT. Solid Combine benched 36, ran 7.09 short shuttle which showcased his natural strength & change of direction speed, leading us to believe talent is there to stand-up & fit in Wade Phillips 3-4. He plays physically with violence & aggressive hand use. *Note he outplayed Seminole OT’s Datko and Sanders late in season. Sharp footwork, fluid quickness & keeps eyes up locating ball fast & have smooth change of direction. Teams impressed with his interviews during the combine & how he explained how his grades kept him from bowl game. He possess a strong will with high motor, similar to Brooks Reed & Connor Barwin which leads one to believe he cannot be held in check a whole game & will get to the QB.

FOURTH ROUND, #99: Phillip Blake C/OG Baylor. 6'2" 311, arm length 33" hand size 9 3/4"
Senior, three year starter, already played in a pro-style offense with RG3. Needs an NFL conditioning program to keep weight but change some flab to muscle. Regardless, he is a man. Combine bench was 22 which belies his strength. Did well against much heavier Ta'Amu (DT) & brains will allow him to back up Myers calling the Oline and should contest for RG if not start. He has low center of gravity with strong anchor that allows him to maintain position against big DTs. Hand placement could be better but few got by him. Texans' QBs ability to take snap from center rather than shotgun like RG# will benefit this man mountain as will the ZBS. Some mention his age but not an issue as he should last 5-6+ years. Oh BTW? Myers just signed long term deal & he turns 31 Sept 15th. Top Offensive line performer @ Combine in both vertical (29.5”) & long jump (105”).

FOURTH ROUND, #121: Levy Adcock, OT/OG Oklahoma State. 6’5” 322, 33” arm length, hand size 9 ½”
Snubbed by the combine, despite selected to Big 12 First Team & not allowing a single sack all year playing LT in the Cowboys high profile passing offense. Adcock is your classic late bloomer, who added 30 pounds his senior year as his frame filled out. Levy is more athletic than given credit for & can line up multiple positions (LT/RT or LG/RG) adding plus value to his draft stock. Plays with attitude, confidence & brings his lunch pail to work every day. In the mold of a more talented, diverse prospect than recently departed Mike Brisel. While far from a finished product Levy possess natural knee bend, technique, size & experience to start in a pinch if needed. Impressed scouts at OSU Pro-Day running a fluid 5.18 forty, benched 26 times, with 27 ½” vertical. Along with Center /OG Phillip Blake early in 4th Texans can rebuild interior of their OL vacated by Brisel/Winston, back-up for Myers & replacement swing tackle for Butler.

FIFTH ROUND, #161: Ryan Lindley, QB San Diego State. 6’3 3/4” 229, 32 ¼” arm length, hand size 10 1/8”
Looking at the Texans roster, there are only 2 QBs listed- Schaub and Yates. Matt is coming off a serious injury, and will be a highly paid free agent after this coming season, while we all like Yates, it is simply not prudent to put all of our eggs in one basket. Therefore, we have decided to draft Ryan Lindley at this spot in the draft. Lindley boasts excellent size for the position, and is quite adept at throwing on the move, but is even better in the pocket. A 4 year starter, Lindley exhibits great maturity. So why does he fall this far? The answer is simple- competition and accuracy. Playing in the MWC is obviously not the same as playing in the SEC, and as for accuracy, Lindley needs some work. The ability is there, but he is just not consistent. All in all, he should be a great 3rd QB this season, with the potential to be a starting QB down the line. Texans need to use Kubiak’s feel & developmental abilities @ the QB position, someday instead of just letting coveted free agents walk, where they have depth these young, developed QB’s have great trading value down the road if they so choose.

SIXTH ROUND, #195: Randy Bullock, Kicker Texas A&M. 5’10” 205, 100 PAT% 2009-10
Bullock won the Lou Groza Award as College Football’s top kicker in 2011. 29 of 33 Field Goal attempts made, increasing FG 87.9% from 76.2% in 2010 while increasing length. His trend line is a positive one, that is important to a kicker’s confidence & proving track record based on sound fundamentals moving forward to the NFL. His range is currently already in the 50 yard territory with a 52 yard FG this past season setting a new personal best . With strengthening & more technical work he can be expected to extend his range into the mid to high 50 yard range on a consistent basis. Scouts came away impressed with his leg strength both at the Combine & Pro-Day. http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-check-out-texas-am-kicker/ Randy already looks the part of a NFL kicker, both quality of character, work ethic & maturity. We feel it’s time special teams coach grooms a young 10-15 year starter to become the Texans long term answer & closer.

SEVENTH ROUND, #233: Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, NT Kent State. 6’3” 334, 35 reps 31” vertical
Our last pick is going towards a developmental player that flashed brilliance at the college level, but needs to be coached up to his talents. Yes, the Texans are now using a system where the NT is a penetrator, and that is not really Kitchen’s game. However, Wade has proven over the years to design his scheme around his talent. And we believe Kitchen has talent, it is just a matter of uncovering it. Kitchen’s biggest strength is, well, his strength. He is a bear to move inside, and consistently occupies 2 blockers, effectively neutralizing the run game. There was a very noticeable difference when Kitchen missed a couple games due to a dislocated elbow, and when he was in the game. Even if he never pans out to be a starting caliber player (it is a 7th rounder, after all), he should still be a useful player in short-yardage situations. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]



Well done Guys, great mock.

double dipping on offence in the first 2 rounds would be impressive. it would add a whole different dimension to our offence and if it fell this way i would be pretty happy.

Fleener is one of the 3 or 4 players i would be very happy with if we took in the first. He gives our offence are real playmaking ability. And I'm not to concerned about his blocking. It isn't great but for a receiver first TE is pretty good.

Quick has been rising up boards fast and if he could be had in the 2nd that would be fantastic. There are a lot of WR in the 1-2 range so someone has to fall.

Lewis is an intriguing prospect that i think can offer a lot for any NFL team. He looks like he could be a real stud.

Only concern is the double pick on the O-line. Obviously you guys went for BPA which i completely agree with but i would like to see maybe a CB or NT to replace one of them.

have no idea about the 7th rounder.

Overall a very nice mock that offers real x-factor and playmaking ability to the team!

would have liked to analysis this earlier but i have had a little on my plate recently.
 
FIFTH ROUND, #161: Ryan Lindley, QB San Diego State. 6’3 3/4” 229, 32 ¼” arm length, hand size 10 1/8”
Looking at the Texans roster, there are only 2 QBs listed- Schaub and Yates. Matt is coming off a serious injury, and will be a highly paid free agent after this coming season, while we all like Yates, it is simply not prudent to put all of our eggs in one basket. Therefore, we have decided to draft Ryan Lindley at this spot in the draft. Lindley boasts excellent size for the position, and is quite adept at throwing on the move, but is even better in the pocket. A 4 year starter, Lindley exhibits great maturity. So why does he fall this far? The answer is simple- competition and accuracy. Playing in the MWC is obviously not the same as playing in the SEC, and as for accuracy, Lindley needs some work. The ability is there, but he is just not consistent. All in all, he should be a great 3rd QB this season, with the potential to be a starting QB down the line. Texans need to use Kubiak’s feel & developmental abilities @ the QB position, someday instead of just letting coveted free agents walk, where they have depth these young, developed QB’s have great trading value down the road if they so choose.

SIXTH ROUND, #195: Randy Bullock, Kicker Texas A&M. 5’10” 205, 100 PAT% 2009-10
Bullock won the Lou Groza Award as College Football’s top kicker in 2011. 29 of 33 Field Goal attempts made, increasing FG 87.9% from 76.2% in 2010 while increasing length. His trend line is a positive one, that is important to a kicker’s confidence & proving track record based on sound fundamentals moving forward to the NFL. His range is currently already in the 50 yard territory with a 52 yard FG this past season setting a new personal best . With strengthening & more technical work he can be expected to extend his range into the mid to high 50 yard range on a consistent basis. Scouts came away impressed with his leg strength both at the Combine & Pro-Day. http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-check-out-texas-am-kicker/ Randy already looks the part of a NFL kicker, both quality of character, work ethic & maturity. We feel it’s time special teams coach grooms a young 10-15 year starter to become the Texans long term answer & closer.

SEVENTH ROUND, #233: Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, NT Kent State. 6’3” 334, 35 reps 31” vertical
Our last pick is going towards a developmental player that flashed brilliance at the college level, but needs to be coached up to his talents. Yes, the Texans are now using a system where the NT is a penetrator, and that is not really Kitchen’s game. However, Wade has proven over the years to design his scheme around his talent. And we believe Kitchen has talent, it is just a matter of uncovering it. Kitchen’s biggest strength is, well, his strength. He is a bear to move inside, and consistently occupies 2 blockers, effectively neutralizing the run game. There was a very noticeable difference when Kitchen missed a couple games due to a dislocated elbow, and when he was in the game. Even if he never pans out to be a starting caliber player (it is a 7th rounder, after all), he should still be a useful player in short-yardage situations.
[/QUOTE]



Well done Guys, great mock.

double dipping on offence in the first 2 rounds would be impressive. it would add a whole different dimension to our offence and if it fell this way i would be pretty happy.

Fleener is one of the 3 or 4 players i would be very happy with if we took in the first. He gives our offence are real playmaking ability. And I'm not to concerned about his blocking. It isn't great but for a receiver first TE is pretty good.

Quick has been rising up boards fast and if he could be had in the 2nd that would be fantastic. There are a lot of WR in the 1-2 range so someone has to fall.

Lewis is an intriguing prospect that i think can offer a lot for any NFL team. He looks like he could be a real stud.

Only concern is the double pick on the O-line. Obviously you guys went for BPA which i completely agree with but i would like to see maybe a CB or NT to replace one of them.

have no idea about the 7th rounder.

Overall a very nice mock that offers real x-factor and playmaking ability to the team!

would have liked to analysis this earlier but i have had a little on my plate recently.[/QUOTE]

much appreciated mate :wesmantexanfan:

I see in several recent mocks OG in 2nd is becoming increasingly poplular among Texan fans & for good reason. We lost two starters. Texans want you to believe Butler who was hurt all last season & Caldwell a back-up since drafted are ready to go. I certainly hope so, but who backs them up with comparable quality reps, Schaub, Foster & offense need to take the next step in playoffs? Can't afford free agents, at least quality starting ones, so answer has to be the draft, hence the double hit. This way the projected starters can prepare as expected for the upcoming season & rookies have some quality foundation work & developmental time learning before being thrown into the fire.

You have no idea about a 7th rounder but then who does? you did mention that you like to address NT position so here you go. Really similar prospect to Dontari Poe in build, strength & agility for a big man. I'll say this we would rather take a shot on a guy with potential flyer in the 7th rd. than take that gamble on a guy in the 1st round.

I agree with the CB thing. Believe me we discussed one every round, what kept it from happening this year was the promising talent already stocked on Texan roster combined with it being a down year for position as a group. Doesn't mean they're not going to be some diamonds shine later but most likely they will be scooped up early, or just don't fit the Texan character/size profile. As a group we found them somewhat sketchy & would be forced to make a selection based more on need than value. If a guy like Josh Norman falls into the 4th rd. however I would be very tempted as I'm sure my draft partners would to add a CB.......
 
TE - Currently we have

OD - who will be 30 years old this year, is in the second year of a 4 year 22 million dollar contract, has missed 14 games in the last 3 years, only has 5 total TD's in the last 2 years and has never averaged over 13 yards a catch in any of his 6 seasons as a pro.

Garret Graham - 1 catch in his career. Enough said!!!!!

But in your infinite wisdom we don't need anymore pass catching tight ends. :lol:


OLB - Currently we have

Connar Barwin - A young third year stud that had a career year last year with 11.5 sacks.

Brooks Reed - Another young stud that had 9.5 sacks last year.


And 2 promising young guys who have at least shown flashes of the talent it takes to become solid depth at OLB in Nading and Braman.

But again in your infinite wisdom this is where we should spend our first round pick? On a player who will seldom see the field and will probably only really contribute this year if there is an injury? :wadepalm: We dont need to spend our first round pick on this type a player, but if you have to have one then take one in the 3rd-4th rounds. Don't waste a first round pick on one. Use that on a player that can and will have the most impact on the team. A player like Fleener that because of the mismatches he will create and his abilities, will make an instant impact.

Arguing with you is pointless as all you try to do is belittle people and their opinions.
 
I think there are better options to strengthen the passing game than fleener in the first. And honestly, the passing game hasn't been bad. I don't think it's been great, but it's been very good when schaub has been at qb.

I'd rather trade down or draft worthy over fleener and grab receiving help in the second and/or later.
Come on Rey! lol Who is the better passing option in first? Passing game with or without Matt needs a major upgrade, even the "wise" ESPN & John McClain thinks so.

Trade? Ok, who and what? We have committed to our guys, tell us yours. :dancer:
 
I think there are better options to strengthen the passing game than fleener in the first. And honestly, the passing game hasn't been bad. I don't think it's been great, but it's been very good when schaub has been at qb.

I'd rather trade down or draft worthy over fleener and grab receiving help in the second and/or later.
Dupe Sorry!
 
Last edited:
FIFTH ROUND, #161: Ryan Lindley, QB San Diego State. 6’3 3/4” 229, 32 ¼” arm length, hand size 10 1/8”
Looking at the Texans roster, there are only 2 QBs listed- Schaub and Yates. Matt is coming off a serious injury, and will be a highly paid free agent after this coming season, while we all like Yates, it is simply not prudent to put all of our eggs in one basket. Therefore, we have decided to draft Ryan Lindley at this spot in the draft. Lindley boasts excellent size for the position, and is quite adept at throwing on the move, but is even better in the pocket. A 4 year starter, Lindley exhibits great maturity. So why does he fall this far? The answer is simple- competition and accuracy. Playing in the MWC is obviously not the same as playing in the SEC, and as for accuracy, Lindley needs some work. The ability is there, but he is just not consistent. All in all, he should be a great 3rd QB this season, with the potential to be a starting QB down the line. Texans need to use Kubiak’s feel & developmental abilities @ the QB position, someday instead of just letting coveted free agents walk, where they have depth these young, developed QB’s have great trading value down the road if they so choose.

SIXTH ROUND, #195: Randy Bullock, Kicker Texas A&M. 5’10” 205, 100 PAT% 2009-10
Bullock won the Lou Groza Award as College Football’s top kicker in 2011. 29 of 33 Field Goal attempts made, increasing FG 87.9% from 76.2% in 2010 while increasing length. His trend line is a positive one, that is important to a kicker’s confidence & proving track record based on sound fundamentals moving forward to the NFL. His range is currently already in the 50 yard territory with a 52 yard FG this past season setting a new personal best . With strengthening & more technical work he can be expected to extend his range into the mid to high 50 yard range on a consistent basis. Scouts came away impressed with his leg strength both at the Combine & Pro-Day. http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/03/texans-check-out-texas-am-kicker/ Randy already looks the part of a NFL kicker, both quality of character, work ethic & maturity. We feel it’s time special teams coach grooms a young 10-15 year starter to become the Texans long term answer & closer.

SEVENTH ROUND, #233: Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, NT Kent State. 6’3” 334, 35 reps 31” vertical
Our last pick is going towards a developmental player that flashed brilliance at the college level, but needs to be coached up to his talents. Yes, the Texans are now using a system where the NT is a penetrator, and that is not really Kitchen’s game. However, Wade has proven over the years to design his scheme around his talent. And we believe Kitchen has talent, it is just a matter of uncovering it. Kitchen’s biggest strength is, well, his strength. He is a bear to move inside, and consistently occupies 2 blockers, effectively neutralizing the run game. There was a very noticeable difference when Kitchen missed a couple games due to a dislocated elbow, and when he was in the game. Even if he never pans out to be a starting caliber player (it is a 7th rounder, after all), he should still be a useful player in short-yardage situations.
[/QUOTE]



Well done Guys, great mock.

double dipping on offence in the first 2 rounds would be impressive. it would add a whole different dimension to our offence and if it fell this way i would be pretty happy.

Fleener is one of the 3 or 4 players i would be very happy with if we took in the first. He gives our offence are real playmaking ability. And I'm not to concerned about his blocking. It isn't great but for a receiver first TE is pretty good.

Quick has been rising up boards fast and if he could be had in the 2nd that would be fantastic. There are a lot of WR in the 1-2 range so someone has to fall.

Lewis is an intriguing prospect that i think can offer a lot for any NFL team. He looks like he could be a real stud.

Only concern is the double pick on the O-line. Obviously you guys went for BPA which i completely agree with but i would like to see maybe a CB or NT to replace one of them.

have no idea about the 7th rounder.

Overall a very nice mock that offers real x-factor and playmaking ability to the team!

would have liked to analysis this earlier but i have had a little on my plate recently.[/QUOTE]Thanks for compliments! Beerlover pretty much said it all but I'd like to add we all had favorites at each round but we also have to consider Texans' philosophy and history. For example Nose tackles: while we want bigger and stronger, this position was not a pet door allowing RBs to go through whenever. Why use a 4th on a player who basically going to sit and learn? We realize there are better candidates higher but that means disregarding the position we took instead.

Oline: we ask that readers evaluate the skills that allow our selections to play more than one position. Hopefully, Butler & Caldwell will do well on right side and Smith returns to pre-2011 form. If not, we have to have someone preparing.

Corners? One of my favorite positions! I have advocated trades, free agents and draft guys. Not sure if you were on MB when I went thru my rant after Kareem Jackson was picked. Hint--it wasn't pretty. One thing BL, 65 and I could not overlook, coaching has made improvements during the brief time it had. McCain really came to play forcing my guy Brandon Harris to remain off field. KJ did much better to the point that Allen was not brought back. As BL stated if someone drops that is obviously an improvement, we'd be happy to go there. We are interested to see how Harris and Roc Carmichael step up this season.

Anyway we do appreciate your thoughts and comments. DRAFT ON!!
 
Blake, my brother, mussop and i had this exact conversation 2 weeks ago in "mussops mock". We posted a lot of the same stats and arrguments without changing anyones mind. Dont think your gonna have much luck either. The fleener arrgument is about as productive as democrats vs republicans. Some people were just to impressed with new englands offense last year.
 
Hate to say it, but any CB that can help keep KJ off the field is a good thing. Afterall, Jason Allen was a below avg CB, that the coaches put on the field when the defense needed a stop instead of KJ.

That speaks volumes to me, if KJ was all of that Allen should have never seen the field. I dont expect much improvement from KJ. You cant teach KJ to have deep speed, or to be a ballhawk. He's a #2 CB on a defense like the Lions. But he should be a #3 CB on a good defense. IMHO
 
Come on Rey! lol Who is the better passing option in first? Passing game with or without Matt needs a major upgrade, even the "wise" ESPN & John McClain thinks so.

Trade? Ok, who and what? We have committed to our guys, tell us yours. :dancer:

I didn't specify first round. And when I say better I don't necessarily mean better players, but rather better options/value.

I think there will be more talented players than fleener on the board. And I honestly believe Casey is ready to be the second TE and play the role that a lot of people envisioned him playing. I'd much rather have casey on the field in the slot or as a second TE than fleener.

IMO, there are players that will be available that can probably help the team more especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Who are my guys?

I'd rather have hill, worthy, mcclellin, Hightower, randle, wright, Gilmore, zeitler, Alshon in no particular order. Not to mention a trade down.

I think if we are looking for another pass catching TE we'd be better served taking Ladarius green in the 3rd or 4th.

I think there are many reasons to not take fleener in the first.
 
. Some people were just to impressed with new englands offense last year.

I think something people fail to look at when they look at graham and gronk is who was throwing those guys the ball and the type of offenses those teams run.

We are very balanced offensively so 1, a lot of those guys wouldn't get those same opportunities here and 2 schaub is good but he's no brady or brees.

Give me Casey as the second TE and I'm good with what we have there. I actually like what I've seen out of graham too. If we take a TE it shouldn't be until the 3rd or 4th at the earliest.
 
I think there will be more talented players than fleener on the board. And I honestly believe Casey is ready to be the second TE and play the role that a lot of people envisioned him playing. I'd much rather have casey on the field in the slot or as a second TE than fleener.

No one on the Texans has mentioned moving Casey back to TE. Don't see how having Casey and OD on the field at the same time would be better than having Casey, OD and Fleener.


IMO, there are players that will be available that can probably help the team more especially on the defensive side of the ball.


Don't necessarily disagree with their being defensive players available that could help more.

Who are my guys?

I'd rather have hill, worthy, mcclellin, Hightower, randle, wright, Gilmore, zeitler, Alshon in no particular order. Not to mention a trade down.

hill To big a gamble IMO
worthy is defiantly worthy
mcclellin My guy but the concussions scare me a little
Hightower defiantly
randle have him and Fleener tied as prospects but Fleener wins because of Schaub.
wright not rated as high as Fleener because of speed and height.
Gilmore can't see him lasting this long.
zeitler another one of my guys from the beginning. 10 year starter well worth the 26 pick.
Alshon wouldn't draft him before the 5th round. Too many issues.




I think if we are looking for another pass catching TE we'd be better served taking Ladarius green in the 3rd or 4th.

Maybe not a bad idea.

I think there are many reasons to not take fleener in the first.

I see many reasons why taking Fleener in the first would be a good idea.



I think something people fail to look at when tey look at graham and gronk is who was throwing those guys the ball and the type of offenses those teams run.

First let me say that NE has ZERO influence on why I think Fleener would be a good pick by us. Now, I think some people are forgetting who our QB is, what his weaknesses are and how much we utilize the 2 TE set.


We are very balanced offensively so 1, a lot of those guys wouldn't get those same opportunities here and 2 schaub is good but he's no brady or brees.

Schaub is no Brady or Breeze thats for sure. He is one of the worst deep ball throwers when compared to any of the top 10 or 15 QB's. This is why we need someone like Fleener who can create miss matches in the red zone.

Give me Casey as the second TE and I'm good with what we have there.

Again NO ONE has said Casey is moving TE. Until then I'm going to assume he's not.

I actually like what I've seen out of graham too.

What the hell have you seen? He's had one catch in two years.

If we take a TE it shouldn't be until the 3rd or 4th at the earliest.

This is what is most likely going to happen.
 
5th round? Really? Other than weight fluxuation, what are the "many issues" Jeffery has?

Sorry should of said to many red flags. Scouts have said he plays the game hard but nothing else. Sorry I can't trust a player with a high draft pick that shows up his last year before going into the draft out of shape. Although I know you already know this, here is some info about him that is well documented.

Jeffery caught just 49 passes in 2011, and appeared to be out-of-shape for most of the season. There were rumors that he ballooned to 250 pounds, though broadcasters politely referred to him as "230+ pounds." Whatever his exact weight, he was clearly carrying the kind of baggage that would spark pregnancy rumors if he were a Hollywood starlet.

Jeffery showed up at the scouting combine in great shape, and he arrived at his Pro Day at a tight 213 pounds, allowing him to run a sub 4.5 forty. Jeffery proved that he can get in shape when he has to, but questions linger after 2011: with his ping-ponging production and waistline, are we looking at a top prospect who overcame a rough patch, or the male Oprah Winfrey?

Jeffery lacks quick-cutting ability, and he spent much of 2011 failing to get separation from defensive backs because he couldn't make tight cuts on his short routes. Weight issues were probably a factor, but even in 2010 route sharpness was not his strong suit.

South Carolina ran a lot of tunnel screens to get the ball to Jeffery, but Jeffery lacks open-field niftiness, so those plays were usually little more than long handoffs for three or four yards. Jeffery and the Gamecocks suffered through an ugly five-game run late in the season when he essentially disappeared from the offense: he had 10 catches for 84 yards in one four-game stretch, interrupted by a five-catch effort against the mighty Citadel.

This was a time of transition for South Carolina, as the team was breaking Conner Shaw in at quarterback after the Stephen Garcia meltdown, but the team really needed its top receiver to be part of the solution, not a pudgy problem.

Scouting reports on Jeffery's blocking vary widely. He may be an example of a "camera's on" blocker, ratcheting up his effort level when he knows he will appear in a highlight. (See: Moss, Randy).


Its more than just fluctuating weight. What is his mindset to allow this to happen at such an important time in his football career? That is a huge concern for a high draft pick IMO. How can you feel comfortable using such a valuable asset not knowing if you will be able to count on him being mentally prepared and in shape to help the team when you really need him? To me that is a bigger red flag than a college player getting a DUI.
 
How can you feel comfortable using such a valuable asset not knowing if you will be able to count on him being mentally prepared and in shape to help the team when you really need him? To me that is a bigger red flag than a college player getting a DUI.
But you said 5th round. Was that hyperbole? Not a 1st round pick, okay. But not even a 4th round selection on a dynamic WR with NFL measurables?

Despite all of the "red flags" Jeffery has more big plays than just about any WR in this draft. I would love to draft the guy in the 2nd, because he would have a huge chip on his shoulder throughout his rookie contract. Some team's going to get a 80 catch, 1200 yard WR in the 2nd round this year.
 
But you said 5th round. Was that hyperbole? Not a 1st round pick, okay. But not even a 4th round selection on a dynamic WR with NFL measurables?

Despite all of the "red flags" Jeffery has more big plays than just about any WR in this draft. I would love to draft the guy in the 2nd, because he would have a huge chip on his shoulder throughout his rookie contract. Some team's going to get a 80 catch, 1200 yard WR in the 2nd round this year.

Alot of that has to do with this particular draft class. There are a whole bunch of guys I really like in the mid rounds (3,4) that I really want over someone with questionable work ethic.

I love the hard working, high motor guys that have a passion for the game and loath players with talent that act entitled. Just my thing I guess.
 
Lots of players boost their stock due to the combine.

Kind of weird to talk about his lack of production and at the same time pimp fleener.


I think if Hannah was in that system with luck throwing him passes he'd have been more productive.

The NFL is full of good te's. Almost every team has one. Sorry, but I don't see the value of us taking fleener in the first.

I think there are other options for TE that can be just as productive in our system.

Hannah was in a spread system with Landry Jones throwing it to him, who's probably a first round QB next year. Fleener was in a pro offense with great balance.

Good mock, don't really like using a 6th round on a K tho, especially when we just used a 5th on a third stringer. if randy is there at the 7th round, great. if not, there are other kickers id be fine with as long it isn't kris brown or neil rackers.
 
Hannah was in a spread system with Landry Jones throwing it to him, who's probably a first round QB next year. Fleener was in a pro offense with great balance.
.

That is a good point, but it doesn't really mean much.

I think most would agree that luck was the better qb and pro style offended tend to utilize the TE more than spread offenses which was exactly my point.
 
That is a good point, but it doesn't really mean much.

I think most would agree that luck was the better qb and pro style offended tend to utilize the TE more than spread offenses which was exactly my point.

Hanna wasn't used like a traditional TE in that offense.
 
Hannah was in a spread system with Landry Jones throwing it to him, who's probably a first round QB next year. Fleener was in a pro offense with great balance.

Good mock, don't really like using a 6th round on a K tho, especially when we just used a 5th on a third stringer. if randy is there at the 7th round, great. if not, there are other kickers id be fine with as long it isn't kris brown or neil rackers.
We have to have a kicker and if we can get the best in nation in 6th round why not? We have to compete with too many other teams in UDFA to chance that.
 
One NFL scout suggested that Stanford TE Coby Fleener "might be the most overrated guy in the draft" because he doesn't block and is more of a buildup-speed threat as a pass catcher.

"He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," the scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. (Fleener) might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player." The scout may be being overly critical of Fleener, but his first-round buzz seems to have died down in recent weeks. Apr 22 - 3:15 PM
--------------------------

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Worth noting Charley Casserly has echoed scout's eval of Fleener as "straight-line, buildup player" lacking "quick-twitch" athleticism.
 
I see many reasons why taking Fleener in the first would be a good idea.





This is what is most likely going to happen.

I know this is a radical concept, but I actually like what graham has done in pre season.

I didn't specify regular season, you did.

I guess fleener is a terrible option by those standards since he has 0 NFL catches.
 
One NFL scout suggested that Stanford TE Coby Fleener "might be the most overrated guy in the draft" because he doesn't block and is more of a buildup-speed threat as a pass catcher.

"He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," the scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. (Fleener) might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player." The scout may be being overly critical of Fleener, but his first-round buzz seems to have died down in recent weeks. Apr 22 - 3:15 PM
--------------------------

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Worth noting Charley Casserly has echoed scout's eval of Fleener as "straight-line, buildup player" lacking "quick-twitch" athleticism.

Fleener is going to eat teams alive in the seams.

I don't think he'll be all that with the ball in his hands and u don't see him as a great jump ball guy.
 
One NFL scout suggested that Stanford TE Coby Fleener "might be the most overrated guy in the draft" because he doesn't block and is more of a buildup-speed threat as a pass catcher.

"He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," the scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. (Fleener) might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player." The scout may be being overly critical of Fleener, but his first-round buzz seems to have died down in recent weeks. Apr 22 - 3:15 PM
--------------------------

Evan Silva ‏ @evansilva Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Worth noting Charley Casserly has echoed scout's eval of Fleener as "straight-line, buildup player" lacking "quick-twitch" athleticism.
Why didn't you post the comments from the second scout that was mentioned? Almost all mocks I've seen have Fleener in late first to top 8 or so of second.
 
I know this is a radical concept, but I actually like what graham has done in pre season.

I didn't specify regular season, you did.

I guess fleener is a terrible option by those standards since he has 0 NFL catches.

Please enlighten us, what is it that Graham has done in the "PRE-SEASON" that has impressed you?

For the bolded Seriously Rey, seriously? Cmon you are better than this.
 
Fleener is going to eat teams alive in the seams.

I don't think he'll be all that with the ball in his hands and u don't see him as a great jump ball guy.

HUH??? Are you saying he won't be a great jump ball guy or are you asking someone if thats what they think? I'm confused.
 
Please enlighten us, what is it that Graham has done in the "PRE-SEASON" that has impressed you?

For the bolded Seriously Rey, seriously? Cmon you are better than this.

Grahm has done well in pre season.

Go look at the last pre season game from this past year. He did very well catching and blocking.

I think he almost had 100 yards receiving.

I can't see what's bolded, I'm on Tapatalk.

But I assume it's the fleener bit?

My point is that Grahm has shown more on the NFL level than any rookie TE has. Doesn't mean he will be better, but my point is that proving it in a real NFL game shouldn't be the only criteria. You can never prove anything if you never get a chance to.

Same as Casey.

And Casey played some TE last year. Vickers was the starting fb to end the season.
 
HUH??? Are you saying he won't be a great jump ball guy or are you asking someone if thats what they think? I'm confused.

That "u" should have been an "I". My typing gets wonky when I use Tapatalk.

But no, I dont see fleener as a jump ball guy. Not that he can't do it, but I don't think he will be looked at to do it consistently like gronk or Grahm or gates.

I didn't see him doing that a lot in college.
 
This just in...

"According to multiple league sources, the Colts have ceased all talks with Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck and are seriously entertaining other possibilities with the first pick overall in the 2012 NFL Draft."

Upon being questioned by reporters early Monday morning Colts GM Ryan Grigson had some revealing comments, "To be honest we've run into some contract disputes that we may not be able to overcome with Andrew. As a result we began looking for the next best player. We put a lot of value in our internet scouting department and thanks to contributions from message board posters like mussop, we've decided to draft Coby Fleener with the first overall pick."

Colts head coach Chuck Pagano conducted a telephone interview with various local media and commented, " Fleener gave us the best season when we simulated next year on our madden game station. Besides, did you see New England's offense last year? We really want to overhaul our entire offense so we can be just like them."

In response to this breaking news our analyst and former GM Charley Casserly was critical of the colts, "Hey! See. You have to get value if you can find value, see? What do you do when other teams place a second round value on a player you want? Well you draft him before the second round, see? Now I like Andrew Luck ,but I wouldnt place a high value on the Fleener kid see? He's not nearly the talent of a Philip Buchanon. Hey!"


www.stupiddraftinfatuation.com


Mussop, your gonna give Fleener a career ending hernia cause you wont get off his sac.
 
"Several sources" tell SI's Tony Pauline that the Texans are seriously considering drafting Stanford TE Coby Fleener with the 26th overall pick.
Pauline also reports that "the other team showing a lot of interest" in Fleener is the 49ers, who draft 30th. Fleener would give Houston an upgrade on Joel Dreessen as a No. 2 tight end. He'd do the same over Delanie Walker in San Francisco, although Walker is a far superior blocker. Fleener doesn't block. Apr 23 - 11:35 AM
Source: TFY Draft Insider
 
I posted what was written on Rotoworld: http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7418/coby-fleener

I don't know what "second scout" you're talking about?
Here is the quote that Rotoworld quoted from:

1. COBY FLEENER Stanford 6-6 247 4.52 1-2
Reminded one scout of former Cowboy Jay Novacek. "The movement type guy - tough guy you can wham-block with," that scout said. "A smart guy with a real good feel for route running." Compared by others to Todd Heap. "You know, the vertical, big plays, catch the ball and run," said Dominik. "He's more of a long stretch tight end." Named by his mother after former Redskins T Joe Jacoby, whose jersey she spotted on TV. Came out of Joliet (Ill.) Catholic to start 16 of 51 games for the Cardinal, finishing with 96 catches for 1,543 yards (16.1) and 18 TDs. "He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," another scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. He might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player. All these reports about him being an athlete and this and that, they're assuming that because he ran fast. He's really just a red-zone, jump-ball player."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Your quote and the remainder is taken from Milwaulki, Wisconsin Journal Sentinal. I think it is interesting that the negative scout said teammate Levine Toilolo is the better TE but the article said scout was quoted in has Fleener listed #1 and the other guy is not listed top 20 TEs.
To compare Fleener 2011: 34/ 667 19.6 avg 10 TDs
Toilolo 2011: 25/343 13.7 6TDs

These stats are why others have said that Stanford ran a very balanced offense.
 
Grahm has done well in pre season.

Go look at the last pre season game from this past year. He did very well catching and blocking.

I think he almost had 100 yards receiving.

I can't see what's bolded, I'm on Tapatalk.

But I assume it's the fleener bit?

My point is that Grahm has shown more on the NFL level than any rookie TE has. Doesn't mean he will be better, but my point is that proving it in a real NFL game shouldn't be the only criteria. You can never prove anything if you never get a chance to.

Same as Casey.

And Casey played some TE last year. Vickers was the starting fb to end the season.

Graham's best game was the last one against Minnesota - you know, the one game where we were shut out all year. Six catches for 71 yds. He had two catches for 19 yds in the other three preseason games.

I dunno. I'd be more comfortable if we had a 6-6 guy like Fleener for Matt Schaub to target in the redzone.

Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to trading back for more picks if none of the stud WRs were available @ #26.
 
Here is the quote that Rotoworld quoted from:

1. COBY FLEENER Stanford 6-6 247 4.52 1-2
Reminded one scout of former Cowboy Jay Novacek. "The movement type guy - tough guy you can wham-block with," that scout said. "A smart guy with a real good feel for route running." Compared by others to Todd Heap. "You know, the vertical, big plays, catch the ball and run," said Dominik. "He's more of a long stretch tight end." Named by his mother after former Redskins T Joe Jacoby, whose jersey she spotted on TV. Came out of Joliet (Ill.) Catholic to start 16 of 51 games for the Cardinal, finishing with 96 catches for 1,543 yards (16.1) and 18 TDs. "He wasn't even the best tight end on their team," another scout said. "No. 11 (sophomore Levine Toilolo), that's the real deal. He might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He's awful as a blocker. Despite his workout numbers he's really not a quick-twitch, dynamic-moving guy. He's a straight-line, build-up player. All these reports about him being an athlete and this and that, they're assuming that because he ran fast. He's really just a red-zone, jump-ball player."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
quote]

See the red:

HEL-LOOO! Isn't that what we want? ...a red zone, jump-ball player. The scout makes that sound like a bad thing.
:wadepalm:

Sounds like the perfect guy to run fade routes to me.
 
That "u" should have been an "I". My typing gets wonky when I use Tapatalk.

But no, I dont see fleener as a jump ball guy. Not that he can't do it, but I don't think he will be looked at to do it consistently like gronk or Grahm or gates.

I didn't see him doing that a lot in college.

His vertical along with his height put his hands at ELEVEN FEET when he jumps.
 
This just in...

"According to multiple league sources, the Colts have ceased all talks with Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck and are seriously entertaining other possibilities with the first pick overall in the 2012 NFL Draft."

Upon being questioned by reporters early Monday morning Colts GM Ryan Grigson had some revealing comments, "To be honest we've run into some contract disputes that we may not be able to overcome with Andrew. As a result we began looking for the next best player. We put a lot of value in our internet scouting department and thanks to contributions from message board posters like mussop, we've decided to draft Coby Fleener with the first overall pick."

Colts head coach Chuck Pagano conducted a telephone interview with various local media and commented, " Fleener gave us the best season when we simulated next year on our madden game station. Besides, did you see New England's offense last year? We really want to overhaul our entire offense so we can be just like them."

In response to this breaking news our analyst and former GM Charley Casserly was critical of the colts, "Hey! See. You have to get value if you can find value, see? What do you do when other teams place a second round value on a player you want? Well you draft him before the second round, see? Now I like Andrew Luck ,but I wouldnt place a high value on the Fleener kid see? He's not nearly the talent of a Philip Buchanon. Hey!"


www.stupiddraftinfatuation.com


Mussop, your gonna give Fleener a career ending hernia cause you wont get off his sac.
I take it back, you are near sighted. :bender:
 
His vertical along with his height put his hands at ELEVEN FEET when he jumps.

I understand that, but I didn't see him doing a lot of that in games.

Those measurables don't always translate to the game.

Im not saying he can't do it, I just don't see him as that type of athlete. Doesn't seem all that sudden to me.

I think he has big play potential. I think he will be a good vertical guy and he will eat teams in the seams. But I don't see the all around receiving ability I'd like out of a first round TE that hasn't shown to be that great of a blocker.

I like fleener. Just not for us at 26.
 
Fyi. Last night on abc's draft special Kubiak told Bob Allen he thinks of Casey as both a full back and a tight end.

A couple of posters in this thread rested arrguments on the assumption Casey would not be used as a tight end. I know hindsight is 20/20 and im not sure anyone with the organization previously revealed this...but its out there now.

Considering Casey's history and skill set, this wasn't a big surprise for some of us.
 
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