Will the NFL soon start wearing hoop skirts?

[Dread-Head]

When I was a kid watching the Oilers play it was not uncommon to see great QB's like Tarkington, Fouts, Staubach, John Elway, Bernie Kosar, Dan Marino, Mr. Warren Moon and Bradshaw taking bone crunching hits a good five or six seconds after they threw the ball. They only called roughing the passer if it was quite apparent that you were damned near trying to decapitate the guy.
After the death of the Late Great Pete Roselle (May he rest in peace) the league somehow WUSSIFIED. If you run into a QB after he's let go of the ball you're flagged for roughing the passer. Wimps like Eli Manning, and Toni Romo wouldn't have made it in football before the year 2000. Now a new cadre of whiners are crying that precious little receivers are getting hit too hard.
Hmmm. Lynn Swann, Mike Ditka, Chris Collinsworth, Steve Largent,Ernest Givens, Golden Richards, Daryl Johnson, Dwight Clark, Amad Rashad and DOZENS of other guys who played receiver and tight end took hits that still make them wince when they watched them today, yet they're all walking and most of them still speak in complete sentences. My point? Hits are part of football. Men like Dick Butkis, Merlin Olsen, Alex Karras, Jack Hamm, "Mean" Joe Green, Howie Long, Bubba Smith, Rosie Grier, Fred "The Hammer" Williamson, Lawrence Taylor and Deacon Jones in their respective day were delivering hard hits and playing smash mouth football. When they were excessive, they were fined but for the most part the league simply let them play and NEEDS to return to that policy.
If the league keeps wussing things up they might as well make all teams uniforms different shades of PINK, make them wear tiny dresses, and instead of tackling the guy with the ball simply tagging him and then going into therapy with him to talk about your feelings over sympathy tea because he felt you violated his space when you touched him. I THOUGHT this was a man's game.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101019/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_helmet_to_helmet_hits

 

[gtexan02]

As our research into the negative effects of what is at its basest a game continue to unveil some scary, horrific, lasting consequences, the rules and safety have started to change accordingly. Players are bigger, faster, and stronger. Salaries are higher than ever. And for the first time, we have a clear picture of what the lasting consequences of these changes is.

I can't believe people start threads like this. These players are humans first, and nfl players second. Football is still plenty violent, plenty competitive. Are there some sissy calls every once in a while? Absolutely. Would I trade those calls for more paralysis, more permanent brain damage, etc? No. And frankly, I find it pretty depressing that anyone would.

One of the dirtiest players in the history of the game, Rodney Harrison, said that he never took the illegal hit rules seriously until he was suspended. This new rule is going to suspend players who make illegal hits using their helmets and attacking other players head areas. I can't believe you are complaining about that.

Edit: Here are some stats for you:

reported more problems with memory, concentration, speech impediments, headaches and other neurological problems

20.2 percent said they had been found to have depression. That is three times the rate of players who have not sustained concussions.

Alzheimer's disease or similar memory-related diseases appear to have been diagnosed in the league's former players vastly more often than in the national population - including a rate of 19 times the normal rate for men ages 30 through 49.

http://www.nytimes.com/info/concussions-in-football/

 

[Texan_Bill]

Mamby Pamby Land!!

 

[silvrhand]

It's the concussion guys, come on people can't keep taking shots in the head at the current speed/size/strength these guys are getting. The long term effects are right up there with boxers if not worse now.

 

[Goatcheese]

I think having a round table where players can discuss their feelings after each play would be good for the game. Just think, Mack and that Chiefs DL who grabbed his little guy could have sat down and discussed their feelings(mental you pervs) about the incident.

Just because this is a fight doesn't mean we can't be civil. *stabs helpless guy laying on the ground in the heart with a spear*

 

[mootini]

Mamby Pamby Land!!

Exactly!!!! Hello people this is football....we might as well turn the NFL into flag football.

 

[Double Barrel]

This thread is sad and pathetic, IMO. These rules are designed for PLAYER SAFETY. But some folks need to see serious injuries for their entertainment fix, I guess.

I also notice those that call it a "man's game" aren't out there taking those brutal hits.

 

[Dread-Head]

As our research into the negative effects of what is at its basest a game continue to unveil some scary, horrific, lasting consequences, the rules and safety have started to change accordingly. Players are bigger, faster, and stronger. Salaries are higher than ever. And for the first time, we have a clear picture of what the lasting consequences of these changes is.

I can't believe people start threads like this. These players are humans first, and nfl players second. Football is still plenty violent, plenty competitive. Are there some sissy calls every once in a while? Absolutely. Would I trade those calls for more paralysis, more permanent brain damage, etc? No. And frankly, I find it pretty depressing that anyone would.

One of the dirtiest players in the history of the game, Rodney Harrison, said that he never took the illegal hit rules seriously until he was suspended. This new rule is going to suspend players who make illegal hits using their helmets and attacking other players head areas. I can't believe you are complaining about that.

Edit: Here are some stats for you:






http://www.nytimes.com/info/concussions-in-football/

Man. It's a good thing I like, respect and admire many people on this board lest I'd be kinda hurt via the questioning of my mental state...which we all know to be questionable. Okay, here goes.

In the course of my life I've had maybe six concussions the last of which I suffered last year while skating. Only ONE of them was football related. My point? Had I never put on pads and a helmet I would have STILL suffered five concussions.

Anyone with half a brain knows that football is a contact sport and there exist a very REAL possibility that you might sustain a head injury OR break a bone. You KNOW that going in and if you don't maybe you should sit back and WATCH the game or simply participate in a sport which doesn't place an emphasis on power and speed.

Last I checked according to Newton's laws: "objects in motion tended to remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force." If you're that object in motion and I'm that outside force, there is a good chance that (Mass x Acceleration) means there's a pretty good chance that one of us will smart from the collision. As was the case with Mr. Robinson over the weekend we BOTH might be on the ground.
It's the nature of the game. These guys decided to play football knowing that. No one forced them at gun point to play. Helmet to helmet should be done away with, but the fru-fru, girly girl, "You looked at Tom Brady and made him cry" penalties are F'ing up the game.

 

[Blake]

When I was a kid watching the Oilers play it was not uncommon to see great QB's like Tarkington, Fouts, Staubach, John Elway, Bernie Kosar, Dan Marino, Mr. Warren Moon and Bradshaw taking bone crunching hits a good five or six seconds after they threw the ball. They only called roughing the passer if it was quite apparent that you were damned near trying to decapitate the guy.
After the death of the Late Great Pete Roselle (May he rest in peace) the league somehow WUSSIFIED. If you run into a QB after he's let go of the ball you're flagged for roughing the passer. Wimps like Eli Manning, and Toni Romo wouldn't have made it in football before the year 2000. Now a new cadre of whiners are crying that precious little receivers are getting hit too hard.
Hmmm. Lynn Swann, Mike Ditka, Chris Collinsworth, Steve Largent,Ernest Givens, Golden Richards, Daryl Johnson, Dwight Clark, Amad Rashad and DOZENS of other guys who played receiver and tight end took hits that still make them wince when they watched them today, yet they're all walking and most of them still speak in complete sentences. My point? Hits are part of football. Men like Dick Butkis, Merlin Olsen, Alex Karras, Jack Hamm, "Mean" Joe Green, Howie Long, Bubba Smith, Rosie Grier, Fred "The Hammer" Williamson, Lawrence Taylor and Deacon Jones in their respective day were delivering hard hits and playing smash mouth football. When they were excessive, they were fined but for the most part the league simply let them play and NEEDS to return to that policy.
If the league keeps wussing things up they might as well make all teams uniforms different shades of PINK, make them wear tiny dresses, and instead of tackling the guy with the ball simply tagging him and then going into therapy with him to talk about your feelings over sympathy tea because he felt you violated his space when you touched him. I THOUGHT this was a man's game.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101019/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_helmet_to_helmet_hits

Have you actually researched the long term effects of multiple concussions from these types of hits? Its really kind of scary. Read up on players like Merril Hoge.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/11/29/1177823/hoge-shares-chilling-story-on-post

I think the NFL owes it to the players to protect them from a few assholes who would rather torpedo tackle and use the helmet as a weapon, rahter than form tackle and use the helmet for what it was intended for, Protection.

 

[Dread-Head]

Exactly!!!! Hello people this is football....we might as well turn the NFL into flag football.

Instead of Hank Williams singing "Are ya readyforsome...FOOTBALL!" for Monday Night Football, they should just get Cool & The Gang to sing "Ladies Night."

 

[Mr teX]

My thoughts exactly....pretty soon defensive players won't even be able to touch offensive players. I get it, concussions are becoming an increasing concern, but it is an unfortunate consequence of playing such a violent game & no matter how much legislation you try to put in, guys will still get them. I agree, stifer penalties will need to be handed out for obvious infractions, but those bang-bang hits where guys are getting jacked up are split 2nd & are a big part of playing defense..as in intimidation.

What i'm more concerned with is this trend of slanting the rules towards offensive players. Nearly every rule or increased attention to a rule in the last 10 or so years has primarily been to help offensive players.

-5 yard jam rule - direct result of Colts WR's complaining about the pats getting too rough with them in the playoffs in 2002..

Horsecollar rule - direct result of Roy Williams' tendency to tackle guys by the collar & finally came to a head when TO broke his leg.

- hitting a qb low - direct result of Brady getting rolled up on by pollard. - this 1 especially ticks me off b/c Palmer essentially had the same thing happen to him years prior & it wasn't until the golden boy got his knee shreaded that the league felt the had to do something about it.

- defenseless WR rule-

& now this..

 

[Dread-Head]

"Take this pink ribbon off my eyes. I'm exposed and it's no big surprise. Don't you think I know exactly who I am. This world is forcing me to hold your hand. Yes I am just a girl. Poor little old me, so don't let me out of your sight. Oh I am just a girl so pretty and petite so don't let me have any rights.

The moment that I step outside, so many reasons for me to run and hide. I can't do those little things I hold so dear. I can't do those little things...that I fear. Oh I'm just a girl I'd rather not be cause you won't let me drive late at night. Oh I'm just a girl guess I'm some kind of freak cause they often stare with their eyes.

I am just a girl...I am just a girl in the world. It's all that you'll let me be!"


:Quarterbacks and Receivers of the National Football League.

 

[Double Barrel]

My thoughts exactly....pretty soon defensive players won't even be able to touch offensive players. I get it, concussions are becoming an increasing concern, but it is an unfortunate consequence of playing such a violent game & no matter how much legislation you try to put in, guys will still get them. I agree, stifer penalties will need to be handed out for obvious infractions, but those bang-bang hits where guys are getting jacked up are split 2nd & are a big part of playing defense..as in intimidation.

What i'm more concerned with is this trend of slanting the rules towards offensive players. Nearly every rule or increased attention to a rule in the last 10 or so years has primarily been to help offensive players.

-5 yard jam rule - direct result of Colts WR's complaining about the pats getting too rough with them in the playoffs in 2002..

Horsecollar rule - direct result of Roy Williams' tendency to tackle guys by the collar & finally came to a head when TO broke his leg.

- hitting a qb low - direct result of Brady getting rolled up on by pollard. - this 1 especially ticks me off b/c Palmer essentially had the same thing happen to him years prior & it wasn't until the golden boy got his knee shreaded that the league felt the had to do something about it.

- defenseless WR rule-

& now this..

The bolded part is the entire point of this rule, IMO. I like big hits and tackles as much as the next guy, but some of them are clearly obvious that there is ill intent behind the hit. I have a hard time believing that a professional player cannot control his technique, so I cannot accept that spearing with helmets is accidental. It's malicious play and should be penalized accordingly.

 

[Texan_Bill]

This thread is sad and pathetic, IMO. These rules are designed for PLAYER SAFETY. But some folks need to see serious injuries for their entertainment fix, I guess.

I also notice those that call it a "man's game" aren't out there taking those brutal hits.

Make no mistake, we're not talking about serious injuries, i.e. Patrick Edwards compound fracture at Marshall last season. We're talking about rules that "baby" QB's and receivers. Dan Pastorini played with broken ribs for crying out loud. I think it was Jack Youngblood who once played with a broken leg.

I know concussions are a serious issue as I have been concussed more than a couple of times. I get that head trauma has many lasting effects that may not be realized for years to come. That said, these guys choose to play a violent sport. Truth be told, there are thousands of guys that would give up a testacle to play the game they love so much. It comes with the territory. Don't be the highest payed actor in Hollywood and then ***** because you get mobbed when you go out. It comes with the territory....

Now. After the diatribe I still think the NFL and the NFLPA need to do a lot better job of caring for those guys who gave life and limb to make the game what it is today, without the compensation today's players make.

*gets off *

 

[gtexan02]

"Take this pink ribbon off my eyes. I'm exposed and it's no big surprise. Don't you think I know exactly who I am. This world is forcing me to hold your hand. Yes I am just a girl. Poor little old me, so don't let me out of your sight. Oh I am just a girl so pretty and petite so don't let me have any rights.

The moment that I step outside, so many reasons for me to run and hide. I can't do those little things I hold so dear. I can't do those little things...that I fear. Oh I'm just a girl I'd rather not be cause you won't let me drive late at night. Oh I'm just a girl guess I'm some kind of freak cause they often stare with their eyes.

I am just a girl...I am just a girl in the world. It's all that you'll let me be!"


:Quarterbacks and Receivers of the National Football League.

I can't tell if youre trolling or if this is your response to a pretty serious debate?

This whole "you're not a man because back in the day..." stuff is pretty absurd. Is there something your insecure about?

Rules change as we learn more about the sport. Thats called evolution of player safety. We didnt know the lasting effects of certain behaviors, therefore there was no reason to outlaw them. Now we know, so we evolve.

Back in the day, we used to paint our houses with lead paint and use asbestos to insulate them. We now know that its dangerous to do so. Therefore we change. We adapt.

I understand the difference. The NFL is dangerous, and its a choice. You aren't forced into it.

However, its also a job. Employers in this country have a legal right to ensure the safest conditions possible for all their employees. Its like that across all businesses.

The NFL today is the best sport on the planet. I dont get what all the whining is about. Speaking of being a man...

 

[mootini]

Man. It's a good thing I like, respect and admire many people on this board lest I'd be kinda hurt via the questioning of my mental state...which we all know to be questionable. Okay, here goes.

In the course of my life I've had maybe six concussions the last of which I suffered last year while skating. Only ONE of them was football related. My point? Had I never put on pads and a helmet I would have STILL suffered five concussions.

Anyone with half a brain knows that football is a contact sport and there exist a very REAL possibility that you might sustain a head injury OR break a bone. You KNOW that going in and if you don't maybe you should sit back and WATCH the game or simply participate in a sport which doesn't place an emphasis on power and speed.

Last I checked according to Newton's laws: "objects in motion tended to remain in motion unless acted upon by an outside force." If you're that object in motion and I'm that outside force, there is a good chance that (Mass x Acceleration) means there's a pretty good chance that one of us will smart from the collision. As was the case with Mr. Robinson over the weekend we BOTH might be on the ground.
It's the nature of the game. These guys decided to play football knowing that. No one forced them at gun point to play. Helmet to helmet should be done away with, but the fru-fru, girly girl, "You looked at Tom Brady and made him cry" penalties are F'ing up the game.

I skate too...old guys rule! Football is a contact sport, always has... and the question, always will be? What's the fear for WR to go across the middle, knowing he won't be hit? How can you defend this?

 

[Texan_Bill]

I skate too...old guys rule! Football is a contact sport, always has... and the question, always will be? What's the fear for WR to go across the middle, knowing he won't be hit? How can you defend this?

Correction. Basketball is a contact sport. Football is a collision sport.

 

[gtexan02]

I skate too...old guys rule! Football is a contact sport, always has... and the question, always will be? What's the fear for WR to go across the middle, knowing he won't be hit? How can you defend this?

How does
We are going to suspend players who flagratly use their helmet to spear other defenless players in their helmet

translate to
WRs wont get hit?


There is some huge overreaction going on it seems...

 

[Texan_Bill]

Instead of Hank Williams singing "Are ya readyforsome...FOOTBALL!" for Monday Night Football, they should just get Cool & The Gang to sing "Ladies Night."

That was awesome!

 

[infantrycak]

The NFL is dangerous, and its a choice. You aren't forced into it.

However, its also a job.

Yup, there are lots of jobs which involve danger and folks voluntarily engage in those occupations - the military, oilfield work, crabbing, etc. Doesn't mean employers shouldn't provide safety equipment and good procedures for safety.

How does
We are going to suspend players who flagratly use their helmet to spear other defenless players in their helmet

translate to
WRs wont get hit?


There is some huge overreaction going on it seems...

It doesn't translate to that and this is an overreaction. QBs are still getting hammered with big blows despite defenders not being able to go low or leave their feet and pile drive. The devastating hits stuff is BS because it can't be defined adequately. The helmet to helmet rule isn't even a change and people act like the sky is falling. It's been around for years. The league is just trying to figure out how to make players follow it.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Yup, there are lots of jobs which involve danger and folks voluntarily engage in those occupations - the military, oilfield work, crabbing, etc. Doesn't mean employers shouldn't provide safety equipment and good procedures for safety.

Project Management! Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

It doesn't translate to that and this is an overreaction. QBs are still getting hammered with big blows despite defenders not being able to go low or leave their feet and pile drive. The devastating hits stuff is BS because it can't be defined adequately. The helmet to helmet rule isn't even a change and people act like the sky is falling. It's been around for years. The league is just trying to figure out how to make players follow it.

I'm pretty sure Dread's point is the long term wussificaiton of the game. The rule changes going back almost 20 years now. When recievers still had to be men. What kind of ridiculous numbers would Lynn Swann have put up with the rules in place today versus the muggings that he and receivers of the 60's, 70's and early 80's endured?


*******************

Dunta's hit was more about lack of fundamentals than anything. You are supposed to see what you hit. Dip your butt, NOT your head..

 

[TEXANRED]

This thread is sad and pathetic, IMO. These rules are designed for PLAYER SAFETY. But some folks need to see serious injuries for their entertainment fix, I guess.

I also notice those that call it a "man's game" aren't out there taking those brutal hits.

We aren't making that pay check either.

Football is a mans game and one played by choice. Nobody is forcing these people to go out and play.

Next thing you know headgear will be worn in MMA.

 

[silvrhand]

Project Management! Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.



I'm pretty sure Dread's point is the long term wussificaiton of the game. The rule changes going back almost 20 years now. When recievers still had to be men. What kind of ridiculous numbers would Lynn Swann have put up with the rules in place today versus the muggings that he and receivers of the 60's, 70's and early 80's endured?


*******************

Dunta's hit was more about lack of fundamentals than anything. You are supposed to see what you hit. Dip your butt, NOT your head..

20 years ago is a long time we didn't play 16 game seasons, players were not as big and fast as they are today. Sticking your head in the sand and saying hey it's a game your choice is a bit limited in my view..

But hey opinions are like assholes and we have them all, the rule totally depends on how they enforce it. The NFLPA doesn't allow them to fine them the amount of money to catch their attention so suspending them for a game gets the team after them, and docks them one of their paychecks..

When Rodney Harrison stood on national TV and told the world he set aside 50k a year for fines for big hits and didn't care till he got suspended, he pretty much told the NFL how to fix it.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Maybe baseball players should wear hockey goalie masks. Why not after Dickie Thon had his orbital bone shattered from a Torrez fastball?

 

[gtexan02]

Maybe baseball players should wear hockey goalie masks. Why not after Dickie Thon had his orbital bone shattered from a Torrez fastball?

Are you upset that catchers wear masks?

 

[Texan_Bill]

Are you upset that catchers wear masks?

Absolutely not. Am I upset that football players wear helmets? No. Do I care that hockey players wear helmets? No. Do I care that NASCAR drivers use the Hans device? Again, no!

 

[IDEXAN]

They need to take some time to analize and think thru the consequences of what thier action(s) are to be ? In other words, don't overreact in response to public opinion. These guys have been playing one way for years and years, even decades if you consider their time in scholastic and college ball.
If suspension is threatened, some players will begin to immediately play differently without any training or prep in the modified method, taking different angles and differenct speeds at contact which can in itself be conducive to injury.
This is something which should be handled in the offseason, but PR mode
has probably taken over full control by now.

 

[infantrycak]

They need to take some time to analize and think thru the consequences of what thier action(s) are to be ? In other words, don't overreact in response to public opinion. These guys have been playing one way for years and years, even decades if you consider their time in scholastic and college ball.
If suspension is threatened, some players will begin to immediately play differently without any training or prep in the modified method, taking different angles and differenct speeds at contact which can in itself be conducive to injury.
This is something which should be handled in the offseason, but PR mode
has probably taken over full control by now.

Frankly you are making the point for stiffer enforcement because the rule isn't changing. It has been on the books for years and players are ignoring it.

 

[Mr teX]

I don' think defensive guys go in to hit a guy trying injure them..just make their prescence felt & to intimidate a bit. In saying that, i think what those of us who are "overreacting" are saying is even if you hit someone fundamentally sound (wrap up, see what you hit etc..) there's still a chance that helmet to helmet hits & concussions will happen & you're not going to be able to eradicate that & concussions out of the game.

A defensive guy can to a certain degree control how he comes to hit a guy, but he cannot control what an offensive player does. If a WR turns or ducks down even a few inches 1 way or the other it can alter the angle & place a defensive guy is aiming to hit. So my thing is why should it only be on the defensive guy to worry about getting suspended b/c he inadvertently hit a guy in the wrong manner?

 

[HOU-TEX]

Project Management! Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.



I'm pretty sure Dread's point is the long term wussificaiton of the game. The rule changes going back almost 20 years now. When recievers still had to be men. What kind of ridiculous numbers would Lynn Swann have put up with the rules in place today versus the muggings that he and receivers of the 60's, 70's and early 80's endured?


*******************

Dunta's hit was more about lack of fundamentals than anything. You are supposed to see what you hit. Dip your butt, NOT your head..

While that may be true, the fundamentals of a good quality defensive tackle went out the window years ago. It's not really even taught anymore, much less used. It's unfortunate, but true

 

[Texan_Bill]

The first thing they should do is penalize a guy when his helmet comes off because he doesn't have it buttoned up properly. I am sick and tired of seeing helmets rolling around everywhere!

 

[gtexan02]

I don' think defensive guys go in to hit a guy trying injure them..just make their prescence felt & to intimidate a bit.

Interesting.

PITTSBURGH -- Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison states his objective matter-of-factly: He's out to hurt any opposing player who roams into his vicinity.

If he sees players down on the turf -- as he did Sunday when he sidelined Browns wide receivers Josh Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi with concussion-causing hits only minutes apart -- he knows he has done his job.

Now, he does go on to say he doesnt want to knock people out for long periods of time, but he counters that later with a ridiculous commment like this one:

The crown of Harrison's helmet slammed into the left side of Cribbs' helmet as the receiver was running a Wildcat formation play, causing Cribbs to crumple face-first into the turf. He appeared to be momentarily knocked out.
...
"I thought Cribbs was asleep," Harrison said. "A hit like that geeks you up, especially when you find out the guy is not really hurt, he's just sleeping. He's knocked out but he's going to be OK."

This tells me that NFL players dont understand how serious a concussion is. Sleeping? Really? Wow.

In saying that, i think what those of us who are "overreacting" are saying is even if you hit someone fundamentally sound (wrap up, see what you hit etc..) there's still a chance that helmet to helmet hits & concussions will happen & you're not going to be able to eradicate that & concussions out of the game.

A defensive guy can to a certain degree control how he comes to hit a guy, but he cannot control what an offensive player does. If a WR turns or ducks down even a few inches 1 way or the other it can alter the angle & place a defensive guy is aiming to hit. So my thing is why should it only be on the defensive guy to worry about getting suspended b/c he inadvertently hit a guy in the wrong manner?

That doesnt really matter. See below:

Because Cribbs was a runner, such helmet-to-helmet contact is permissible.

The illegal part comes when you hit a receiver who doesnt have a chance to prepare himself to absorb a helmet hit like that


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5699976

 

[IDEXAN]

Frankly you are making the point for stiffer enforcement because the rule isn't changing. It has been on the books for years and players are ignoring it.

So you're saying it's strictly an enforcement issue ?

 

[infantrycak]

So you're saying it's strictly an enforcement issue ?

I don't know what they are talking about with devastating hits but the helmet to helmet rule is going to remain the same. They are just contemplating exercising their discretion to eject and suspend instead of just fine.

 

[BIG TORO]

Are you not Entertained?!!

 

[Double Barrel]

Project Management! Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.



I'm pretty sure Dread's point is the long term wussificaiton of the game. The rule changes going back almost 20 years now. When recievers still had to be men. What kind of ridiculous numbers would Lynn Swann have put up with the rules in place today versus the muggings that he and receivers of the 60's, 70's and early 80's endured?


*******************

Dunta's hit was more about lack of fundamentals than anything. You are supposed to see what you hit. Dip your butt, NOT your head..

Chop blocks used to be a part of the sport when it was a so-called "man's game", too. Same with head slaps as Deacon Jones will constantly tell you. I'm sure that as a fan of the NFL for many years, you know of many techniques that have been outlawed in the past several decades. Do you honestly think we should bring those tactics back for your entertainment pleasure?

I guess by your logic Lynn Swann is a total wuss because he didn't play back in the day when they didn't wear helmets and were allowed to eye gouge and fish hook each other on tackles.

At what point do we admit we want a blood sport and not an athletic form of entertainment?

This all about player safety, fellas. Do you really want to see a bunch of scrubs playing in the playoffs of an 18 game season because some fans have some twisted desire that has to be satiated with season and even career ending injuries?

Like 'cak said, this is an existing rule that's getting a tougher enforcement. Guys will still get creamed up the middle, and QBs are still getting hit hard and losing time.

We aren't making that pay check either.

Football is a mans game and one played by choice. Nobody is forcing these people to go out and play.

Next thing you know headgear will be worn in MMA.

Pay has nothing to do with it. That's a free market capitalism topic, but has absolutely nothing to do with player safety during games. I guess if a guy gets paid enough then you expect blood, 'eh?

And give me a break comparing it to MMA. I've got ALL the old UFC tournaments on DVD, and that sport has evolved quicker and further than the NFL could ever dream of. Are you seriously trying to make that case? Because if so, you only show a lack of education about the history of MMA when you try to make such a point.

Some of the attitudes about player safety really amaze me, because it's obvious that being entertained is a much higher priority than player safety for some fans.

 

[gary]

I don't have an opinion on this because I don't know what should be done to please everyone.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Chop blocks used to be a part of the sport when it was a so-called "man's game", too. Same with head slaps as Deacon Jones will constantly tell you. I'm sure that as a fan of the NFL for many years, you know of many techniques that have been outlawed in the past several decades. Do you honestly think we should bring those tactics back for your entertainment pleasure?

I guess by your logic Lynn Swann is a total wuss because he didn't play back in the day when they didn't wear helmets and were allowed to eye gouge and fish hook each other on tackles.

At what point do we admit we want a blood sport and not an athletic form of entertainment?

This all about player safety, fellas. Do you really want to see a bunch of scrubs playing in the playoffs of an 18 game season because some fans have some twisted desire that has to be satiated with season and even career ending injuries?

Like 'cak said, this is an existing rule that's getting a tougher enforcement. Guys will still get creamed up the middle, and QBs are still getting hit hard and losing time.



Pay has nothing to do with it. That's a free market capitalism topic, but has absolutely nothing to do with player safety during games. I guess if a guy gets paid enough then you expect blood, 'eh?

And give me a break comparing it to MMA. I've got ALL the old UFC tournaments on DVD, and that sport has evolved quicker and further than the NFL could ever dream of. Are you seriously trying to make that case? Because if so, you only show a lack of education about the history of MMA when you try to make such a point.

Some of the attitudes about player safety really amaze me, because it's obvious that being entertained is a much higher priority than player safety for some fans.

First, please don't miss understand me. I am all for the helmet to helmet rule. I know for a fact there are high school kids suffering concussions out there. and I think that's another thread. Somehow this thread evolved into that and I don't necessariy think that was Dread's intent with the OP...

BTW, I'm all for protecting knees in the form of outlawing chop blocks. I wish they would call d-lineman for going after offensive players knees too *cough Jared Allen cough* However, where do you stop?. There used to be a time when receivers had to earn their living. That pass interference on the corner covering AJ was a bullshit call. Luckily AJ caught the pass and the Texans declined the penalty anyway, but that flag doesn't fly 20 years ago. Lester Hayes (who wore so much stickum, it looked like he jacked off an elephant) used to get away with felonious assault while in coverage. Jack Tatum was a bad man, the Darryl Stingley unfortunate accident not withstanding, he used to be tough as nails, but so were many of the receivers from that time period. Back them you had cornerbacks that actually wanted to hit people unlike many of the sissy corners in recent history (Deion Sanders comes to mind). Hell, many players today are prima donnas when compared to players 20 years ago.

Are all those penalties slanted to benefit the offense safety issues? No that's an NFL decision to increase the offensive player's production. Production = scoring (in theory). What about the discussion a few weeks ago, with regard to Manning getting away with murder at the line of scrimmage? Advantage offense.

That is the type of wussification of football that I am talking about. Again, I agree with the helmet to helmet rule. That's a good and necessary rule.

 

[Double Barrel]

I know what you're saying, TB, and I'll admit that I was a big fan of ESPN's "Jacked UP!" segment before they canned it. Those hits are part of football and I have only the desire to see them clean up the malicious hits.

With regards to the overall trend toward offense, that's today's NFL. It's not going to change and we just have to get used to it. The fact of the matter is just like homeruns in baseball put fannies in the seats (much to the chagrin of baseball purists), offenses scoring points are the same for football. And fannies in the seats = revenue, which is the primary focal point of this business called the NFL.

I don't know the true intention of DH's initial post to start this thread, as he uses players from many different eras to illustrate his point. Different techniques were used throughout the many different eras of the NFL, so who's to say what players from the past would do today when modern players are bigger, faster, and stronger than just a couple of decades ago. The post read to me as a diatribe that the vicious NFL past is what he yearns for, which is directly related to many of the bad health problems that those old dudes are suffering from today.

I find it disrespectful to players to tell them that they need to wear skirts because player safety has become a primary concern of the league. But, that's just my perspective and nothing personal against anyone that disagrees with my take.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Admittedly I loved "Jacked Up!" too. The difference there though is they were hard hits and clean (usually), not turning your body into a missile and using your helmet as the war head.

*sigh* I guess I'm dying breed because I can enjoy a 17-14 or 10-3 game as much as I can 38-35 shoot-out.

 

[Double Barrel]

Admittedly I loved "Jacked Up!" too. The difference there though is they were hard hits and clean (usually), not turning your body into a missile and using your helmet as the war head.

*sigh* I guess I'm dying breed because I can enjoy a 17-14 or 10-3 game as much as I can 38-35 shoot-out.

We are a dying breed, TB. I love a good, solid defense. Unfortunately, that's just not something we've seen in H-town for many, many years.

The dominating defenses of the past are most likely just that for a variety of reasons. Along with rule changes favoring offense, teams cannot be as deep with talent as the Steel Curtain or Doomsday Defense were back in the day.

 

[Mr teX]

Interesting.



Now, he does go on to say he doesnt want to knock people out for long periods of time, but he counters that later with a ridiculous commment like this one:



This tells me that NFL players dont understand how serious a concussion is. Sleeping? Really? Wow.



That doesnt really matter. See below:



The illegal part comes when you hit a receiver who doesnt have a chance to prepare himself to absorb a helmet hit like that


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5699976

It does matter b/c concussions & the prevention of them is ultimately what has brought this issue of helmet to helmet contact to the forefront. The league deeming it acceptable in 1 instance & illegal in another is what doesn't matter b/c ultimately the recieving player is still gonna get them.


Don't just try & make this about defensive guys. james harrison's comments are only him being truthful about the situation. Every player regardless of what side of the ball they are on get amped up when they make a bone crushing hit on another player. Example: when an offensive player gets the better of a defender through crack backs or crack back like hits they jump around & chest bump just as much as a defender does b/c the tables were turned. Hines Ward has routinely done this over the years to Db's & LBs (leading with his helmet as well) & then promptly stands over the defender with his "man-down" taunt. Of course when an offensive guy does it its always " he's just a football player!" A bad weekend of misplaced hits by a few defensive guys & there's outrage.

Its as much apart of the game as baseball players hitting baseballs back at pitchers at twice the speeds they are pitched at. Would you really suspend hitters b/c they have control over where they hit the ball?

 

[Dread-Head]

Project Management! Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.



I'm pretty sure Dread's point is the long term wussificaiton of the game. The rule changes going back almost 20 years now. When recievers still had to be men. What kind of ridiculous numbers would Lynn Swann have put up with the rules in place today versus the muggings that he and receivers of the 60's, 70's and early 80's endured?


*******************

Dunta's hit was more about lack of fundamentals than anything. You are supposed to see what you hit. Dip your butt, NOT your head..

As usual BILL gets me! Why can't tall Asian chicks with big racks "get me?"

 

[infantrycak]

I don't know what they are talking about with devastating hits but the helmet to helmet rule is going to remain the same. They are just contemplating exercising their discretion to eject and suspend instead of just fine.

To clarify, the league rep retracted his devastating comment (so no new rules for some ambiguous category of hits) and said the only thing they are contemplating is upping the enforcement on the currently existing rules.

Are all those penalties slanted to benefit the offense safety issues? No that's an NFL decision to increase the offensive player's production.

This doesn't really address your point but I found this offense v. defense perspective issue interesting. In discussing Harrison's hit on WR Masaquoi (sp?) defensive guy Bruschi felt like it was clearly a hit that should draw a suspension while offensive guy Tim Hasselbeck did not.

Update - fines but no suspensions - $50k Meriweather, $75k Harrison, $50k Robinson

I'm guessing they made a lot of fuss of suspensions but they'll come out next time so it doesn't seem unfair for no notice.

 

[Texan_Bill]

This doesn't really address your point but I found this offense v. defense perspective issue interesting. In discussing Harrison's hit on WR Masaquoi (sp?) defensive guy Bruschi felt like it was clearly a hit that should draw a suspension while offensive guy Tim Hasselbeck did not.

That is interesting. I've seen similar situations where the offensive and defensive guys have totally opposite opinion of what you may think they have.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Admittedly I loved "Jacked Up!" too. The difference there though is they were hard hits and clean (usually), not turning your body into a missile and using your helmet as the war head.

*sigh* I guess I'm dying breed because I can enjoy a 17-14 or 10-3 game as much as I can 38-35 shoot-out.

We are a dying breed, TB. I love a good, solid defense. Unfortunately, that's just not something we've seen in H-town for many, many years.

The dominating defenses of the past are most likely just that for a variety of reasons. Along with rule changes favoring offense, teams cannot be as deep with talent as the Steel Curtain or Doomsday Defense were back in the day.

Come on now, I'm right there with y'all. I'm as much of a defense kinda guy you can get. I agree though, the days of dominating defense's are slowly disappearing. The NFL's more about entertainment than it's ever been. High flying offenses = entertainment for the new school fanatics....I reckon

 

[Texan_Bill]

We are a dying breed, TB. I love a good, solid defense. Unfortunately, that's just not something we've seen in H-town for many, many years.

The dominating defenses of the past are most likely just that for a variety of reasons. Along with rule changes favoring offense, teams cannot be as deep with talent as the Steel Curtain or Doomsday Defense were back in the day.

Yup, old fashioned slobberknockers!

That's a good point with the way teams are structured today.

As usual BILL gets me! Why can't tall Asian chicks with big racks "get me?"

My answer for everything? Treasures!

 

[Dread-Head]

IWith regards to the overall trend toward offense, that's today's NFL. It's not going to change and we just have to get used to it.
I don't know the true intention of DH's initial post to start this thread, as he uses players from many different eras to illustrate his point. Different techniques were used throughout the many different eras of the NFL, so who's to say what players from the past would do today when modern players are bigger, faster, and stronger than just a couple of decades ago. The post read to me as a diatribe that the vicious NFL past is what he yearns for, which is directly related to many of the bad health problems that those old dudes are suffering from today.

I find it disrespectful to players to tell them that they need to wear skirts because player safety has become a primary concern of the league. But, that's just my perspective and nothing personal against anyone that disagrees with my take.

I thought my initial post was more of a "treastie" than a "diatribe" but I digress.

I think the league moving the umpire so that QBs could no longer use him as a shield to complete passes greatly helped defenses.

I don't want the "clothesline" or the "head slap" to return and don't advocate the whole sale butchery of offensive players. I am however saying that the suits who govern the game need to come to terms that the men playing this sport are conditioned athletes and that while it IS a buisness it's still a very rough sport.

The "Hoop skirt" thing was a take off on something Terry Bradshaw (former QB) said about roughing the passer penalties the league put in place a few years ago.

 

[gtexan02]

I think many of you have a very short memory when it comes to offense/defense. If you'll check out the statistics of points per game, I bet (and Im going off hunches here) that you'll find that the average number of points per game really hasn't changed all that much throughout the last few decades when all the rule impelementations and changes have been made.

The defenses of the 80s and before are well thought of, but there were great offenses back then too.

For example, the Rams averaged 34 points a game in 2000
The '83 Redskins did better than that
The '98 Vikes had 35 points a game
'84 Dolphins averaged 32
The 1950 Rams had 39 points a game
etc, etc

Sure these are the best of the best, but good teams were scoring in bunches then, and they are scoring in bunches now.

Its not like we were having 10-9 sludge matches week after week before the new rules came into play. Plenty of teams were lighting up scoreboards. Id love to see a chart of average points a game by year.

 

[infantrycak]

I am however saying that the suits who govern the game need to come to terms that the men playing this sport are conditioned athletes and that while it IS a buisness it's still a very rough sport.

I don't have a link for this but for perspective on wussification, some commentator said the league is on its highest recorded pace for concussions this year. That's with all the wussy rules.